Maggie’s World War II Info

CamW

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 2, 2004
242
73
San Gabriel,CA
I got this in a email,intersting stuff!



You might enjoy this from Col. D. G. Swinford, USMC, Ret and history buff.


You would really have to dig deep to get this kind of ringside seat to history:

1.The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940); highest ranking American killed was Lt Gen Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. So much for allies.

2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. His benefits were later restored by act of Congress.


3. At the time of Pearl Harbor , the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced 'sink us'), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train was named ' Amerika.' All three were soon changed for PR purposes.!

4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions, your chance of being killed was 71%.

5. Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese Ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane.

6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. Tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down.

7. When allied armies reached the Rhine , the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act).

8. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City , but they decided it wasn't worth the effort.

9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.

10. Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were captured by the US Army.

AND I SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST....


11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 United States and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands . 21 troops were killed in the assault on the island. It could have been worse if there had been any Japanese on the island.
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 10, 2001
9,131
5,614
AZ
Re: World War II Info

I'm thinking you maybe could have picked a better day to share this with us...
 

Brain

Jr. Asst. Brass Catcher
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 20, 2007
434
1
Re: World War II Info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CamW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You would really have to dig deep to get this kind of ringside seat to history:
</div></div>

But evidently not too deep for a bunch of half-truth or plainly false information.



 

Brain

Jr. Asst. Brass Catcher
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 20, 2007
434
1
Re: World War II Info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ramrod14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything he typed is true and documented. </div></div>

Some are, some aren't. While there may be some basis in fact to all or some of these, believing anything without fact finding is possibly the greatest problem with the intardweb and those who use it blindly.

Nice find on #10, CamW.
 

Brain

Jr. Asst. Brass Catcher
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 20, 2007
434
1
Re: World War II Info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GM2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">swastika true

http://www.45thdivisionmuseum.com/History/SwastikaToThunderbird.html </div></div>

Yes, but it was changed prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. #3 in the email says that it was in use at the time of the attack and changed soon after for PR reasons.

Good on ya for digging into this stuff. Wish more folks took the time to question what they read or are told instead of swallowing it as the truth...especially the tinfoil hat crowd.
 

45.308

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2007
1,431
180
Glacier Valley Alaska
Re: World War II Info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CamW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
AND I SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST....


11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 United States and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands . 21 troops were killed in the assault on the island. It could have been worse if there had been any Japanese on the island.
</div></div>

I rewrite #11 that US air power from the Army Air Corp with support help from the Canadians bombed the Japs into submission and retreat from Kiska...........

On the 6th of June, 1942 at 22:27 hrs, the Japanese No. 3 Special Landing Party and 500 Marines went ashore at Kiska. The Japanese captured a small American Naval Weather Detachment consisting of ten men, including a Lieutenant along with their dog. One member of the detachment escaped for 50 days. Starving, thin, and extremely cold he finally surrendered to the Japanese.

In early April a spell of stormy weather with winds up to 108 m.p.h. grounded all planes for five days. Sixteen B-24, five B-25, and twelve P-38 sorties were ultimately flown against Kiska Island from Adak and Amchitka Islands. Antiaircraft fire damaged two bombers. During the month of April, the 73rd bombardment Squadron (Medium), 28th Composite Group with B-25s transferred from Elmendorf field, Anchorage, Alaska to Umnak Island.

On the 12th of April, 1943, 3 B-25's, 24 P-40's, and 13 P-38's flew 7 missions to Kiska. The fighters also strafe Little Kiska. AA fire damaged 1 P-40 and 1 P-38. The P-38 force-lands safely.

On the 13th of April, 1943, 15 B-24's 15 B-25's, 28 P-38's and 20 P-40's flew 11 attacks to Kiska; 43 tons of bombs were dropped. Fighters attacked the Main Camp causing large fires, and also strafed aircraft on the beach. Heavy AA fire damaged 2 P-38's, 1 of which later crashed into the sea, and 1 B-25.

