Minox 1-8 vs March 1-10 shorty vs Vortex 1-10

TacosGigante · Aug 14, 2021

Narrowing the field on a new scope. I will either put it on a 16” 308 AR-10 or an 18” 5.56 DMR. I currently have a Minox 1-8 but need to add another scope to the stable. I like the Minox ok and could get another, but it is heavy, an older design, and still expensive. I am also interested in the March 1-10 and the Vortex 1-10.

I’m looking for a scope that is either better at medium-long range than the Minox (better glass and/or parallax/turrets/better eye box at high mag) or better at close-medium range than the Minox (which would include lighter weight/red dot/eye box at low mag). Otherwise I could just buy a new Minox.

It seems like the weakness of the Vortex is the lack of parallax adjustment and maybe so-so glass and the weakness of the March is expense and wonky mounts.

Does anyone have experience with the Minox and at least one of the other scopes? How do they stack up?
Thanks

BytorJr · Aug 15, 2021

Here's my 0.01. I have the Vortex. MOA (by accident the wrong one was shipped and I didn't catch it...but in reality it's ok because the BDC is awesome on that scope). This turned out for the best actually. It's a pretty bad-ass BDC with wind dots, etc.

1) Daylight bright "dot" at 1x. I mean Aimpoint bright.

2) Decent glass though for some reason my Bushnell 1-8.5x seems more clear to me. But that was only last week. I don't recall it being that way previously.

3) For me, the eyebox is VERY sensitive. At 10x, I really struggle to get behind it. I've got my scope mounted almost as far forward as possible. Not really interested in fiddling with it right now. In fact the scope in the mount has the back ring about 3/4" from the turret which is about as far forward as I'm comfortable with. For some reason I don't like mounting right next to the turret. I could probably move it up 1/4 " and it'd be much better at 10x. The eyebox gets a lot more sensitive after 8x for me as well.

4) I'd be interested in what other Vortex owners have experienced on the eyebox.

ormandj · Aug 15, 2021

Agreed on eyebox being tight at 10x, but that’s the trade off you’re making on a do-it-all scope like this. I sold my G3 Vortex for other reasons, but it’s something to keep in mind. I also was not very impressed with the glass, but yet again, I think this is one of the tradeoffs made for this scope. I don’t think I’d do a 1-10x again, I’d rather have more magnification for longer shots and a offset dot for the closer stuff - but I don’t think this is unique to the Vortex, though I haven’t had time behind the March.

A lot like Swiss Army knives, I found the compromise (optical quality/eyebox at higher magnifications/10x max magnification) to be a compromise I didn’t want to make. I’d rather have a higher magnification scope with better optical quality but a little bit larger/heavier, and add an offset. It’s definitely a tradeoff, though. It all depends on your eyes and what you plan to use the rifle for.

TacosGigante · Aug 15, 2021

Yeah, the 8x and even more so 10x LPVOs really seem like a compromise for when you can only own one scope. I have also considered a 3-15/18 but the weight and added complexity of an offset red dot makes me a little leary.

charnicus · Aug 15, 2021

TacosGigante said:
Yeah, the 8x and even more so 10x LPVOs really seem like a compromise for when you can only own one scope. I have also considered a 3-15/18 but the weight and added complexity of an offset red dot makes me a little leary.

Mk6 / Mk5 come in not too far away weight wise. Seems like a lot of guys end up with offset red dots anyway.

With either scope I’d probably try to mount them as low as good sight picture would allow and run something like an RMR or DP at 90*.

TacosGigante · Aug 15, 2021

charnicus said:
Mk6 / Mk5 come in not too far away weight wise. Seems like a lot of guys end up with offset red dots anyway.

With either scope I’d probably try to mount them as low as good sight picture would allow and run something like an RMR or DP at 90*.

I have a MK6 on an LMT 6.5. It would also work well on the 18" 5.56 but then I would need a new MPVO for the LMT.

charnicus · Aug 15, 2021

Or something with mo mag

TacosGigante · Aug 15, 2021

charnicus said:
Or something with mo mag

How much is too much though? I get that the jump from 3x to 4/5x on the low end isn't that big a deal, especially if you are running an offset RDS, but it is something, and there is the extra weight.

charnicus · Aug 15, 2021

I’d say move the mk6 to the 18” 5.56 and do a something to 20ish on the 6.5.

carbonbased · Aug 15, 2021

Eyebox at 10x on my Gen III Vortex is tight-ish. I bought it for the 1-6x, however, with 7-10x being the cherry on top.

koshkin · Aug 15, 2021

There are no miracles in this world. A 10x scope with a 24mm objective has a 2.4mm exit pupil. It will be a little tight.

