- Thread starter ChrisBCS
- Start date
Thin barrels are simply harder to find the sweet spot, and the sweet spot is narrower with respect to jump distance and powder charge.
Some shoot ok though. Strangest thing, got a Wallyworld plastic stocked factory Remy 700 basic model (got a Hogue stock for shipping cost and a serious free float, Larue pic, Brownells Tac rings, Weaver scope, used bottom metal and sold everything else it came with-scope, rings etc at a local g/s. With a load 55 grainers and cfe 223, I does give me moa for three at 100. If it gets hot, it starts to spead a bit. I will replace the barrel eventually, but as of right now, it is a repeatable and known barrel with repeating results on different days. I need to see what happens around 20-30 degrees f, but I think I am going to use this one for coyotes this year.
I had a 30-06 that was bringing in 2 inches even with varying weights of Bergers and Sierras. Barrel got yanked and goes into the pile.
I had a 30-06 that was bringing in 2 inches even with varying weights of Bergers and Sierras. Barrel got yanked and goes into the pile.
Jump .015 on average if it fits in the mag
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I think that there is a relationship between bullet ogive configuration and chamber leade angle, and that this relationship may have larger accuracy consequences than barrel contour.
I also believe that when heating distorts dispersion, the load may need to be reduced slightly for sustained strings of fire (if you shoot sustained, develop the load for sustained). If heat shifts POI, it may benefit one to add a barrel pressure pad in the far end of the barrel channel (this also necessitates reworking the load once the pad is in place).
Heavy barrels absorb more heat and may delay the onset of heat induced dispersion. But they also have all that extra heat to dissipate afterward and can take a lot longer to do it.
Keep in mind that the interior of the heavier barrel is experiencing far greater thermal extremes, and combining this with higher volumes of fire may be more detrimental to the service life of heavier barrels than some may expect.
If we can better tailor the loads to match the thermal heating curve, and control any tendency toward a walking POI, lighter barrels can be more effective than many of us might believe.
Don't forget about the possible ogive/leade angle thing.
If the load is intended for an application that requires a followup shot, the load length should be capable of being magazine fed. Any accuracy sacrifices this entails may not be negligible, but the tradeoff is probably also unavoidable.
Greg
I also believe that when heating distorts dispersion, the load may need to be reduced slightly for sustained strings of fire (if you shoot sustained, develop the load for sustained). If heat shifts POI, it may benefit one to add a barrel pressure pad in the far end of the barrel channel (this also necessitates reworking the load once the pad is in place).
Heavy barrels absorb more heat and may delay the onset of heat induced dispersion. But they also have all that extra heat to dissipate afterward and can take a lot longer to do it.
Keep in mind that the interior of the heavier barrel is experiencing far greater thermal extremes, and combining this with higher volumes of fire may be more detrimental to the service life of heavier barrels than some may expect.
If we can better tailor the loads to match the thermal heating curve, and control any tendency toward a walking POI, lighter barrels can be more effective than many of us might believe.
Don't forget about the possible ogive/leade angle thing.
If the load is intended for an application that requires a followup shot, the load length should be capable of being magazine fed. Any accuracy sacrifices this entails may not be negligible, but the tradeoff is probably also unavoidable.
Greg
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I've never understood the love affair that some have with the lightweight barrels. The people I know that have this "affliction" are anal about their rifle weight yet then strap on dozens of pounds of crap for their hunt, most of it totally unnecessary.
Add a pound to the barrel weight and just leave those extra's home.
Add a pound to the barrel weight and just leave those extra's home.
That is undoubtedly true. In my instance, I actually prefer the additional mass of a heavy barrel due to my reduced recoil tolerance.
In the one instance, my 223 Mossberg 20" MVP predator is clearly a lighter forearm with a medium weight barrel. It shoots well and is not a recoil generator with such a minor chambering, and is intended as a hunter with some DMR potential with a Tasco 6-24x42 Varmint/Target MilDot scope. Though inexpensive, the scope matches the potential of the rifle using handloads and isn't especially heavy.
