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Honda to release Hydrogen fuel cell car in 2024

Wrong. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is a battery. While it might have a better weight to energy ratio than current batteries, since it has to be cracked it will always be a battery. Energy density will always be king. The only thing that beats hydrocarbons is nuclear fuel.
Sorry, I was too curt in my response.

Yes, hydrogen is basically a fuel cell aka a battery. But it a better one than a Lithium laptop battery!

The physics favors dead dinosaurs. Because, as you say, energy density and portability. Plus, by definition, it's organic!

But... right on!

Sirhr
 
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Hydrogen at 2000psi has 1/16 the energy density of diesel. That might matter if you want a car with decent range.
The cars store the h2 at 700bar/10100psi. The mirais have a range of about 350miles and take 6kg of h2 (I think, might be 7)
Better than a Tesla as, assuming there is somewhere to fill it you can do it in minutes.
Average diesel car does over 500 a tank usually though.
 
When you burn hydrocarbons, you are essentially burning hydrogen in longer chains. You have a net gain with hydrocarbons because it is so energy dense. Hydrogen takes more energy to crack, from another energy source, only to be used like a hydrocarbon. Net loss.

(My profession is hydrocarbon measurment and gas chromatography) 😇

I understand that and agree with it. Currently it does take more energy to "make" hydrogen then it gives back. Have we looked at the entire chain of battery production? From lithium mines all the way to having a little battery in your cell phone. I have a feeling it is going to be worse then hydrogen.

And as you are in the business, what is the by product of burning hydrogen, like in a car? As I understand it is water, is that correct?

The last question is at the end of its life, what happens. With JUST hydrogen well nothing. With the battery (I am talking just the battery not motors or controllers, just battery). They do have a life span, I read they recycle about as well as plastics, not well and again VERY expensive.

I am not trying to dig on you, I really want to understand.

The article I read about Iceland and the geo thermal was several years old, and I don't know if it was correct. But it said they use the geo thermal for all kinds of things there from basic hot water and electricity, the thought was to use it to bust down and make hydrogen, is there a flaw in that thinking, I understand the machines to make the fuel have a life span but that is the same with anything.

I think there is a place for the "pure" EV. At one time I lived 2 miles from work, and was in the center of town, everything I needed or wanted was 20 miles away at most, an EV would have been perfect back then. Now I am an hour from work and everything is at least that far away, it is just not the answer to my needs. And an electric semi truck is just flat stupid.
 
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The cars store the h2 at 700bar/10100psi. The mirais have a range of about 350miles and take 6kg of h2 (I think, might be 7)
Better than a Tesla as, assuming there is somewhere to fill it you can do it in minutes.
Average diesel car does over 500 a tank usually though.

I saw a thing that Jay Leno did years ago with a hydrogen car. He said it worked like a car should. You put fuel in it and could fill it up in 10 minutes, drive the thing 300 miles, then re fill it in 10 minutes. You could also have all the electronic doo dads you want, AC heat, heated massage seats, heated cup holders, everything and it would be just like a "normal" car, but all that electric stuff really hits the battery car hard. If it is 100 outside and you have the AC blasting full bore you really hurt the range of the car, and one article I read was the heater is just as bad if not worse....with a "normal" car heat is a thing that just comes along for the ride.

This really interests me, and I "play" with stuff like this, not hydrogen as I don't know what I would do if I made it, but I have watched those videos on YT from time to time, and always come away thinking, if I have a propane gen on the side of my house why could I not run it with hydrogen use the gen to make the electricity to "make" the hydrogen, and would I have enough watts left to run the fridge deep freeze and heater?

Sorry if this is really basic, I just don't know. I have a small solar/wind setup on the side of my shop, plan is to use that for lights and whatever else....everything short of the welders, plasma cutters, the big stuff.
 
If it is 100 outside and you have the AC blasting full bore you really hurt the range of the car,

Actually that's incorrect, running the AC while it's hot out as you are driving has a very small impact on the range of a well designed EV
If your vehicle is advanced enough to offer pre-conditioning with power from the charge plug, it becomes almost not something you calculate.

and one article I read was the heater is just as bad if not worse....with a "normal" car heat is a thing that just comes along for the ride.

That depends a lot on the design of the EV and if they just used a heater or if they used a more advanced heat pump system.
It also depends on if they are setup to scavenge excess heat from the battery and motors.
But in general the more heat you need, the more it will affect your range, partially because the batteries themselves must be heated.
Again, pre-conditioning with power from the charge plug helps.
But in the end, below zero winter is where you will see the range on EVs drop a fair bit depending on the design choices.

