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Your Advice Regarding Optics for a 5.56

Centuriator

Centuriator

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Esteemed Sniper Hide shooters,

I have decided to make my Daniel Defense M4V7 my "go to" long distance rifle, and before I hear that such a decision is an excercise in futility, please permit me to indicate I'm well aware of the limitations of both the platform and the caliber....

Having said that...

If you were to recommend an optic for me, what would it be. I prefer a magnification that permits me very clearly to see and get rounds on man-size center mass out to 600 yards, though I recognize 300-400 is more doable.

I have a Geiselle trigger system I'm installing and now am looking for an optic that will permit me to get "up close and personal" well beyond 200/300 yards.


I' frankly bewildered by the choices.

Your advice?
 
Amsdorf said:
Esteemed Sniper Hide shooters,

I have decided to make my Daniel Defense M4V7 my "go to" long distance rifle, and before I hear that such a decision is an excercise in futility, please permit me to indicate I'm well aware of the limitations of both the platform and the caliber....

Having said that...

If you were to recommend an optic for me, what would it be. I prefer a magnification that permits me very clearly to see and get rounds on man-size center mass out to 600 yards, though I recognize 300-400 is more doable.

I have a Geiselle trigger system I'm installing and now am looking for an optic that will permit me to get "up close and personal" well beyond 200/300 yards.


I' frankly bewildered by the choices.

Your advice?
Click to expand...

Putting a scope on it isn't going to make it a long distance rifle. To meet your "up close and personal" requirement you are going to need a 1 x something scope or an auxiliary offset sight for the up close part. If you can shoot and your gun groups well you can ring 10" plates all day with a 1x4 or 6 at 400yds. If like a lot of ARs your service rifle barrel might shoot groups more like 1.5-2" MOA. A 10x scope isn't going to make it shoot better. You might want to, at least in the back of you mind, plan on a barrel swap.
 
GH41 said:
Putting a scope on it isn't going to make it a long distance rifle. To meet your "up close and personal" requirement you are going to need a 1 x something scope or an auxiliary offset sight for the up close part. If you can shoot and your gun groups well you can ring 10" plates all day with a 1x4 or 6 at 400yds. If like a lot of ARs your service rifle barrel might shoot groups more like 1.5-2" MOA. A 10x scope isn't going to make it shoot better. You might want to, at least in the back of you mind, plan on a barrel swap.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I was unclear.

I prefer an optic that allows me to see, very clearly, the target at 200, 300, 400 yards.

I do understand and appreciate your remark that a scope won't make my rifle more accurate, but I think it may make me able to make adequate hits on target at distance better than a 1x optic.

I had a precision rifle with a 24x scope, but frankly, I had no interest in lugging that beast around.

I'm limiting myself to 5.56 and seeking advice on optics that will allow me to get great magnification out to 400-600 yards.

I'm not trying to put rounds in a tiny group, but would like an optic that allows me to see clearly where those rounds are going in a 6" group out to those distances. As Dirty Harry put it so well, "A man's got to know his limitations." I know mine and am simply looking for an optic that allows me to deal with those limitations.
 
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I have two Leupold Mark AR's 3-9's with mil-dot. I like them and have hit steel and one dog out to 500 yards. They are nothing fancy but work very well. At times you can pick them up with a scope mount for under $400.

Rich L
 
I have two Leupold Mark AR's 3-9's with mil-dot. I like them and have hit steel and one dog out to 500 yards. They are nothing fancy but work very well. At times you can pick them up with a scope mount for under $400. PS the NF that buks has for sale is very nice don't know what you paid for your AR but that scope is more then some of my AR's cost.

Rich L
 
I'm an old guy.

