Hey everyone I'm in a real pickle with work saying I might not be able to take my vacation next thursday and friday to go hog hunting in texas with my dad and uncle for the first time in my life. I told them about 2 months ago and they said it will be ok, 1 month ago and they said ok and yesterday morning I told them again and they said ok. I get back to the shop last night and the boss is still there and told me I might not be able to go now because something came up now. Everything as been lined up and paid for (ranch, Texas license, time getting gun sighted at range 35 yards, ect ). What I'm wanting to know does anyone here have any advice on what to do? Can they legally say I can't take MY vacation? I been with this roofing company for almost 8 years and they are going to do me dirty like this. They always fight you when anyone wants to take vacation.
- Thread starter MadRoofer_DMI
- Start date
Iowa is an "at will" state, your employer can change you work hours, location, days as they deem appropriate (within legal labor laws). I am not trying to be a lawyer here, just common knowledge as CO is also an "at will" state.
Here is the link to the Iowa DOL FAQ http://www.iowaworkforce.org/labor/wagefaqs.pdf
Now, given your situation, I would ask how big is the company. Privately owned subcontractor? Is there a corporate HR office? You can try to escalate the situation higher up the chain, but in the end you must be prepared to push back and stand your ground.
I dont know you or your work ethic, but if you have been working hard for the company, there should be no reason not to let you go. If its a matter of finishing up a project or the whole company goes under, then that is a consideration.
I spent lots of time in the military and the mission always came first. Understood, I raised my hand, so out of respect for my integrity, I did what was asked.
In civilian life, I displayed the same dedication to the company and missed many opportunities, birthdays, holidays etc. Over the years I have learned to push back as the company will just keep pushing and devouring the work/life balance in their favor.
In the end, you may be entitled to vacation days, but its at their discretion. Talk to the boss, and let him know whats going on, if you are set on going, then be prepared to walk. Its up to you.
Here is the link to the Iowa DOL FAQ http://www.iowaworkforce.org/labor/wagefaqs.pdf
Now, given your situation, I would ask how big is the company. Privately owned subcontractor? Is there a corporate HR office? You can try to escalate the situation higher up the chain, but in the end you must be prepared to push back and stand your ground.
I dont know you or your work ethic, but if you have been working hard for the company, there should be no reason not to let you go. If its a matter of finishing up a project or the whole company goes under, then that is a consideration.
I spent lots of time in the military and the mission always came first. Understood, I raised my hand, so out of respect for my integrity, I did what was asked.
In civilian life, I displayed the same dedication to the company and missed many opportunities, birthdays, holidays etc. Over the years I have learned to push back as the company will just keep pushing and devouring the work/life balance in their favor.
In the end, you may be entitled to vacation days, but its at their discretion. Talk to the boss, and let him know whats going on, if you are set on going, then be prepared to walk. Its up to you.
+1 Same lesson I learned
As I transitioned out the Army into the movie FX biz, my personal dedication of "mission first" definitely set me apart from my colleagues and I thought I was doing the honorable thing, but over time I came to realize every place I worked more or less just took it for granted. Someone was going to get screwed in the end and it was almost always me because I was the only one willing to fall on my sword for the sake of the project and team. Eventually I came to realize that as long as there was always someone volunteering to be executed, no one would else would step up nor really care. Forging a better relationship that's fair and mutual between you, your staff and employer is extremely valuable. I'm not saying always be the weasel, but don't always be the first to fall on your sword. And if you do, make sure that it benefits you in some way equal to how much it benefits the team or your employer.
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The company has about 90 people working for it. Most are in production part the rest are in the office, shop, and patch and repair. I am in patch and repair. Their are 6 of us in that part of the company. We work in 2 man teams. The guy I work with and me is the only pair that are both Americans and legal to be in this country. The job is at Microsoft here in town which took about 5 hours to get clearance to get through the the doors. 3 weeks ago we went to go do a job with the iron workers and the prints for the job and the iron wasn't even close to being right. They made new prints and iron (I guess) and my boss said we are suppose to start on Wednesday but who knows. They is an HR lady I could talk to but she will be no help because everyone in the office is all buddy buddy with each other. If you know this company you would understand. I know Iowa is an at will state but to me it doesn't explain the vacation part or I just don't understand what I'm looking at. I googled and googled but get no clear explanation. I'm very frustrated with work. We waited on them to do the work they should be able to wait a few more days to start it. It's only at most a 3 day job. Rant finished for now.
