AX still wins the looks competition
- Thread starter Peter Laurvick
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AX still wins the looks competition
They say beauty is in the eye of the beer holder....
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The AT-Xhas a lot more parts. Doesn’t mean it will be an issue, but more parts is more parts to come loose, keep up with, lose, etc.
More parts means more tools as they aren’t the same size bolts.
The action can be unbolted. That means is susceptible to user error when reassembling.
The comp trigger seems to be ironed out. But again, many more adjustments and parts to the comp trigger than the OEM.
The chassis is bare aluminum. Which means cold. Along with some distinct metallic sounds of it hits something the wrong way. Sound is never good if you’re not looking to be heard.
The forend is much longer than needed for a non comp rifle. Depending on situation, this can be a hinderance.
The AT-X has a lot more parts. Doesn’t mean it will be an issue, but more parts is more parts to come loose, keep up with, lose, etc.
Actually, the AT-X has fewer parts vs the AT and other AX series rifles
More parts means more tools as they aren’t the same size bolts.
The current production specification for the AT-X utilizes a 4mm hex key for all the major components, adjustments, rails, and barrel change.
The action can be unbolted. That means is susceptible to user error when reassembling.
The side clearance between the action and the upper chassis is minimal and all but eliminates the possibility of installing the action incorrectly.
The comp trigger seems to be ironed out. But again, many more adjustments and parts to the comp trigger than the OEM.
The adjustments on the AT-X trigger are virtually identical to those on the AI triggers. Accessibility to the adjustments is different between the two.
The chassis is bare aluminum. Which means cold. Along with some distinct metallic sounds of it hits something the wrong way. Sound is never good if you’re not looking to be heard.
All modern sniper rifles are metal. This is driven by end user requirements that virtually eliminate the ability to use plastics and composites within expected cost constraints. We have much better gloves today than we did 35 years ago and I have couple of pairs expressly designed for shooting. But, yes. I would agree that metal is less friendly than wood or plastics in extreme heat and cold.
The forend is much longer than needed for a non comp rifle. Depending on situation, this can be a hindrance.
The AT-X is certainly not a compactable as the AX/SR series which can be fitted into a carry on bag or smaller along with extra mags, suppressor, etc. With a hinge installed, the AT-X can be nicely fitted into the Pelican Air 1615 case along with a tripod, spotting scope, shooting bags, mags, ammo, etc.
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My AT-X requires 5 different torques and 4 different bits.
I’m not sure how anyone would say it’s less tools and less parts. If you’re counting plastic skins, sure. But let’s not get into nit picking like that.
To access the trigger I have to take off the buttstock and the bottom metal. On the AT it’s just the plastic grips.
And again, there is user error. If I don’t get the grips perfectly right, not a huge deal. If I get the bottom metal loose, now there can be issues. As well as a wobbling butt. You also need a long bit with a T-handle to get into the bottom metal to break the screws loose.
These are just my opinions and love the AT-X. But I’m still grabbing an AT for work and such.
Regarding the number of tools, I believe he said the current version of AT-X uses the 4mm allen wrench for all major parts/adjustments.
If I had to guess, it was changed in later versions due to user feedback on the V1 models.
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Also, FWIW, I had three of the original comp triggers fail.
Two of them I sent back to the designer/manufacturer who put springs in and adjusted them on his jig. Upon return, they both failed immediately on 3 different rifles.
The third I took out of the package and only adjusted the first stage out. As directed over the phone via designer. Didn’t touch anything else. It failed at about 500 rounds.
My current X trigger I haven’t touched. Left at the 2 stage settings from factory. It feels awesome and seems like it’s going to be fine.
But, as far as I’m concerned, the jury is still out as I had failures on triggers I didn’t even touch.
Two of them I sent back to the designer/manufacturer who put springs in and adjusted them on his jig. Upon return, they both failed immediately on 3 different rifles.
