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Who has the right to ask to see a tax stamp?

Castle Doctrine says that anyone who owns the property or any agent of that person can ask for whatever and if you do not comply they can tell you to leave and not come back.

Ever give your driver's license to a security guard so you could enter a property? Same thing, security guard has no legal right go see it, but if you do not comply, you do not get entry.

If I own a property and I see something that represents a liability to my business you better believe I will confirm laws are not broken or tell the person to leave.

If I call the police because the person will not show a tax stamp or leave, the police now have a reasonable suspicion a crime may have been committed and can investigate. The police may not have had reasonable suspicion by just witnessing you, but your confrontation with the owner created it.

If you play Lawyer with the cops, expect to need a real one.
 
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So, I was at a different gun club last weekend with a friend that was a member. We were working up a load for his 308. I am shooting my 308 with a suppressor. One of the other members walks up and says, "You got a stamp for that?". I was polite and told him "Yes, I do." He asked me to see it. I asked him if was a police officer, or with the ATF and/or the DNR. He said "No."

I did not want to make a fuss...so I just packed up my gear and loaded it in the truck. i waited for my friend to finish and then we left.

I had a jpeg of stamp on my phone but was so pissed off.

I wanted to tell this guy in the worst way to.......take a long walk off a short pier.

Anyway, back to my question, who has the right to ask for you tax stamp and/or documentation.
You've got a right to ask Jessica Alba to give you a blowjob. If you imagine her likely answer that's what you should have told this guy.
 
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Castle Doctrine says that anyone who owns the property or any agent of that person can ask for whatever and if you do not comply they can tell you to leave and not come back.

Ever give your driver's license to a security guard so you could enter a property? Same thing, security guard has no legal right go see it, but if you do not comply, you do not get entry.

If I own a property and I see something that represents a liability to my business you better believe I will confirm laws are not broken or tell the person to leave.

If I call the police because the person will not show a tax stamp or leave, the police now have a reasonable suspicion a crime may have been committed and can investigate. The police may not have had reasonable suspicion by just witnessing you, but your confrontation with the owner created it.

If you play Lawyer with the cops, expect to need a real one.
So at your range do you require all shooters to prove that they are not felons?
 
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To

John_in_WYO


THANK YOU!
pd 21 2.JPG
 
So at your range do you require all shooters to prove that they are not felons?
I do not own a range, I was just explaining the concept.
I am a firearms instructor with Project Appleseed and we require anyone who shows up to a course with a suppressor or SBR to provide proof of legality or leave immediately. That includes all instructors and volunteers.

Not proving someone is not a felon, proving not committing a felony while at our event.
 
I do not own a range, I was just explaining the concept.
I am a firearms instructor with Project Appleseed and we require anyone who shows up to a course with a suppressor or SBR to provide proof of legality or leave immediately. That includes all instructors and volunteers.

Not proving someone is not a felon, proving not committing a felony while at our event.
Fucked up thing to do. There are enough professionals statists out there. No need for amateurs.
 
I do not own a range, I was just explaining the concept.
I am a firearms instructor with Project Appleseed and we require anyone who shows up to a course with a suppressor or SBR to provide proof of legality or leave immediately. That includes all instructors and volunteers.

Not proving someone is not a felon, proving not committing a felony while at our event.
I just dont get the singling out of NFA items only, specifically suppressors. do you verify ownership of every firearm also? how about AR pistols? you would think having a prohibited person rolling in with stolen guns would be more of a concern. are you concerned the suppressor is stolen or what? its not like you can verify the stamp is valid. why do you even care about an atachment to a firearm that actually benifits other shooters? its not like the range or person holding the event would be liable. I genuinely just dont get why it matters.
 
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I just dont get the singling out of NFA items only, specifically suppressors. do you verify ownership of every firearm also? are you concerned the suppressor is stolen or what? why do you even care about an atachment to a firearm that actually benifits other shooters? its not like the range or person holding the event would be liable. I genuinely just dont get why.
I am not sure of why we have the policy, nor do I personally think it likely anyone would show up with something illegal. I am just saying he who owns the property/ runs the event, gets to make the rules.
An indoor range I shoot at takes my drivers license and holds until I pay on my way out. Their range, their rules.
 