This really interests me, and I "play" with stuff like this, not hydrogen as I don't know what I would do if I made it, but I have watched those videos on YT from time to time, and always come away thinking, if I have a propane gen on the side of my house why could I not run it with hydrogen use the gen to make the electricity to "make" the hydrogen, and would I have enough watts left to run the fridge deep freeze and heater?

You could and Honda even prototyped this neat system for your house that hooks up to your natural gas line and makes the hydrogen you need to run your car as well as using waste heat to heat your hot water.

BUT if you go for actual efficiency, it was quite a lot more efficient to simply run your car directly off CNG (not to mention a way cheaper vehicle).
 
In 2019 a hydrogen station blew up in Norway. There were no people at the station when it exploded but people nearby were hurt by airbags going off in their cars.

1670251629953.png
 
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The cars store the h2 at 700bar/10100psi. The mirais have a range of about 350miles and take 6kg of h2 (I think, might be 7)
Better than a Tesla as, assuming there is somewhere to fill it you can do it in minutes.
Average diesel car does over 500 a tank usually though.

But diesel stinks and if you happen to get it on something theres no getting it out that Ive found. , and with having to ad the DEF, the increase in mileage doesnt offset the increase in cost.

Remember the old Huey Lewis song "I want a new drug, one that wont spill."?

I want a new energy source, one that wont pollute, 'splode in my face', is cheap, and goes a long way on a fill up.

I mean is that too much to ask? :whistle:

 
Has more potential than the faggot EV's that are out there now.

The physics is in favor of Hydrogen.

Sirhr
My Faggot EV holds WAY more guns and equipment than my Outback did...none of which is visible to a police officer. Range is about 60 miles less for ~330 miles (I actually get that as long as I'm not driving 90MPH the entire time.)...

It's is INSANELY fast and fun to drive.
 
We are not out of regular fuel sources.
They have to reinvent the game to extract their 30 pieces of silver.
Arguing over whether this or that is worth a shit is part of the game.
Hint ^^^.

R
 
We are not out of regular fuel sources.
They have to reinvent the game to extract their 30 pieces of silver.
Arguing over whether this or that is worth a shit is part of the game.
Hint ^^^.

R
The reality is that we were going to have to retool eventually when oil becomes scarce. It's really more of how is the best way to do it?

I like that Toyota is hedging it's bets... that seems a wiser way to go. Not to mention that the components for EVs and the like will also get scarce if all of the eggs are in one basket. Certainly in metro areas EVs seem to make alot of sense... Hybrids make alot more sense in very remote areas.
 
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My Faggot EV holds WAY more guns and equipment than my Outback did...none of which is visible to a police officer. Range is about 60 miles less for ~330 miles (I actually get that as long as I'm not driving 90MPH the entire time.)...

It's is INSANELY fast and fun to drive.
Hey I am fine with do t ask don’t tell ;-)

Use the gas savings To buy more ammo!

And hide your guns in one of these… for the win!!!


9DE72739-9E72-42F6-B9ED-2065655DFCC8.jpeg


Sirhr
 
Actually, my commute is 76 miles round trip a day. ~1500 miles a month, or ~18000 miles a year.

It costs me $60.00 a MONTH to charge the car.

It's not a top-of-the-line Mercedes, Porsche, etc., but it wasn't THAT expensive. However, all things considered, at my age I was going to purchase something nice... so the cost of the vehicle is a moot point.

Gas is MUCH more expensive, even now, compared to electricity (even with natural gas issues).

I was in Massachusettistan during thanksgiving, and even with the cost of electricity being nearly two times as much as Marylandistan it was still 50% cheaper than gas.

The EV is cost effective.

I've had one for 4 years now. I traded in my original one and got an crossover type... one thing it consumes is tires. Brakes... just need to be re-lubed in the tracks ever few years. No oil to replace. Battery coolant every 60-100k...
 
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Actually, my commute is 76 miles round trip a day. ~1500 miles a month, or ~18000 miles a year.

It costs me $60.00 a MONTH to charge the car.

It's not a top-of-the-line Mercedes, Porsche, etc., but it wasn't THAT expensive. However, all things considered, at my age I was going to purchase something nice... so the cost of the vehicle is a moot point.

Gas is MUCH more expensive, even now, compared to electricity (even with natural gas issues).

I was in Massachusettistan during thanksgiving, and even with the cost of electricity being nearly two times as much as Marylandistan it was still 50% cheaper than gas.