It is there for when you have a reasonably comfortable shooting position and time.

ILya

TacosGigante · Aug 16, 2021

koshkin said:
There are no miracles in this world. A 10x scope with a 24mm objective has a 2.4mm exit pupil. It will be a little tight.

It is there for when you have a reasonably comfortable shooting position and time.

ILya

Thanks Ilya,

I’m sure you have answered this elsewhere but why have people standardized on the 24mm lens for a 1-8/10/higher optic? If higher mag ratios become a thing should we expect larger objective lenses?

TacticalPlinker · Aug 16, 2021

For whats its worth. These are my observations using the G3 1-10.

Avoid anything higher than 1.50 mounts. Once you get over 7x , a solid cheek weld becomes necessary. I find the 1.70"+ mounts cause inconsistencies in the centering of the eye and makes a repeatable site picture very difficult at first.

This will turn people off to the Vortex G3 and they will blame the scope. Its the mount height...

If you intend to be using this scope as part of a DMR platform, I highly recommend placing an RMR at the 12 o'clock .

The benefits of running an RMR with a 1.50" mount are several. You have access to fast off axis shots if you need it (roll over prone-urban prone) super easy with the RDS up high.

Another is close range speed if you're dialed higher than 6x while laying prone for pushing out your shots.

At 1.50" high , its still very natural feeling to raise your head to align with the RMR for prone snap shooting if required. The situation calls the shots , not when we're ready. Off a bipod, RMR is fast.

I observed a student running my 18" doing drills of varying distances. While prone , he had a very easy and fast head position adjustment to redirect shots from 300 to 25 yards without touching the mag ring or breaking his low concealment position. Like butta...

All things being said, I'm a big fan of this build for a 18" 5.56 platform.

BTW - it takes me no time at all to switch to full on "Fuk-You Mode" with my Eotech sitting in my pack

TP....

koshkin · Aug 16, 2021

TacosGigante said:
Thanks Ilya,

I’m sure you have answered this elsewhere but why have people standardized on the 24mm lens for a 1-8/10/higher optic? If higher mag ratios become a thing should we expect larger objective lenses?

It is hard to make a scope that goes to 1x and has a larger objective together with a wide FOV without blowing up the size and weight considerably. As time goes on we will se a greater variety, but the objecctives will mostly stay in the 20 to 30mm objective range.

ILya

koshkin · Aug 16, 2021

TacticalPlinker said:
For whats its worth. These are my observations using the G3 1-10.

Avoid anything higher than 1.50 mounts. Once you get over 7x , a solid cheek weld becomes necessary. I find the 1.70"+ mounts cause inconsistencies in the centering of the eye and makes a repeatable site picture very difficult at first.

This will turn people off to the Vortex G3 and they will blame the scope. Its the mount height...

If you intend to be using this scope as part of a DMR platform, I highly recommend placing an RMR at the 12 o'clock .

The benefits of running an RMR with a 1.50" mount are several. You have access to fast off axis shots if you need it (roll over prone-urban prone) super easy with the RDS up high.

Another is close range speed if you're dialed higher than 6x while laying prone for pushing out your shots.

At 1.50" high , its still very natural feeling to raise your head to align with the RMR for prone snap shooting if required. The situation calls the shots , not when we're ready. Off a bipod, RMR is fast.

I observed a student running my 18" doing drills of varying distances. While prone , he had a very easy and fast head position adjustment to redirect shots from 300 to 25 yards without touching the mag ring or breaking his low concealment position. Like butta...

All things being said, I'm a big fan of this build for a 18" 5.56 platform.

BTW - it takes me no time at all to switch to full on "Fuk-You Mode" with my Eotech sitting in my pack

TP....

That's a nice setup and a very coherent explanation of your reasoning.

ILya

TacosGigante · Aug 16, 2021

koshkin said:
It is hard to make a scope that goes to 1x and has a larger objective together with a wide FOV without blowing up the size and weight considerably. As time goes on we will se a greater variety, but the objecctives will mostly stay in the 20 to 30mm objective range.

ILya

Thank you for the info!

TacosGigante · Aug 16, 2021

TacticalPlinker said:
For whats its worth. These are my observations using the G3 1-10.

Avoid anything higher than 1.50 mounts. Once you get over 7x , a solid cheek weld becomes necessary. I find the 1.70"+ mounts cause inconsistencies in the centering of the eye and makes a repeatable site picture very difficult at first.

This will turn people off to the Vortex G3 and they will blame the scope. Its the mount height...

