Honda to release Hydrogen fuel cell car in 2024

[Maggot]

This could get interesting. Especially if it tends to go boom in an accident. Love that hydrogen gas.

Interesting, I had never noticed the swastika in the lower right of the blimp. Forecast of things to come for Hitler?

Honda to launch fuel cell vehicle in 2024 - TechCrunch​

https://techcrunch.com › 2022/11/30 › honda-to-launch...



6 hours ago — Honda will launch a fuel cell electric vehicle based on its bestselling CR-V crossover in 2024 as part of its strategy to go fully electric.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

So just how dangerous is hydrogen fuel? | HYdrogen Properties for Energy Research (HYPER) Laboratory | Washington State University

hydrogen.wsu.edu

 

[Maggot]

So just how dangerous is hydrogen fuel? | HYdrogen Properties for Energy Research (HYPER) Laboratory | Washington State University

hydrogen.wsu.edu

Interesting, I've been educated.

It does seem reasonable that being lighter it would dissipate quickly and do less damage over the long term.

 

[rtB]

What happens if a Tesla runs into a Honda?

Flying Cars!

 

[lash]

So just how dangerous is hydrogen fuel? | HYdrogen Properties for Energy Research (HYPER) Laboratory | Washington State University

hydrogen.wsu.edu

That was a good article and increased my knowledge also. However, as pointed out in that article, our ingrained mistrust of Hydrogen gas, perpetuated by spectacular events that are misunderstood and by Hollywood, is the real obstacle that will have to be surmounted. Well, that and a total lack of available supporting infrastructure.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Honda has had the Clarity hydrogen powered car available for lease in California for several years.

Despite coming with free fuel, it failed to get much notice.

I don't think this will be any different.

 

[eflyguy]

total lack of available supporting infrastructure

There are 54 retail Hydrogen fueling stations in the US, virtually all in CA, according to the official government alternative fuel data center. Also, there is no excess of hydrogen to fuel these cars (just like there is nowhere near enough electrical grid capacity for electric cars), and it *very* expensive to produce. It requires a lot of electrical energy, and although technically solar energy can make small quantities for research and small commercial operations with a lot of land for a solar farm, the bulk of it is produced using power from nuclear power stations - back to us not having the electrical generation capacity to support electric cars.

In short, it's just marketing.

It is certainly not unsafe.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

That was a good article and increased my knowledge also. However, as pointed out in that article, our ingrained mistrust of Hydrogen gas, perpetuated by spectacular events that are misunderstood and by Hollywood, is the real obstacle that will have to be surmounted. Well, that and a total lack of available supporting infrastructure.

Hollywood could fuck up a free lunch. Look how grenades are represented with big fire balls, they don't look like that at all. However, most of the Joe Blow public doesn't know that and believes a big fire ball is what a grenade looks like.

Hydrogen fuel cells have been used for industrial back up for sometime. They are being use on Railroads through out the US. They are stationary, but people like to shoot at them a long with propane tanks. Heads up propane tanks do not exploded when shot, they just leak propane. Pain in the ass to replace them, even bigger pain in the ass in the winter time. The tanks supply fuel for the generators.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Honda has had the Clarity hydrogen powered car available for lease in California for several years.

Despite coming with free fuel, it failed to get much notice.

I don't think this will be any different.

Do you get to drive in the carpool lane with one of those fancy sticker they have for the electric vehicles. If not maybe thats why it didn't take off.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Well for shits and giggles I looked it up and yes they do get the fancy stickers

Eligible Carpool Sticker List | California Air Resources Board

Auto Manufacturers: Auto manufacturers may email CARB the emissions certification Executive Order and a VIN decoder, if a presumed or approved eligible vehicle is not yet listed on this page.

ww2.arb.ca.gov

 

[Maggot]

Hollywood could fuck up a free lunch. Look how grenades are represented with big fire balls, they don't look like that at all. However, most of the Joe Blow public doesn't know that and believes a big fire ball is what a grenade looks like.