The EV is cost effective.

I've had one for 4 years now. I traded in my original one and got an crossover type... one thing it consumes is tires. Brakes... just need to be re-lubed in the tracks ever few years. No oil to replace. Battery coolant every 60-100k...
Wait until you, or the poor schmuck who buys it from you, has to replace the $4-5000 battery.
 
Wait until you, or the poor schmuck who buys it from you, has to replace the $4-5000 battery.
Yeah, if ONLY it was THAT cheap! Try again... $20,000 bucks.

However, they are getting 10 years out of them without a significant problem. Like anything else, you have to be smart about how you maintain it.

I had a sedan version of the car for 3 years and put 45k on it. They gave me ~50k as a trade it for it. I bought it for $58k and drove it like I stole it for 3+ years.

The big issue with batteries is over charging (Toyota is a MASTER as battery life, and Tesla it pretty good as well.):

If you know you will not be getting on the road for a long road trip (you'll be tooling around in town, for example), you charge the battery so that it's always between 20-80%. Otherwise, you charge it to 100% and go on your trip.

Tesla has cars that have over 250,000 miles on them that have 90% of their original capacity. Which would make that a great used car if the person was taking care of all the normal crap (tires, ball joints, bearings, etc.).

Toyota's are just the uber mench of Hybrids... They've got alot industrial knowledge.
 
Yeah, if ONLY it was THAT cheap! Try again... $20,000 bucks.

However, they are getting 10 years out of them without a significant problem. Like anything else, you have to be smart about how you maintain it.

I had a sedan version of the car for 3 years and put 45k on it. They gave me ~50k as a trade it for it. I bought it for $58k and drove it like I stole it for 3+ years.

The big issue with batteries is over charging (Toyota is a MASTER as battery life, and Tesla it pretty good as well.):

If you know you will not be getting on the road for a long road trip (you'll be tooling around in town, for example), you charge the battery so that it's always between 20-80%. Otherwise, you charge it to 100% and go on your trip.

Tesla has cars that have over 250,000 miles on them that have 90% of their original capacity. Which would make that a great used car if the person was taking care of all the normal crap (tires, ball joints, bearings, etc.).

Toyota's are just the uber mench of Hybrids... They've got alot industrial knowledge.
I have a 2022 Corolla that gets 52+/- mpg hiway or city. Back roads driving Ive gotten 58. The salesperson said the battery is guaranteed for 160K but they have them come in with 300K on them. The Toyota is about $3500-4000 to replace.

As to longevity, my first new vehicle was an 87 Toyota pick up, R22 engine. I drove that truck 375,000 miles and it started everytime I turned the key. Drove it to Panama and back.
 
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Yep… Toyotas are fantastic.

I’m not sure yet whether the EV decent replacements for gasoline engines or more like diesels at this point.

We’re just gonna have to see what happens going forward.

Without a doubt, the Toyota hybrid have definitely shown that they can last without a problem.

And there’s no doubt about the fact of the Toyota Corolla is a pretty darn good car if you want a normal car.

Of course, these days I’m much more interested in a Lexus. 🤣
 
Yep… Toyotas are fantastic.

I’m not sure yet whether the EV decent replacements for gasoline engines or more like diesels at this point.

We’re just gonna have to see what happens going forward.

Without a doubt, the Toyota hybrid have definitely shown that they can last without a problem.

And there’s no doubt about the fact of the Toyota Corolla is a pretty darn good car if you want a normal car.

Of course, these days I’m much more interested in a Lexus. 🤣

Honda Accord Hybrid Touring

A really good hybrid that almost nobody knows about because Honda is stupid.

Better than the Toyota offerings, but again it's not advertised.
 
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Honda has been a bunch of weridos with their Hybrids.... limited production, limited support... I stay away from them.
 
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Honda has been a bunch of weridos with their Hybrids.... limited production, limited support... I stay away from them.

I drove a 2017 version of that for about 5 years and 100k
As good or better fuel economy than the Prius
Drove like a sports car if you wanted to
Very comfortable and roomy
No problems with it at all, just normal scheduled mantinence
(once I learned that if you leave the fob in your pocket your keys will press the buttons down and that will run the main battery down)
didn't make you look like you liked the smell of your own farts (southpark reference)

But yep, they were trying to do 4 different things at once with a hybrid, did only 1 of them correctly and didn't want to advertise or push them because some other division didn't like the hybrid division.

As I always joke, I could greatly increase Honda's share price by taking a baseball bat to the boardroom HA!
 
