Navigation with AM radio?

[TurboTrout]

I was thinking to myself today, we have all this stuff to jam GPS and other sorts of navigation, but what about AM?

Yeah not as precise, but based on the range and known locations and sheer number of stations, one could navigate pretty well off AM

Maybe raspberry pi a quasi ADF, have it sweep known frequencies with known lat/lon?

 

[eflyguy]

Welcome to VOR, which has been around since the 1940's (although being steadily decommissioned)..

 

[TurboTrout]

Welcome to VOR, which has been around since the 1940's (although being steadily decommissioned)..

Density wise VOR is nothing compared to AM radio.

I was also thinking land nav in a more urban or forest area, I wonder if using AM radio would work better

 

[diverdon]

Am signals don't encode time as GPS signals do. Much less useful.

 

[Do-nothing]

I know there was a marine navigation system--I think it was called something like LORAN??? I know It worked off of radio signals. Watched a number of skippers us it. Don't know why something like that couldn't work on land.

 

[eflyguy]

I know there was a marine navigation system--I think it was called something like LORAN??? I know It worked off of radio signals. Watched a number of skippers us it. Don't know why something like that couldn't work on land.

LORAN was officially decommissioned in 2010.

 

[TurboTrout]

Am signals don't encode time as GPS signals do. Much less useful.

True, however with how the gov likes to screw with GPS, I could picture a few different situations where they’d just turn it off stateside

Where as boring AM radio reminds me of this

 

[diverdon]

Indeed the Pentagon controls gps. If I needed an alternative ide get a glonass reciever.

 

[iceng]

For when you absolutely have to stay off the grid with no electronics, or invade spain. Or whatever. Im not gonna judge you

 

[BJames]

What you’re looking for is an ADF (Automatic Direction Finding) receiver, it was pre loran and vor, still works. Pretty much receives and then provides a bearing to/from a MF/LF frequency. To my knowledge all the ground based transmitters, NDB’s have been decommissioned in the lower 48, we still have them in AK, with instrument approaches as well.

When I was in flight school we built our own NDB approaches to the local AM 750 tower just to practice that stuff locally. I have no idea if there is a hand held version for your land nav use.

 

[iceng]

Aircraft Automatic Direction Finder (ADF)

FAA-based aircraft maintenance blog for AMT students and pros. Covers systems, inspections, certification prep, tech updates, and best practices.

www.aircraftsystemstech.com

Wow.. the more you know... You people are a wealth of knowledge.

 

[SBRSarge]

I remember flying around S/E Michigan listening to 560Am, Honey radio, playing 50s and 60s gold rock hits. Ahhh, the good old(ies) days!

 

[TurboTrout]

What you’re looking for is an ADF (Automatic Direction Finding) receiver, it was pre loran and vor, still works. Pretty much receives and then provides a bearing to/from a MF/LF frequency. To my knowledge all the ground based transmitters, NDB’s have been decommissioned in the lower 48, we still have them in AK, with instrument approaches as well.

When I was in flight school we built our own NDB approaches to the local AM 750 tower just to practice that stuff locally. I have no idea if there is a hand held version for your land nav use.

Oh for sure, shot more than a few NDB approaches myself

I was thinking more a simple box that did all the work for you vs having to manual plot between bearings to station

 

[TurboTrout]

Aircraft Automatic Direction Finder (ADF)

FAA-based aircraft maintenance blog for AMT students and pros. Covers systems, inspections, certification prep, tech updates, and best practices.

www.aircraftsystemstech.com

Wow.. the more you know... You people are a wealth of knowledge.

Check this out if you’re interested

luizmonteiro - Online Simulators - ADF Simulator

 

[spamassassin]

What ever happened to maps. I have detailed topographic maps that includes stuff like ownership and hydrologic information for everything from the Mississippi river to the Pacific ocean. If there comes a time when you need to navigate by AM radio, there won't be any radio signals to be used.

 

[TurboTrout]

What ever happened to maps. I have detailed topographic maps that includes stuff like ownership and hydrologic information for everything from the Mississippi river to the Pacific ocean. If there comes a time when you need to navigate by AM radio, there won't be any radio signals to be used.

Perhaps, but GPS is used by so many it’s weaponized, I could see the gov turning it off just to punish the citizens, not just in some dooms days situation, more means of nav more better.

 

[spamassassin]

Perhaps, but GPS is used by so many it’s weaponized, I could see the gov turning it off just to punish the citizens, not just in some dooms days situation, more means of nav more better.

Totally true and I'd argue that shortsightedness is the thing that'll bite people in the ass when it does happen. .gov is the least of our worries. If people rely on things with electrical circuits, especially integrated circuits (aka computer chips), then they're already broken. Hard copy is life.

 

[c1steve]

I have several ADF's for use on boats. They work well. You can build a manual direction finder, only issue is that you can be 180 degrees off.

Paper maps is what I would rely on, plus compass and dead reckoning (DR).

 

[1911hombre]

Where are we trying to navigate to/across/away from? The Siberian wilderness? Australian outback? Denali? Any inhabited section of the US is no problemo as long as you’ve got a map, compass, sun/stars, and/or a general working knowledge of where shit is. Look over some maps in your spare time before SHTF.

 

[Californio]

Zenith RDF was old school and worked well in the fog, Mexican AM Radio Station brought you right into the channel entrance between the jetty and the breakwater before Loran was affordable.

 

[TurboTrout]

Where are we trying to navigate to/across/away from? The Siberian wilderness? Australian outback? Denali? Any inhabited section of the US is no problemo as long as you’ve got a map, compass, sun/stars, and/or a general working knowledge of where shit is. Look over some maps in your spare time before SHTF.

Anywhere in the US to start.

I agree, thats what we call pilotage, got no issue with multiple types of nav, my thought would be a 3D printed thing, like a hand held GPS, little screen, maybe Bluetooth out, basically say you’re in the woods, or somewhere at night/poor viz with poor references, fire it up, give it a second to sweep a few AM radio stations and you got your position.

 

[TurboTrout]

Zenith RDF was old school and worked well in the fog, Mexican AM Radio Station brought you right into the channel entrance between the jetty and the breakwater before Loran was affordable.