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Suppressors Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

zenbiker

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2009
633
1
63
Charlottesville, Virginia
Went to the mailbox Friday to find my approved and stamped Form 1 for the suppressor for my CheyTac project. I'll say right up front I'm a novice machinist and gunsmith, and this is my first suppressor. I've lurked for quite a while and have decided on a straightforward stepped baffle design with a blast baffle/muzzle brake chamber. I was looking over the materials in my inventory and have this piece of 17-4 stainless tubing, 2.5" I.D. X 12" long; walls are .161" +/- 0.5". Got it from a company that sells seamless tubing however, this piece has obviously been TIG'd by robot, so it <span style="font-style: italic">should</span> be "seamless". Before I start betting the farm and a lot of machine time on it though, I wanted to ask for input from more experienced members if this tubing is acceptable for a suppressor to be used on a .375/408 CheyTac. Ears open, mouth shut, thanks in advance

Wes

Overall tube:
IMG_0057.jpg


TIG welded seam:
IMG_0059.jpg


Closeup of welded seam:
IMG_0058.jpg


Internal view of "seam" :
IMG_0060.jpg
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Personally if I was putting in all that effort, money, and time to make a 408 CT suppressor there is no way in hell I would be starting with anything questionable in any way. And that is questionable. I would start with brand new extruded tubing and turn it inside and out to true it up nice and perfect. This isn't a 22lr can after all.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Looks more like a EB weld rather than TIG, not knowing the supplier or the "heritage" of the stock, I'd be leery.

However, welded tubing can be just as strong as seamless, it's used in applications MUCH higher pressure than your can to be. Since it is a form 1 cna, what's the worst that can happen? IT will split along a line, maybe scrap a baffle? It's a form 1, start over again, just don't retain more pieces that it takes to build a single can. If you are doing all yourself, it's just your time.

FWIW, you also see welded caps on cans. If welds are all bad, why is a welded cap good? I'll bet it is stronger than a threaded cap, and won't stretch or leak like a thread.

I'd try it, as long as I am convinced it is the right material..
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Welded caps are fine because of how they are desigendiw its designed.

I have seen welded tubes that split at the seam.

You can not remake a Form1 can or parts of a Form1 can, the Form1 gives permission to do it once, not a permission slip to do R&D, and if the registered tube is destroyed then you have to file a new Form1.

Only manufacturers can replace components(not the registered tube), as a Form1 builder you are a MAKER not a MANUFACTURER.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Zenbiker,

Looks good and I'm dying to see how it works for you. I always like to see those who "DO" and not "BLOG" about it later.

jeff
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

If the weld is good, it's going to be stronger than the parent material. The Heat Affected Zone (HAZ) is generally where the material loses some strength if welded incorrectly.
I'm self taught, but I have been building stuff from different types of metal for over a decade, without incident I should add.
I would run it.
How do you plan to hold all the components together? I would imagine you would weld them right? Chances are that seam is better welded than any human could do.
I trust welds more than threads any day of the week.
If you have doubt's, I would do some more research into materials like inconel or titanium. Stuff that is used in the automotive word that takes the abuse of very high heat cycles, and plenty of them.
I would imagine that your barrel is stainless, so keeping the material close COULD keep the expansion/contraction similar.
If you have doubts, do some open source research. It costs your time, but dicking up the first time costs your time, plus the research time (that you could have done already), money in wasted material and possibly another form 1.
Very interesting topic and I wish that I knew more about it.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Just looked under your screen name and read titanium junkie. You probably already know more about the material than I.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Are you planning to leave the walls at .160"??

The internal desgine of the suppressor has a whole lot to do with the needed strength of the outer tube.

If you plan to weld the internals together then that seamed tube will be perfectly fine and in all honestly over kill. But if you are just stacking flaged cones on top of spacers on the inside then the strength of the outer tube needs to be solid and reliable.
At the very least i would make the rear end cap and blast chamber machoined from one piece of material then fully weld the balst baffle into the blast chamber.

