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Recession - 2022 / 2023 / 2024

So, in the opinion of you guys who seem to understand this Economics Disaster, (It's all Greek to me - makes my head spin) how long will this downward spiral continue? The Great Recession back in 2008 I was back in the saddle financially and investment had recovered in about 18 months. Any opinions about when this nut will crack and we can begin a countdown to recovery?

VooDoo
There are some who think the correction will take it back to the flash crash of the 80s. Mind you that this is in relative dollar amounts and this prediction was made before trillions were pumped into the economy.

Something to keep in mind: there is the market and there is the economy. Traditionally it was taught that they were not totally linked. This may prove true if we have monetary inflation and a recession, but IMO it should play out like the GD and 2008/9. In all cases of economic downturn malinvesment is destroyed. There is a lot of bad debt and bad investment to destroy (I.e., let fail) right now. When it goes even the companies that survive will lose share value. But IMO things are so messed with who knows how it actually plays out vs how it traditionally has.
 
There are some who think the correction will take it back to the flash crash of the 80s. Mind you that this is in relative dollar amounts and this prediction was made before trillions were pumped into the economy.

Something to keep in mind: there is the market and there is the economy. Traditionally it was taught that they were not totally linked. This may prove true if we have monetary inflation and a recession, but IMO it should play out like the GD and 2008/9. In all cases of economic downturn malinvesment is destroyed. There is a lot of bad debt and bad investment to destroy (I.e., let fail) right now. When it goes even the companies that survive will lose share value. But IMO things are so messed with who knows how it actually plays out vs how it traditionally has.
I am in agreement with you. With more spare time now than in 2009, I can do a bit more observing, worldwide. I see a few European countries leading us into a worldwide recession. On the other hand, there will be many countries that suffer none or very little. I see this recession having more worldwide effect and lingering longer.

Some history. No I did not fact check:
 
I'm not at all savvy to the Economics thing but I did survive the Great Recession in 2007-2008-2009 - in 2007 Summer I was making custom cutlery (swords) in my basement shop. I was making and selling my own finished creations and had projects for other major players where I would polish and mount their blades in return for a commission. I had a queue and long story short I was making $1K a week doing something I loved and people loved buying/having. Super big win all around.

One of my policies being that we were making and selling swords that often went for $10K was that if a client, for any reason, needed to send the cutlery back we'd gladly take it and refund every penny of the buyers money. We could do this because for every unit sold there were like 20 people in queue that wanted that unit. So long as it was not abused or damaged we'd take it back and move it to another client. Never - *EVER*, had a unit come back until the Summer of 2007. Then it hit the fan..."Hey Dude. My son wrecked the car, I lost my job and then 3 weeks later my Wife lost her job and we literally need the money. We need to send the unit back if we can."

No problem, there are a whole list of people who want that creation. And then it happened again....and again. People I had worked with/clients were dropping dead financially in droves. People with $10K+ a year in disposable income were scared and unemployed. I went back to working a "real job" and the literal bottom dropped out, never to return. By 2008 I was back in a "real job" and watching people being laid off, losing their homes, losing their savings. I luckily dumped all my investments in July of 2007 and bought CD's - my Dentist Brother lost half his retirement.

My long winded point is that *THIS* is not 2008. I humbly submit that the course this Recession will take and it's resolution is literally uncharted and unknown. Too much has changed in the last 15 years. No one knows where this is going or how it will progress/resolve.

I'm sitting tight right now. If I sell all my investments and move to cash or whatever I'll literally leave half my money on the table. I'm sitting tight. If I have to go back to work I will but I think I can tighten the belt enough to avoid that. There is seemingly no recipe/formula to predict what is coming. There is no precedent that gives me perspective.

VooDoo
 
I'm not at all savvy to the Economics thing but I did survive the Great Recession in 2007-2008-2009 - in 2007 Summer I was making custom cutlery (swords) in my basement shop. I was making and selling my own finished creations and had projects for other major players where I would polish and mount their blades in return for a commission. I had a queue and long story short I was making $1K a week doing something I loved and people loved buying/having. Super big win all around.

One of my policies being that we were making and selling swords that often went for $10K was that if a client, for any reason, needed to send the cutlery back we'd gladly take it and refund every penny of the buyers money. We could do this because for every unit sold there were like 20 people in queue that wanted that unit. So long as it was not abused or damaged we'd take it back and move it to another client. Never - *EVER*, had a unit come back until the Summer of 2007. Then it hit the fan..."Hey Dude. My son wrecked the car, I lost my job and then 3 weeks later my Wife lost her job and we literally need the money. We need to send the unit back if we can."