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I am not sure of why we have the policy, nor do I personally think it likely anyone would show up with something illegal. I am just saying he who owns the property/ runs the event, gets to make the rules.
An indoor range I shoot at takes my drivers license and holds until I pay on my way out. Their range, their rules.
I get the whole my place/ my rules thing and even why a range would hold an ID.

I just cant think of a rational reason safety or legality wise of why they would feel the need to single out NFA items.

Unless it comes from a mentality that those items are "taboo". it just feels discriminatory. I would understand if some dude had a Fram filter or something sketchy black pipe and you want to verify it's a legit can for safety reasons.
 
I get the whole my place/ my rules thing and even why a range would hold an ID.

I just cant think of a rational reason safety or legality wise of why they would feel the need to single out NFA items.

Unless it comes from a mentality that those items are "taboo". it just feels discriminatory. I would understand if some dude had a Fram filter or something sketchy black pipe and you want to verify it's a legit can for safety reasons.
My guess of why my organization requires verification of registration at all events is because it is the easiest way to set policy when SOME ranges, Cities, Countries, States or perhaps the NFA itself requires it by rule or law. This is from Georgia, read No. 1.


Why do they feel they need such rules? I am sure in some cases there is a story with an idiot and they wanted a policy that let them check on the level of stupidity if it happened again based on policy. I also guess more than a few are under advice from lawyers concerned with liability.

I have never seen what I suspect was an illegal NFA item at a range or event myself, but have spoken to people who work at ranges that have seen suspicious things. I agree with you that I do not like the policies and if we want someone to leave our event we do need to give a reason why.
 
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When I got my first suppressor I asked every RO I came across if they wanted to see my paperwork before shooting.

Every one of the looked at me as if I just asked if they wanted to to see my wiener.

Looking back, it was embarrassing.
I bet if you were asking to show your wiener some would have taken you up on it…….
 
The gun community should promote ownership and use of accessories like these. Not try and act as some verification authority. Imagine how powerful the community would be if we didnt have all these cucks and closet liberals trying to verify shit that isnt any of their fuckin business and we stuck together as a whole. You know, kinda like the other side does...
 
So, I was at a different gun club last weekend with a friend that was a member. We were working up a load for his 308. I am shooting my 308 with a suppressor. One of the other members walks up and says, "You got a stamp for that?". I was polite and told him "Yes, I do." He asked me to see it. I asked him if was a police officer, or with the ATF and/or the DNR. He said "No."

I did not want to make a fuss...so I just packed up my gear and loaded it in the truck. i waited for my friend to finish and then we left.

I had a jpeg of stamp on my phone but was so pissed off.

I wanted to tell this guy in the worst way to.......take a long walk off a short pier.

Anyway, back to my question, who has the right to ask for you tax stamp and/or documentation.
The correct answer to his question was, "Mind your own business." or "The fuck off out of here with that shit." Do you let fuckwits off the street see your driver license when you park in a Safeway parking lot? Do you invite the cop to stick his finger up your ass while signing a traffic ticket? It's the same fucking thing. Grow a pair OP.
 
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The correct answer to his question was, "Mind your own business." or "The fuck off out of here with that shit." Do you let fuckwits off the street see your driver license when you park in a Safeway parking lot? Do you invite the cop to stick his finger up your ass while signing a traffic ticket? It's the same fucking thing. Grow a pair OP.

The OP wasn't in a public place. He was in a private place and he was there only as a guest. He can be asked for his tax stamp as a condition of being there whether he or you like it or not.

You can refuse, just don't be surprised when you get your ass thrown out.
 
The OP wasn't in a public place. He was in a private place and he was there only as a guest. He can be asked for his tax stamp as a condition of being there whether he or you like it or not.

You can refuse, just don't be surprised when you get your ass thrown out.
The answer doesn't change. If he's not aware of that requirement then they've not communicated it to him and therefore it is not a requirement. I belong to a few private ranges. They're uniformly the places where nobody asks you for shit. That you were able to open the gate was all the bona fides necessary. Thus, I reject entirely your carefully contrived hypothesis as basically just more boot licker bullshit.
 
the only man I would recognize to see anything he wants to see "god"
 
Yeah, it's almost shocking.
Thanks to people like Gov Desantis and our AG Ashley Moody, people that follow the laws are left alone.
The shit stains that live on the lower east coast need to move back to NY and NJ and take their shit politics back to their shithole state.
Otherwise, yeah, we're the Gunshine state.
That would empty all of Palm Beach and Broward counties, and 80% of Dade.
 