I built a 223 can from solid 17-4 and i have to admit i dont think it was worth the hassel over 316 SS

I set it up with a brake/mount kinda like a threaded SF brake , things works better than any factroy can ive heard granted a bit bigger and heavier

You can see some pics here http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=80221
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pshell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just looked under your screen name and read titanium junkie. You probably already know more about the material than I. </div></div>

Having trouble getting the system to accept my avatar, but I've got enough titanium in my neck to build this project. Bad jiu-jitsu accident. BTW, it's difficult to machine, but I just got some high shear inserts that might do the job well. 17-4 can be easily heat treated; the blast baffle/muzzle brake segment will be treated, as will the baffles. I was planning on welding the endcaps on, but if I go with extruded I may do thread-on. The project linked to on SilencerTalk.com is similar to what I'm going to do. At this point I'm seeking input from more experienced gunsmiths and machinists, and taking the usual internet flogging with a smile on my face.

A lot of information to sift through, thanks to everyone who replied. Will be looking for extruded tubing instead. If anyone can recommend a supplier, that would be great; I did a quick search yesterday but didn't get far because of time. Thanks again to everyone; need to research over at SilencerTalk as well, didn't know they existed until now

Edit: a "titanium junkie's" avatar:

neckavatarsmall.jpg


 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you planning to leave the walls at .160"??

The internal desgine of the suppressor has a whole lot to do with the needed strength of the outer tube.

If you plan to weld the internals together then that seamed tube will be perfectly fine and in all honestly over kill. But if you are just stacking flaged cones on top of spacers on the inside then the strength of the outer tube needs to be solid and reliable.
At the very least i would make the rear end cap and blast chamber machoined from one piece of material then fully weld the balst baffle into the blast chamber.

I built a 223 can from solid 17-4 and i have to admit i dont think it was worth the hassel over 316 SS

I set it up with a brake/mount kinda like a threaded SF brake , things works better than any factroy can ive heard granted a bit bigger and heavier

You can see some pics here http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=80221 </div></div>

You bring up another question I have: what should the minimum wall thickness be? I plan on welding up the core as a solid unit. The blast baffle/brake assembly will be a solid welded unit. I am considering threaded end caps, requiring thicker walls (I presume) than if I welded the end caps on. Again, opinions appreciated.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

For a Chetyac your walls are already going to be more than thick enough to be able to thread the tube.

What baffle design were you going to go with?

Its part of what determines how thick the tube needs to be.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a Chetyac your walls are already going to be more than thick enough to be able to thread the tube.

What baffle design were you going to go with?

Its part of what determines how thick the tube needs to be. </div></div>

Here are pics of the design; it is from a design posted by another Hide member. The main exception is that plan on machining skirts on the baffles instead of using individual spacers, and the vent holes will not be on the edges of the baffles. The blast baffle/brake assembly is not shown:

pic3h.jpg


pic5qj.jpg


408can.jpg
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build


Lets say for 30 minutes that you did not want to use a 40 year old baffle design, what might you use? In other words, have you peeked inside any of the most modern, accurate cans in the last decade of four? Was there anything that you wanted to do but felt you could not fashion? Did you notice anything about the chamber sequencing and capacities? What about the diffuser and primary chamber did you notice and why is it not part of your build?

 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Lets say for 30 minutes that you did not want to use a 40 year old baffle design, what might you use? In other words, have you peeked inside any of the most modern, accurate cans in the last decade of four? Was there anything that you wanted to do but felt you could not fashion? Did you notice anything about the chamber sequencing and capacities? What about the diffuser and primary chamber did you notice and why is it not part of your build?

</div></div>

Go back and read his OP. He says in the first few lines he is not an experienced machinist nor that well versed in suppressor technology. Why harp on him for choosing a certain design? If you can diagnose a suppressors design by flipping it over and looking into the blast chamber, you should get a company up and running ASAP that does construction analysis and reverse engineering of products.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zenbiker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a Chetyac your walls are already going to be more than thick enough to be able to thread the tube.

What baffle design were you going to go with?

