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Re: Wylde chamber
It's Bill Wylde's notion of what will get the job done, essentially a 5.56 chamber with a shorter throat than a standard 5.56 NATO chamber. If you're a HP competitor and hand-load, O.K.; but, for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems. But, shooters new to it all, think this " match chamber" will assure greater accuracy, likely only from hand loads of the sort used in MR and LR Service Rifle competitions using a match conditioned 20 inch barreled Service Rifle.
It's Bill Wylde's notion of what will get the job done, essentially a 5.56 chamber with a shorter throat than a standard 5.56 NATO chamber. If you're a HP competitor and hand-load, O.K.; but, for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems. But, shooters new to it all, think this " match chamber" will assure greater accuracy, likely only from hand loads of the sort used in MR and LR Service Rifle competitions using a match conditioned 20 inch barreled Service Rifle.
Re: Wylde chamber
Actually, it's a compromise between a standard NATO chamber and a tight match chamber. From the horses mouth...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Posted By: Bill Wylde
Date: Thursday, 13 November 2003, at 8:46 a.m.
In Response To: Re: .223 Wylde
The case dimensions of the Wylde reamer are that of one of the NATO prints. Not a thing tight about it. As I recall, there were two NATO prints in use. I don't recall the print number used, but do have it in old records somewhere.
Throating was about the only change. The decision was made to make the freebore diameter .2240" as a good bullet seal. That done, excess freebore made little difference to accuracy. One of the reasons the magazine length 69's shot so well in the chamber. It so happened that the 80 grain Sierra seated to the lands was about ideal at .2470" OAL. Simple luck.....All of it.
The initial reamer(designed in 1984)was mainly geared toward Canadian 5.56 ball, as I was experimenting with their issue ball for competitive purposes. This operation was slow in getting off the ground, and really didn't start happening until about 1990. The use of 5.56 NATO ball in Canada was a short lived affair. Handloads were allowed in about 1994.
Just prior to this time the AR's were gaining great strength in the U.S. The military finally got involved. The rest is history.
You might ask how the the 62 grain 5.56 ball worked for Canadian LR prone shooting to 1,000 yds? It was supersonic in barrels of 28", and longer. It also was very competitive with the 147 grain 7.62 ball in use there at the time. The wind drift differential at long range (7.62/5.56) was about 15% in favor of the 7.62.
Those days were very interesting.</div></div>
Actually, it's a compromise between a standard NATO chamber and a tight match chamber. From the horses mouth...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Posted By: Bill Wylde
Date: Thursday, 13 November 2003, at 8:46 a.m.
In Response To: Re: .223 Wylde
The case dimensions of the Wylde reamer are that of one of the NATO prints. Not a thing tight about it. As I recall, there were two NATO prints in use. I don't recall the print number used, but do have it in old records somewhere.
Throating was about the only change. The decision was made to make the freebore diameter .2240" as a good bullet seal. That done, excess freebore made little difference to accuracy. One of the reasons the magazine length 69's shot so well in the chamber. It so happened that the 80 grain Sierra seated to the lands was about ideal at .2470" OAL. Simple luck.....All of it.
The initial reamer(designed in 1984)was mainly geared toward Canadian 5.56 ball, as I was experimenting with their issue ball for competitive purposes. This operation was slow in getting off the ground, and really didn't start happening until about 1990. The use of 5.56 NATO ball in Canada was a short lived affair. Handloads were allowed in about 1994.
Just prior to this time the AR's were gaining great strength in the U.S. The military finally got involved. The rest is history.
You might ask how the the 62 grain 5.56 ball worked for Canadian LR prone shooting to 1,000 yds? It was supersonic in barrels of 28", and longer. It also was very competitive with the 147 grain 7.62 ball in use there at the time. The wind drift differential at long range (7.62/5.56) was about 15% in favor of the 7.62.
Those days were very interesting.</div></div>
Re: Wylde chamber
My earlier abbreviation summed it up accurately. Today, if you're looking for "match" get a CLE chambered .223 barrel. My last CLE chambered barrel from Douglas 1/7 blank is just simply awesome. It has revealed both my marksmanship strengths and weakness.