The 14th of April, 1943 saw 30 P-40's 17 P-38's, 9 B-24's and 6 B-25's fly 10 missions to Kiska, bombing and strafing the runway, North Head area, installations, parked seaplanes, and facilities on Little Kiska.

The 16th of April, 1943 saw Kiska bombed and strafed 13 more times. A total of 13 B-24's, 12 B-25's, 32 P-40's, 29 P-38's, and 2 F-5A's cover targets which include installations in the Holtz Bay area and gun positions on North Head.

April 17th saw 7 B-24's bomb and score 8 direct hits on the runway and gun emplacements at Attu. One B-24 and 2 F-5A's abort due to weather. Four B-25's, 31 P-38's, and 14 P-40's hit Kiska 9 times, bombing installations and strafing gun emplacements and 3 parked airplanes.

On Sunday, April 18th, 1943 22 P-38's (some flown by Royal Canadian Air Force pilots) and 37 P-40's hit Kiska 9 times. The submarine base and gun emplacements on North Head were bombed and gun emplacements near the submarine base were silenced.

On Monday, April 19th, 1943 9 missions involving 14 B-24's, 12 B-25's, 32 P-40's, and 23 P-38's were flown to Kiska. The first mission was weathered out of the primary target, Attu, and directed to Kiska. Bombing and strafing concentrated on 4 ships and the submarine base area where fires were started. One ship, believed to serve as a power station, was set on fire.

The 20th of April 1943 included 10 bombing and strafing missions by 15 B-24's, 16 B-25's, 10 P-38's, and 32 P-40's. They hit shipping in the harbor at Kiska and gun positions in North Head. Other targets included buildings in the Main Camp area and the runway.

By the 21st of April Kiska had been attacked 83 times.

The 24th of April 1943 saw 2 P-38's bomb Kiska and strafe personnel near Mutton Cove. Weather canceled other missions.
By May 30th, 1943, unknown to the allied forces at the time, all organized Japanese Army resistance ended in the Aleutians.

On August 15th, 1943 the allied invasion of Kiska finally began. There was no opposition to the invasion of Kiska by the US and Canadian forces as there were no Japanese troops left on the island. The Japanese had been secretly removed from Kiska by I-class submarines and surface vessels prior to the allied attack. Allied casualties during the invasion nevertheless numbered close to 200, all from friendly fire, booby traps set out by the Japanese to inflict damage on the invading allied forces, or disease. There were seventeen Americans and four Canadians killed from either friendly fire or booby traps, fifty more were wounded as a result of friendly fire or booby traps, and an additional 130 men came down with trench foot.

The Japanese were finally ejected from the Aleutians only after 15 months of arduous operations hampered by shortages afloat, ashore, and in the air...not to mention the almost insuperable obstacles of weather and terrain.


Anyone spent time on the chain? I have. The battles here have no comparison to any and all other battles.
 

Victory

Pagan Raider
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 14, 2005
1,269
347
Making bad guys nervous
Re: World War II Info

Im in the 45th, and have an old patch with the swastika on it.

Read the book "Wartime" by Paul Fussell. It is full of WW2 info you never read in other books.
 

ramrod14

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 26, 2008
137
1
51
Republic of Texas
Re: World War II Info

Brian, I do not wear tinfoil hats nor do I play follow the leader. I have yet to see you post anything that proves your point of view.