I like a little more power, in my optics. I use 5-20, 6-24, 8-32 and even 12-42. They are a mix of NForce , Nikon, vortex and Sightron. Oh, and a few vintage Leupolds. The Vortex, and Sightrons are pretty good, for the price. The nikons are 1 in. Tubes, and don't have a lot of adjustment for longer ranges. The NF are very nice, but much more expensive. My ARs wear the 5-20, and the 6-24. They also have long, fat barrels. Another has a 5 Acog, for the shorter distances. I find the Vortex and Sightron to be perfectly adequate for my ARs. Good luck.
richidaho said:
I have two Leupold Mark AR's 3-9's with mil-dot. I like them and have hit steel and one dog out to 500 yards. They are nothing fancy but work very well. At times you can pick them up with a scope mount for under $400. PS the NF that buks has for sale is very nice don't know what you paid for your AR but that scope is more then some of my AR's cost.

Rich L
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I have been shooting scoped rifles since 1963 and have a novel way to find your target in the scope instantly even off hand. You hold your rifle in the shooting position then with your cheek on the stock roll your head up so you are looking directly over the scope looking right at your target. Then roll your head down so you are looking through the scope and with practice your target will be right in the middle of the scope.

Ok now I will suggest a scope which is as clear and sharp with very good contrast. It also has target turrets that are as accurate as my Vortex PST 6-24 FFP MOA scope. The one I have on my 5.56 is a Bushnell AR/223 scope with 4.5-18x40mm zoom. I can easily see the bullet holes in my 100 yd. targets. A lot of guys like a 3-9 power, but I can not tell the difference between 3 & 4.5 power. There is a big difference in 9 power and 18 power. IMHO this scope is sharper than my Leupold.

When I got mine it was on sale for $174.00. Bass Pro has them in their show case and will match prices if you would like to compare to others. A NF will cost you $1000 more which will buy a lot of ammo. Most places sell the AR/223 for around $250.

BUSHNELL 4.5-18X40 BDC RETICLE TARGET AR-SCOPE | Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore

PS: My AR is a Colt LE 6920 M4 lower with a Geissele SSA-E trigger and a White Oak Armament 18" varmint upper with 1 in 7" twist and also had WOA Flute the barrel.

The target was the very first 5 shot group after shooting twice to sight in the scope. I shot my Sierra 65 grain Game kings I used with the other upper. Then I shot 5 shots with 69 gr. Match Kings and the group was even smaller.

The eye piece is thicker than most scopes and that is why I turned the rear mount around. I will be changing it to a mount that measures 1.5 inches from the top of the rail to the center of the scope tube. At this hight my cheek weld will be more comfortable for me too.
 

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Whats your price range?

My first recommendation is going to be the Nightforce 2.5-10X42. I absolutely love that scope. It is bright, clear, and fairly compact. Perfect for a precision AR or lightweight/compact bolt gun.
 
I also put a B-SQUARE bubble level on the Picatinny rail. I also added a Custom Turret Label so I won't have to use a computer program for long distance. Laser Range your target then turn your elevation turret to the yardage, hold for wind and shoot.

Custom Turret Systems | Affordable Custom Turret Labels
 

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wareagle700 said:
Whats your price range?

My first recommendation is going to be the Nightforce 2.5-10X42. I absolutely love that scope. It is bright, clear, and fairly compact. Perfect for a precision AR or lightweight/compact bolt gun.
Click to expand...


Either a Vortex Gen II HD 1-6X ($1400) or the Night force 2.5-10X42 ($1850+/-).

I do like 1-6x better than a 1-4x, plenty of mag. for 3-400 steps. The Vortex is like a big screen tv, bright, very easy to "get behind", sharp, did I mention bright? Only drawback is that is a little heavy.

The NF 2.5-10x42 is a fantastic scope, light weight, compact, super clear glass, gets a lot done with out a lot of size. If your rifle is up to it, so is the NF. SFP, may be good for you, easy to acquire at low mag. (you won't loose the reticle), but is 2.5x low enough compared to a 1x, how much up close will you be doing?


Not esp. cheap, but both scopes are a good value for what you get.

Good luck to you.
 
I also have a DDM4V7 and usually run a 1-4 Trijicon but when I am shooting paper at 100 yards plus I use an SWFA SS 3-15. It is a good fit for an AR15 platform and I particularly like the side focus parallax adjustment.
 