That's what I am going to talk to my boss tomorrow and see what he says. Thanks
Tell your boss that you want a raze when you get back from Hog hunting.
The best scenario would be to find a solution that would be acceptable to you and your employer. I know this can be very difficult depending on the flexibility and corporate culture sometimes.
When you said that you and your partner are the only pair that has two English speaking members together that implies there may be some other teams that only have one other English speaking member. Maybe since this is a special occasion they could get a member from one of your other teams since Microsoft is probably a huge deal to the company you're working for.
You may have already tried this but just throwing it out there.
When you said that you and your partner are the only pair that has two English speaking members together that implies there may be some other teams that only have one other English speaking member. Maybe since this is a special occasion they could get a member from one of your other teams since Microsoft is probably a huge deal to the company you're working for.
You may have already tried this but just throwing it out there.
Do you have the vacation request approved in writing?
You have the clearance and can perform the work, if the job schedule changed, it can change again. Any boss worth his/her salt would ask Microsoft to push the job a few more days, as you are not available.
Its one thing if you were going to a truck pull with your buddies, but hunting with your dad and uncle, I would put my foot down.
Its one thing if you were going to a truck pull with your buddies, but hunting with your dad and uncle, I would put my foot down.
Sounds like your boss wants you to pick up the slack and cover his ass because he is a criminal and hired illegal workers. Fuck Him, let him fire the illegals and Hire Americans or legal immigrants. If he gives you any shit turn him in.
Good luck but that's why a lot of company's will hire veterans cause they know they are dependable and do what has too be done too get the job done
There is no such thing at my place of work only your word.
This has crossed my mind also. ICE has showed but before and only office people were there. The guy they were looking for was fired at the job site and our monthly safety meeting was canceled that monday. They came friday afternoon.
Normally I'm the guy that does anything to get the job done, but I'd tell your employer to fuck off.
The bold part says A LOT about your employer. The fact that they are willing to hire illegals, is a big red flag that they don't give 2 shits about integrity and I'd venture to guess you're fighting a losing battle. Do what you need to get by and look for a reputable company to work for in the mean time.
I'd also have a REALLY hard time not dropping a dime on them.
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No offense but you don't have to be a vet to be a reliable worker. Just need to have the correct work ethic. I've gone to work after 2 days when the doctor said take 5 weeks off. While I've never been mil, my mindset has always been, the mission comes first. Learned that from my brother, he was in the National Guard.
Look they do not own you. You are employed at will. Tell them when you are leaving and when you can be back if they want you. If you need to get a different job it will probably all work out better for you in the end. I would still drop dime either way.
A lot of businesses have policies & procedures that they expect employees to follow. If your company also has these, refer back to them & see if they have any set policies of vacation/sick leave. If so, follow up with HR about the failure to follow the policy....
Just to put it into perspective, my dad died in 2007. I'd give a hell of a lot to be able to hunt with him again.
There are memories I will carry with me for the rest of my life, most didn't happen on a civilian job.
I just quit a job for the first time in over 25 years over life balance. Working insane hours, being on call 24/7, taking a laptop and cell phone with you on vacation, etc. may be fine for the next guy. I just wanted my life back with a better balance in the exchange relationship.
I have worked as hard as one can imagine for 6.5 years at a private for profit Collage. I built a multi-million dollar program there that has attracted student from all over the globe. One of the last things my new boss said to me there was to blame me for taking my two weeks paid vacation during the summer, all because I missed a certain faculty meeting. If you don't want that kind of grief then best to be self employed. Either that or end up at a place that has a corporate culture that allows for family and self time. That being a rare scenario.
