WTF

[Witch_Doctor]

Ok, here it is. It have a Remy 700 5R /308 with 340 rounds down tube. It was shooting like a champ. I started some load development last weekend and noticed the fouling shot was about 4" low, afterward the shots were where expected and consistancy was good.

loads were as follows:
1X fired federal brass
39.6gr of IMR 49895
CCI magnum rifle primers
Sierra 165 BTHP

1X fired federal brass
41.1gr of IMR 4895
CCI magnum rifle primers
Sierra 165gr BTHP

I went out yesterday, and the same reloads took 4 fouling shots this time starting at abot 6 inches low. I scratched my head, hummm. After that, no problems, well after about 80 rounds yesterday, I decided to clean the barrel, and fire another fouling shot to see what would happen. Same thing, 4 shots, progressively coming up in elevation from about 6" inches low. Well that really bothered me, and got me wondering if it were the reloads, I am new to this, the fustration is probably compounded. Lastly I picked up 2 boxes of FGMM 168's and the same damn thing happened. It is like the barrel needs to heat up.

With all that being said, I checked the scope and base, all snug and torqued to spec, the barrel is not touching the stock, and there is no play. WTF! My cleaning regiment is pretty basic, I clean after range outings, I patch with Shooter's Choice, ten strokes with a brush, and patch (Usually take two).

I have read a great deal, as to the whole clean or not, I am going to experiment by leaving the bore alone, but the whole fouling thing has me scratching my noggin.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: WTF

My 5R was giving me a fit too, but not that bad. Mine was stringing at will vertically and horizontally after about 800 or so rounds. It was crazy. Finally I got sick of "trying to make it work" and sent it back to Rem. A week later I got a brand new barreled action back. +1 to Rem. for making it work.

Now, your problem may be as simple as having it bedded. If there is stress in the bedding/action then it may perform good once it does heat up. In my case a bedding job did not help and my rifle too would only shoot once it was hot.

Rem. diagnosed the problem as "rifling rough/miscut/damaged."

ETA: You may need to pull the copper out of it. Shooter's is a good cleaner but not really a copper cleaner. Get some KG12 and use patches and a nylon brush if needed. How did you break it in? is there visible copper in it after using the Shooter's?

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: WTF

Thats what I don't get, it has been working great up intil last weekend, the foul shot was about 4" low with no real variance in windage; but this weekend instead of one shot it was 4. Don't think its me, I could see if it was the first shot, and I jerk the trigger or sum dumb shit, but the first 4. Thing is, I was able to shoot 0.50 groups today once the barrel heated up.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: WTF

Once again, sounds very similar to my old one. It used to piss my off beyond belief.
Read Ruststud's post in this link:
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59093


This made me think and pushed me to send it off to Rem.

How long have you had yours? Purchase date? I got mine 07/2008. Perhaps ours are of the same batch.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: WTF

I bought mine in May 2009. I have read that thread before. I just ordered a Hornady OAL gauge, so when it gets here I will play with it. Right now everything I have reloaded has been at 2.800. I don't know that the throat would affect the fouling shot or shots to this matter, I am no expert, but it would seem that if the throat was too long it would be consistant with all my shots. As I said, after the fouling shot (shots this weekend) I can get groups in the 0.33 too 0.65 range regularly.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: WTF

with a name like WITCH DOCTOR......


maybe someone put a spell on you....or you will you be able to gin up some voodoo ?


BTW you did not say what the ambient air temperature was when this happened.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: WTF

90 degrees, high hummidity, slight breeze, sea level.

 

[JJones75]

Re: WTF

Why are you cleaning it so much?? Does its accuracy fall off after so many rounds that it calls for being cleaned?

I went through a school and the instructor crawled my ass for cleaning my gun every hundred rounds or so , he asked if the accuracy had fallen off I said no that he told me not to clean it agin till the accuracy started to suffer , its got over 3000 rounds and been cleaned maybe 5 times , shoots great and I don't have to worry about shooting "fouling" shots before I get to buisness or after a range session.