My earlier abbreviation summed it up accurately. Today, if you're looking for "match" get a CLE chambered .223 barrel. My last CLE chambered barrel from Douglas 1/7 blank is just simply awesome. It has revealed both my marksmanship strengths and weakness.
Re: Wylde chamber
Lots & lots & lots of match competitors use Wylde chambers to great effect. It's extremely reliable in ARs because it matches the NATO chamber dimensions and extremely accurate. All my CLE uppers have Wylde chambers and work wonderfully.
Lots & lots & lots of match competitors use Wylde chambers to great effect. It's extremely reliable in ARs because it matches the NATO chamber dimensions and extremely accurate. All my CLE uppers have Wylde chambers and work wonderfully.
Re: Wylde chamber
Good info in this thread, I must admit that I didn't know the differences from one chamber to another. What I do know is that of the four .223 Wylde chamber's I've had, every one has been a long range hammer. With 75 Amax's they have all pounded steel at 1k and beyond.
Good info in this thread, I must admit that I didn't know the differences from one chamber to another. What I do know is that of the four .223 Wylde chamber's I've had, every one has been a long range hammer. With 75 Amax's they have all pounded steel at 1k and beyond.
Re: Wylde chamber
I have a wylde on 2 of my AR's and i have had no problems at all. I have shot every thing from 75 gr match ammo to ss109's and standard 5.56 ball ammo. Saturday morning I shot several groups the largest was a .58" 10 shot group with standard 55gr .223 ammo. That barrel is a 20" Walther 1:8
I have a wylde on 2 of my AR's and i have had no problems at all. I have shot every thing from 75 gr match ammo to ss109's and standard 5.56 ball ammo. Saturday morning I shot several groups the largest was a .58" 10 shot group with standard 55gr .223 ammo. That barrel is a 20" Walther 1:8
Re: Wylde chamber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems.</div></div>There's nothing wrong with a Wylde chamber for a so-called 'tactical' AR: it doesn't cause damage to the rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems.</div></div>There's nothing wrong with a Wylde chamber for a so-called 'tactical' AR: it doesn't cause damage to the rifle.
Re: Wylde chamber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's Bill Wylde's notion of what will get the job done, essentially a 5.56 chamber with a shorter throat than a standard 5.56 NATO chamber. If you're a HP competitor and hand-load, O.K.; but, for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems. But, shooters new to it all, think this " match chamber" will assure greater accuracy, likely only from hand loads of the sort used in MR and LR Service Rifle competitions using a match conditioned 20 inch barreled Service Rifle. </div></div>
Interesting. Could this be the reason I get blown primers when using Federal XM193 in a WOA upper?
Same ammo in a Noveske N4 worked fine...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's Bill Wylde's notion of what will get the job done, essentially a 5.56 chamber with a shorter throat than a standard 5.56 NATO chamber. If you're a HP competitor and hand-load, O.K.; but, for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems. But, shooters new to it all, think this " match chamber" will assure greater accuracy, likely only from hand loads of the sort used in MR and LR Service Rifle competitions using a match conditioned 20 inch barreled Service Rifle. </div></div>
Interesting. Could this be the reason I get blown primers when using Federal XM193 in a WOA upper?
Same ammo in a Noveske N4 worked fine...
Re: Wylde chamber
I have at least 4 ar uppers that have Wylde chmabers. All of them are accurate with what ever I shoot through them.
I have at least 4 ar uppers that have Wylde chmabers. All of them are accurate with what ever I shoot through them.