The answer doesn't change. If he's not aware of that requirement then they've not communicated it to him and therefore it is not a requirement. I belong to a few private ranges. They're uniformly the places where nobody asks you for shit. That you were able to open the gate was all the bona fides necessary. Thus, I reject entirely your carefully contrived hypothesis as basically just more boot licker bullshit.

Your answer may not change, but then you will be asked to leave. Stop trying to play shithouse lawyer with the "If he's not aware of that requirement then they've not communicated it to him and therefore it is not a requirement" bullshit. It's private property, and as a guest there you have no rights of prior notification.

If you refuse to leave you will be arrested for trespass. In many states, that might be elevated to armed trespass.

Every time you flex, don't forget that someone around you can flex more.
 
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I bet that if the GUEST resisted being tossed out, pulled his prick out, the member would be barred.
HE read the rules and did not advise his guest to STFU.
Think he would get his membership dues back?

Part of the uproar over this is the fact that it was only a suppressor. Something more should use out o consideration for others on the line.
If it was an SBR, maybe less pushback.
I would hesitate letting someone hunt on my private property with an SBR that I did not KNOW was legal.
 
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So, after all this info (thank you @John_in_WYO) my buddy wants to go shooting today. He has a new batch of bullets loaded up. I am now armed with actual data/information

A little back round first. This is a trap club. A NICE club with four trap stations. My buddy is a 20 year member and just got into rifles and reloading. On the way to the club this AM I asked. "Why are we shooting here they only have a 100 yard range?". In other words, rifle shooting is an afterthought and used once a year for deer sight ins.

He (my buddy) would not admit it but I would bet "dollars against donuts" he wanted to show off his rifle and what he could do.

So, I am ok, what the F#ck lets go. I did not take any firearms, etc. with me. Why temp fate? I load up the table. shooting bags and magnetospeed and off we go.

We show up and my friend is shooting. (Again, off my bench 'cause theirs's are so sh#tty) and my buddy "Mr. tax Stamp" shows up.

He (Mr. Tax Stamp) apologized to me.

I replied. "No big deal". I don't go off the deep end about club rules. private property, blah blah blah.....

MY buddy kept shooting, got all his data off the magnetospeed and we packed up.

We go into the clubhouse and Mr. Tax Stamp buys me a beer. WTF?

I ask my buddy what is with that? Why?

I guess that the other members gave Mr. Tax Stamp a rather large helping of shut The F#ck up salad.

So again, thanks to all.
 
So, after all this info (thank you @John_in_WYO) my buddy wants to go shooting today. He has a new batch of bullets loaded up. I am now armed with actual data/information

A little back round first. This is a trap club. A NICE club with four trap stations. My buddy is a 20 year member and just got into rifles and reloading. On the way to the club this AM I asked. "Why are we shooting here they only have a 100 yard range?". In other words, rifle shooting is an afterthought and used once a year for deer sight ins.

He (my buddy) would not admit it but I would bet "dollars against donuts" he wanted to show off his rifle and what he could do.

So, I am ok, what the F#ck lets go. I did not take any firearms, etc. with me. Why temp fate? I load up the table. shooting bags and magnetospeed and off we go.

We show up and my friend is shooting. (Again, off my bench 'cause theirs's are so sh#tty) and my buddy "Mr. tax Stamp" shows up.

He (Mr. Tax Stamp) apologized to me.

I replied. "No big deal". I don't go off the deep end about club rules. private property, blah blah blah.....

MY buddy kept shooting, got all his data off the magnetospeed and we packed up.

We go into the clubhouse and Mr. Tax Stamp buys me a beer. WTF?

I ask my buddy what is with that? Why?

I guess that the other members gave Mr. Tax Stamp a rather large helping of shut The F#ck up salad.

So again, thanks to all.

I'm gonna guess your buddy (club member) settled things in private after the first episode.
 