Hydrogen fuel cells have been used for industrial back up for sometime. They are being use on Railroads through out the US. They are stationary, but people like to shoot at them a long with propane tanks. Heads up propane tanks do not exploded when shot, they just leak propane. Pain in the ass to replace them, even bigger pain in the ass in the winter time. The tanks supply fuel for the generators.

Dern.

Ive got a 40 gallon propane tank that wont pass re certification. I had it slated for a tracer or incendiary round. You've ruined my fantasy. Youre mean.

 

[thebeav]

Dern.

Ive got a 40 gallon propane tank that wont pass re certification. I had it slated for a tracer or incendiary round. You've ruined my fantasy. Youre mean.

Oh, I think an incendiary round would get the desired effect......

 

[Jgunner]

Oh, I think an incendiary round would get the desired effect......

Needs oxygen. No oxygen inside the tank means no explosion. You'll just have a torch shooting out from the tank, the tank would need to be super heated and come apart vs a little hole in it to blow up. Ymmmv.

 

[Darayavaus]

Interesting, I had never noticed the swastika in the lower right of the blimp. Forecast of things to come for Hitler?

​

yep. hydrogen, windmills, and solar power. Next thing you know they'll do away with public transportation and start using rickshaws.

 

[jolofree]

Needs oxygen. No oxygen inside the tank means no explosion. You'll just have a torch shooting out from the tank, the tank would need to be super heated and come apart vs a little hole in it to blow up. Ymmmv.

Ya heat her up for a BLEVE

 

[W54/XM-388]

View attachment 8011040




yep. hydrogen, windmills, and solar power. Next thing you know they'll do away with public transportation and start using rickshaws.

As a side note because everybody likes to point to the Hindenburg.
It was actually a very safe design with great care taken to make sure the hydrogen didn't go boom.
Unfortunately they painted the shell with essentially rocket fuel

Hydrogen burns with an invisible flame.

Static or lightning ignited the highly flammable paint on the outside & that's what went up like a candle.


You'll notice the raging flames you see? That's NOT the hydrogen, that's the painted shell.
Also you'll notice it didn't just suddenly go boom and drop out of the sky, it came down a lot slower as the flames took time to get to each of the hydrogen containment bags.

Of course it was using Hydrogen because the USA wouldn't sell the Nazis and Helium and at the time Helium was a bit rare.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Hollywood could fuck up a free lunch. Look how grenades are represented with big fire balls, they don't look like that at all. However, most of the Joe Blow public doesn't know that and believes a big fire ball is what a grenade looks like.

Hydrogen fuel cells have been used for industrial back up for sometime. They are being use on Railroads through out the US. They are stationary, but people like to shoot at them a long with propane tanks. Heads up propane tanks do not exploded when shot, they just leak propane. Pain in the ass to replace them, even bigger pain in the ass in the winter time. The tanks supply fuel for the generators.

let's not forget ammo in a fire where everyone is dodging ricocheting bullets

 

[eflyguy]

Helium was a bit rare

It still is. It can't be manufactured/synthesized, so we only have what can be extracted from the earth.

 

[hollowoutadime]

RIP the NSX, pretty badass car.

Acura NSX Factory in Ohio Will Build Hydrogen Honda CR-Vs Next

The Acura NSX is dead, and Honda's Performance Manufacturing Center that built the car will now pivot to other low-volume projects.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Redmanss]

Hydrogen powered cars? Yep, they run on Wyoming mined Tesla fuel too.

 

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

Dern.

Ive got a 40 gallon propane tank that wont pass re certification. I had it slated for a tracer or incendiary round. You've ruined my fantasy. Youre mean.

You have to build a fire behind it.. been there done that.

 

[Maggot]

You have to build a fire behind it.. been there done that.

So youre blowing any remaining gas right into the fire. Got it, check.

Do you reckon that info is ITAR regulated. Will PMI ban us?

 

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

So youre blowing any remaining gas right into the fire. Got it, check.

Do you reckon that info is ITAR regulated. Will PMI ban us?