No problem, there are a whole list of people who want that creation. And then it happened again....and again. People I had worked with/clients were dropping dead financially in droves. People with $10K+ a year in disposable income were scared and unemployed. I went back to working a "real job" and the literal bottom dropped out, never to return. By 2008 I was back in a "real job" and watching people being laid off, losing their homes, losing their savings. I luckily dumped all my investments in July of 2007 and bought CD's - my Dentist Brother lost half his retirement.

My long winded point is that *THIS* is not 2008. I humbly submit that the course this Recession will take and it's resolution is literally uncharted and unknown. Too much has changed in the last 15 years. No one knows where this is going or how it will progress/resolve.

I'm sitting tight right now. If I sell all my investments and move to cash or whatever I'll literally leave half my money on the table. I'm sitting tight. If I have to go back to work I will but I think I can tighten the belt enough to avoid that. There is seemingly no recipe/formula to predict what is coming. There is no precedent that gives me perspective.

VooDoo
Listen to the man. He knows of what he speaks.
Especially you young guy's who are lurking or member's who do not want to enter this conversation.... It is you that these messages are targeted to. The old guy's here know how to ride this one out.

Photos are from today. Starting seeds in my green house. Beekeeper's setting up hives in my field. All of this is not for fun. It is to sustain.
 

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Lots of factors coming in to play. Covid is still a factor(China) and war fuel premium(aside from this admin pissing off opec). I think we will see some market fluctuations over the next year or two. Have a good friend thinks 4 to 6 months. His reasoning is the problem with the market are peoples retirements. It has changed from a place for profitable companies or new ideals funding center to a weekly deposit for retirements. When investors like him and myself hold back as their seems to be no bargains the weekly retirement accounts keep throwing cash at it. He believes our government will prop the market as retirees are now dependant on it. The feds dropped the ball and needed to slow the economy down some time ago. That probably means much of the inflation is here to stay. I am debt free and to be honest I would rather have cash in hand and a 3% mortgage right now. On flip side our cash in hand is worth less than it was a year ago= inflation. I day trade also but pulled that cash out of the market last fall due to a demanding contract. There is real potential we will see changes long term In how people live. For most of us if we need something like a tv or the like we’d just go get one. Priorities will change for sure.

i think china will get hammered in the end. Their shutdowns have made corporations look at alternatives. The one thing they will have going for them vs other 3rd world countries is rule of law. it is interesting times for sure.
 
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Lots of factors coming in to play. Covid is still a factor(China) and war fuel premium(aside from this admin pissing off opec). I think we will see some market fluctuations over the next year or two. Have a good friend thinks 4 to 6 months. His reasoning is the problem with the market are peoples retirements. It has changed from a place for profitable companies or new ideals funding center to a weekly deposit for retirements. When investors like him and myself hold back as their seems to be no bargains the weekly retirement accounts keep throwing cash at it. He believes our government will prop the market as retirees are now dependant on it. The feds dropped the ball and needed to slow the economy down some time ago. That probably means much of the inflation is here to stay. I am debt free and to be honest I would rather have cash in hand and a 3% mortgage right now. On flip side our cash in hand is worth less than it was a year ago= inflation. I day trade also but pulled that cash out of the market last fall due to a demanding contract. There is real potential we will see changes long term In how people live. For most of us if we need something like a tv or the like we’d just go get one. Priorities will change for sure.

i think china will get hammered in the end. Their shutdowns have made corporations look at alternatives. The one thing they will have going for them vs other 3rd world countries is rule of law. it is interesting times for sure.
I think you and your friend are optimistic. You and I are probably a generation or two apart age wise. But, again, no one has a crystal ball to know what the future may bring. Please continue to comment as the future unfolds. Every day there are comments that force me to pause, think on it and reply the next day.
 
I think you and your friend are optimistic. You and I are probably a generation or two apart age wise. But, again, no one has a crystal ball to know what the future may bring. Please continue to comment as the future unfolds. Every day there are comments that force me to pause, think on it and reply the next day.
True no one knows as the market has evolved from its intended use. My buddies take was interesting on how many see the investing as retirement. Due to this transition the *continued investment* into companies that should have been bankrupt many years earlier is a problem.
Look no further than Rent the Runway or RENT. Read a financial breakdown on another board recently. They lose money consistently. The business model is one of the worst yet they launched an IPO to inject cash into a money pit. Was a prime opportunity to short a dogs stock into oblivion. Many think HFs are the devil but they also try to keep financial dogs out of the market and by default protects these young cats parents retirements. Be aware of where your retirement money goes.

