Is something going on in Ukraine?

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#11,351
eca7891 said:
Both are.

There are no good guys or right side.

Level the whole nation and call it a draw.

This is the best possible outcome. Peace will not be allowed and neither side can afford to lose. Pushing this to the end where one side wins will cause a major collapse of some sort or another.

There are no good options available. Only less bad ones.

Even a draw has major downsides.
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You are sorta correct, half correct.....and then again not correct at all IMHO.

If it is possible for a human to look on this without his personal feelings coming into the mix I doubt it.

You say Level the whole nation, what nation?

I do think there is a good guy, and a right side.

I see this entire thing starting and look back on it with a different eye then I had at that time. It seems to me that the troops sat on the russian side of the border for a very long time. Why. Some of us know it is not good to put an "army" in the field and give them nothing to do, it will fall apart. Why did it sit there so long, I have a feeling that things we still have no idea about are being talked about in back rooms everywhere.

Perhaps it is my personal feelings on our current .gov, but I think russia found out something in Ukraine and they did not like it one bit. My bet is the biolabs. That I think was their line in the sand. I really think Putin could care less about if americans want to die their hair cut their penis in half and call themselves women, fine you do you, but you put a bio lab this close to my home turf and I am going to have a problem. Make all the money you want off your citizens, I don't care, but don't put that lab there. This group in our .gov is the kind of people that are so arrogant they are not going to do it. Finally the trigger was pulled. They know the west and the media, so why even let it out, everything is the fault of the russians already, why bother.

Where the mistake was made is the russians did not figure on the west being this corrupt. The rot goes deeper.

There are good guys, and a right side, and it ain't us sad to say.
 
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#11,353
fpgt72 said:
You are sorta correct, half correct.....and then again not correct at all IMHO.

If it is possible for a human to look on this without his personal feelings coming into the mix I doubt it.

You say Level the whole nation, what nation?

I do think there is a good guy, and a right side.

I see this entire thing starting and look back on it with a different eye then I had at that time. It seems to me that the troops sat on the russian side of the border for a very long time. Why. Some of us know it is not good to put an "army" in the field and give them nothing to do, it will fall apart. Why did it sit there so long, I have a feeling that things we still have no idea about are being talked about in back rooms everywhere.

Perhaps it is my personal feelings on our current .gov, but I think russia found out something in Ukraine and they did not like it one bit. My bet is the biolabs. That I think was their line in the sand. I really think Putin could care less about if americans want to die their hair cut their penis in half and call themselves women, fine you do you, but you put a bio lab this close to my home turf and I am going to have a problem. Make all the money you want off your citizens, I don't care, but don't put that lab there. This group in our .gov is the kind of people that are so arrogant they are not going to do it. Finally the trigger was pulled. They know the west and the media, so why even let it out, everything is the fault of the russians already, why bother.

Where the mistake was made is the russians did not figure on the west being this corrupt. The rot goes deeper.

There are good guys, and a right side, and it ain't us sad to say.
Click to expand...
Yes. Bio labs, corruption, US influence and Ukraine’s push towards NATO. All of that caused this

Putin is not the good guy, he is just doing what he has to do in order to maintain his power and protect Russia.

I still believe turning Ukraine into a no man’s land is the best outcome.
 
#11,354
fpgt72 said:
It seems to me that the troops sat on the russian side of the border for a very long time. Why. Some of us know it is not good to put an "army" in the field and give them nothing to do, it will fall apart. Why did it sit there so long, I have a feeling that things we still have no idea about are being talked about in back rooms everywhere.
Click to expand...
Because there were still cross “minks” border shellings occurring and the west was helping ukraine build an army. Remember in 2018 when zelensky sailed two gun boats and a tug boat under the Crimean bridge.

www.aljazeera.com

Russia seizes Ukrainian ships near annexed Crimea

Russian ship opens fire on Ukrainian vessels near the Kerch Strait, wounding sailors, as UN Security Council to convene.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

Thats why he kept forces. Constant probing was occurring.
 
#11,355
eca7891 said:
I still believe turning Ukraine into a no man’s land is the best outcome.
Click to expand...
I wonder if that is exactly what will happen. Makes for a clean, logical easy off ramp for NATO (probably exactly why it won't happen).

Western Ukraine (now "New Ukraine") will be severely handicapped and prevented from arming up again. Russia won't make the same mistake twice after trusting the West with the Minsk Accords/Agreements. They basically used a FALSE agreement they never intended to honor to stall and arm up/train Ukraine for this current conflict. Germany has admitted this officially.

All the EU nations that would have been useful as mediators were complicit and have lost all credibility in acting as neutral parties (including the Swiss). More short sightedness on the part of the West.

Eastern Ukraine (will be known as маленькая россия), the 25% of the Eastern part of the country will be under Russian control as a buffer to extend the distance of NATO from Russia proper.

In the middle will be a "demilitarized zone" like the Korean one.

The Russians are expecting and preparing for a very large conflict. Western powers are not prepared for it.