Its part of what determines how thick the tube needs to be. </div></div>

Here are pics of the design; it is from a design posted by another Hide member. The main exception is that plan on machining skirts on the baffles instead of using individual spacers, and the vent holes will not be on the edges of the baffles. The blast baffle/brake assembly is not shown:

pic3h.jpg


pic5qj.jpg


408can.jpg
</div></div>

Not to poop on your parade....... but with only 3 baffles, that is not going to quiet a 408CT down that much. I would shrink those spacers down and try and get a few more baffles in it. Also, might consider getting some inconel or Ti and making a nice deep dish blast baffle.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

KYS, give me a friggin break.

Its "pooping on his parade" to tell him that three baffles is not going to cut it. It "pooping on his parade" to tell him to cut down his spacers. Its "pooping on his his parade" To tell him his blast baffle is missing....

But, suggesting that he look at:

1. Modern baffle facings. (jeeze that sounds familiar).
2. Modern diffusers.
3. Modern Blast chambers. (Jeeze sounds familiar).
4. Modern Chamber stacking and capacities (jeeze sounds familiar).

Politely asking him why none of those are part of his build, well that right there, that is harping.

The big questions still remain and are evident for the very observations you yourself made. Has he seen a can more modern than 40 years and, if he has, was there "anything that (he) wanted to do but felt (he) could not fashion?"

suppressor-x-ray_FINAL.jpg


1.HTG Eureka 5.56mm
2. HTG Aris 5.56mm
3. HTG Universal .22 cal
4. KAC SR25 7.62mm
5. KAC Navy 9mm
6. Gemtech M4-96D 5.56mm
7. Costal ???
8. SWR Wolverine 5.56mm
9. AAC Scar SD 5.56mm
10. SRT Hurricane 5.56mm
11. Gemtech M4-96C 5.56mm
12. AAC M4-2000 5.56mm or M4-1000 ,M4-2000 07&#8242;models???
13. KAC NT4 5.65mm
14. Gemtech Trinity LID 9mm
15. AAC Evo 9 9mm
16. Gemtech Raptor 3LUG 9mm
17. Brugger &Thomet 9mm

baffle-xray_thumb.jpg


 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Not to poop on your parade....... but with only 3 baffles, that is not going to quiet a 408CT down that much. I would shrink those spacers down and try and get a few more baffles in it. Also, might consider getting some inconel or Ti and making a nice deep dish blast baffle. </div></div>

I guess I wasn't clear; this was just to show the baffle design; the blast baffle will be 17-4 and I will have a minimum of 6 wipes. You are completely correct, my bad for not being clear enough.

Will be starting on the muzzle end this afternoon, timer permitting.

Rolling Thunder, those x-ray views are great, thanks, but in all honesty, I have to pick a design that is in my current skill set; my time at the lathe is also limited by my neck.

The blast baffle design is what I call a "muzzle brake in a can" and is going to be similar to this pic I stole from a member's 5.56mm build over on SilencerTalk:

BlastBaffle.jpg


The brake section threads onto the muzzle and into the larger round blast baffle. The bullet travels through the brake which will end flush with the front of the blast baffle. Gases from the brake will vent through circumferenctial holes in the front of the blast baffle. From there, it's up to the wipes, or silencer baffles, to hush the gases. The stepped design of the silencer baffles created turbulence that a smooth K type baffle would not. I've been racking my brain on some type of monocore baffle, and haven't ruled that out. I've also considered using titianium, and have a good supply of Ti-6Al-4V, but from what I've read, titanium is a a very elastic metal when machined, deforming then yielding, leaving a ragged cut unless the proper lubricant is used in a flood coolant system. Being on disability and a budget, I've got a flood system, but have not set it up yet.

Last, this project is now close to 6 years in the making; I'm not in a hurry; I can make a brake and shoot my rifle just fine. Like my sig line says, some jerk damn near broke my neck in a BJJ demo in 2007, and I'm just now getting back to where I want to live. This is one of my bucket projects, and I'm hoping that I can find enough real machinists and gunsmiths here to throw me a bone when I need it. My rifle was built by Lawton; I "knew" Barney before he passed and he was a helpful, kind gentlemen's gentlemen. It's in one of KLR Industries folding aluminum chassis stocks with a NightForce 5.5-22 X 50mm scope and a Jewell Trigger. I just got 100 rounds of DTC ammo, and along with a cache of brass, bullets, and dies, reamers, and gauges, represents the biggest investment in any single firearm in my possessesion; hell, if I did the math, it probably surpassess the sum of all my others combined, and next to my SA XD45 is undoubtedly the pride of my safe. I have an 1800 meter range, and just discovered one at 2200+ yards. Nobody will be calling me to Afghanistan to pop bad guys, but it's the culmination of two decades of desire since I shot my first 1000 yard match at Pennsylvania and spent untold hours in groundhog fields working on unknown distaance shooting, and working on this keeps my mind off the pain of my injury.