I grew up in the 70s with a single earner. I had family members still using outhouses in the mountains of TN. Witnessed cable tv come into my town. It was a time where furniture had to last. That big wooden piece of furniture of a TV was used for many many years. We were not poor but not well to do either. Everything was budgeted and if the window AC broke you did without until extra cash was available. I will say as a society back then rural folks did not rely as much on the rest of the world. Granted leaving the local barter market has made all of our lives better in most ways. Now even your local farmer needs internet to update his John Deere's software.
Will our global network of dependency break us like a house of cards or make a new model with more diverse supply chains? We will see how our retirement dollars want to work the corporate side. Choosing better returns/gains over diversity will probably net us back to depending on China.
 
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There is a lot of "misleading" information flooding the market reports this morning... That, along with the markets opening in the green is just enough to entice some investors to get back into the market... Just what the broker's need after the magnitude of the down turn in the economy, the war and food shortages.
One or two sobering reports out there.


 
If you are looking for a long buy and hold. Keep waiting. It will go lower.

One guy this morning predicted 6.00 gas. Another said things will turn upward in the next few weeks.

😂
 
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Interesting comment by the Fed's Christopher Waller:

“We have a labor market that’s so hot, so overstimulated, that it’s a market where you can pull back a lot of demand for labor, and it would actually be a good thing,” adding that “I don’t care what the reasons are, inflation’s too high and it’s my job to get it down.”

Those are not the words of someone who is afraid of the "hard landing" scenario.
 
Interesting comment by the Fed's Christopher Waller:

“We have a labor market that’s so hot, so overstimulated, that it’s a market where you can pull back a lot of demand for labor, and it would actually be a good thing,” adding that “I don’t care what the reasons are, inflation’s too high and it’s my job to get it down.”

Those are not the words of someone who is afraid of the "hard landing" scenario.
The politician's have not "tweeked" him just yet.....
We can hard land in 8 months or soft land in 16 months.... The longer the duration, the more it hurts the man on Main street.
 
The politician's have not "tweeked" him just yet.....
We can hard land in 8 months or soft land in 16 months.... The longer the duration, the more it hurts the man on Main street.

Either way, he's not afraid to destroy a few million jobs to save his own.
 
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"In February, home prices nationwide surged nearly 20 percent year-over-year, with the Sun Belt cities seeing the highest gains. The last time the U.S. real estate market recorded such exceptional growth was during the 2008 housing crisis."
 
I retired in January strait into the current bloodbath on Wall Street..instead of my RIF producing $2K a month it has lost over $30K so if it still look's bad end of June ( :ROFLMAO:) I'll be looking to get a job again. Talked to a guy today who will do almost anything to put a turn key employee with bench electronics repair experience to work. I told him "I need $30 - $40 an hour and no field work.....Bench work only and I'm only wanting The Money. Bennies aside, I'm on Medicare and drawing SS and the *ONLY* reason my skills and experience are on the table is because of this current financial shit show. Money and facts. That's all. The first Come-Along or lie ya'll tell me I'm done without notice."

He's totally cool so *IF* I go back to work short term I'll be making $60K-$$80K a year and doing what I like instead of what some asshole thinks I "Need" to do to keep a job. Apparently they have 200 positions to fill and have no problems paying whatever it takes to put talent on the table and get the job done.

This whole "Looming Recession" thing is making me crazy. Companies are begging for turn key employees. The last time (2008) it was everybody is expendable and layoffs were imminent for all. This doesn't add up this time......This Scenario is not 2008.

VooDoo
 
I am being asked, more frequently, "How bad will this recession get" ? I label that as a timely question. Depending on the person, my replies are, at times, tempered.
Now is an excellent time to look ahead at "security". It could be as insignificant as choosing some alternatives to travel from home to work. Why? Because we are all very much, creatures of habit.
It's been wonderful to acquire the luxury items that reflect your hard work and the great choices you have made over the past 20 years. To a thief, a recession is similar to watching fruit mature on an apple tree. Whether you want to admit it or not, people watch you. The time you leave for work, where you stop for that morning coffee and leave your car running, where you drop your kid off for school, etc. Now is the time to look at yourself and your routine through the eye's of someone who wants your stuff. The unattended jet ski, hobby car or even the Big Boy lawn mower under your shed will be getting more attention as time goes on and the recession progresses. Here's an old thought - "Out of sight, out of mind".
It's about how you advertise. A Timex will tell time just like a Rolex, a 2012 Honda civic will get you to work just like a 2022 Ford F-250, Super Duty Limited. Taking your lunch hour to go pick up that new Snow Machine to show the guys at work certainly gets attention.

