Rifle Scopes  ZCO 2-16

BurtGummer

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  • Jul 17, 2021
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    When is ZCO going to make a scope similar in size and zoom to a NX8.
    Something like a 30mm 2-12 or 2-16?

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    BurtGummer

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  • Jul 17, 2021
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    We are always watching and listening though. Lay it out. What do you have in mind exactly? The more specific the better. Can't make any promises though, but we are open to listening to desires.
    A lightweight short scope with a base mag of 2-2.5.

    like the nx8 but better lol.

    the shortness and low minimum mag would be really nice for night shooting with clip on optics.
     

    ma smith

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  • Sep 29, 2020
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    A lightweight short scope with a base mag of 2-2.5.

    like the nx8 but better lol.

    the shortness and low minimum mag would be really nice for night shooting with clip on optics.
    What is your budget...please don't say $2k :ROFLMAO:
     

    GreenMushroom

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    A ffp razor lht with amazing glass and a screaming bright reticle like a nx8 1-8. <3000$ and the weight has to stay the same.

    Price probably isn't doable since I'd be your only customer😔
     

    BurtGummer

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  • Jul 17, 2021
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    A ffp razor lht with amazing glass and a screaming bright reticle like a nx8 1-8. <3000$ and the weight has to stay the same.

    Price probably isn't doable since I'd be your only customer😔
    This?
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    just get their 4-20 if that’s the mag range and size you care about



    also. Bringing Gatex scopes into a ZCO thread

    Blasphemy
     
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    Bakwa

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    ZCO LPVO in the 1-8 or 1-10 range. Kudos if you can do it with a FFP reticle that's usable for out to 800m.

    ZCO lightweight FFP option in the 2-10, 3-15 range.
    I too find myself lacklustered by the Razor lht with it being SFP and delicate/cheap feeling.
    I'd pay ZCO money if they could do it in their flavor and still keep it under ~26oz.
     

    Secant

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    We are always watching and listening though. Lay it out. What do you have in mind exactly? The more specific the better. Can't make any promises though, but we are open to listening to desires.
    Man, if you’re taking requests:

    Hows about a 420 “hunting” model similar(ish) to how Tangent has their “M” series. Drop to 28oz range, smaller tube (30mm or 34mm), smaller 10mil/rev turrets, keep 50mm objective, same general controls & reticles.
     

    GreenMushroom

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    [/QUOTE]
    ZCO LPVO in the 1-8 or 1-10 range. Kudos if you can do it with a FFP reticle that's usable for out to 800m.

    ZCO lightweight FFP option in the 2-10, 3-15 range.
    I too find myself lacklustered by the Razor lht with it being SFP and delicate/cheap feeling.
    I'd pay ZCO money if they could do it in their flavor and still keep it under ~26oz.

    Basically I want the weight and eyebox from my lht, the glass from my 553, the illumination from my aimpoint, and ffp. If I send in all 3 do you think they could hammer me something together?
     

    Glassaholic

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  • Nov 30, 2012
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    I had already resigned myself to spending a whole bunch of money on a new scope when I clicked on this thread. I find myself somewhat relieved that my bank account is safe, I think...
    You’re not the only one, just watch how many views this thread gets. I think I wrote about this last year in my rumor/wishlist post for scopes in 2021.
     

    Glassaholic

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  • Nov 30, 2012
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    We are always watching and listening though. Lay it out. What do you have in mind exactly? The more specific the better. Can't make any promises though, but we are open to listening to desires.
    The MPVO territory is ripe for some fresh blood, too many LPVO’s to compete with unless you OEM like ATI did.

    You want specifics, okay, let’s get specific ;):
    A 2-16x42 FFP with 30mm tube that weighs under 23oz. Parts made in your same facility in Austria with glass that performs at the level of the current ZCO line with wide angle eyepiece providing enormous FOV but not too wide so you limit edge distortion . A short body design but not too short so you don’t compromise eyebox, DOF and parallax forgiveness (something the NX8 struggles with mightily). Turrets that have click feel more in line with Tangent Theta and only 10 mil per rev. Same illumination module that you have in current ZCO with auto shutoff and movement turn on, etc. New reticle that works at the bottom end of magnification as well as the top end without being too thick at top or too thin at bottom with something that helps draw the eye to center when at low mags, tree is essential but not with thick horizontal tree lines, use just dots in tree keeping the view clean throughout mag range. Include a gold certificate in 10 boxes like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, lucky winners get a personal tour of ZCO facilities in Idaho and get to participate in assembly and get a selfie with Nick and Jeff, a competition ensues with the lucky ten using a custom SPR/DMR style AR with the 2-16x42 ZCO mounted, shooter to get the most first shot hits on various distance targets out to 800 yards wins the rifle 😳 😆

    Was that specific enough? 😂
     

    Huskydriver

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    The MPVO territory is ripe for some fresh blood, too many LPVO’s to compete with unless you OEM like ATI did.