Rights? Rights? You have no vacation rights! Vacation is a privilege! Do work son! One day you will earn vacation, probably after all the old men say you have it coming. Until then, there is unemployment which grants certain freedom of movement, or there is work, which by all reasonable views, you do at the discretion of your boss who pays you for your sweat and muscle or brains, then tells you when you can take a long extended break.
Really though, if something came up, that's part of holding a steady job. Be thankful you have one in this economy
Really though, if something came up, that's part of holding a steady job. Be thankful you have one in this economy
I am a small business owner and if one of my employees asks off for a certain period in advance, it is my responsibility to fill that shift if I agree to their request, big job or small job, doesn't matter. Remind him again that you asked off multiple times and he agreed it was not a problem. If he wants to force your hand and threaten that you will not have a job when you return, you have a bit of leverage also with his hiring of illegals, and maybe remind him of that. I usually don't resort to being a jerk like that, but he is the business owner and ultimately takes all the responsibility and it he has to go out and work the job while you are away, he should (I know I would and have done so many times). I have worked many late nights, weekends, etc. because it needed to be done and it was my business and my reputation was on the line. That is just part of being a small business owner.
Ask to talk to him again, and have a expense breakdown for the trip ready to hand to him to show him how much you have spent and how much you stand to lose, and ask him for reimbursement. I had a company cancel a NYE event on me a week before because they did not have their permits together, even though they said they did in the first week in December, and I still paid the people I had contracted even though I did not receive payment for the cancelled job. Comes down to what type of man your boss is, and you are probably going to find out or you may already know. If you end up missing your trip, start taking a sick day every week or two to look for a new job.
good luck.
ps... I haven't had a real vacation (over 3 days) in the last 8 years. Living the dream of small business ownership.
Ask to talk to him again, and have a expense breakdown for the trip ready to hand to him to show him how much you have spent and how much you stand to lose, and ask him for reimbursement. I had a company cancel a NYE event on me a week before because they did not have their permits together, even though they said they did in the first week in December, and I still paid the people I had contracted even though I did not receive payment for the cancelled job. Comes down to what type of man your boss is, and you are probably going to find out or you may already know. If you end up missing your trip, start taking a sick day every week or two to look for a new job.
good luck.
ps... I haven't had a real vacation (over 3 days) in the last 8 years. Living the dream of small business ownership.
2guard - this is excellent and a model all companies aspire to. I agree, since they provided you approval several times and you were a responsible employee by communicating with them early - it is their responsibility to cover your shift, but sadly, not all companies operate with 2guard's level of decency.
I would ask them if they have someone who can cover the shift for you as you incurred significant expense and asking you to cancel at the last minute forces you have them reimburse you for lost vacation expenses. Provide them receipts and a total and ask again if they have someone who can cover the shift.
I too was a small business owner and I myself would come in and cover a shift if someone couldn't make it - sick, bereavement, etc.
Be respectful, responsible, factual, and professional and ask to have someone cover your shift. Document who provided approvals and dates. You don't have to have an email - just a notebook where you document the conversation, attendees, and date. This approach will pay you dividends whether you stay at this roofing company or not.
My current boss is bugging me to take vacation because we constantly have to change at the last minute due to our customers and I end up not taking much each year. Its nice when you work for a company and they know how hard you work and help you find time to take off.
You asked for this vacation, you earned it, and you deserve it. Spend time with family. There is plenty of time to work. Don't miss out on spending times with loved one. Noone ever goes to the grave wishing they had worked harder or not taking vacation!
A man only has ONE THING in this world; his WORD! If that ain't the case....the man ain't worth a schitt!!
One thing that I have learned from my years of working is documentation, documentation, documentation. Just speaking and having things confirmed in person/vocalized doesn't guarantee anything. Always get it in writing.
My current boss is horrible with vacation. Even when using the paper vacation slip, he still screws it up. I've resorted to emailing him my days off with both myself and his boss cc'd on it.