Let's all get a big laugh out of this right now. When you head out to do some Christmas shopping in 6 months and are parking way out from the mall with poor lighting and a lot of stranger's around you, your family and your vehicle... You might remember Hobo's message.

You have time to start making gradual changes. So gradual that no one notices. It only takes one incident to turn your world upside down.

 
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One more Fed Governor talking through his hat. Things are not adding up.

Federal Reserve Governor Christopher Waller said he and and his colleagues will follow through on its intentions to raise interest rates until inflation comes down down to the Fed’s targeted level.

 
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So, in the opinion of you guys who seem to understand this Economics Disaster, (It's all Greek to me - makes my head spin) how long will this downward spiral continue? The Great Recession back in 2008 I was back in the saddle financially and investment had recovered in about 18 months. Any opinions about when this nut will crack and we can begin a countdown to recovery?

VooDoo


May 13 – Bloomberg (Jeannine Amodeo): “The US leveraged loan market is in full risk-off mode, forcing bankers to put new offerings on ice until there’s more stability in prices. There’s just three loans in syndication and launches have ground to a halt as the market reels from widespread volatility… Secondary prices have sunk to 95 cents on the dollar on average, spiraling down to November 2020 lows, while loan funds just suffered the biggest weekly withdrawal since April 2020… Funds that invest in US leveraged loans posted the biggest outflow in about two years. The funds lost $598 million of cash for the week ended May 11, according Refinitiv Lipper data. That’s the biggest since the week ended April 8, 2020, during the early days of the pandemic…”

May 12 – Bloomberg (Mary Biekert): “Investors pulled $8.2 billion from U.S. corporate investment-grade bond funds in the biggest weekly exodus since April 2020 amid broad-based market volatility. The outflows for the week ended May 11 are also the fourth largest ever, according to… Refinitiv Lipper, and marks a stretch of seven weeks of withdrawals, the longest since a seven-week period beginning in November 2018. Corporate bond issuance is running well below expectations for the month as inflation-fueled volatility has narrowed windows to sell debt.”


I can’t emphasize enough the ramifications for what I believe is a historic reversal of speculative finance. Repeating a central tenet of my Bubble thesis, contemporary finance appears to function splendidly so long as speculative leverage is expanding and asset prices are inflating. It functions quite poorly in reverse, and it’s now in full reversal – de-risking/deleveraging – mode. And over the years, we’ve witnessed several problematic speculative deleveraging episodes spur dovish pivots, rate cuts, and ever larger QE that invariably thwarted Crisis Dynamics and resuscitated Bubble Dynamics.

Epic pandemic monetary inflation basically guaranteed eventual collapse. Not only did it stoke powerful inflation dynamics, it also spurred speculative Bubbles and manias that ran to perilous extremes. The system now faces historic Bubble collapses without – at least in the key initial phase – the prospect of Fed rate cuts and monetary stimulus.

Compounding the complex and high-risk U.S. backdrop, there are synchronized Bubble collapses unfolding across the globe. And nowhere are the stakes higher than in China, where Bubble deflation has entered the high-risk Acceleration Phase.

Aggregate Financing, China’s measure of broad-based Credit growth, expanded $134 billion in April, the weakest reading since February 2020’s $129 billion. Aggregate Financing was down from March’s $685 billion and about half of April 2021’s $274 billion. It was also only 40% of estimates.

New Bank Loans increased only $95 billion (42% below estimates), down from March’s $460 billion and 56% below April 2021’s $216 billion. Year-to-date Loan growth of $1.321 TN was down 1.8% from comparable 2021. At 10.9%, one-year growth was at the slowest pace since February 2006.

Corporate Loans expanded $85 billion, the weakest expansion since November, and down 23% from April 2021. Year-to-date growth of $1.125 TN, however, was 25% ahead of comparable 2021. Year-over-year growth slowed to 11.8%.

Importantly, Chinese Consumer Loans contracted $32 billion last month, down from April 2021’s $79 billion expansion. This places four-month (2022) growth at $153 billion, 66% below comparable 2021’s $455 billion. One-year growth dropped to 8.9%, the first single-digit rate in data back to 2007. It’s worth noting that one-year growth exceeded 15% every month from March 2009 through December 2019.