The third I took out of the package and only adjusted the first stage out. As directed over the phone via designer. Didn’t touch anything else. It failed at about 500 rounds.
My current X trigger I haven’t touched. Left at the 2 stage settings from factory. It feels awesome and seems like it’s going to be fine.
But, as far as I’m concerned, the jury is still out as I had failures on triggers I didn’t even touch.
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Oh I know. But I’m comparing my X. Unless they want to upgrade it.
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To be clear, this is just a comparison.
The AT-X is probably my favorite rifle of any I’ve owned.
The AT-X is probably my favorite rifle of any I’ve owned.
You mentioned not getting nitpicky in one of your latest posts...I think you're the one actually beginning to act that way.
Also, you may be comparing your AT-X, but Scott did caveat his comment to specifically say "current version". He can't change the past, and if I were AI I certainly wouldn't replace the V1's. They were delivered as advertised.
*it’d fit in a 1615 case if the hinges actually started shipping in the US. 
*If production run 2 shipped and we had AT-Xs to put in a 1615 air case.*it’d fit in a 1615 case if the hinges actually started shipping in the US.
Let's see if they do ship this month.*If production run 2 shipped and we had AT-Xs to put in a 1615 air case.
EO had a couple red ATX this morning. I saw them, took my kids to school, got home to order and they were gone.
You wouldn’t need to replace the V1, just send all screws necessary as 4mm screws. User can replace if desired.
Yeah I think it would be very nice for them to at least make it possible to order some of these upgraded fasteners. I understand the rationale for improving the product, but I also don't really feel like AI particularly cares about the early adopters at the moment.
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Is the butt stock a 4mm? If not, still screws that are different. There’s still several screws you have to torque back at different torque values.
And all my points are still valid. You’re picking one single thing to pick back on.
The trigger is still the same trigger that has had plenty of documented failures even when the manufacturer adjusts it (I’m not the only one)
This has to be the first time a company and others push back on someone saying they have the best field rifle in the world.
Not to mention, literally calling it a competition rifle and then pushing back when someone points out the differences in the non competition rifles.
At a minimum if I were to use the X on duty, I would drop an OEM trigger in it, and somehow store an Allen key that works with the buttstock (if it’s still a 5mm). Have to be able to get to the trigger.
And they can push back all they want with the “current” rifles that pretty much no one has. Almost all, or all the rifles in people’s hands are as described above.
Maybe they should consider taking compliments to their rifles in stride and not picking back and forth. That’s how you end up with push back.
This whole “we are right and fuck you” combined with missing every single release timeline is going to do nothing but cause issues.
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Ya, I was asking about the latest.
Mustve been using up old stock, surprised they did throw in some BSF ones for good measure.
Including size:Metric:1.5mm, 2.0mm, 2.5mm, 3.0mm, 4.0mm, 5.0mm, 6.0mm, 8.0mm;SAE:5/64”, 3/32”, 7/64”, 1/8”, 9/64”, 5/32”, 3/16”, 7/32”, 1/4”
I don't recall AI ever saying "we're right and fuck you", do you? Please quote that if you can.
As for "pick back on", I think your posts demonstrate who is being nitpicky fairly well. It smacks more of "I'm right, you're wrong" mindset/argument; the ultimate sign of someone that isn't willing to discuss things in the broader view of what has happened, why, and how they are now. But hey, if you just want to argue, that's fine. It just won't be with me.
Think I’m going to get mine done up like this :
Either just like that or krytek in that style
My Gen 1 has 1200+ rounds of 65 though it with zero issues.
Looks like my Red Gen 2 has showed up @ EuroOptic...
Time for a road trip!
Time for a road trip!
Ahhh...gotcha. I didn't make the connection.
That being said, some people are passionate about their hobbies (well, actually we all are, but some are more than others).