OTOH my walkaround AR Upper uses a 16" bull barrel because it is more likely to encounter rapid sustained fire, and I want that fire to retain some cohesion. It's a fairly heavy firearm, but the additional weight is a tradeoff I choose to accept as a consequence of potentially better sustained fire accuracy. To help ease the weight of portage, I also use a http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AVZQSLO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 while the walkaround upper is mounted. Obviously, Post-SAFE, the lower employs a SAFE compliant stock system.
The other Upper is a Varmint/Precision firearm with a 24" bull barrel. Since it is unlikely to encounter rapid sustained fire and also unlikely to be used in walkaround, the significant weight penalty is acceptable. No Bipod, I use either a rest or hasty support.
My walkaround upper uses a .223 BDC scope and offset BUIS, the Varmint Upper employs a Weaver V-24 Classic. The lower has a BAD lever added. That's it. The MVP and both uppers feed from the same set of magazines, and loads are developed with some interchangeability in mind (I think it's OK to trade a small bit of precision in favor of a wider compatibility).
Like you, I prefer the KISS principle, and my only real added options deal with ergos and sighting, period.
Greg
In the one instance, my 223 Mossberg 20" MVP predator is clearly a lighter forearm with a medium weight barrel. It shoots well and is not a recoil generator with such a minor chambering, and is intended as a hunter with some DMR potential with a Tasco 6-24x42 Varmint/Target MilDot scope. Though inexpensive, the scope matches the potential of the rifle using handloads and isn't especially heavy.
OTOH my walkaround AR Upper uses a 16" bull barrel because it is more likely to encounter rapid sustained fire, and I want that fire to retain some cohesion. It's a fairly heavy firearm, but the additional weight is a tradeoff I choose to accept as a consequence of potentially better sustained fire accuracy. To help ease the weight of portage, I also use a http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AVZQSLO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 while the walkaround upper is mounted. Obviously, Post-SAFE, the lower employs a SAFE compliant stock system.
The other Upper is a Varmint/Precision firearm with a 24" bull barrel. Since it is unlikely to encounter rapid sustained fire and also unlikely to be used in walkaround, the significant weight penalty is acceptable. No Bipod, I use either a rest or hasty support.
My walkaround upper uses a .223 BDC scope and offset BUIS, the Varmint Upper employs a Weaver V-24 Classic. The lower has a BAD lever added. That's it. The MVP and both uppers feed from the same set of magazines, and loads are developed with some interchangeability in mind (I think it's OK to trade a small bit of precision in favor of a wider compatibility).
Like you, I prefer the KISS principle, and my only real added options deal with ergos and sighting, period.
Greg
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For me it's just about making a pretty 1980's R700 hunting rifle (.30-06) shoot well without changes like re-barreling.
Try some Berger hunting bullets then. I have a old 30-06 that really likes them over everthing else. I load them as long as possible, yet still fit in the magazine well and feed. Use Varget and I am not even close to the max powder charge. It made me really happy.
One thing that will make a huge difference in the felt recoil and maybe even give you some surprising accuracy is to add a clamp on muzzle brake. Take a look at the Witt Machine muzzle brake that is machined to match your barrel dimensions. Can be clamped on or removed, depending on whether you are shooting it or just showing it off.
The weight of the brake acts like a barrel tuner and when it comes to recoil reduction it lives up to it's promise.
There's a guy who shoots at our club range that just installs a "Shaft Collar" that matches the barrels OD. Picks them up at the local hardware store and then moves it back and forth a few fractions of an inch to "tune' the barrel. Kind of looks a little like one of the "rings" on an old "Buck Rodger's Ray-Gun" but the groups he shoots at 200 yards from his hunting rifles look like groups from a heavy barreled target rifle. I guess it depends on which is more important, "Form" or "Function".