Government Bonds expanded $57 billion, slightly ahead of April 2021, but the weakest growth since July. Year-to-date growth of $292 billion was almost double comparable 2021. One-year growth increased to $1.172 TN, a 16.9% growth rate.

Analytically, there are a few salient points. Credit growth slowed dramatically in April, as the Chinese economy suffered from draconian lockdowns. Moreover, Consumer borrowing has recently collapsed. After averaging quarterly growth of $285 billion over the last 13 quarters, Consumer Loans increased only $29 billion during the past three months.

Lockdowns, of course, have been a major drag. Yet I believe the lending collapse is indicative of a momentous shift in housing buyer sentiment. The great Chinese apartment Bubble is bursting, and Beijing stimulus measures will now have only muted effects. The days of millions of Chinese borrowing aggressively to speculate in multiple apartment units have run their course. It’s now a matter of how quickly and dramatically prices adjust – along with how long before tens of millions of unoccupied units come to market.

The unfolding apartment bust is a worrying development from a systemic perspective. Ominously, China’s economy has weakened significantly despite ongoing massive Credit expansion. Even with a weak April, one-year growth in Aggregate Financing still exceeded $4.70 TN, or 10.2%. Aggregate Financing splurged an unprecedented $9.0 TN, or 23%, over the past two years, in end-of-cycle Credit mayhem. As China’s apartment and economic Bubbles deflate, the scope of financial and economic structural maladjustment is being revealed.
 
Yup. No precedent or exact parallel's for what is happening or what is to come. This is *NOT* like 2008 at all. This seems almost orchestrated and controlled/predicted. Watch yer financial ass...something very odd is afoot.

I have been more than a casual observer the last 46 years. There is no precedent for what's happening right now IMO so be very cautious about taking advice from folks about where this is going or how it ends. standard stuff - pay off debt now, don't sell any stock or investments, lay in a stock of food/water/ammunition and form local neighborhood groups to help each other and the kids.

Oh yeah. Buckle up. But keep and open mind and be flexible mentally, physically, and spiritually because the folks who know all about how this goes and how it ends? Are very likely wrong, IMO.

VooDoo
 
Yup. No precedent or exact parallel's for what is happening or what is to come. This is *NOT* like 2008 at all. This seems almost orchestrated and controlled/predicted. Watch yer financial ass...something very odd is afoot.

I have been more than a casual observer the last 46 years. There is no precedent for what's happening right now IMO so be very cautious about taking advice from folks about where this is going or how it ends. standard stuff - pay off debt now, don't sell any stock or investments, lay in a stock of food/water/ammunition and form local neighborhood groups to help each other and the kids.

Oh yeah. Buckle up. But keep and open mind and be flexible mentally, physically, and spiritually because the folks who know all about how this goes and how it ends? Are very likely wrong, IMO.

VooDoo
I am laughing WITH you..... Not at you... Where have the rest of American's been ? The events of today did not develop last night.
A lot of people think, at the last minute, someone is going to jump in and save them financially...
2008 was more identifiable... 2022 is more clandestine.

As VooDoo says, at least introduce your self to your neighbors. Better to do it on a Saturday while everyone is doing yard work that at 2am in a thunderstorm after your front door was kicked in.

By the time you hear there was a run on the local grocery store, save yourself a trip for nothing. Best have what you need now.

Be the grey man... Out of sight, out of mind.
 
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Jerome "Late to the Party" Powell says:
He added that “there could be some pain involved to restoring price stability” but said the labor market should remain strong, with low unemployment and higher wages.

Curious what Jerome's definition of "pain" is... ? Seems to me the working poor in America have been feeling the pain for several months.

 
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:sick: Analysts and investors :ROFLMAO:

Still, expectations on Wall Street were higher this week for both Walmart and Target. Analysts and investors didn’t anticipate that the two big-box retailers would take such a massive hit to their profits in the latest period as supply chain costs weighed on sales and unwanted inventory, such as TVs and kitchen appliances, piled up. Walmart closed Tuesday down 11.4%, marking its worst day since October 1987. On Wednesday, Walmart fell another 6% in afternoon trading, while Target was also on pace to have its worst day in 35 years.

 
Most Walmart shoppers are putting their previous disposable income into their gas tanks and eggs.