My current boss is horrible with vacation. Even when using the paper vacation slip, he still screws it up. I've resorted to emailing him my days off with both myself and his boss cc'd on it.
That's why we all need to save money when we have steady jobs. The cushion of having enough "fuck you" money saved up can be very liberating.
I used to have this crazy-assed dedication to my job.
Figured that the job gave me a paycheque (I'm Canadian..hence the spelling ) to enjoy all the things I loved.
Then when the economy went south a few years ago I noticed that they did some things to some employees that were really tacky...luckily not me.
But it taught me one thing...most companies (not all, but most) will treat their employees 'fairly' by the letter of the law.
But if push comes to shove and things get financially tight...no matter how good of an employee you've been, most company owners, given the choice of getting rid of their new Mercedes or an employee will still have the car in the garage at the end of the day.
I now give my company my 'all' during my nine paid hours a day...after that it's my life.
If I was in the OP's pickle I'd definitely threaten to walk and be prepared to back it up...if he's a good employee the company would be a fool to let him go...and if he does, the OP is probably better off elsewhere IMO.
Figured that the job gave me a paycheque (I'm Canadian..hence the spelling
) to enjoy all the things I loved.Then when the economy went south a few years ago I noticed that they did some things to some employees that were really tacky...luckily not me.
But it taught me one thing...most companies (not all, but most) will treat their employees 'fairly' by the letter of the law.
But if push comes to shove and things get financially tight...no matter how good of an employee you've been, most company owners, given the choice of getting rid of their new Mercedes or an employee will still have the car in the garage at the end of the day.
I now give my company my 'all' during my nine paid hours a day...after that it's my life.
If I was in the OP's pickle I'd definitely threaten to walk and be prepared to back it up...if he's a good employee the company would be a fool to let him go...and if he does, the OP is probably better off elsewhere IMO.
I could quote something from every post here. There are a couple of things you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself with 100% honesty. But first my life lessons to you.
I am a mechanic by trade have been for 26 years, when I first started back in 1988 I did every shit job that was asked of me. I worked 12+ hours a day (still do), I took all the training offered (at my expense) when no one else would and then would come back to work and share anything I had learned with everyone. I was a "company man". I would stay late and help stranded people from out of town that pulled in just as the shop was suppose to close (I worked until 10:30 on my 21st birthday, party was over when I got home). I felt I was building something called a career.
Years later I start to notice that I am the "go to guy" which I like for awhile. But then a few years later I notice that no one else steps up, most the shop is riding on my coat tails and while I am giving 110% some are only giving 60%. The shop manager is asking me to do more all the time. Along with a couple others. Of 16 mechanics in the shop 58% of the work was done by 3 of us.
I never asked my manager why he never asked the "non-producers" to step it up, but I am sure I figured it out on my own. He wanted someone he could count on to get the job done, so why ask someone that more than likely won't when you can ask someone who more than likely will. And here is the conclusion, the life lesson I have learned,:
Those that "DO" will ALWAYS be asked to do "MORE" while those that "DO NOT" will NEVER be asked to do "ANYTHING".
Look at taxes, they never talk about taxing the approx 50% of people that pay NOTHING they always talk about raising taxes on the people that already pay the most.
In the first 12 years I worked there I never missed a day, If you didn't take your vacation during the year at the end of the year they would pay you for it, mechanics work on a commision type plan so if don't take time off you are producing making the shop money. In the 24 years I worked there I cashed in 19 times.
A couple years ago the shop manager was retiring and I was almost sure I would get promoted as I had been "top dog" for at least 15 years. To my amazement and to others the owner brought in a manger from somewhere else. I went and had a talk with the owner and asked WTF. He claimed I was to valuable as a "producer". I asked him if he realized if I was the manager I could train, hire or fire until we had a shop full of producers. That over the years I had figured out exactly what "makes" a good mechanic and who has drive and who does not. That instead of hiring anyone I could weed out the losers with a good interview. Basicly if I was given the power to do so I could mold 9-10 guys in to me.