1. The first German serviceman killed in WW2 was a german counsler who was trying to save Chinese children from the Japs. The first US. Serviceman killed in Finland 1940- the WW2 Memorial database. Lt. General Lesley McNair-McNair, who had already received a Purple Heart for being wounded in the North African Campaign, was killed in his foxhole July 25, 1944 near St. Lo during Operation Cobra, by an errant aerial bomb dropped during a pre-attack bombardment by heavy strategic bombers of the Eighth Air Force.- ^ The Biographical Dictionary of World War II Generals and Flag Officers: The U.S. Armed Forces, R. Manning Ancell and Christine Miller, Greenwood Press, Westport CT, 1996.
2. Calvin Graham,USN-^ Ronald Reagan (November 10, 1988). "Statement on Signing a Bill for the Relief of Calvin L. Graham". http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=35150. Retrieved on 2006-07-26. H.R. 610, "An Act Graham is a veteran of Navy and Marine for the relief of Calvin L. Graham, " assigned Private Law No. 100-44.
3. CINCUS-The United States Fleet was an organization in the United States Navy from 1922 until after World War II. Initially the abbreviation CINCUS, pronounced as "sink us", was used for Commander-in-Chief, United States Fleet, officially replaced by COMINCH in December 1941.- Buell, Thomas. Master of Sea Power: A Biography of Fleet Admiral Ernest J. King. Boston: Little Brown & Co. 1980. ISBN 0316114693. The 45 division patch has already been answered! Hitler’s Train-Adolf Hitler's private train was pulled by two locomotives and including two armoured railroad cars. The train was originally named 'Amerika' and after the United States entered the war the name was changed to 'Brandenburg' and was last used by Hitler on January 15, 1945,- ^ http://gothere.com/mg-world/Museums/imperial.htm
4. The Army Air Corps had a grand total of 115,382 deaths-http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/Casualties/Casualties-Intro.html- The Marine Corps had only total of 24,511 deaths-^ Ellis, John. World War II - A statistical survey Facts on File 1993. ISBN 0-8160-2971-7.
5. Hiroyoshi Nishizawa- Over Calapan on Mindoro Island, the Ki-49 transport was attacked by two F6F Hellcats of VF-14 squadron from the USS Wasp (CV-18) and was shot down in flames. Nishizawa died as a helpless passenger, probably the victim of Lt. j.g. Harold P. Newell, who was credited with a "Helen" northeast of Mindoro that morning. Warrant Officer Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, Japan’s leading ace, had been killed at the age of 24. - "Samurai!" by Saburo Sakai, Fred Saito and Martin Caidin
6. This one is just common sense, which some people lack!
7. The peeing in the Rhine- Churchhill- just do a search this that topic, it was very publized. General Patton- go the the 2cd Armor division Museum in Fort Hood and there is a picture of General Patton peeing in the Rhine.
8. The Amerika Bomber project was an initiative of the Reichsluftfahrtministerium, the Nazi Germany Air Ministry, to obtain a long-range bomber aircraft for the Luftwaffe that would be capable of striking the continental United States from Germany, a range of about 5,800 km (c.3,600 mi.). The project failed to come to fruition, not because the transatlantic bomber was an unfeasible project, but because the Nazis were unable to manufacture enough parts to produce the aircraft. Duffy, James P. Target America: Hitler's Plan to Attack the United States. The Lyons Press, 2006. ISBN 978-1-59228-934-9
9. I was wrong about this one, stand corrected Many reliable sources incorrectly list U-120 as sinking due to a malfunctioning toilet. This submarine was actually the much larger U-1206.
10. Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several Koreans. This one has already been proven, but I will add my on source-Forgotten Legions, Antonio J. Munoz., Axis Europa Books-The regiments were: Ostmuselmanische SS, and Ostturkischen Waffen, Verband der SS. There was Crimean Tatars, Volga Tatars, Turks from Turkistan, Albanian, Azerbaijani, Armenian, Indian, Muslims,. Waffen SS The encyclopedia,. Marc J. Rikmenspoel.
11. This one was also proven fact by someone else.

If you are still in denial then all I can say is you’re a lost cause. Now next time don’t insinuate that I wear tinfoil hats or that I will believe anything. My passion is Military History so either put up or shut up. And I mean this in the nicest way.
 

Brain

Jr. Asst. Brass Catcher
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 20, 2007
434
1
Re: World War II Info

Tinfoil hat comment wasn't directed at you, Ramrod14. My apologies, as you evidently took it that way. It was a general comment about the lack of fact-finding by folks who believe anything that is published online and evolve it into widespread disinformation and misinformation until it eventually becomes embedded "truth". Judging from your inclusion of sources along with information, I would guess that you would agree with my critical view.