So, after all this info (thank you @John_in_WYO) my buddy wants to go shooting today. He has a new batch of bullets loaded up. I am now armed with actual data/information

A little back round first. This is a trap club. A NICE club with four trap stations. My buddy is a 20 year member and just got into rifles and reloading. On the way to the club this AM I asked. "Why are we shooting here they only have a 100 yard range?". In other words, rifle shooting is an afterthought and used once a year for deer sight ins.

He (my buddy) would not admit it but I would bet "dollars against donuts" he wanted to show off his rifle and what he could do.

So, I am ok, what the F#ck lets go. I did not take any firearms, etc. with me. Why temp fate? I load up the table. shooting bags and magnetospeed and off we go.

We show up and my friend is shooting. (Again, off my bench 'cause theirs's are so sh#tty) and my buddy "Mr. tax Stamp" shows up.

He (Mr. Tax Stamp) apologized to me.

I replied. "No big deal". I don't go off the deep end about club rules. private property, blah blah blah.....

MY buddy kept shooting, got all his data off the magnetospeed and we packed up.

We go into the clubhouse and Mr. Tax Stamp buys me a beer. WTF?

I ask my buddy what is with that? Why?

I guess that the other members gave Mr. Tax Stamp a rather large helping of shut The F#ck up salad.

So again, thanks to all.
This thread sucks unless you go back next weekend with a Binary Trigger.
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

In a members only "CLUB" each member may be responsible for the conduct of members and guest.
If the bylaws require "Members" in the absence of a club officer, to "Police" (challenge) shooters to make sure they are members or an authorized guest of a member and that they are not in violation of club rules or laws, then any member or club officer, may ask to see your membership card, and maybe even your Stamp.
Remember you were a GUEST.

So are these people responsible to ensure that all guns brought by guests have been legally obtained?

That their vehicles have proper registration and insurance?

That their taxes have been filed properly and are above board?

GTFO of here with that BS. The only business anyone on a range has with anyone else is safety. Police people on safety violations, not on enforcing laws and regulations.
 
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Guess you don't need to be joining any range clubs.
Bench rest comps and a binary trigger would be interesting.

What say the Op had a home built un-seriallized suppressor from a kit, packed up and left?
Never see that suppressor again on that range again.
Just saying.
At least you got a beer out of all this.
Trap club fudds?
 
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what are the chances somone at the range or associated with it read this thread and was like wtf.
 
A thought.

Instead of showing the tax stamp, could you show the serial number and manufacturers info on the silencer itself (or sbr/sbs) to prove that it is legal? Would someone put that on an illegally manufactured silencer? If it was manufactured by a company the only way to get it is legally.

Having a copy of the tax stamp doesn't prove that the item wasn't stolen unless they also check drivers license but how does that cover if it was on a trust?

Say someone steals a trust owned silencer along with a copy of the tax stamp. Thief goes to a range. Is smart enough to show the tax stamp copy. How are they going to get caught as a thief by the rso? The only ones that could would be an actual checking of the original tax stamp by atf or irs agent actually having enough suspicion to decide they wanted to see the original. That isn't going to happen on just a quick check.
 
I don't think they check for felons or stolen guns or accessories.
I imagine the main interest is NFA stuff. It's a shame a suppressor is on the list.
How many go out in the wild with their solvent trap kit suppressors.
Would be stupid to go to a range with rules in the first place.
Or a sanctioned competition, or a long range training class.


Four pages and the general consensus is Don't show nothin.
Try and get a free BJ, if not, a free beer.
Bear Pit logic :)
 
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FUDDS being FUDDS and proving once again that gun owners are actually some of the biggest problems for gun owners.
Freedom is something most folks just can't understand and they all want to be about enforcing the King's tax law even if they have no authority to do so and no logical reason to do so other than just to be a bunch of Karens.
 