You could see the gears working in his head, like oh fuck I didn't think of it that way. He was worried about me not making him money when I think I could have made him so much more. I went home pissed, checked my bank account yep fuck you money. Went in the next day and quit, went out on my own.
So the question you need to ask is, what kind of employee are you. A 110% er or a 60% er (be honest, I know some 60%ers that think they are 150%ers). If you are a 60%er then sorry to say you are their bitch. But if you are truly a 110%er you are in control of the situation and don't know it. If you don't have "Fuck you" money then you need to make that a priority.
I am a mechanic by trade have been for 26 years, when I first started back in 1988 I did every shit job that was asked of me. I worked 12+ hours a day (still do), I took all the training offered (at my expense) when no one else would and then would come back to work and share anything I had learned with everyone. I was a "company man". I would stay late and help stranded people from out of town that pulled in just as the shop was suppose to close (I worked until 10:30 on my 21st birthday, party was over when I got home). I felt I was building something called a career.
Years later I start to notice that I am the "go to guy" which I like for awhile. But then a few years later I notice that no one else steps up, most the shop is riding on my coat tails and while I am giving 110% some are only giving 60%. The shop manager is asking me to do more all the time. Along with a couple others. Of 16 mechanics in the shop 58% of the work was done by 3 of us.
I never asked my manager why he never asked the "non-producers" to step it up, but I am sure I figured it out on my own. He wanted someone he could count on to get the job done, so why ask someone that more than likely won't when you can ask someone who more than likely will. And here is the conclusion, the life lesson I have learned,:
Those that "DO" will ALWAYS be asked to do "MORE" while those that "DO NOT" will NEVER be asked to do "ANYTHING".
Look at taxes, they never talk about taxing the approx 50% of people that pay NOTHING they always talk about raising taxes on the people that already pay the most.
In the first 12 years I worked there I never missed a day, If you didn't take your vacation during the year at the end of the year they would pay you for it, mechanics work on a commision type plan so if don't take time off you are producing making the shop money. In the 24 years I worked there I cashed in 19 times.
A couple years ago the shop manager was retiring and I was almost sure I would get promoted as I had been "top dog" for at least 15 years. To my amazement and to others the owner brought in a manger from somewhere else. I went and had a talk with the owner and asked WTF. He claimed I was to valuable as a "producer". I asked him if he realized if I was the manager I could train, hire or fire until we had a shop full of producers. That over the years I had figured out exactly what "makes" a good mechanic and who has drive and who does not. That instead of hiring anyone I could weed out the losers with a good interview. Basicly if I was given the power to do so I could mold 9-10 guys in to me.
You could see the gears working in his head, like oh fuck I didn't think of it that way. He was worried about me not making him money when I think I could have made him so much more. I went home pissed, checked my bank account yep fuck you money. Went in the next day and quit, went out on my own.
So the question you need to ask is, what kind of employee are you. A 110% er or a 60% er (be honest, I know some 60%ers that think they are 150%ers). If you are a 60%er then sorry to say you are their bitch. But if you are truly a 110%er you are in control of the situation and don't know it. If you don't have "Fuck you" money then you need to make that a priority.
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It's a perplexing situation.
The one thing that sticks out to me is when if at all can you plan anything?
If you can always be preempted at any time that would be problematic.
One thing that could be dealt with is the expenses due to the loss.
If this is agreed to then all you need to do is be able to put up with the disappointment of cancellation.
Imagine if you were scheduled to get married and you have to say "sorry, honey I have to work.".
The one thing that sticks out to me is when if at all can you plan anything?
If you can always be preempted at any time that would be problematic.
One thing that could be dealt with is the expenses due to the loss.
If this is agreed to then all you need to do is be able to put up with the disappointment of cancellation.
Imagine if you were scheduled to get married and you have to say "sorry, honey I have to work.".
My philosophy, two words: fuck em!
If you're that important, the job can wait two days. Sure working for Uncle Sam you don't get to set the priorities... But as a civilian enjoy that freedom that is rightfully yours.