So I'm way past being bothered by a little poop, although I do have my days, and even haters can be helpful without knowing it
wink.gif
. Anyways, I'm looking forward to building this supressor here, and hope I can get some help and guidance when I need it, either knowingly or unknowingly. This is a great community with a lot of awesome information and very helpful people. Thanks again in advance for any help that anyone cares to offer.

 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

No problem, the hope was to show you the spacial staging of the chambers in those pics. They are not uniform.

On the machined steps, yes and no. The most efficient way to stop a gas jet is, as you suggest, slamming it into a perpendicular wall. It is not, however, the right solution for working with high volume gas jetting (high caliber.) The issue is those same gases when essentially dwelling too close to the exit bore have a much higher propensity to be drawn through. As this is at the essence of suppression, it is a problem. What you want is something all together different, especially if your intent is to use fewer, but superior baffles. You want to disrupt those gases but intentionally move them in the most indirect way away from the core to the periphery. All this can be done with rudimentary machining skills, far less than the excellent work I see in your photo above, but you have to know what these baffles look like. Peering inside a modern baffle stack reveals that few serious builders use the smooth K systems (unless they are punching them out, building for small calibers, or just remain clueless) instead they are adding full features to that most important of all facing. Lets go one step further, those same chases gases that immediately exit with the bullet will be traveling in the same path as the projectile. Those same gasses can also be directly impacted by creating off axis baffle axis cuts. Could you do this too? Absolutely you could. Would have a significant effect? Yes it would as those chase gases will enter the next chamber off axis, hitting the next baffle right where you would want. Does that create accuracy issues? No, as it is all post diffuser/primary to the point of having no effective impact on accuracy. Is this referred to as asymmetrical armatures? No it is not. Having said that, these features should be timed, in a three baffle stack at approx. 120. So, where can one see such surface features? By, as I had mentioned, peering down the tube of either of the two most accurate cans around. You will see it immediately, two distinctly different styles of surface features, both with the exact same result. One system chooses off axis bore pathing, the other not. The result they both get is exemplary.

Lastly, monocore systems. Forget it in its entirety. The most important way to maximize suppression is to provide fully featured faces on each baffle. Monocore simply cannot provide access to the face in a way that promotes the most advanced surfaces. Shops first tried monocore in 1983 and realized that, whereas it was much less expensive than machining each baffle and then having to weld them into an armature (highest end cans) they simply would not, could not get it done, especially in the heavier calibers. When one begins to get even close, the required baffles/chamber volume is excessive. Besides, and know this, your spacers should be minimized in their surfaces as well. You want as much heat to migrate directly to the outer envelope (the tube), uninterrupted by any additional walls, liners, spacers, perf pipe, etc. In other words create your chamber armatures with an eye to removing as much of the spacer wall as you feel will support the baffle itself. Also, attend to the facing of the final end cap as well. It is far less important that it have conical dimensionality, what is required is a non linear facing.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Stalking, appreciate it.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Zenbiker, since you're working on a bucket list item, let me offer something to you. When you get all this done you're gonna suffer from mirage after just a few rounds looking through your scope. Give me a shout when you get to that point and I'll send you one of our suppressor covers so you can continue hitting at 1800+

Keep documenting your project here, it's interesting.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zenbiker, since you're working on a bucket list item, let me offer something to you. When you get all this done you're gonna suffer from mirage after just a few rounds looking through your scope. Give me a shout when you get to that point and I'll send you one of our suppressor covers so you can continue hitting at 1800+

Keep documenting your project here, it's interesting.</div></div>
Another reason why I run TAB gear.