Oops... damn

 

[fdkay]

Honda has had the Clarity hydrogen powered car available for lease in California for several years.

Despite coming with free fuel, it failed to get much notice.

I don't think this will be any different.

California is the only state in the union with hydrogen fuel stations

 

[Blue Sky Country]

let's not forget ammo in a fire where everyone is dodging ricocheting bullets

Terminator movie: They run into a supermarket in a highly agitated and breathless state, spend 5 minutes making purchases of "ingredients", and another few minutes later they got pipe bombs filled with plastic explosives and were lighting simple fuses on the things and throwing them like firecrackers.

Another cheesy action movie, don't remember what it is called, but the hero throws an unopened, full display pack of 50-100 Bic lighters at the pursuing baddie's car, and then shoots the pack of lighters once with a 9mm Beretta, and the entire section of the street along with the bad guy's car goes up like a napalm bomb explosion. Hero spends a second looking at the fireball with the classic 'look of someone who has seen it all', before turning and walking away, the entire street a flaming wreck behind him.

 

[fdkay]

Terminator movie: They run into a supermarket in a highly agitated and breathless state, spend 5 minutes making purchases of "ingredients", and another few minutes later they got pipe bombs filled with plastic explosives and were lighting simple fuses on the things and throwing them like firecrackers.

Another cheesy action movie, don't remember what it is called, but the hero throws an unopened, full display pack of 50-100 Bic lighters at the pursuing baddie's car, and then shoots the pack of lighters once with a 9mm Beretta, and the entire section of the street along with the bad guy's car goes up like a napalm bomb explosion. Hero spends a second looking at the fireball with the classic 'look of someone who has seen it all', before turning and walking away, the entire street a flaming wreck behind him.

I always liked the aerosol paint can/small propane cannister in the microwave trick.
Not only are there never any sparks from having metal cannisters in the microwave, they always explode when the bell goes off.

 

[brianf]

Terminator movie: They run into a supermarket in a highly agitated and breathless state, spend 5 minutes making purchases of "ingredients", and another few minutes later they got pipe bombs filled with plastic explosives and were lighting simple fuses on the things and throwing them like firecrackers.

Another cheesy action movie, don't remember what it is called, but the hero throws an unopened, full display pack of 50-100 Bic lighters at the pursuing baddie's car, and then shoots the pack of lighters once with a 9mm Beretta, and the entire section of the street along with the bad guy's car goes up like a napalm bomb explosion. Hero spends a second looking at the fireball with the classic 'look of someone who has seen it all', before turning and walking away, the entire street a flaming wreck behind him.

so true, as a kid how much stuff did you try to light on fire and hope it would explode

it was hard enough to start a fire nevermind the item actually doing anything but melting or burning

"gun power pipe bomb" covered with dirt on small trees were fun though

 

[Blue Sky Country]

I always liked the aerosol paint can/small propane cannister in the microwave trick.
Not only are there never any sparks from having metal cannisters in the microwave, they always explode when the bell goes off.

 

[fdkay]

 

[EddieNFL]

I'm holding out for matter-antimatter technology.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

If it's hard finding a place to recharge an EV, imagine how hard it will be to find hydrogen. Buy it in tanks at the store? Buy more from the dealer where ya'll bought the car?

Seems to me we need to figure out where we are going and go that way. Kinda seems like the Automotive Industry is jumping around like a bunch of morons. I'm not buying another vehicle until we figure out what the dominant fuel source is gonna be.

I'm still wondering why the entire surface of an EV is not generating electricity and charging commuter vehicles while they sit in the parking lot for 8 hours. Or maybe we can develop reactors that use the generated electricity to break water down into hydrogen and top it up while it's sitting there.

VooDoo

 

[eflyguy]

I'm still wondering why the entire surface of an EV is not generating electricity and charging commuter vehicles while they sit in the parking lot for 8 hours. Or maybe we can develop reactors that use the generated electricity to break water down into hydrogen and top it up while it's sitting there.