I remember while attending one of those classes on how to be a civilian again, the best advice I've ever heard was: never stop looking for a better job. Maybe it's time to change it up?
If you're that important, the job can wait two days. Sure working for Uncle Sam you don't get to set the priorities... But as a civilian enjoy that freedom that is rightfully yours.
I remember while attending one of those classes on how to be a civilian again, the best advice I've ever heard was: never stop looking for a better job. Maybe it's time to change it up?
Well, how did it go? Did you shoot some pigs or go to work?
You missed work due to eating a taco one of the migrant workers gave you the day before your hunt and had the screaming shits for the last week ! Go to the Doc and get an excuse ! That don't work then you never meant shit to them anyways.....
There are several problems here; one, the company does not have enough people that can handle your position. two, The company needs to take care of their customer's needs first, unfortunately for you, meaning your needs take a 2nd. seat. Three, how bad do you need this job, and how tired are you of getting put off on these matters? Are you willing to alienate your boss over this? As he does have the legal right to fire you for not working when he needs you. Will the project be in jeopardy if you go on vacation? Tough decisions, but you got to know the consequences should you challenge your management.
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I have been on both sides of this deal. Now I'm the boss and make the calls for vacation. If I have given my word to an employee once on the timing of their vacation it stands. The reason they are trying this shit is your boss didn't do his job. Now he is expecting you to suck it up for him. I'm guessing you don't do something that only two guys on this earth can do.
A friend of mine has this shit happen to him every year we go elk hunting. He follows their protocall and a week to two before he is set to leave the shit starts. He has been a butcher for 30+ years and been with this company for half that. The best part about this deal is he puts in for his vacation time when he returns from this years trip.
Good luck with your decision, I think it is more than shitty they have put you into this position.
R
A friend of mine has this shit happen to him every year we go elk hunting. He follows their protocall and a week to two before he is set to leave the shit starts. He has been a butcher for 30+ years and been with this company for half that. The best part about this deal is he puts in for his vacation time when he returns from this years trip.
Good luck with your decision, I think it is more than shitty they have put you into this position.
R
That's what I call "whipping the mule that pulls the hardest" and I find myself in the same situation with my job. I've come to the conclusion that when I am at work, I AM their slave and have to do what the company wants me to do, how they want me to do it and say yes sir with a smile. The trade off is that when I'm not at work, they aren't going to get even a second of my time. When I want to be off, I'm going to be off, period. Having that "fuck you" money is nice, but having a real backup plan is priceless. Due to the specific nature of my job and national contracts, seniority and all that goes along with it, I can't just say "F-U" to my employer and go work for the competition doing what I do now and there's not really anything in another field that is on par with what I do. So, having an unrelated side business for me is better than the FU money that I have in the bank. My goal is to build my side business over the next 3-5 years to the point that it replaces my job, working for myself is my exit strategy.
To the OP, I hope you made the decision to go on the hunt, those are the reasons we work all year long for, to be able to enjoy time with our families. Without that release from work every now and then, we are nothing but slaves.
There is a true, but unfair management tool that bosses use in their passing out the tasks to their employees. I have been told this by more than one boss. It is; " when they have an important task that really needs doing they will give it to the busiest person they have because they know that person will find time to get it done, and on time and with no errors." Unfair? YES! true? YES! But why would a boss give an important job to a slacker that will procrastinate doing it and end up with numerous errors when someone more competent is available? Sad, but true!
Just to let everyone know here I got to go on my trip starting today. Funny thing is my boss didn't tell me that Microsoft set a date to start the project next week. I had a Mexican come and tell me Saturday (yes I work Saturdays even after working 50 hours in 5 days) that both him and I get thursday and friday off. I told him i don't know about you but I am taking those days off. So one other guys says Yea you both get those days off , Dave (my boss) talked with Microsoft on Wednesday and told him the date they will be ready. Now why didn't Dave come tell me this instead of me hearing second hand and being pissed off for days.
Because Dave is a Dick
Enjoy your trip. SOunds like you've earned it.