Ain’t nobody got time for TVs and appliances.
I'm a hard workin' man
I wear a steel hard hat
I can ride, rope, hammer and paint
Do things with my hands that most men can't
I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try
I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by


 
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IF there is a recession- 2Qs of negative growth, it isn’t going to be because of manufacturing. There is still a 6-9 month back log in orders for most materials, so even if they literally shut down demand, just filling back orders will carry us. Now Q1, it seems that was a statistical or accounting issue. Q2 will be positive, so that keep a true recession from happening. Maybe they can jack rates and spook people enough for Q3 to get jacked, but this economy is like an iceberg- it has a lot of mass and cash behind it.

The business cycle still exists, but I don’t think that we have a Volker that jack with rates enough to actually tank the economy.
 
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IF there is a recession- 2Qs of negative growth, it isn’t going to be because of manufacturing. There is still a 6-9 month back log in orders for most materials, so even if they literally shut down demand, just filling back orders will carry us. Now Q1, it seems that was a statistical or accounting issue. Q2 will be positive, so that keep a true recession from happening. Maybe they can jack rates and spook people enough for Q3 to get jacked, but this economy is like an iceberg- it has a lot of mass and cash behind it.

The business cycle still exists, but I don’t think that we have a Volker that jack with rates enough to actually tank the economy.
I like a positive opinion. Helps balance the outlook.
Back logs disappear when order's are simply cancelled. Two previous recessions taught people to react with a "hair trigger" much faster than the 1987 oil crash. Home owner's walked away from houses and lost a bundle. In 2008 people listened to financial advisor's tell them to "hold tight" and not cash out... Many of them are still working at 75 years old due to that "hold tight" advice.

Your view and opinion is of the United States. This recession is world wide. We have an administration that is running the money printing presses 7/24/365 while sending that money to foreign countries without any accountability. America can not save the world.

I appreciate your focus on manufacturing. I was sorry when "services" became greater than "industry". A fairly current breakdown is 19.91 percent in industry and 78.74 percent in services. Industry could run at 100% but still have to carry a service industry that is quite a bit larger. It will be interesting to watch the lay off's in the two different sectors.

Interest Rates and the FED Reserve have been politicized. That is the reason Jerome Powell's "Frame Work" would not accommodate the events of the world economy. His frame work was built on historical stats. Mankind has never seen so many Black Swans in such a short period of time. As this recession deepens, there will be more Black Swans.

Again, thank you very much for entering this discussion.
 
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3 months ago, I believe that BFC was predicting exactly this.
I’ve been saying forever that $4 plus gas for a sustained period was going to be the beginning of it all. I’ve seen this movie before. Only this time gas is projected to be over $4 a gallon through the new year.

Foreclosures are up, housing starts are down. I DO believe the housing market will be different this time due to interest from institutional buying.

You can’t cut back on going to work to save gas.

If you make $25 an hour, you are working to just not die. That’s IF you get 40 hours a week. Pretty sad.


This is why I started buying lumber at any price in January. This won’t be the only one.

For those who didn’t watch the movie In 2008; $5 gas came before the housing crash. People got broke as fuck, and it pushed those living on a shoestring over the limit. There’s no way to budget in a $200-$300 increase in monthly expenses like that on short notice.

Cost of operating went up which led to layoffs.

Couldn’t sell or trade a V8.

Couldn’t pay mortgages anymore. The recession happened.

A lot of disposable income is going into gas tanks right now. Not target, not Amazon, not Bradley’s jewelry. Walmart will still do alright.

I don’t think fast food will fare as well this time because it is no longer a cheaper alternative to a sit down restaurant.

We haven’t even seen the impacts of increased food production and transportation costs yet.
 
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Seems like average Americans are just buying necessities and paying a lot more for those necessities so still spending $$ but not on "nice to have". Looking at Target stock price - seems like it got run up high during "COVID crisis" and is falling back to pre-COVID levels. I guess when all the free government money to Americans dried up................

I wonder if we can get Zelensky to buy more from Target?
 
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Lots of people in my town bitching that landlords are not renewing rental contracts and relisting them at +$600-$1000 more.
People are saying they cant afford it and have to either massively downsize or move further outside of town.
 
Lots of people in my town bitching that landlords are not renewing rental contracts and relisting them at +$600-$1000 more.
People are saying they cant afford it and have to either massively downsize or move further outside of town.
Hopefully they won't burn the place down and collect on the renter's insurance.
 
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May need to move this to the inflation thread. Hard to keep up.