(a) the sun doesn't always shine, and solar efficiency drops off drastically when the panels are not pointed directly at the sun. One of the advantage of ground-based solar arrays is you can periodically adjust them as the sun gets lower in the sky by season. Even so, 8 hrs under ideal conditions would give you very little range.
(b) The smallest SMR (small modular reactors) cost between 180-735 million for 45MW, and that power would be far better served charging EV batteries directly, not wasting 30% on conversion to hydrogen, and another 60-75% in the conversion back into electricity.

 

[fdkay]

(a) the sun doesn't always shine, and solar efficiency drops off drastically when the panels are not pointed directly at the sun. One of the advantage of ground-based solar arrays is you can periodically adjust them as the sun gets lower in the sky by season. Even so, 8 hrs under ideal conditions would give you very little range.
(b) The smallest SMR (small modular reactors) cost between 180-735 million for 45MW, and that power would be far better served charging EV batteries directly, not wasting 30% on conversion to hydrogen, and another 60-75% in the conversion back into electricity.

Mr. Fusion Home energy reactor.
Duh.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Kinda seems like the Automotive Industry is jumping around like a bunch of morons. I'm not buying another vehicle until we figure out what the dominant fuel source is gonna be.

I'm still wondering why the entire surface of an EV is not generating electricity and charging commuter vehicles while they sit in the parking lot for 8 hours. Or maybe we can develop reactors that use the generated electricity to break water down into hydrogen and top it up while it's sitting there.

VooDoo

The entire car industry is being held hostage to goverenment rules and government dictates.
So they kind of have no choice but to hop around as the stupid politicians swing from one scheme to another.

For most EVs (except like crazy designs), the added weight and cost of solar panels negates any possible electric generation except as a virtue signalling sop.

To give you an idea, one of my good friends has a Tesla EV and recently covered their entire roof with solar panels.
Essentially it takes 3 full days of prime sun from the whole roof to fully charge the vehicle from empty to 100%

They have a bunch of Tesla PowerWalls to store the generated electricity and let them use it when needed (and of course charge very quickly from stored power), but the above gives you an idea of the actual numbers of sunlight and panels needed.

So if you want to charge your car from Solar, it's doable, but only by covering your entire roof at your home or business with solar panels and then having some storage for the generated power.

 

[fpgt72]

Honda has had the Clarity hydrogen powered car available for lease in California for several years.

Despite coming with free fuel, it failed to get much notice.

I don't think this will be any different.

The nice thing is they are doing it.

I watched this a little bit ago. I found it interesting that the "greenies" are having a fit that Toyota is not doing more with EV. If you don't have time for the video in a nut shell the CEO of Toyota, whos lastname is Toyota said, we are going to make everything and let the market decide, and this battery thing everyone is all hyped up about, yea the politicians are telling lies to you.

We want to sell as many cars as possible and we see the best way to do that is to make everything and see what the market decides.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The nice thing is they are doing it.

I watched this a little bit ago. I found it interesting that the "greenies" are having a fit that Toyota is not doing more with EV. If you don't have time for the video in a nut shell the CEO of Toyota, whos lastname is Toyota said, we are going to make everything and let the market decide, and this battery thing everyone is all hyped up about, yea the politicians are telling lies to you.

We want to sell as many cars as possible and we see the best way to do that is to make everything and see what the market decides.

Toyota is playing a bit of a dangerous gamble that the gasoline phase out and ban on sales deadlines both across Europe and in a growing number of USA states will be rescinded or pushed way back. It may come back to bite them in the ass hard.

For example Honda currently has to pay millions to Tesla in Europe each year to avoid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines because they sat on their asses for over a decade and didn't bother making more than a couple plug in hybrids and a couple super limited EVs none of which they bothered making many of, or advertising or continuing to make.
Their gamble that regulations would be relaxed was a failure and now they can't meet the CO2 / Km regulations.