Vortex Razor HD Gen 2 1-6x. Used mine out to 500m yesterday on top of my JP-15. The illuminated dot does very well on 1x shotting as you would with an aimpoint at closer range. Nice optic for a dual role rifle.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
+1 for Nightforce - I just grabbed one of their 2.5-10x42 Mil-R models from Sport Optics for my precision AR build - BCM 16" stainless middy.

I like the approach of being able to optimize the gun for each role as opposed to trying to have one optic do it all. To that end, I am using a Bobro mount for the scope and another Bobro for an alternate optic - Aimpoint red-dot, so I can quickly swap out optics at will for the desired purpose.

The other approach (1-6 do-it-all optic) is certainly valid. You just have to figure out where you are willing to compromise - there are always trade-offs.
 
The new Bushnell LRHS scope is an excellent short to mid range scope at a pretty good price & offers tons of high end features at a low price & is near perfect for a precision AR15

However if you want to actually see your .223 bullet holes at 400 to 600 yards, you are going to need something with a pretty good amount of magnification.
 
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I have the 1-6 GenII Razor on one set up and the Nightforce 1-4 on another and i'll be honest i could hit a man sized target out to 400 very easy with either and the NF feels like it fits the AR 15 sized rifle better . I love the Razor but its a bit heavy. I am talking to Jay over at Sport Optics about the Nightforce 2.5-10x42 MilR now for my LMT MWS , it will be the next optic i buy . I wish Nightforce made a 1-6 it would solve all my rifles for optics but the bolt in .308 i'll keep the F1 Mlr 2.0 for it
 
Here is some of my sarcasm:

Since there are all the cheep scope suggestions like Night Force, Acog and Razor HD why don't you get a good one like the March Tactical 8-80x56mm scope $4,000.00. When you get above 60 power the mirage disappears and you don't have to worry about it any more. If you don't grab the barrel of your rifle and drag it to your deer stand you don't need a scope that is made for the rough treatment in the military. Those scopes that have been suggested are nice scopes, but before you buy compare the Bushnell AR/223 4.5-18x40mm scope for less than $250 to the scopes that have been suggested. I bet you will be very surprised how clear, sharp with very good contrast compared to the others. Some will be better, but you will pay $1000.00 plus to get better.

Tactical 8-80 x 56

JM2Cents

Instead of spending all that money on an expensive scope you could get a WOA upper like mine and be pretty sure of getting a tac driver.

White Oak Armament | Complete Uppers | Varmint Uppers
 

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Mr. Pink, it is very apparent that you are pleased with your Bushnell AR scope. Im sure it fits your needs just fine. However, there is no comparison between a $250 or less scope and the others mentioned above. You pay more for these other scopes because they are better optics in general, and not just in glass quality. Its not that we are recommending these based on their price or how cool they make you, its their quality and reputation. Now if the OP is looking in the $200-$300 price range, your suggestion might be a good one to consider. But, even though he hasn't given us a direct answer as to his budget, it seems like he is willing to spend a bit more for a higher end optic.
 
wareagle700,

I realize what you are saying and since he hasn't told us what his budget is that is why I suggested the 8-80x56mm March scope. They cost about $4000 and are great for really long range shooting.
 
Your question is worded so well, that a response seems mandatory.

4X ACOG works very well for all around use and is far more capable than you might imagine.
 
+1 for the NF 2.5-10. You might also want to look at the Leupold MR/T 2.5-8. I used the scope in the past and loved it. I recently bought a brand new one for a 16", 308, gasser and I personally would not hesitate to drop one on a 556 gun. Let's face it, there is a reason why it has been a staple in the US Military for years and still sees service by our service men and women.
 
If you want to save a little, the 2.5-10x44 from vortex in the viper PST series is pretty nice considering the price tag. Is it a Nightforce or some other $1000 plus scope? No.

That being said I have shot under MOA on a Rock River ATH with 75gr Match ammo out to 700 yards using my Viper PST.
 
richidaho said:
I have two Leupold Mark AR's 3-9's with mil-dot. I like them and have hit steel and one dog out to 500 yards. They are nothing fancy but work very well. At times you can pick them up with a scope mount for under $400.