    You want specifics, okay, let’s get specific ;):
    A 2-16x42 FFP with 30mm tube that weighs under 23oz. Parts made in your same facility in Austria with glass that performs at the level of the current ZCO line with wide angle eyepiece providing enormous FOV but not too wide so you limit edge distortion . A short body design but not too short so you don’t compromise eyebox, DOF and parallax forgiveness (something the NX8 struggles with mightily). Turrets that have click feel more in line with Tangent Theta and only 10 mil per rev. Same illumination module that you have in current ZCO with auto shutoff and movement turn on, etc. New reticle that works at the bottom end of magnification as well as the top end without being too thick at top or too thin at bottom with something that helps draw the eye to center when at low mags, tree is essential but not with thick horizontal tree lines, use just dots in tree keeping the view clean throughout mag range. Include a gold certificate in 10 boxes like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, lucky winners get a personal tour of ZCO facilities in Idaho and get to participate in assembly and get a selfie with Nick and Jeff, a competition ensues with the lucky ten using a custom SPR/DMR style AR with the 2-16x42 ZCO mounted, shooter to get the most first shot hits on various distance targets out to 800 yards wins the rifle 😳 😆

    Was that specific enough? 😂

    I second this 💯.
     
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    Sprayed99

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  • Jan 9, 2012
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    The only 2 things that I would want to see are updates to the current offerings. A user lock on the locking turrets. Basically a way to lock the elevation turret in the unlocked position... If that makes sense.

    10 MIL turret with a more defined feeling...think Tangent Theta.

    If those 2 things were an option my TT would be long gone.... I would even be okay with losing the tooless re-zero if the other 2 above were features.
     
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    Squibbler

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    I'm in agreement with y'all. Except I'd maybe suggest smaller 5mil turrets. Help achieve weight goals easier and give more spacing between clicks. More space to allow more tactile. For the "less than ideal conditions" like this scope is aimed at (hunting situations).... cold temps, cold hands, gloved hands, wet, dirty, night time, etc. Besides, for hunting situations, 5 mils gets me to 700ish and with second rev indicators to indicate 10 mils takes me to 1k'ish .... This addresses the majority of hunting situations in a smaller, lighter, more tactile package.
     
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    Squibbler

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    2-16 might be that perfect mag ratio. If it can be made without the compromises. 2x to give close to market dominance in FOV and 16x for happiness at 1k. For the clip on world, at 2x, it would maximize FOV, the scope wouldn't be the limiting factor.
    Image/reticle pairing sizes would be very usable throughout the mag range. Also, upper end mag (16x) would take full advantage of magnification allowance of high end clip-on.
     

    Bakwa

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    I'm in agreement with y'all. Except I'd maybe suggest smaller 5mil turrets. Help achieve weight goals easier and give more spacing between clicks. More space to allow more tactile. For the "less than ideal conditions" like this scope is aimed at (hunting situations).... cold temps, cold hands, gloved hands, wet, dirty, night time, etc. Besides, for hunting situations, 5 mils gets me to 700ish and with second rev indicators to indicate 10 mils takes me to 1k'ish .... This addresses the majority of hunting situations in a smaller, lighter, more tactile package.
    That's a good thought.
    I think this would be a worthy "compromise" for a lighter handy practical hunting scope.
    ...See what I did there? ...🤭
    But seriously, that's a good idea.
     

    GreenMushroom

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    The MPVO territory is ripe for some fresh blood, too many LPVO’s to compete with unless you OEM like ATI did.

