WTF is going on with my Redding die today

[TheGerman]

Took a bag of once fired, Hornady 6.5CM brass and set my Redding FL bushing die up to bump the shoulder .001-.002 like I've done a million times before. Got it to where it needed to be, locked the ring and started sizing.

After a few rounds I noticed the amount of pressure I had to put on the ram seemed more than usual so I took the die apart to inspect and nothing. Took it apart, cleaned it out and re-set it to bump .001-.002 again.

Same thing with the amount of force needed. Triple checked that I had the right brass/bushing/die, etc. Then I grabbed my shoulder guage and noticed that the shoulders were all over the place. Some were .001-.002, some were .005-.006.

What causes this? Nothing is moving.

This drove me nuts last night so I stopped and fell asleep pondering this. The only 2 things I can think of are:

- Even though its all once fired Hornady brass, I think the brass is from 2 or 3 different brass lots. Would this matter?

- I'm always afraid of over lubing, but once I started to put what I would consider an excessive amount of Imperial Wax on the cases today, they went in much smoother and it didn't feel like I was trying to force a square block through the round hole. I don't ever recall having this problem before and I've loaded 6.5CM quite a bit.

 

[Sweetyzfd]

I’ve had it happen before. Now I try to be extra careful to lube everything evenly. Seems to have done the trick so far. Can’t think of much other than possibly a different shellholder?

 

[spife7980]

The amount of force on the ram, both inserting and extracting the piece of brass or one way only?

In either case it sounds like more lube is what you need, have you tried a spray lube? I like that as I can easily stand all the cases on end and spritz a bit in the necks before dumping them over and spraying the bodies and shaking to even the coverage. Don’t need a q tip.

 

[whatsupdoc]

If this brass was fired from different rifles there will be varying amounts of pressure required to resize the cases due to the particular chamber.
This will also cause different shoulder datum dimensions. The type and amount of lube will also cause shoulder datum variations but not usually .005 or so.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Try a dry lube on the inside of the necks.

 

[FLIGHT762]

It's all about the lube. Using the correct amount. Using not enough will cause the shoulder bumps to be all over the place. Extremely cleaned brass can cause more ram pressure when resizing. What you thought was excessive lube turned out to be the right amount.

 

[TheGerman]

Never had a lube problem before lol

I'm using Imperial wax and the graphite 'dip' for inside the necks but didnt this time because there's no expander button in the die so all the sizing is coming from outside. Guess I am way too used to 5.56 brass as thats what I've been loading a lot of lately and it reacts really badly to a lot of lube.

 

[FLIGHT762]

You know when you're using too much lube when you start to get dents in your case shoulders.

 

[TheGerman]

You know when you're using too much lube when you start to get dents in your case shoulders.

Yeah thats the issue with the 5.56 as it takes VERY little to end up with dents.

I just didnt remember this being a problem with the 6.5/308/300 ever before which is why I cleaned the die and then drive myself crazy trying to figure out WTF was going on.

 

[TheGerman]

So then 2 questions:

I am guessing this isn't likely from different batches of the same brass and more from lube; does anyone here even bother to sort by headstamp batch? As in, you buy 5 boxes of 100 virgin pieces from the same headstamp. Do you keep them all separate, or toss them together and not care and simply keep track of how many firings are on them?

Secondly, is the shoulder bump variance here going to do anything with accuracy, or is it simply to allow the case to chamber? Trying to figure if I should 'batch' the shoulder bump sizes now, since they are all over the place (.005 spread at times) or does it not even matter?

 

[JeffLebowski]

You know when you're using too much lube when you start to get dents in your case shoulders.

I’m going with this. I’d hose out the die with non chlorinated brake cleaner.

 

[bullcityrising77]

I had what I thought was an issue with my Redding FL Sizing Bushing die last week and called them up...took no time and got the guidance I needed to clear up the user error.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I had what I thought was an issue with my Redding FL Sizing Bushing die last week and called them up...took no time and got the guidance I needed to clear up the user error.

Tune in next week to the conclusion to the mystery?

 

[bullcityrising77]

Totally unrelated problem. Just pointing out that they’re easy to get ahold of.

 

[padom]

You aren't going to have issues if your shoulder bump is all over the place as long as they all chamber. I'm assuming this brass wasnt fired in your gun? Get them sized so they all chamber and then go fire them in your gun. This will form all the brass to your chamber and your next sizing session will be more consistent.

This is one reason I dont buy used brass except LC 5.56. You never know what chamber the brass was fired in.

 

[kthomas]

So then 2 questions:

I am guessing this isn't likely from different batches of the same brass and more from lube; does anyone here even bother to sort by headstamp batch? As in, you buy 5 boxes of 100 virgin pieces from the same headstamp. Do you keep them all separate, or toss them together and not care and simply keep track of how many firings are on them?

Secondly, is the shoulder bump variance here going to do anything with accuracy, or is it simply to allow the case to chamber? Trying to figure if I should 'batch' the shoulder bump sizes now, since they are all over the place (.005 spread at times) or does it not even matter?

Shoulder bump variance will fuck with your ES/SD's, as your volume and thus pressure will be varied. At long distances this can hurt you.