Rich L
Click to expand...

+1 Mark AR 3x9 with the TMR/Firedot in a Larue QD mount. The dot is fast/handy up close, turn it off and have TMR. The white label is my experimental BDC I made with photoshop, 100-650yds. Confirmed out to 575 so far, even with just 9x I have no problem spotting hits at that distance. (so far)
 

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Your Daniel Defense M4V7 AR with a good scope and the Geissele trigger you installed, great move, will get you out to 400 yards. The problem I see is being able to see .224 holes @ 400 yards. I know I can not spot .224 holes @ 400 years with my USO ST 10 or any of my Nightforce scopes set on 10 power. Perhaps some can but I can not. For me I have to use a 20X setting. I am usually a Nightforce guy (I have 7 of them) but I recently bought a Bushnell Elite G2DMR FFP 3.5-21X50 scope that allows me to resolve .224 holes at 400 yards. The cost is well under the Nightforce 2.5-10X42 and only lacks and illuminated reticle.
 
I have a Bushnell LRS 2.5-16x42, for exactly that application. I have had great results with it from 1 to 600 yards. Pretty affordable quality optic.
 
I'm a big fan of the USO 1-8. It's a true 1x which you can use for CQB with the illum, and it can go all the way out to 8x for the longer work. It's the perfect scope for what you're looking to do, and you can spec it out however you like.
 
Finally got to play with a Trijicon VCOG last week. I tested the VCOG on a friends rifle too see if it might fit my needs for my SPR. While I cant say that it fit my needs as far as precision goes, hitting man sized steel was super fast and super accurate out to 600 yards. Additionally the 1x was Super fast, Id say just as fast as a T1 at CQB distances. Yes its pretty expensive, HOWEVER, you don't need to buy a red dot plus mount because that's essentially built in, and you don't need to buy a mount for the magnified optic because that is also built in.
 
A spotting scope and a 1-6x optic will do what you need. There are lots of great options out there but only a few that also provide a daylight visible 1x red dot. I'm very happy with the Leupold Mk 6 1-6.
 
everyone has their favorites, anything in the 1-10x realm will be great for your needs, weather it a 3-9, 2-8, 3-10, 1-8, etc. pick the brand you like in the budget you like and be done with it. People will argue their brands till the end of the internet
 
I may have to break down and actually head on over to Cabela's to look though scopes!

Great advice here, guys, thank you.
 
I've shot a lot of both. I had a few TA31RCOs for 5 years while I was in the infantry, some TA11 offerings towards the end on the M27s. Meanwhile, my personal AR15 in 6.5G runs a 2.5-10x32 NXS and has for about 4 years now.

We qualified at 500yd shooting a generously sized human torso E-mod target. You can nail that fucker with some practice, in fact you'll probably do better than we did because you'll have a free-floating barrel, but I don't think you'll be printing any tiny groups at that range. Also, bear in mind that the ACOG is calibrated in meters, not yards. The various chevrons and donuts don't really lend themselves to ultra-precise shooting. It's a good choice I guess for all-around shooting without thinking too hard (BDC). More often than I am comfortable with, they had tracking issues. Once set they were usually good, but getting a zero was a bear with some of them. Possibly worn out/abused I don't know.

The 2.5-10x32 on the other hand has been an absolute dream. Crystal clear, and a really fine precise aiming point. With some familiarization, you can remember your holds out to 500 pretty easy, or just print a cheat-sheet and tape it somewhere. It tracks 100%, holds zero 100%. For 400-600yd, the 10x high-end is much better, and the 2.5x low end can be used inside a house. The reticles are illuminated if you want them to be (no E tape required).

You're spending about the same for either choice, so unless you're really hurting to save 3/4 a pound (10oz + rings/mount), the 2.5-10x32 gets you more bang for the buck.