    You want specifics, okay, let’s get specific ;):
    A 2-16x42 FFP with 30mm tube that weighs under 23oz. Parts made in your same facility in Austria with glass that performs at the level of the current ZCO line with wide angle eyepiece providing enormous FOV but not too wide so you limit edge distortion . A short body design but not too short so you don’t compromise eyebox, DOF and parallax forgiveness (something the NX8 struggles with mightily). Turrets that have click feel more in line with Tangent Theta and only 10 mil per rev. Same illumination module that you have in current ZCO with auto shutoff and movement turn on, etc. New reticle that works at the bottom end of magnification as well as the top end without being too thick at top or too thin at bottom with something that helps draw the eye to center when at low mags, tree is essential but not with thick horizontal tree lines, use just dots in tree keeping the view clean throughout mag range. Include a gold certificate in 10 boxes like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, lucky winners get a personal tour of ZCO facilities in Idaho and get to participate in assembly and get a selfie with Nick and Jeff, a competition ensues with the lucky ten using a custom SPR/DMR style AR with the 2-16x42 ZCO mounted, shooter to get the most first shot hits on various distance targets out to 800 yards wins the rifle 😳 😆

    Was that specific enough? 😂

    You put it far more eloquently than I did. Weight, eyebox, reticle usable on the low end, and fov. I'll add daylight bright illumination. I normally don't like cliches but in short a game changer. The market is awash in lpvo so I don't see the point in that.

    In his response to my post above burt highlighted the hunting aspect as a joke but it shouldn't be discounted. I'm not a hunter myself but plenty of guys buy European scopes in the 3k-6k range so they can have their guide site it in for them and plug a swamp donkey once a year. That market could provide the volume to make it a practical undertaking. If the only market is a dozen guys on this forum it won't get made.

    2-16 or 3-18. 2-12 isn't enough. Why not a 1-10 at that point. Enough power you can roll it back to 10-12x and have a generous eyebox for offhand shooting.
     

    BurtGummer

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  • Jul 17, 2021
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    The MPVO territory is ripe for some fresh blood, too many LPVO’s to compete with unless you OEM like ATI did.

    You want specifics, okay, let’s get specific ;):
    A 2-16x42 FFP with 30mm tube that weighs under 23oz. Parts made in your same facility in Austria with glass that performs at the level of the current ZCO line with wide angle eyepiece providing enormous FOV but not too wide so you limit edge distortion . A short body design but not too short so you don’t compromise eyebox, DOF and parallax forgiveness (something the NX8 struggles with mightily). Turrets that have click feel more in line with Tangent Theta and only 10 mil per rev. Same illumination module that you have in current ZCO with auto shutoff and movement turn on, etc. New reticle that works at the bottom end of magnification as well as the top end without being too thick at top or too thin at bottom with something that helps draw the eye to center when at low mags, tree is essential but not with thick horizontal tree lines, use just dots in tree keeping the view clean throughout mag range. Include a gold certificate in 10 boxes like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, lucky winners get a personal tour of ZCO facilities in Idaho and get to participate in assembly and get a selfie with Nick and Jeff, a competition ensues with the lucky ten using a custom SPR/DMR style AR with the 2-16x42 ZCO mounted, shooter to get the most first shot hits on various distance targets out to 800 yards wins the rifle 😳 😆

    Was that specific enough? 😂
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    7CCE3527-D7F3-4E30-BB9E-69172A123390.gif
     
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    Moose

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  • Jul 3, 2005
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    I run the NF 2.5x10x42 compact on a Kidd SG and it is a outstanding little scope.
     

    Bakwa

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    Further refining my ZCO scope dream request: if I could basically get a FFP NXS with better glass, better eye box, better FOV, and keep it under ~26oz with NF/ZCO ruggedness, that'd be super legit.
    I'd sell my NXS 2.5-10x42 and pay over double for that ZCO.
     

    Bakwa

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    Lol the 420 is only 8 ounces more than your limit.
    lol
    Have to draw the line somewhere.
    My preferred weight would be 19-21oz.
    A NXS 2.5-10 or Razor LHT feels and handles noticeably different than a ZCO 420. I guess I'm asking for them to create something closer to the former two.
     
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    GreenMushroom

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    I wanted to try to articulate a little better what I was trying to say earlier so this might get a bit long winded. 1st off Glass is right about mpvo being underrepresented. Optics technology has come a long ways and lpvo have progressed in leaps and bounds to the point that some consider mpvo to be obsolete. I don't think that is the case at all and believe technological developments simply haven't reached that segment of the market.