I firmly believe NATO will be the first to use tactical nukes if anyone does.

We need an off ramp because the assh*ts that got us into this mess are only getting us deeper and deeper into it.

I could see a brief conflict and an Afghanistan/Vietnam type pullout leaving the Ukranians screwed over.

Personally, I am so deeply frustrated that this administration is burning through more of our reputation and goodwill in the world.

Reputation that is hard earned from the blood of patriots and easily lost from ________ (you fill in the blank).
 
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#11,356
DarnYankeeUSMC said:
I have freedom of speech. But I don't know how that relates to the topic we are discussing.

I think that the world has proven that there's majority of people that believe what they are told. But you won't find that statistic with the people here
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I'm surprised at how many people here refuse to fall in line with the narrative. It makes me wonder if it's just us, or if there is a disenfranchised majority out there who think the same way, which the news never admits to.

there are a handful of pro-regime mouthpieces here, although I have not seen the John McCain bot since his little fuckup the other day.
 
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#11,357
Putin's just cleaning out the people who will stand up to Russia when Russia takes over Ukraine.
Unless Ukraine can hit Russia 200 miles inside Russian borders to stop the flow of fuel and supplies, Ukraine can't take stuff back.
Ukraine has to hit manufacturing etc.. to stop the flow. Hit airbases to eliminate planes, etc.
It's equivalent of watching the US try to stop the flow of arms into Vietnam, when the route was going through Cambodia.
 
#11,358
eca7891 said:
Yes. Bio labs, corruption, US influence and Ukraine’s push towards NATO. All of that caused this

Putin is not the good guy, he is just doing what he has to do in order to maintain his power and protect Russia.

I still believe turning Ukraine into a no man’s land is the best outcome.
Click to expand...

Protect Russia, protect his country. I don't think that makes him the bad guy. I think he was forced to "protect" his country. The big fat kid on the playground that kept getting poked and poked, teased and teased, finally he snapped and said enough is enough.
 
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#11,359
fpgt72 said:
Protect Russia, protect his country. I don't think that makes him the bad guy. I think he was forced to "protect" his country. The big fat kid on the playground that kept getting poked and poked, teased and teased, finally he snapped and said enough is enough.
Click to expand...
I agree.

But that makes him far from good.
 
#11,361
eca7891 said:
I agree.

But that makes him far from good.
Click to expand...

In general I can't say one way or the other, all I can go on.....all any of us can go on is what we are told about the man. Knowing all we know now, what should I think. Me I am going to stand on the fence and not make a judgement.

But we are on this one specific topic, invasion of Ukraine. And he is not the monster we are told he is. And if we look to people running from the country to escape the "draft". Ok, I have little doubt people are doing that, but how many. I have a feeling in russia they show a news story about the US and it says they are burning down their cities all over.....and yes it is true, SOME are but not a majority.

Long winded way of saying I don't know anymore, but this specific instance he is not the bad guy.
 
#11,362
babyguppy said:
Putin's just cleaning out the people who will stand up to Russia when Russia takes over Ukraine.
Unless Ukraine can hit Russia 200 miles inside Russian borders to stop the flow of fuel and supplies, Ukraine can't take stuff back.
Ukraine has to hit manufacturing etc.. to stop the flow. Hit airbases to eliminate planes, etc.
It's equivalent of watching the US try to stop the flow of arms into Vietnam, when the route was going through Cambodia.
Click to expand...
If Ukraine/NATO strike into Russia proper, that WILL escalate tremendously.

At that point I couldn't blame Moscow for striking at London, Warsaw, etc.
 
#11,365
My wife made a really good point a moment ago. Given that Turkiye is recovering from the earthquake, they likely won't be able to politically justify using resources for WAR, when there are so many citizens that need help.

Russia is assisting Turkiye in S&R right now. Funny how we don't hear about the EU or US jumping to support them or fundraising or Westerners doing stupid virtue signaling on social media.

Not white enough? Not Western enough? Doesn't act like a vassal state?

Or because it's hard to respect a country named after a fat flightless bird?

(Even when you add the "e" at the end to it.)
 
#11,367
eca7891 said:
Well my neighbor is Russian, still has family in Russia and travels to Russia.

I guess I have a little more insight.
Click to expand...

It does give you a different look having someone you know being "native" to a specific area. I have been lucky to know a few people from other parts of the world, sitting here thinking how could I have, I really dislike people in general why do I know so many folk from other parts of the world......

I had a friend that came over right after the wall fell, she has very interesting stories about life in Russia when it was the USSR, and shortly after the big mess that it was.

I could babble along like usual about the different stories from other folk I have known, but am trying to stay on task.
 