My bone of contention is the expectations some have, that the AT-X was not what they ordered. Which is patently false. Every item discussed, screw heads sizes, etc. was exactly as what was displayed with the prototype rifles, when pre-orders were allowed. Everyone with a V1 got exactly what was offered at the time. None of those items that have been updated, to my knowledge, have any impact on accuracy or reliability. The changes may have enhanced some aspects of useability, but that is a different issue than saying (or implying) they didn't get, or won't be offered for free, the latest changes/mods because they were early adopters.
Would I like some of the newer changes? Sure. But bottom line is, I got what I ordered: A pretty close copy of the prototype rifles that were displayed on youtube, and one that I shot and handled right after their product announcement.
TBH, I didn't even notice the different screw head sizes on the prototype. And even if I had, I still would have ordered one.
But the bottom line is: A person's expectations are not the responsibility of the product seller, especially when the seller delivered what was offered for sale. That fact that things changed later, based on user feedback, is not even part of that basic equation.
JMCTW....
I don't remember any discussion of the fact that every single screw in the AT-X would have a different size, so this was not part of my expectations when ordering.
This is true in a very narrow sense, but doesn't lead to warm feelings from the customer. What I've seen is that AI is a company that used to build reliable products, has slipped somewhat, and really doesn't care about customer service. The AT-X is still a great rifle, but it wouldn't take much effort for them to improve the experience of their early customers, and they don't seem to care.
Pretty sure Scott (the vp of AI) has posted his contact info here for anyone to give him a call.
Give him a call and come back and tell us they don’t care.
MarinePMi is 100% correct in his last post.
Love is working through the flaws together.
In all seriousness, my only issue has been not getting the accessories quick enough. This close to just buying the AXSR AICS for the adjustable rear and selling the AT-X stock with the front end.
In all seriousness, my only issue has been not getting the accessories quick enough. This close to just buying the AXSR AICS for the adjustable rear and selling the AT-X stock with the front end.
I guess I'd ask; What is unreliable about the AT-X? Or are you saying their CS has become unreliable? Just trying to understand what you're saying.
+1. Still awaiting my DE from last April. I'm about 4hrs from Euro, tempting just to drive up when it arrives...
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The feeding is unreliable, as a system.
As for the customer service, the lack of upgrade paths for the screws or toolless adjustment is suboptimal. I’m not saying it needs to be free, but there probably should be something other than buying a new rifle.
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Yea. This isn’t like a pre-14 AX where it was updated after quite a while being released.
This was, and let’s just call it what it is, not beta tested properly. Or if it was, it was by “yes” people.
Someone should have been screaming from the rooftops about needing 4 different bits to disassemble.
The whole 1.25” barrel not working with the long rail would he fine, if the short rail would reach the rear most screw. But it doesn’t. This is a “competition rifle” and most will be using the rail as a handguard more so than an nvg rail. So, either make the 1.25 fit with the long rail or make the short rail useable on all the mounting points.
It’s not like there aren’t a ton of people running straight barrels. Hence tuners and other such things are being made to accommodate them.
These are all things I was able to figure out within two weeks of receiving my rifle.
AI’s answer is “you should use weights.” Basically not listening to what the industry wants and telling them what they should do.
Now, I’m perfectly happy with my rifle and I don’t expect anything free.
But, let’s also call a spade a spade. When you release a v2 and v3 within a year of announcement (and less than a year of shipping), that’s not just “upgrades”. That fixes for things when you didn’t have the rifle in the right hands for testing.
And when you make changes that fast, you should probably have a discounted upgrade plan for early adopters of the non refined rifles.
And you should also probably have the folder available at the time of original release.
Again, I like my rifle. This is straight forward honest feedback.
Spoke with Scott on Monday, he gave me a pretty good explanation... even though according to you it wasn't needed.
He immediately addressed my magazine issues, and I'm holding new ones in my hand delivered today.
Thanks @Scott Seigmund
He immediately addressed my magazine issues, and I'm holding new ones in my hand delivered today.