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The reality is that we were going to have to retool eventually when oil becomes scarce. It's really more of how is the best way to do it?

I like that Toyota is hedging it's bets... that seems a wiser way to go. Not to mention that the components for EVs and the like will also get scarce if all of the eggs are in one basket. Certainly in metro areas EVs seem to make alot of sense... Hybrids make alot more sense in very remote areas.
We have got a couple hundred years at current rate of usage.
Ample time to find reasonable solutions.

R
 
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There was this one company that had created some sort of hydrogen fuel cell that was a fuel storage cell… And what they were doing is they were putting this thing underneath the entire bottom of the car, and it would allow hydrogen to soak into it and then it would release it has the car needed it.

Imagine something that looks like a big hole piece of recycled tire that absorbed a shit load of hydrogen gas. Effectively what I did is it prevented the hydrogen from being able to deflagrate.
 
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Actually, my commute is 76 miles round trip a day. ~1500 miles a month, or ~18000 miles a year.

It costs me $60.00 a MONTH to charge the car.

It's not a top-of-the-line Mercedes, Porsche, etc., but it wasn't THAT expensive. However, all things considered, at my age I was going to purchase something nice... so the cost of the vehicle is a moot point.

Gas is MUCH more expensive, even now, compared to electricity (even with natural gas issues).

I was in Massachusettistan during thanksgiving, and even with the cost of electricity being nearly two times as much as Marylandistan it was still 50% cheaper than gas.

The EV is cost effective.

I've had one for 4 years now. I traded in my original one and got an crossover type... one thing it consumes is tires. Brakes... just need to be re-lubed in the tracks ever few years. No oil to replace. Battery coolant every 60-100k...


May I suggest a paint job???

ge.jpg



Sirhr
 
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I understand that and agree with it. Currently it does take more energy to "make" hydrogen then it gives back. Have we looked at the entire chain of battery production? From lithium mines all the way to having a little battery in your cell phone. I have a feeling it is going to be worse then hydrogen.

And as you are in the business, what is the by product of burning hydrogen, like in a car? As I understand it is water, is that correct?

The last question is at the end of its life, what happens. With JUST hydrogen well nothing. With the battery (I am talking just the battery not motors or controllers, just battery). They do have a life span, I read they recycle about as well as plastics, not well and again VERY expensive.

I am not trying to dig on you, I really want to understand.

The article I read about Iceland and the geo thermal was several years old, and I don't know if it was correct. But it said they use the geo thermal for all kinds of things there from basic hot water and electricity, the thought was to use it to bust down and make hydrogen, is there a flaw in that thinking, I understand the machines to make the fuel have a life span but that is the same with anything.

I think there is a place for the "pure" EV. At one time I lived 2 miles from work, and was in the center of town, everything I needed or wanted was 20 miles away at most, an EV would have been perfect back then. Now I am an hour from work and everything is at least that far away, it is just not the answer to my needs. And an electric semi truck is just flat stupid.
Geothermal works really well for them as it is abundant and they have a low population demand. Issue with Hydrogen is infrastructure does not really exist for it on the level needed to make it practical. The other issue is without abundant nuclear energy on our power generation grid, we have to mainly rely on natural gas and coal power plants to create the energy needed to crack hydrogen from water. That is where the loss happens. As for emissions. True, hydrogen is extremely clean to combust, but the issue with that again is we’ve been lied too for 40 years about Carbon Dioxide being a pollutant. It’s literally what plantlife uses for food. When we get a 100-200 year view from above the situation, we see it’s all about control. Not to mention the huge strain on our clap-trap electrical grid either charging EV’s or cracking hydrogen to power our cars. There is nothing inherently wrong with using gas or coal to create electricity other than virtue signaling political optics. At the current consumption rate of coal In Wyoming, we have 200+ Years worth. It’s clean, it’s there, its abundant and infrastructure exists. Same with oil and gas. Just last year here in Wyoming again, they found a new 1trillion barrel of oil formation.

I am not opposed to alternative fuels. But Ignoring what we have access to and sacrificing our standard of living under penalty of law is not what I call societal progress.
 
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How does the cost of Hydrogen stack up against gasoline?​

September 6, 2022

By Gary Yowell

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCV) are zero emission vehicles (ZEVs) which comply with California’s ZEV mandate and internal combustion engine ban. One challenge facing FCVs is the high fuel cost – due to hydrogen’s unique physical properties. High gasoline prices beyond $4.00 per gallon have recently made it into headlines nationwide; meanwhile, since 2014, hydrogen in California has retailed for approximately $14.00 per kilogram (kg), which is equivalent to $14/gallon gasoline. According to hydrogen advocates, FCVs’ high fuel economy helps keep FCV fueling costs competitive with gasoline-fueled vehicles, and that future hydrogen fuel cost will be lower due to higher volumes or greater economies of scale.