    Starting at classic lpvo like the short dot, N.F. 1-4, accupoint 1-4 etc we've progressed to scopes that are not really lpvo at all. The best of them like the ATACR, G3, S&B 1-8 are hybrids. They are essentially all of what you'd want in a lpvo and some of what you'd want in a mpvo. What I'm trying to get at is a scope that is the reverse. All of a mpvo and some of a lpvo.

    I'd been out of shooting for awhile
    and i bought a selection of mid range Japanese and one Philippine-made scopes to try and figure out what I liked. The razor LHT was one of them. It has it's shortcomings mainly being spf but I was very impressed with the eyebox. Night and day difference compared to the hunting scopes of my youth.

    I have the reticle with the thick posts coming in from the sides and it's actually fairly easy to use with both eyes open in bright daylight. The illuminated dot is also fairly bright and indoors its quite easy to use that way. I had planned to try an offset dot but my experience with the LHT had me thinking why not just put the dot in the scope?

    For this what power it is on the bottom end doesn't really matter within reason. 2 or 3 power is fine the more important factor being what power works best for the engineers to get the best eyebox in balance with the top end you're looking for. The keys are good eyebox/fov and nuclear bright illumination. This technology exists for ffp now and is used in the nx8 1-8 and g3 which in the scope of this thread are mid priced optics. There's no reason a 4k mpvo can't incorporate this technology.

    In short make a high quality, lightweight, ffp mpvo with real daylight bright illumination.
     

    SilentSteelCM

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    Oct 29, 2020
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    I for my part am looking for exactly what is described here. A top tier scope with better mag range than current lpvos, ffp, low profile and lockable turrets (for mounting a dot on top) in a relatively short, lightweight package. Goals for these values would be for me around 30cm and 550 grams. Basically a scope that is at home on my hunting rifle, placed in a spuhr hunting mount with the gen2 acro on top. At the same time it would be a perfect dmr scope, so if you actually decide to make it (especially in the 2-16 range with good ruggedness) I'm going to buy 2.
    I currently use a s&b pm2 ultra short 3-20x with t1 on top, but it is almost criminal to mount a optics combination that weighs 1.1 kilos with mounts on a carbon fiber chassis hunting rifle with titanium can. It was at the time (zco 4-20 was not out yet) the best compromise I could find with the features I wanted (ruggedness and mechanical precision being chosen over lighter weight options).
    I believe the tactical hunting scope market is desperately missing a top tier, lightweight scope like this that enables average shooters to reach further than with their traditional hunting scopes.
    Objective could be 42 or smaller to save weight, since light transmission is not of high importance. Most serious hunters use thermal clip ons (or some other nv) at night now, which this scope would be also perfect for. My clip on for example offers full field of view at 2.5x.
     
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    SilentSteelCM

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    What I forgot:
    Let's look at the competition that would come to my mind.
    Tt315 variants: too heavy at 800gr., no low profile turrets
    Nightforce nxs 2.5-10x: very old design, only 10x, turrets not lockable and too high for top mounted red dot, sfp
    Nightforce nx8 2.5-20x: too heavy, same turret issues
    Nightforce in general also has extremely bad availability in Europe at very inflated prices. For the price of the atacr 1-8 for example I'm almost getting the s&b pm2 1-8
    Vortex pst gen2 2-10x: only 10x, heavy, non locking and high turrets
    March: Good quality glass but delicate, not my choice for rugged use

    So in my mind this would be without real competition if I didn't miss something (it is very likely I did)
     
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    Dobermann

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    Hey gang ... don't forget that Jeff said in one of the podcast interviews (possibly the one with Frank) that he likes a 5x zoom ratio - and that once you get to 8x, then it creates all sorts of problems ...

    Just putting it out there so y'all don't start dreaming about whatcha not gonna get ... :)
     

    Steel+Killer

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  • May 27, 2014
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    You guys are never happy............

    "I want it to feel like you can drive railroad spikes with it, but weigh no more than a hummingbird feather."

    "I want to zoom in on the hair of a gnats balls at 800yds on the high end, but want a FOV so I can see a train end to end from 10yds on the low end."

    "I want to see the illumination when I look directly at the sun with it."

    "I want to feel the click of the turrets wearing a catcher's mitt, but with surgical precision."

    "I want it to include voice activated flip up lens covers, sunshade, polarizer filter for shooting a deer thru a window."

    "I want tooless zero."

    "I want it to cost no more than a Tasco."