FUDDS being FUDDS and proving once again that gun owners are actually some of the biggest problems for gun owners.
Freedom is something most folks just can't understand and they all want to be about enforcing the King's tax law even if they have no authority to do so and no logical reason to do so other than just to be a bunch of Karens.
How many of these Private shooting clubs have these communist rules?
Bayou does, it was posted.
How about some of the others.
Palo Alto is in my area, I've never been.
Communist club?
Maybe a list of communist clubs so we can boycott them.
I'll look over Pascagoula's by laws. I used to belong.
Then a list of shooting classes, long range and ELR. There's always one or two promoted in this forum.
Communist rules apply?
An Appleseed instructor checks. On his own, or in the Bi Laws?
List the ones that don't, the one that do.
The semi-public range near me, Honey Island Shooting Range, on DWF property says you need a pass or license to enter, they tell you about it but it's on you. They don't check nothin, even SBRs. Just don't shoot cross lane or over the berm.
Had a REAL 2A enthusiast take his AR and shoot plates on the 100 yd line. Red, Blue, White, Red - - - down the line and was proud of it.
Told to leave, he did. No BJ, no beer.

Just how many of you guys shoot waiting for your stamp, if you even applied? It's your god given right, right. (shhh)?
 
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You probably look legit. That helps. Belong to any Private Fudd Clubs?
Like maybe one with a CLUB HOUSE to drink before driving home?
:)
Fuck no.......why would I ever do that.

Doc
 
Nice to have a place to go shoot. Wish I did.
Years back I joined a hunting club.
To shoot in the off season.
Bubbas with tall stools in the bed of the truck, long roads in a leased pine forest.
Gave that up. Hunting with disposable beagles chasing deer across the private roads is the thing down south.

IN door range? Not me.
 
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So basically a club checks all NFA items like Bazookas, destructive devices, rocket launchers, grenades, machine guns, sawed off rifles and shotguns. and since suppressors fall into that category because stupid. the only items they ever see is a suppressors.

dont neccesarily agree, but I understand.

 
The semi-private range I go to, Honey Island Shooting range, has rules for full auto. They can only shoot paper on the 25 yd pistol range.
SBRs are pretty common there. They do warn you about DWF and needing a hunting license or WMA pass.
No real AP ammo at their steel (cheap torch cut plates) and I got asked to stop shooting Tracers in a 1903 Mark 1 30-06. Seldom lit on the 100 yard range so what was the big deal shooting paper and then straight into the berm? A couple did light, and RO saw it.
Tracer? Must have been a reflection :)
On the shotgun side I was asked not to rapid fire. I'm bad with a shotgun but could get 8 rounds off before the clay hit the ground and rolled off.
 
I live in a very rural area of Colorado and we have a County owned public range with all of the rules posted at the gate where you enter and pay your daily fee if you are not a member. Daily fee is $10 per vehicle, not per person.
I was on the board of directors until the county dissolved that and put a man in charge of it all.
It is open from 07:00 til dusk and that keeps the neighbors happy. There is night time shooting on the lighted trap ranges when they are shooting their leagues but the NV guys are SOL as it closes at dusk.
They don't allow AP rounds as those fuck up the steel targets and they don't allow tracers because they can start fires and it is drier than a popcorn fart out here, same with exploding targets, we have had several small fires that we were lucky they got put out quickly and if one got out of hand it could and would burn for miles. Wildfires are no joke out here. We have had fools put exploding targets on top of the uprights holding the target frames up and blow them all to hell but I am yet to have one of those assholes come out and help us replace what they destroyed.
Shot guns are banned from the pistol and rifle ranges as the "Shotty" guys tear the fuck out of the pallets used for holding targets and again I am yet to see any of those asshole out there helping to replaced what they have destroyed.
There is a designated range for them to go fuck up on.
Machine guns are allowed but they have to call a posted number before shooting so their ammo can be checked for AP and tracers for the above stated reasons and some of us Old Fudds like to get off on them too.
Some of those Fudds have fired more machine gun ammo than the average MG owner can only dream of but I digress.
If you buy a yearly single membership for $100 or $140 for your family there will be a copy of the rules in the packet they send you with your membership card and sticker.
If you load 5 people in your vehicle and pay the $10 for that vehicle, read the fucking rules posted where you pay on the honor system and if you can't abide by them, go somewhere else.
I have never seen nor heard of anyone asking to see a Stamp for a suppressor out there but this thread has my curiosity up and the next time I see someone shooting with one I will tell them I have never seen one and would like to see it so I know what it is. Is it pretty like a duck stamp? that you would want to collect?
Should it be you that I ask, don't cop an attitude, I am just just curious and at my age I would wonder if I could wait to get one let alone afford it.
Don't go hands on with this curmudgeon as I am all out of Fucks to give and will put a hole in you that you will be looking for a door knob to plug it up with, you won't be my first.
As to suppressors, I love them. I think everyone should be able to buy them freely and think Uncle Sugar is only in it for the money.
 