Let’s look at the data to see whether FCV fueling costs really fall in line with gasoline. The figure below displays fuel cost per mile using California’s historic gasoline and hydrogen retail prices to show the fuel cost per mile for FCVs and gasoline vehicles. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), 2022 Fuel Economy Guide the average fuel economy of a FCVs is 60 miles per kg (mpk). On average, gasoline cars get 30 mpg and midsize gasoline hybrids 42 mpg. As can be seen in the figure, FCV fuel cost is three times higher per mile than a gasoline hybrid and two times higher than that of a conventional gasoline vehicle. To be competitive with hybrid gasoline vehicles on a per-mile basis in 2021, hydrogen needed to have been priced at $5.88/kg; hydrogen retailed at $16.50/kg that year.

Figure 1. Cost Per Mile for Fuel Cell, Hybrid Gasoline, and Conventional Gasoline Vehicles (2013-2021)

Fig-1-Hydrogen-700x363.png


Sources: Stillwater Associates analysis of U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) regular gasoline prices, CEC Hydrogen Fuel Cell Program

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) and Washington state’s Department of Ecology (DoE) indicate that hydrogen fuel retail prices will be lower in the future than they are today. These claims defy historic trends of a similar gaseous fuel – compressed natural gas (CNG), which has been retailed in California for over 27 years. Given our 20-years’ experience evaluating each cost component required to retail hydrogen for FCVs, and all the inherent uncertainties and assumptions involved. We chose a simpler more transparent method to illustrate potential hydrogen retail price trends, almost absent governmental intervention. CNG has similar physical properties to hydrogen, albeit at a lower cost than hydrogen to distribute and compress. One can estimate hydrogen retail prices from the last 25 years of utilities’ (PG&E) natural gas purchase costs and compression expenses to retail CNG prices. With small adjustments, hydrogen retail prices can be derived from CNG prices by adjusting for higher hydrogen pressures, 80% methane-to-hydrogen conversion efficiency, and compressing 408 cubic feet (ft3) of hydrogen gas vs 100 ft3 of methane.(1)

The figure below shows the historic CNG case-based hydrogen retail prices past and projected contrasted against historic California retail hydrogen prices, CARB- and DoE-forecasted hydrogen retail prices. CARB and DoE’s lower cost future projections defy historic trends, current and projected PG&E CNG-based hydrogen retail empirical evidence. It is important to note that California’s historic retail hydrogen prices are significantly lower than market conditions, thanks to the California Energy Commission’s (CEC) grants from legislation(2) that pays 100% of a hydrogen retail station $1.0-$1.5 million cost and, at times, the hydrogen station maintenance.

Figure 2 Hydrogen Historic and Forecasted Retail Prices

Fig2-Hydrogen-700x333.png


Source: PG&E Tariffs, Department of Ecology Clean Fuel Cost Benefit Analysis Report, CARB ZEV Program

Importantly, research goals of future lower hydrogen cost are made for uncompressedhydrogen; these claims correspond to hydrogen production cost only, which makes up less than 20% of hydrogen total retail cost – compression, and delivery make up the bulk of the retail cost. In 2021, hydrogen retailed $8.50/kg to $10.80/kg higher than gasoline prices matching the same fuel cost per mile for hybrids or conventional gasoline vehicles respectively. Hydrogen has been used commercially for over 80 years, so it is well developed. Stillwater Associates knows of no research or pending breakthroughs sufficient to bridge hydrogen’s two to three times higher fuel cost compared to gasoline vehicles.



(1) Hydrogen is sold as 1 kg (408 cubic feet of H2) whereas CNG is sold on a therm (100 ft3) basis.

(2) Assembly Bill 8 Assembly Bill 8 (AB 8, Perea, Chapter 401, Statutes of 2013) directed the California Energy Commission to allocate up to $20 million annually from the Alternative and Renewable Fuel and Vehicle Technology Program for development of light duty hydrogen refueling stations for fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs).
 