Re: Wylde chamber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems.</div></div>There's nothing wrong with a Wylde chamber for a so-called 'tactical' AR: it doesn't cause damage to the rifle.</div></div>
You have not observed a problem, I have, as well as others who shoot 5 to 6000 rounds or more annually in HP competition/practice. Some folks on the Kentucky State Rifle Team at one point shot M193 for 200 yard practice. Not commercial ammo, the real thing. Team members with Wylde chambers had issues with ejectors/extractors, and other bolt/carrier maladies. And, typically, this ammunition was about a 100 ft per second faster than the same ammo out of a NATO chamber. Shoot something like 500 rounds a week for a few weeks and you'll see the wear. For a hand-loader, no problem, or for someone shootin factory .223, no problem.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for a "tactical" AR, the chamber is ridiculous. Velocities/pressure using standard 5.56 in this chamber will be high, high enough to damage the rifle, and .223 velocities from this chamber will be lower than standard, enough to cause cycling problems.</div></div>There's nothing wrong with a Wylde chamber for a so-called 'tactical' AR: it doesn't cause damage to the rifle.</div></div>
You have not observed a problem, I have, as well as others who shoot 5 to 6000 rounds or more annually in HP competition/practice. Some folks on the Kentucky State Rifle Team at one point shot M193 for 200 yard practice. Not commercial ammo, the real thing. Team members with Wylde chambers had issues with ejectors/extractors, and other bolt/carrier maladies. And, typically, this ammunition was about a 100 ft per second faster than the same ammo out of a NATO chamber. Shoot something like 500 rounds a week for a few weeks and you'll see the wear. For a hand-loader, no problem, or for someone shootin factory .223, no problem.
Re: Wylde chamber
I shoot very hot loads in my Wylde chamber (2820fps from 77gr SMK, 20") and closing in on 3000 round fired without a single issue.
ETA
And the accuracy has averaged sub MOA for the life of the barrel.
I shoot very hot loads in my Wylde chamber (2820fps from 77gr SMK, 20") and closing in on 3000 round fired without a single issue.
ETA
And the accuracy has averaged sub MOA for the life of the barrel.
Re: Wylde chamber
Not trying to hijack this thread. I think this is relevant.
Just ordered a WOP upper chambered in 5.56 with Wylde chamber. Kreiger 1 in 7 barrel.
I will be handloading for it.
Any special considerations?
I've shot a lot of .308. This is my first .223.
Not trying to hijack this thread. I think this is relevant.
Just ordered a WOP upper chambered in 5.56 with Wylde chamber. Kreiger 1 in 7 barrel.
I will be handloading for it.
Any special considerations?
I've shot a lot of .308. This is my first .223.
Re: Wylde chamber
From what I understand it is okay to shoot 5.56 in a Wylde chamber but you should watch out for over pressure situations as it 'may' happen depending on load/ammo.
Nothing to say about damage... Although from what I understand this is not something to worry about.
I do shoot 5.56 in my Wylde chamber often with no issues.
I also chose the Wylde as I built a precision AR not tactical.
From what I understand it is okay to shoot 5.56 in a Wylde chamber but you should watch out for over pressure situations as it 'may' happen depending on load/ammo.
Nothing to say about damage... Although from what I understand this is not something to worry about.
I do shoot 5.56 in my Wylde chamber often with no issues.
I also chose the Wylde as I built a precision AR not tactical.
Re: Wylde chamber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My earlier abbreviation summed it up accurately. Today, if you're looking for "match" get a CLE chambered .223 barrel. </div></div>
I would skip the CLE "match" chamber and stick with the Wylde. Last CLE a friend took delivery of he had all sorts of issues with getting it to function. It was clearly undersized, even though the headspace was technically correct. I went in and reamed it with a Wylde reamer and life became good with that rifle again.
I have another rifle in hand with someone's great idea of a "match" chamber that I need to ream with a 95 Palma reamer later today. It will not take brass resized with a Forster sizer. The chamber is friction tight on new Lapua brass, which is about 002" under SAAMI minimum dimension at the base.
Bill Wylde is a smart experienced man and made is reamer print for good reasons.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My earlier abbreviation summed it up accurately. Today, if you're looking for "match" get a CLE chambered .223 barrel. </div></div>
I would skip the CLE "match" chamber and stick with the Wylde. Last CLE a friend took delivery of he had all sorts of issues with getting it to function. It was clearly undersized, even though the headspace was technically correct. I went in and reamed it with a Wylde reamer and life became good with that rifle again.
I have another rifle in hand with someone's great idea of a "match" chamber that I need to ream with a 95 Palma reamer later today. It will not take brass resized with a Forster sizer. The chamber is friction tight on new Lapua brass, which is about 002" under SAAMI minimum dimension at the base.
Bill Wylde is a smart experienced man and made is reamer print for good reasons.