I live in a very rural area of Colorado and we have a County owned public range with all of the rules posted at the gate where you enter and pay your daily fee if you are not a member. Daily fee is $10 per vehicle, not per person.
I was on the board of directors until the county dissolved that and put a man in charge of it all.
It is open from 07:00 til dusk and that keeps the neighbors happy. There is night time shooting on the lighted trap ranges when they are shooting their leagues but the NV guys are SOL as it closes at dusk.
They don't allow AP rounds as those fuck up the steel targets and they don't allow tracers because they can start fires and it is drier than a popcorn fart out here, same with exploding targets, we have had several small fires that we were lucky they got put out quickly and if one got out of hand it could and would burn for miles. Wildfires are no joke out here. We have had fools put exploding targets on top of the uprights holding the target frames up and blow them all to hell but I am yet to have one of those assholes come out and help us replace what they destroyed.
Shot guns are banned from the pistol and rifle ranges as the "Shotty" guys tear the fuck out of the pallets used for holding targets and again I am yet to see any of those asshole out there helping to replaced what they have destroyed.
There is a designated range for them to go fuck up on.
Machine guns are allowed but they have to call a posted number before shooting so their ammo can be checked for AP and tracers for the above stated reasons and some of us Old Fudds like to get off on them too.
Some of those Fudds have fired more machine gun ammo than the average MG owner can only dream of but I digress.
If you buy a yearly single membership for $100 or $140 for your family there will be a copy of the rules in the packet they send you with your membership card and sticker.
If you load 5 people in your vehicle and pay the $10 for that vehicle, read the fucking rules posted where you pay on the honor system and if you can't abide by them, go somewhere else.
I have never seen nor heard of anyone asking to see a Stamp for a suppressor out there but this thread has my curiosity up and the next time I see someone shooting with one I will tell them I have never seen one and would like to see it so I know what it is. Is it pretty like a duck stamp? that you would want to collect?
Should it be you that I ask, don't cop an attitude, I am just just curious and at my age I would wonder if I could wait to get one let alone afford it.
Don't go hands on with this curmudgeon as I am all out of Fucks to give and will put a hole in you that you will be looking for a door knob to plug it up with, you won't be my first.
As to suppressors, I love them. I think everyone should be able to buy them freely and think Uncle Sugar is only in it for the money.
Images pulled from image search.

This is affixed to a piece of paper. Generally has some writing on the stamp itself.
tax+stamp.jpg


Front page looks something like this. There is 4 pages total with the 4th being This page was intentionally left blank.
1588524843857.jpeg


One of my forms (copy). Intentionally taken fuzzy.
20220925_114929.jpg
 
No they are not pretty. And, there is no secondary collector market for them.
 
Thank you for your input.
I really didn't know what they looked like. I have never seen one.
As to collectability, no, maybe not? but you say some have a Signature or some writing on them? kind of like a stock on the Garand you just bought from CMP?
Maybe in 50 years there may be a collector who would pay big bucks for that? or
May be your Grandkids out shooting your best shit? and they are really glad they have proof of all taxes paid by GrandPa and they are legal?
Maybe Big Brother is watching YOU.
 
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Thank you for your input.
I really didn't know what they looked like. I have never seen one.
As to collectability, no, maybe not? but you say some have a Signature or some writing on them? kind of like a stock on the Garand you just bought from CMP?
Maybe in 50 years there may be a collector who would pay big bucks for that? or
May be your Grandkids out shooting your best shit? and they are really glad they have proof of all taxes paid by GrandPa and they are legal?
Maybe Big Brother is watching YOU.
The writing is serial number, date, and examiners initials. Nothing interesting.
 
The writing is serial number, date, and examiners initials. Nothing interesting.
I have some old ones with nothing on the stamp and some with just the serial number.

15+ years ago, NFA stamps sold on Ebay for more than the stamp price. Some were cut from forms that items were sold, some were the complete form with the owners name blacked out that showed the item, description, and SN.
 
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