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Geothermal works really well for them as it is abundant and they have a low population demand. Issue with Hydrogen is infrastructure does not really exist for it on the level needed to make it practical. The other issue is without abundant nuclear energy on our power generation grid, we have to mainly rely on natural gas and coal power plants to create the energy needed to crack hydrogen from water. That is where the loss happens. As for emissions. True, hydrogen is extremely clean to combust, but the issue with that again is we’ve been lied too for 40 years about Carbon Dioxide being a pollutant. It’s literally what plantlife uses for food. When we get a 100-200 year view from above the situation, we see it’s all about control. Not to mention the huge strain on our clap-trap electrical grid either charging EV’s or cracking hydrogen to power our cars. There is nothing inherently wrong with using gas or coal to create electricity other than virtue signaling political optics. At the current consumption rate of coal In Wyoming, we have 200+ Years worth. It’s clean, it’s there, its abundant and infrastructure exists. Same with oil and gas. Just last year here in Wyoming again, they found a new 1trillion barrel of oil formation.

I am not opposed to alternative fuels. But Ignoring what we have access to and sacrificing our standard of living under penalty of law is not what I call societal progress.
A lot of what you say is true, but it’s also only partially true.

for example, you meantioned carbon dioxide being a pollutant, and not really believing that… But you don’t take into consideration the amount of plant life that is no longer covering the surface of the earth. Therefore, it only makes sense that there is a significant impact when you don’t have enough plants to be absorbing all the carbon dioxide.

So there’s a lot more to all of the different points that you made and that’s where the problem lay…

If we have enough nuclear reactors to provide all the power that we need, then we don’t have enough nuclear fuel for more than about 75 to 100 years. So that’s a big issue….. not to mention we’ve been decommissioning them at an alarming rate because they’re so expensive to operate…

In to order have enough electricity we would need to have combination of solar, wind, geothermal, nuclear, etc. Honestly, from an energy independence perspective, it makes a lot of sense to diversify the crap out of things so that we’re not beholden to other countries for power generation.

Not to mention that with all of those things being used, we would be able to generate electricity relatively cheaply, compared to what we’ve been seeing… and at that point hydrogen might makes sense.
 
A lot of what you say is true, but it’s also only partially true.

for example, you meantioned carbon dioxide being a pollutant, and not really believing that… But you don’t take into consideration the amount of plant life that is no longer covering the surface of the earth. Therefore, it only makes sense that there is a significant impact when you don’t have enough plants to be absorbing all the carbon dioxide.

So there’s a lot more to all of the different points that you made and that’s where the problem lay…

If we have enough nuclear reactors to provide all the power that we need, then we don’t have enough nuclear fuel for more than about 75 to 100 years. So that’s a big issue….. not to mention we’ve been decommissioning them at an alarming rate because they’re so expensive to operate…

In to order have enough electricity we would need to have combination of solar, wind, geothermal, nuclear, etc. Honestly, from an energy independence perspective, it makes a lot of sense to diversify the crap out of things so that we’re not beholden to other countries for power generation.

Not to mention that with all of those things being used, we would be able to generate electricity relatively cheaply, compared to what we’ve been seeing… and at that point hydrogen might makes sense.
That is a false assumption, there are actually more trees in North America than there were 100 years ago. I can understand how someone might believe that with 60+ years of propaganda. But the reality of the situation is carbon dioxide levels have been astronomically higher. Especially during the early history of the earth. How do you think we could get dinosaurs that were 100 feet long? That would all have to be supported by an incredibly damp and high energy content Environment. And that is only thinking and discussing dryland, true carbon consumption comes in the form of sea life and plankton, houses and uses up more carbon dioxide almost by a 3 to 1 scale or more. You need to understand the history of life of man on the actual timeline of the earth.

As far as nuclear fuel, that is another misconception. We have only stopped mining and looking for uranium because of the governmental red tape. Not to mention if you run the fuel after it’s been enriched back through the nuclear plant, You would even get more energy out. The issue is that’s how you create weapons grade plutonium, and since humans can’t be trusted with that, it gets red taped and regulated into oblivion.

Nuclear really is where it is at, I agree 100% if we got out of the way and use the new technology and reactors we could create very inexpensive electricity there by making hydrogen a decent alternative. As above, in the article it states that 80% of the cost of hydrogen is simply in the compression to get the energy densities up. I’m not saying coal and natural gas are the only fuels. I am saying that they are economically viable and should be used while we continue to grow a safe and effective nuclear program. Wind and solar are a net loss. The footprint of a solar and wind farm are massive. Come out to Wyoming and see what they’ve done to my beautiful state. The footprint of a nuclear plant isn’t even 1000th the size. And also creates a much more stable energy source than solar and wind.