I've never used these, but like I said, Vortex has a 2.5-10x32 offering with a FFP reticle, if that's your thing, too. About $400 cheaper. Vortex 2.5-10x32 .
 
I have a Nikon M223 in the 3-12x42 range. Plenty of FOV at 3X to hit running jackrabbits at 30 yds. and crank it up to 12X for shots out past 600 yds. Decent glass, decent features. Relatively inexpensive too.



 
Amsdorf said:
This one keeps coming up as recommended.

Would I get a better view/picture/brightness with the x42 model of this scope?
Click to expand...

I don't know to be honest. I do know that the 2.5-10x32 model is a great little scope and you can find them with MOA knobs and an MOA reticule on here for 1000-1200 bucks. Just keep an eye on the used optics section.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I wanted to report back in and let you know what I decided to do.

I decided to start with a lower priced scope, learn how to use it well, determine if it is "enough" for my purposes, and then go from there.

I picked up a LNIB Vortex Viper HS-LR 2.5-10x32mm scope. First focal plane, XLR-MOA reticle.

I got it for $600.

I appreciate the advice.
 
US Optics 1.5-6 illuminated reticle. Can double as a red dot with both eyes opens. Serves CQB and 600 yard range.
 
Please stop posting the same question in every forum, Amsdorf. Also, if you would've searched the stickies you would have gotten your answer and spared all of us the misery of reading your comments. :eek:
 
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Although not a NF compact, I use/have used my go to NXS 5.5-22x50 mil/mil on multiple LR bolt and AR rifles.

It currently sits atop a 16" LMT MRP SS and has been great to 600 yds. After thousands of rounds on multiple rifles (223, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x47 L, 6.5 CM, 308, 284 Win, 7 wsm)
it keeps humming along. Glass is great and it tracks as it did the day I pulled it out of the box.

Some will say that the mag range is overkill for a small AR but I find it useful for spotting those hits on or off targets at longer ranges.

I shoot it set somewhere between the 10-16 mag range and spot for buds on the 22 setting.











*On a side note, I also run a Meopta ZD 1-4 between a 300 Blk SBR and the LMT 223 and the glass and reticle are incredible.

http://www.meopta.com/en/zd-1-4x22-1404042235.html
 
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CTown137 said:
+1 for the NF 2.5-10. You might also want to look at the Leupold MR/T 2.5-8. I used the scope in the past and loved it. I recently bought a brand new one for a 16", 308, gasser and I personally would not hesitate to drop one on a 556 gun. Let's face it, there is a reason why it has been a staple in the US Military for years and still sees service by our service men and women.
Click to expand...

20 year old tech that has been outclasses by cheaper optics commercialy.

The MRT's were replaced a long time ago with NF 2.5-10x XX for anyone who actualy was shooting people.
 
The military recently ordered a bunch of 1 to 6 leupolds for their DMR rifles. Night force 2.5 to 10 is old tech now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Cobracutter said:
20 year old tech that has been outclasses by cheaper optics commercialy.

The MRT's were replaced a long time ago with NF 2.5-10x XX for anyone who actualy was shooting people.
Click to expand...

Cobra... thanks again for showing off your infinite wisdom on all that is US Military weapons. I did not say that the MRT was the only scope used. I just said it was used.... and STILL IS. If you dispute that, I have several friends over seas that would love to prove you wrong.
 
CTown137 said:
Cobra... thanks again for showing off your infinite wisdom on all that is US Military weapons. I did not say that the MRT was the only scope used. I just said it was used.... and STILL IS. If you dispute that, I have several friends over seas that would love to prove you wrong.
Click to expand...

They also have PV4's and Shelter Halfs issued as well.

I was just pointing out that there are MUCH better options on the market, better glass, better tracking, modern features than the legacy MK4, which are pretty shitty by today's standards.
 
355sigfan said:
The military recently ordered a bunch of 1 to 6 leupolds for their DMR rifles. Night force 2.5 to 10 is old tech now.


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Click to expand...

MK4 is not MK6...........thanks for showing your ass though.
 
Never said it was as for asses you're the biggest on the forum.


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