Keep up the work, Zenbiker.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Hello, I will just say, always remember safety first. You can do it, finding the right design is going to take time. Good luck
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem, the hope was to show you the spacial staging of the chambers in those pics. They are not uniform.

On the machined steps, yes and no. The most efficient way to stop a gas jet is, as you suggest, slamming it into a perpendicular wall. It is not, however, the right solution for working with high volume gas jetting (high caliber.) The issue is those same gases when essentially dwelling too close to the exit bore have a much higher propensity to be drawn through. As this is at the essence of suppression, it is a problem. What you want is something all together different, especially if your intent is to use fewer, but superior baffles. You want to disrupt those gases but intentionally move them in the most indirect way away from the core to the periphery. All this can be done with rudimentary machining skills, far less than the excellent work I see in your photo above, but you have to know what these baffles look like. Peering inside a modern baffle stack reveals that few serious builders use the smooth K systems (unless they are punching them out, building for small calibers, or just remain clueless) instead they are adding full features to that most important of all facing. Lets go one step further, those same chases gases that immediately exit with the bullet will be traveling in the same path as the projectile. Those same gasses can also be directly impacted by creating off axis baffle axis cuts. Could you do this too? Absolutely you could. Would have a significant effect? Yes it would as those chase gases will enter the next chamber off axis, hitting the next baffle right where you would want. Does that create accuracy issues? No, as it is all post diffuser/primary to the point of having no effective impact on accuracy. Is this referred to as asymmetrical armatures? No it is not. Having said that, these features should be timed, in a three baffle stack at approx. 120. So, where can one see such surface features? By, as I had mentioned, peering down the tube of either of the two most accurate cans around. You will see it immediately, two distinctly different styles of surface features, both with the exact same result. One system chooses off axis bore pathing, the other not. The result they both get is exemplary.

Lastly, monocore systems. Forget it in its entirety. The most important way to maximize suppression is to provide fully featured faces on each baffle. Monocore simply cannot provide access to the face in a way that promotes the most advanced surfaces. Shops first tried monocore in 1983 and realized that, whereas it was much less expensive than machining each baffle and then having to weld them into an armature (highest end cans) they simply would not, could not get it done, especially in the heavier calibers. When one begins to get even close, the required baffles/chamber volume is excessive. Besides, and know this, your spacers should be minimized in their surfaces as well. You want as much heat to migrate directly to the outer envelope (the tube), uninterrupted by any additional walls, liners, spacers, perf pipe, etc. In other words create your chamber armatures with an eye to removing as much of the spacer wall as you feel will support the baffle itself. Also, attend to the facing of the final end cap as well. It is far less important that it have conical dimensionality, what is required is a non linear facing.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Stalking, appreciate it.
</div></div>

RT: OK, I follow you. I knew K baffles were out for this project. Now, going to your statement about peering down the tubes of the "two most accurate cans around", what are those cans considered to be (or is this a debatable question?)

I had been backward engineering from OPS-INC and QMS; I've heard OPS-INC had 'reliability problems', but of what type Ive never been able to find out. I have a Turbodyne AAC; maybe I need to stick a borescope down that monster. Heck, I'd use <span style="font-style: italic">it </span> if it didn't weigh 9 lbs.

You've given me a lot to think about. As I said, I had chosen the step baffle design from another Hide member who seemed very satisfied with the results on his Chey Tac, but I did not like the location of the vent holes on the edges of the baffled - I am worried gas cutting would eventually chew a hole in the outer tube. Time to have another look at the drawing board.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zenbiker, since you're working on a bucket list item, let me offer something to you. When you get all this done you're gonna suffer from mirage after just a few rounds looking through your scope. Give me a shout when you get to that point and I'll send you one of our suppressor covers so you can continue hitting at 1800+

Keep documenting your project here, it's interesting. </div></div>

Thanks, T. Oh, BTW, I'd like to do some business with you before I finish this; I need to nix the mirage on a couple of other cans. I knew there was someone here that made covers; thanks for jumping in.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AGBM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello, I will just say, always remember safety first. You can do it, finding the right design is going to take time. Good luck </div></div>

So it would seem!
grin.gif
What an awful chore, designing and making my own suppressor
laugh.gif
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

My pleasure Zen, if you have any questions about the different models feel free to contact me any time and I'll be happy to help you out.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zevdogs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't use that huge tube.... Get a better size from hear

https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=902&step=2&top_cat=1 </div></div>


Thanks, Zev, I'm adding them to my metal suppliers folder and just ordered a piece of 17-4 X 1.25"OD rod for some proof of concept work that will also double as a muzzle brake until I get the suppressor better designed and made.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Two of the finest baffles in production today. All able to be seen by hand, all published on line.