Each point in the OP is written in a way, much like many chain emails, to present facts as either entertainment or sensationalism, no different than most media outlet's twisting of the truth into what sells. Yes, there may be truth behind the story, but not as it may be presented.

As I had said earlier in response to your first comment in this thread, some are true, some aren't.

Some are half-truths.
45thID patch being changed after Dec. 1941 for PR reasons.
CINCUS being changed for PR purposes (instead of reorganization into separate fleets distinguishing CINCPAC from CINCH as a two-front naval war was imminent).
Amerika Bomber "not worth the effort" vs. program failures and lack of logistical support. Hitler's regime engaged in more projects whose cost far outweighed the benefit...and a strategic, long-range bomber was "not worth the effort"?

Not a lost cause, far from it.
 

45.308

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2007
1,431
180
Glacier Valley Alaska
Re: World War II Info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CamW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
AND I SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST....


11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 United States and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands . 21 troops were killed in the assault on the island. <span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="color: #FF0000">It could have been worse if there had been any Japanese on the island.</span></span>
</div></div></div></div>

I do not verify and condone what was stated in the original email post but took a twisted fact of history written is a way that made the US Military look like a bunch of clowns like there never were any Japs on Kiska and nothing but FF killed our guys and tried to get the actual facts.

Kiska was invaded by Japs. The Jap had troops positioned on Kiska. We bombed them into retreat. We invaded only to find out the bombing worked. The islands are littered with underground bunkers and tunnels, been there, seen them. Combat Ops in the Aleutian Islands was extremely difficult with the heavy fog, throw a rock and cannot see it hit the ground. To include rain and wind. Japs left booby traps that killed and confused, add in the weather. I know the US accomplished an outstanding ops.

This was a half truth written in a way to discredit the US Military.

 

ramrod14

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 26, 2008
137
1
51
Republic of Texas
Re: World War II Info

The troops that invade were extremely green troops. I believe it was the 7th ID. They were originally slotted for the European Theatre of operations, but instead sent straight to the Aluetion Islands without proper cold weather gear or cold weather training. The other island that was cleared did have Japs on it and it was bloody. What the Marine Col. was trying to say, was that there would have been even more casualties.
 

45.308

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2007
1,431
180
Glacier Valley Alaska
Re: World War II Info

Yep, they were green but like most WWII going to any AO were green too. Aleutians were more of an amphibious Marine beach assault than standard Army assault campaign. Unlike what the Marines encounter in the Pacific, the beaches along the chain are very rocky jetting out into the water for long distances with deep pools of water. Hard to get boats and ships close to shore line. Cannot just walk through deep water over your head. I have walked on the rocks and fished the deep pools, got to be there to know.

Yep, they were told North Africa but ended up on the chain.

It is not that they were not given or had cold weather gear, most did not take it with them into battle. The Army had to learn as they went about logistics for amphibious assault. The terrain and weather caused most of their problems but they over came. Unless you have spent time there, it rarely gets much below 32 or above 50 all year. It is very foggy, very rainy and to say its windy, you have to experience to understand what wind is.

Attu was a very brutal battle but the US kicked proctologist job and prevailed; training, no training, gear, no gear, it does not matter. It is fact that the US had very high percentage more casualties from weather and terrain than from battle with the Japs. The Japs lost their troops in actual combat. Very few Japs survived the assault from the US. And yes, many contend the US lost the Aleutian Campaign. Not because we got defeated but it was a waste of resources for meaningless battles when it was a diversionary tactic from Midway. We removed and killed Japs from all the Islands along the chain, we won.

If the Colonel spend time there, good state that fact. If he was saying it could have been worse with Japs entrenched into bunkers, holes, and tunnels on Kiska like encountered in the Pacific, should have stated that way.