Bed it , check the throat length and your setup.

worst case set the barrel back .100 and rechamber.

 

[wco24u]

Re: WTF

Lot of guys I hunt with use the 5r guns and had great results. The bullet seating could also play a role. If its to far off the rifling if could cause some fliers. I seat mine touching the rifling as do the guys I hunt with. Powder load seems a bit low.
We are using the same powder, primers, same bullet weight. Try this. 46 grains of powder, seat the bullet touching the rifling.

 

[dreever]

Re: WTF

I'm no expert, far from it, but it sounds to me the problem lies in having a squeaky clean barrel. In factory barrels a lot of guys think they need to be totally copper free, so they scrub and scrub till they have them squeaky clean. Then when they go back to the range they find it will take up to half a dozen shots before the barrel settles down. This sounds to me like it could be your problem. One thing you could try is after cleaning run a patch of Lock Eze which is a collidal graphite suspension thru the barrel and just let it go. The suspension will evaporate leaving a light coating of graphite in the barrel which will mimic a fouled bore. It's available in squirt bottle form from your local NAPA store. I use it all the time, and my clean bore shots are real close to being right on the money. I usually fire one or two foulers and I'm good to go. It's worth a try and will only cost you a couple of bucks.

Danny

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: WTF

The squeaky clean barrel I guess goes back to my training, hell I thought I was being lazy by cleaning after a day of shooting instead of every 40 rounds. I broke the rifle in with standard fashion; one shot and clean for 10, five shots and clean for the next 25 rounds. After that I just cleaned it after a day at the range, which usually consists of 40 to 80 rounds. This weekend was a bit difference because I was trying to repeat a cold bore shot. As I said earlier, I am going to experiment and not clean the bore until I see accuracy fall off. From what it sounds like, I shouldn't have any issues with the first shot if I do this. I can't believe I have permantly done anything to it other than knock out the carbon and copper. The round count is still very low, so I suspect alot of barrel life, even more after everything I have read after a few searches.

 

[dropd57]

Re: WTF

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dreever</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm no expert, far from it, but it sounds to me the problem lies in having a squeaky clean barrel. In factory barrels a lot of guys think they need to be totally copper free, so they scrub and scrub till they have them squeaky clean. Then when they go back to the range they find it will take up to half a dozen shots before the barrel settles down. This sounds to me like it could be your problem. One thing you could try is after cleaning run a patch of Lock Eze which is a collidal graphite suspension thru the barrel and just let it go. The suspension will evaporate leaving a light coating of graphite in the barrel which will mimic a fouled bore. It's available in squirt bottle form from your local NAPA store. I use it all the time, and my clean bore shots are real close to being right on the money. I usually fire one or two foulers and I'm good to go. It's worth a try and will only cost you a couple of bucks.

Danny </div></div>

No disrespect, but I have heard,that not all 5R barrels are created equal. That being the case, a little fouling might smooth out the barrel, offering a little more consistency. Try just shooting and ocassionaly running a patch with Kroil oil down the barrel, just pushing the loose fouling out. A little copper and carbon fouling might help smooth things out. However, if the barrel is moving as it get's hot, that's a different story; I would not put any graphite in my barrel.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: WTF

I am just going to go the dirty bore route and see what happens. I went back to my data, and it has been consitantly 4 inches low for the first round out of a clean barrel. My biggest concern is that yesterday and today it took 4 shots to foul, where in the past it took 1. I figure the dirty bore is probably the best action at this point, since it shoots great after that. No need to go compounding problems that may not exist.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: WTF

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">with a name like WITCH DOCTOR......


maybe someone put a spell on you....or you will you be able to gin up some voodoo ?


BTW you did not say what the ambient air temperature was when this happened. </div></div>

Whats in a name anyway

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[Hummer]

Re: WTF

Chris, don't remember if I told you about this when we were on phone but you need to get:

http://www.precisionshooting.com/book_ads/book_ads_complete_guide_rifle_barrel_fitting_frame.html

This will explain one hell of a lot of problems that surface in Remington actions.
Hummer