If you intend to be using this scope as part of a DMR platform, I highly recommend placing an RMR at the 12 o'clock .

The benefits of running an RMR with a 1.50" mount are several. You have access to fast off axis shots if you need it (roll over prone-urban prone) super easy with the RDS up high.

Another is close range speed if you're dialed higher than 6x while laying prone for pushing out your shots.

At 1.50" high , its still very natural feeling to raise your head to align with the RMR for prone snap shooting if required. The situation calls the shots , not when we're ready. Off a bipod, RMR is fast.

I observed a student running my 18" doing drills of varying distances. While prone , he had a very easy and fast head position adjustment to redirect shots from 300 to 25 yards without touching the mag ring or breaking his low concealment position. Like butta...

All things being said, I'm a big fan of this build for a 18" 5.56 platform.

BTW - it takes me no time at all to switch to full on "Fuk-You Mode" with my Eotech sitting in my pack

TP....

This sounds great, but I guess I have to ask: if you are going to run an RDS anyway do you need a 1x or would it make more sense to run a 3/4x and get even more magnification on the upper end?

TacticalPlinker · Aug 16, 2021

TacosGigante said:
This sounds great, but I guess I have to ask: if you are going to run an RDS anyway do you need a 1x or would it make more sense to run a 3/4x and get even more magnification on the upper end?

So I'm 53 with craptastic vision past 75y. For me its magnified optics as the primary and RMR for everything mentioned in my post. For me an EOTech is used in instances where training inside of 100 is the norm and speed of movement gets nutty.
Magnified optics with a usable diopter is a benefit even at 1x. The clarity gained is almost like shooting with prescription glasses.

So to answer your question, I wouldn't give up the speed at 1x in the Gen3.

TacosGigante · Aug 16, 2021

TacticalPlinker said:
So I'm 53 with craptastic vision past 75y. For me its magnified optics as the primary and RMR for everything mentioned in my post. For me an EOTech is used in instances where training inside of 100 is the norm and speed of movement gets nutty.
Magnified optics with a usable diopter is a benefit even at 1x. The clarity gained is almost like shooting with prescription glasses.

So to answer your question, I wouldn't give up the speed at 1x in the Gen3.

Makes all the sense on earth.

Zane1844 · Aug 16, 2021

BytorJr said:
Here's my 0.01. I have the Vortex. MOA (by accident the wrong one was shipped and I didn't catch it...but in reality it's ok because the BDC is awesome on that scope). This turned out for the best actually. It's a pretty bad-ass BDC with wind dots, etc.

1) Daylight bright "dot" at 1x. I mean Aimpoint bright.

2) Decent glass though for some reason my Bushnell 1-8.5x seems more clear to me. But that was only last week. I don't recall it being that way previously.

3) For me, the eyebox is VERY sensitive. At 10x, I really struggle to get behind it. I've got my scope mounted almost as far forward as possible. Not really interested in fiddling with it right now. In fact the scope in the mount has the back ring about 3/4" from the turret which is about as far forward as I'm comfortable with. For some reason I don't like mounting right next to the turret. I could probably move it up 1/4 " and it'd be much better at 10x. The eyebox gets a lot more sensitive after 8x for me as well.

4) I'd be interested in what other Vortex owners have experienced on the eyebox.

This is pretty much how I feel about the Gen3 as well.

The BDC works great, I’ve tested it out to 550yds and got hits on reasonably sized targets. I also like that it has 50yd increments, I feel like this is an excellent, but overlooked feature.

The 1x is my favorite part of this scope. It’s feels like a red dot, plus I don’t even need the illumination on to use it.

I agree with the other posters: past 6x the eye box gets tight and the glass gets “dimmer”, for a lack of a better word. I don’t often shoot with it past 7x.

BytorJr · Aug 16, 2021

Zane1844 said:
This is pretty much how I feel about the Gen3 as well.

The BDC works great, I’ve tested it out to 550yds and got hits on reasonably sized targets. I also like that it has 50yd increments, I feel like this is an excellent, but overlooked feature.

The 1x is my favorite part of this scope. It’s feels like a red dot, plus I don’t even need the illumination on to use it.

I agree with the other posters: past 6x the eye box gets tight and the glass gets “dimmer”, for a lack of a better word. I don’t often shoot with it past 7x.

Good point about the dimming of the glass, which is exactly why the Bushy 1-8.5x seems more clear on max magnification. I think Eurooptic sold the last of those...hopefully not dirt cheap. I got my from Doug@cameralandny and I SHOULD have bought two. Not daylight bright, BUT...damn nice glass. No frills reticle though.

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