 

[BigBlastin300win]

So should I bump my shoulders on brand new brass 0.001-0.002? Got some lapua brass for the 6.5cm first time loading a buddy told me this would be a good idea to not over work brass

 

[Dave62677]

U just need to open up the neck with expander mandrel. U might get excessive uneven neck tension on brand new case.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Shoulder bump variance will fuck with your ES/SD's, as your volume and thus pressure will be varied. At long distances this can hurt you.

I'm gonna say that's a bit of a stretch.

The .003 to .005 variance is minimal in the grand scheme of thins when it comes to case volume in a 6.5 Creedmoor case.

A couple kernals of powder could displace that and that will still keep me in my node.

 

[iceng]

Old thread. Issue with bump ? Check your shell holder.

Don't resize new virgin brass.

 

[rady]

No expert, and maybe this has been already stated, but what about trying a different brand of brass to see how it works. I've noticed on 300 WM and now 338LM that different brands seem to size to their own characteristics. I've also seen that the Hornady brass is not the best when compared to Peterson, Black Hills, Lapua.

Having recently started to reloaded 6.5 Creedmore, 308 Win, 300 WM, 338 LM for the MRAD folder, I've noticed that the different manufacturer brass's will size with different levels of difficulty. Usually due to my not lubing brass enough. I've never had the shoulders be more the a .001's off though. Shoulders with the Wilson case gauge show good consistency. I'm not real wild about the Hornady comparator for shoulder measurements, though they do seem to be rather consistent.

One thing I do with the Redding dies, is to remove the stem, place the bushing, then add the stem locking nut. Once they are in place, I will lock those components down with the locking screw then back off a small amount to allow the bushing to float a small amount. I do this to prevent the stem from possibly hitting the base of the brass.

Just taking a stab at the problem. Hope you get it worked out.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

I literally was just going to start a thread asking about this. Last night i began sizing 1X fired
Peterson 6.5CM into 6CM using a brand new Forster FL die. Brass was cleaned, annealed, lubed well, sized. I measured 10 cases twice to get an average of 1.533" base to shoulder (in my comparator). After setting up the die, I was getting many at my 1.531" goal but also some at 1.5285", 1.5295", 1.530". It was weird because i seemed to have to back the die off every several rounds to keep it in range. I noticed the very end of the neck was belled too. Was the case neck hitting the end of the die and pushing theshoulder back from there? I did not trim before sizing. Sorry if I'm hijacking a thread, but my questions was extremely similar.

 

[rady]

I literally was just going to start a thread asking about this. Last night i began sizing 1X fired
Peterson 6.5CM into 6CM using a brand new Forster FL die. Brass was cleaned, annealed, lubed well, sized. I measured 10 cases twice to get an average of 1.533" base to shoulder (in my comparator). After setting up the die, I was getting many at my 1.531" goal but also some at 1.5285", 1.5295", 1.530". It was weird because i seemed to have to back the die off every several rounds to keep it in range. I noticed the very end of the neck was belled too. Was the case neck hitting the end of the die and pushing theshoulder back from there? I did not trim before sizing. Sorry if I'm hijacking a thread, but my questions was extremely similar.

Doubtful that the case neck was hitting the end of the die. The Wilson case gages have a .006" step range from high to low ( they state .005", but my measurements show .006". Anything in between is good to go. From what you are stating, it looks like you don't have a problem. My understanding of headspacing is that you are looking for proper chambering/extraction, and to extend the life of the brass by avoiding over stretching.

As I was sizing various brands of 338 LM brass yesterday, Black Hills brass definitely sized harder than Peterson. The BH's is extremely accurate, as well as expensive. Randomly checking, BH ammo showed cbto variance of only .001". Perterson was .001 - .003" variance.

As stated earlier, I'm not a big fan of the Hornady comparator for cbto. My go to is the Wilson case gage and how well the reloaded round chambers and extracts. The gage will also tell you if you need to trim. Comparator won't.

Not sure what you mean by "belled" but does your die use a bushing? With the Redding S type dies, there is always a small amount of the neck, near the shoulder, that is not sized and giving the impression of a doughnut.

I'm self taught in all of this, so I would welcome any further insights from others.

 

[iceng]

I literally was just going to start a thread asking about this. Last night i began sizing 1X fired
Peterson 6.5CM into 6CM using a brand new Forster FL die. Brass was cleaned, annealed, lubed well, sized. I measured 10 cases twice to get an average of 1.533" base to shoulder (in my comparator). After setting up the die, I was getting many at my 1.531" goal but also some at 1.5285", 1.5295", 1.530". It was weird because i seemed to have to back the die off every several rounds to keep it in range. I noticed the very end of the neck was belled too. Was the case neck hitting the end of the die and pushing theshoulder back from there? I did not trim before sizing. Sorry if I'm hijacking a thread, but my questions was extremely similar.

Necking down to a new chamber will require fire forming. Even if brass is "walking" during sizing, it will settle down after fireform and anneal.

Necking down does weird shit I've noticed. Try turning 308palma lapua brass into 6cm or 243win into 6x47lap, does weirdness, but it will settle after fired in a new chamber.

You will need to trim once it's fired.