Thanks @Scott Seigmund
Yeah I was a little surprised that there were several different screw sizes when taking mine apart but not the end of the world. Kind of makes it pointless having a 4mm hex key hidden in the stock if you also need 3mm and 2.5. But at the end of the day I got the AXSR stock so y’all go be poor somewhere else! 
Real talk though, I just use one of those multiple hex holders like Deers pier posted above. Plus my Fix it sticks has them all as well and that goes everywhere with me.
Real talk though, I just use one of those multiple hex holders like Deers pier posted above. Plus my Fix it sticks has them all as well and that goes everywhere with me.
I think we're just going to have to disagree on this point. I work in R&D and rapid technology insertion into active military operations that never stop (24/7). These days, with CNC machining, additive manufacturing and near immediate communications/feedback, the velocity of technology growth (from concept or feedback) to implementation to the end user, is lightspeed; pretty much weeks or days instead of months or years.
V2, V3, etc. are happening much faster these days...especially if the producer is listening. These rapid changes are a good thing, not something to be seen as a defect or faulty system engineering. Look how many times your phone apps update. Same same.
Your other points are valid discussion points/questions, but I don't think they're are valid demands (just my opinion) that should be expected.
But, that's JMTCW...
Gotta sell new rifles to
People that already bought somehow
There are always going to be people who object to any criticism, valid or not, of their favorite "baby" and tend to respond with aggressive defensiveness if confronted with any issues on it.
I worked in fairly high tech mil equip acquisition and test programs and telecom core network infrastructure equipment. I'm blissfully retired now and grateful to be out of that crap.
There is, IME, always going to be push to cut back testing tasks....IME, always. Its either going to be the sales guys who are always anxious to sell the next best thing...even if its just vaporware....and raise hell if the product is not GA'd and available to help them make their bookings and sales goals.
And then there are the finance people who just see test as mo' money being spent with no revenue from that particular product coming in.
Then there are the designers/developers....and yeah, to them its def their "baby" and how dare you think it needs extensive testing and a test schedule that allows for test failures/revisions/retest.
OT&E (user beta testing in other worlds) is often the first thing to be cut back with unfortunate results...again, IME.
The only people who really want extensive, rigorous, complete testing is the CS folks as its to them that the shit will roll downhill when an immature and insufficiently tested product is pushed too fast to the field.
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I’m not making any demands. But at the same time, don’t dismiss shit like AI is when there are hundreds of rifles that have features that are of concern to buyers. As literally almost the only way to get one of these rifles is to buy it on the used market. Which, in that case, the consumer needs to know the differences. Which is what I was explaining to another user when AI and you decided to point out minute details.
And if these were machining process updates, I’d agree. That’s not what this is, at all.
It’s literally “shit, the rifle is a pain in the ass to take apart” “shit, why do we have 4 different screw types” “shit, people want tool less”.
That’s all stuff that should easily be noted and passed on by anyone handling a rifle who is giving an honest evaluation.
Also, phone apps don’t charge another $5k for the update. So, that’s not a fair comparison.
Again, these aren’t process upgrades. These are not things that weren’t available 18 months ago.
These are literally just changes that make the v3 on par with mdt, mpa, xlr, etc etc.
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To be fair, I was assuming all AI’s were the same as the 20 or so I’ve handled or owned.
Turns out, they all don’t do the same thing. I.E. they have some tolerances.
And Scott even said no one could agree on what/how the mag stopping came about or decided on. Yet another discrepancy.
Also, FWIW, the AX’s I have here don’t have feeding issues with the exact same mags the AT-X has feeding issues with.
Which means, something is different. By design or by tolerances, it’s different.
Which is perfectly fine. But the condescending Mark Larue esque replies don’t help.
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Again, still my favorite rifle.
So let’s not confuse basic criticism for not liking the product.
So let’s not confuse basic criticism for not liking the product.
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