Both Toyota and Honda have the same problem where they are rigid Japanese companies and orders come from the top down only and nobody wants to do anything different until it's way too late, or if one division does, the rest fight against them to shut the product line because "it competes with another segment."

Hydrogen powered EVs are a pie in the sky indulgence that comes out way worse than Battery powered EVs when you factor in everything involved.
Cool technology and sounds so wonderful, but the logistics make battery powered EVs look great by comparison.
The Billions Honda sunk into their project are unlikely to be recouped and cost the company dearly in putting them way behind the curve on everything else.

Hydrogen is exceptionally resource intensive to make.
Hydrogen is exceptionally resource / logistic intensive to transport / distribute.
Hydrogen powered EVs don't have better range than battery powered EVs
There simply isn't the infrastructure for widespread Hydrogen fueling and generation, it would be way less difficult to simply up the amount of electric generation and transmission capabilities.

 

[spamassassin]

Where does most of the hydrogen in the world which is used for fuel come from? Fossil fuels.

I once worked on a project to build a single stage to orbit rockets for small payload insertion into LEO. We had at one point got a grant from the feds because our rocket was powered by "alternative energy". The fuel was basically ground up rubber and aluminum plus an oxidizer but because it wasn't straight up petroleum distillate it somehow counted as alternative energy powered. The project was a total failure due to chronic abject underfunding and management talking a good game but not really having any clue of the kind of playground they were messing around in. Turned out they'd only read the sales figures and not the first thing about how actual rockets work. Still, we did come up with some really quite clever manufacturing systems during the R&D. Also, zero things exploded during the project which is always a plus with rockets.

 

[porter_jamie]

I have driven a Toyota mirai, we have a few at work. There is nowhere to refil it so we do it at work. We have h2 delivered in a tube trailer and it gets compressed into a refueller. Refuelling only takes a few minutes. It's just like an electric car to drive.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Has more potential than the faggot EV's that are out there now.

The physics is in favor of Hydrogen.

Sirhr

 

[lash]

The answer of fission. Fight me!

 

[RPN]

Hydrogen at 2000psi has 1/16 the energy density of diesel. That might matter if you want a car with decent range.

 

[acudaowner]

if it isn't this one it's a rip off


this thing sounds wicked cool but to hell with the fueling systems they want you to use If I can't refuel it from the spicket at my own home why travel 50 miles just to get fuel then drive 50 miles back just to need fuel all over again 30 more years .

 

[fpgt72]

Toyota is playing a bit of a dangerous gamble that the gasoline phase out and ban on sales deadlines both across Europe and in a growing number of USA states will be rescinded or pushed way back. It may come back to bite them in the ass hard.

For example Honda currently has to pay millions to Tesla in Europe each year to avoid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines because they sat on their asses for over a decade and didn't bother making more than a couple plug in hybrids and a couple super limited EVs none of which they bothered making many of, or advertising or continuing to make.
Their gamble that regulations would be relaxed was a failure and now they can't meet the CO2 / Km regulations.

Both Toyota and Honda have the same problem where they are rigid Japanese companies and orders come from the top down only and nobody wants to do anything different until it's way too late, or if one division does, the rest fight against them to shut the product line because "it competes with another segment."

Hydrogen powered EVs are a pie in the sky indulgence that comes out way worse than Battery powered EVs when you factor in everything involved.
Cool technology and sounds so wonderful, but the logistics make battery powered EVs look great by comparison.
The Billions Honda sunk into their project are unlikely to be recouped and cost the company dearly in putting them way behind the curve on everything else.

Hydrogen is exceptionally resource intensive to make.
Hydrogen is exceptionally resource / logistic intensive to transport / distribute.
Hydrogen powered EVs don't have better range than battery powered EVs
There simply isn't the infrastructure for widespread Hydrogen fueling and generation, it would be way less difficult to simply up the amount of electric generation and transmission capabilities.

Where does most of the hydrogen in the world which is used for fuel come from? Fossil fuels.