P1010366.jpg


VVCB.jpg


On the point you raised about secondary vents. This is a complicated issue but first lets cover your concerns about gas cutting the envelope. It should not. Having said that these very same ports can, depending on design, provide the following:

1. Pressure staging to allow for some designs to allow for the proper functioning of gas operated actions.

2. Purging to allow for debris to be efficiently moved forward and out of the suppressor. Not designed for leading, the lower pressure edges can move propellant debris to more forward more efficiently. Centerfire cans by nature do not need to come apart, having said that they do need servicing although rarely. Forward purging greatly reduces those intervals.

3. Precharging the forward chambers to allow for a reduction of pop caused by pre-projectile atmosphere (O2 rich).

4. Faster environmental purge.

and more.

You may not need to attend to any of the above. I certainly would not concentrate on it now.

Enjoy the following:

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=77913

Remember there is a huge difference between say a machine gun can and a precision rifle can.

Just trying to help here...

 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

for simplicity sake a series of cones works great and the only stand by 60 deg isin't even neccesary , look at the Shark suppressor the cones are shallow but their is alot of them and it's a very effecient can , the AAC cyclone is a very effecient suppressor in 30 cal and it's just a series of cones (7-8) spaced evenly , no elaborate blast baffles or mouse holes , even the Surefire and Ops Inc cans are a very simple desgine.

If you use a break in the mount that's going to go a long way in peeling the gasses off of the bore line and onto the baffle face/wall

I honestly think if you build the can with a break mount like your talking in a 3" blast chamber followed by 8-9 , 45 degree cones at 1" spacings the noise issue you are gonna be dealing with is just the sonic crack.

once you suppress the gasses so far all you are realy doing is changing the tone the SPL of the bullet flight is going to be the loudest issue.

Look at the old 7.62SD can from AAC , it was ear safe on a 308 and said to be on a 300 win as well , it only had a flat blast baffle and 3 cones!!
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

This has gotten me moving on my rimfire suppressor project. Thanks for the motivation and link to a one stop shop on here.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

Here is a few cut open suppressors from some of the better known well respected cans on the market

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">AAC: M4-2000 (latest model)</span></span>
M4-2000new.jpg


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">AAC M4-2000 (earlier model but was ear safe)</span></span>
inside.jpg


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Surefire (nore sure what model but 223)</span></span>
sf2.jpg
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">AAC Titan core (well respected 338 can)</span></span>
aactitan.jpg


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">AAC 762SD (earlier model)</span></span>
762SDright.jpg
 
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Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Just an all around good idea</span></span>
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Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Just an all around good idea</span></span>
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This is where my mind has been taking me since I opened this can of worms, and perhaps I have been overthinking the blast chamber. This schematic blast chamber looks like a very common brake design (like OPS-INC) behind a stack of baffles.

As I understand suppressor design, key design features are:

1) Volume: there is probably a formula for the cartridge it will be used for
2) Creation of turbulence to slow the gasses down and keep them behind and away from the projectile by using surface features of the baffles or off-angle staggering of the baffles

I like this design and am going to draw up what's been floating around in my head for critique. Give me a few days, I'm not an engineer, but I think I can come up with something fairly accurate to what I'm considering. Thanks for the great pics, JJones, I truly appreciate your help and guidance.
 
Re: Zenbiker's .408 Suppressor Build

BTW, On extruded 316, what would you consider to be safe minimum outer wall thickness? 0.100"? Will the minor diameter of the threads hold up against the blast?
 
Project is well underway. Trying to find the member who sold me the 5 port brake for my Chey Tac; would like to buy another to serve as the blast baffle/ brake for this build.