I once worked on a project to build a single stage to orbit rockets for small payload insertion into LEO. We had at one point got a grant from the feds because our rocket was powered by "alternative energy". The fuel was basically ground up rubber and aluminum plus an oxidizer but because it wasn't straight up petroleum distillate it somehow counted as alternative energy powered. The project was a total failure due to chronic abject underfunding and management talking a good game but not really having any clue of the kind of playground they were messing around in. Turned out they'd only read the sales figures and not the first thing about how actual rockets work. Still, we did come up with some really quite clever manufacturing systems during the R&D. Also, zero things exploded during the project which is always a plus with rockets.

I agree with you that Hydrogen is not the magic bullet as well, but IMHO it is closer then batteries. As to the making of it, I read an article that said Iceland could produce TONS of it per year due to their massive geo thermal resources. Store and transport of it is another issue that I think could be solved with 1/3 of the money pouring into battery vehicles.

Batteries are not the answer, right now you need tons of them to equal the energy in 80lbs of gasoline or diesel, and the start to finish production of 90% of the "stuff" that goes into an EV power train is so much more nasty to the "planet" as well as people it is just off the charts, but we don't see those 12yr old black kids in the mines in africa do we.

My main issue with this is all eggs in one basket approach, I think toyota is playing a smart game. I think there are places for the "pure" EV, however that place is not everywhere.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Supposedly the next generation of batteries will end the discussion. Much lighter, more charge capacity, faster charge, common materials, etc. My BIL, engineer (retired) for Rockwell says 3 to 5 years will be a game changer in batteries.

I'll believe it when I see it but I'm hopeful.

VooDoo

 

[Bender]

Has more potential than the faggot EV's that are out there now.

The physics is in favor of Hydrogen.

Sirhr

Wrong. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is a battery. While it might have a better weight to energy ratio than current batteries, since it has to be cracked it will always be a battery. Energy density will always be king. The only thing that beats hydrocarbons is nuclear fuel.

 

[fpgt72]

Wrong. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is a battery. While it might have a better weight to energy ratio than current batteries, since it has to be cracked it will always be a battery. Energy density will always be king. The only thing that beats hydrocarbons is nuclear fuel.

By "cracked" I assume you are talking about the production of it, busting apart water for example. If that is the case I disagree. You don't pump diesel out of the ground, it goes through a refinement process, I see hydrogen as the same thing.

A battery be it like what we currently think of a battery, is different, be it "electric" or "mechanical", like a flywheel.

To me a battery takes energy produced by something else and stores it. I don't think hydrogen is this, it is just a refined fuel.

 

[eflyguy]

Wrong. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is a battery.

Absolutely correct.

It is ~20% total efficiency compared to current lithium batteries.

Converting electricity to a gas, then back to electricity is just stupid.

 

[Bender]

By "cracked" I assume you are talking about the production of it, busting apart water for example. If that is the case I disagree. You don't pump diesel out of the ground, it goes through a refinement process, I see hydrogen as the same thing.

A battery be it like what we currently think of a battery, is different, be it "electric" or "mechanical", like a flywheel.

To me a battery takes energy produced by something else and stores it. I don't think hydrogen is this, it is just a refined fuel.

When you burn hydrocarbons, you are essentially burning hydrogen in longer chains. You have a net gain with hydrocarbons because it is so energy dense. Hydrogen takes more energy to crack, from another energy source, only to be used like a hydrocarbon. Net loss.

(My profession is hydrocarbon measurment and gas chromatography)

 

[Maggot]

Hydrogen has plenty of energy you just need to manage the release.

 

[Bender]

By "cracked" I assume you are talking about the production of it, busting apart water for example. If that is the case I disagree. You don't pump diesel out of the ground, it goes through a refinement process, I see hydrogen as the same thing.

A battery be it like what we currently think of a battery, is different, be it "electric" or "mechanical", like a flywheel.

To me a battery takes energy produced by something else and stores it. I don't think hydrogen is this, it is just a refined fuel.

It takes energy to produce useful amounts of hydrogen. More than you get back out. Hence, it’s energy storage, not a source.