#11,368
Darayavaus said:
I'm surprised at how many people here refuse to fall in line with the narrative. It makes me wonder if it's just us, or if there is a disenfranchised majority out there who think the same way, which the news never admits to.

there are a handful of pro-regime mouthpieces here, although I have not seen the John McCain bot since his little fuckup the other day.
Click to expand...
Listened to an interesting interview Mike Rowe did with Todd Rose the CEO of Populace. They've done some interesting studies about people's private opinions.
pca.st

295: Todd Rose—We're Still We the People - The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

What started as a series of short mysteries for the curious mind with a short attention span has evolved into enlightening conversations for the not-so-short attention span. Whether it’s a short mystery, a long conversation, or an audio book, The Way I Heard It is a veritable box of chocolates...
pca.st pca.st
populace.org

Populace

Populace is a think tank committed to build a world where all people have the opportunity to pursue a fulfilling life in a thriving society.
populace.org populace.org

Just reading through the summaries of what they've found is interesting.
populace.org

Home — Populace

populace.org populace.org
 
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#11,369
pineoak said:
rageagainstwar.com

Home - Rage Against the War Machine

Feb 17, 2024: Unite with RAWM, Libertarians, Peoples Party to end the Deep State. Break secrecy, cut military budget, reclaim our liberties. #DefeatDeepState
rageagainstwar.com rageagainstwar.com

I am ready should one arise locally to join a peace protest, protesting war in parts of the world that do not directly threaten us

The "leaders" of the western world are determined to attack Russia and provoke China and do everything possible to send young sons and people to their deaths

We have troops already positioned in Poland for ground war with Russia

Is it for enrichment of their bank accounts? Is it because they are sociopaths that don't care if people's kids die as long as they get more power?

Once NATO forces go toe to toe with Russia, it will of course escalate and end up becoming large scale

The United States cannot afford to fight a war on Russia's doorstep, I actually think we'd lose given that we'd have to transport every bullet, every soldier, every piece of equipment overseas; our NATO allies have nothing in their armories left

Even worse, once we are fully engaged with Russia, early April will be when China may decide to invade Taiwan which would then result in us fighting a second war... on China's doorstep

Then we would have two theaters of war to contend with simultaneously with the number two and number three near peer military powers in the world

With less than half a million active duty in US Armed Forces, we would be stretched awfully thin in a very short amount of time

Logistically speaking, we would fail in short order

The Russians fight methodically and slowly grinding away, they use a war of attrition as they have for decades

The United States cannot afford to fight that kind of war or fight against that kind of opponents, if we lose a single aircraft carrier to china with 4000+ soldiers in one day we will lose the momentum and support of the American people, as a country, we simply will not except huge losses

I see us going toward a dead end of our own choosing, I don't see China or Russia enticing us or in trapping us into this

I see us pushing our way into a dead end

Until the western and American people start to wake up and demand our "leaders" stop pushing, I fear best case scenario is huge loss of life around the world, including Americans

(we're struggling enough with recruiting now, can you imagine how difficult it would be to recruit for a volunteer army immediately after losing huge numbers in an unnecessary and unpopular war?)- we would be left even more vulnerable after, we always need to think about not just exit strategy from a conflict, but how will we rebuild and what condition will we be in after should another threat arise before we can fully rebuild

Worst case scenario, global nuclear war.

Logically speaking, there is nothing to be gained by moving forward down the path we're on unless you are desperately trying to hold onto American hegemony and want to continue to dominate the world

For average Americans, we don't want need or appreciate this

We want a strong military to protect us, but American interests are not met by going toe to toe with Russia

I hope that you will think about this and consider what you can do earlier now today to help stop and slow this

because in the end… We are going to regret it like Vietnam

The painful part of watching history unfold, is knowing that it's just going to repeat itself

The fear is that it's going to repeat itself with a big bang ending this time
Click to expand...
The US may very well find itself having to threaten to use nukes like some regional power just trying to survive. Going from the favoured son, to some random cousin hoping for a decent seat at the table. Idiot citizens voted for this.
 
#11,370
pineoak said:
Timing really puts us in a hard spot as we could be facing 2 near peers in conflict simultaneously on the other side of the planet. Logistically, I do not believe we have the people or ability to do that effectively. Though if China does blockade Taiwan I see us sending ships anyway. Whether we actually trade missiles and such is a different story.
Click to expand...
We took 2 peer conflicts off the qudrennial review under KLINTON....now makes total sense doesn't it?
 
#11,371
None of this makes any sense.

Clinton removed two peer conflicts - "bad"
Trump pulled our troops home - "bad" (from a McCain-type point of view)
Obama cut defense spending - "bad"
Biden wants to cut military spending - "bad"
Biden weakens the military with woke bullshit so that even with proper weapon system we are combat ineffective - very bad

But we still hear that the MIC is gunning for war for cash. If that's the case, the MIC should have hated all 4 as they reduced their top line revenue.

Something doesn't add up.
 
#11,372
pmclaine said:
Sub Texas economy and more interested in personal enrichment and the decadence of the oligarchs.

If they ever got their shit together and truly commercialized their resources they would be a powerhouse.

Sadly corruption and secrecy runs deep from having lived a history in extremis.

Right now, up until the Ukraine war, was about as good as it gets for them.

Had “Z Puppet” not been turning the eastern side of the country into some shelled WWI hellscape since 2014 guessing Putin would have been happy with his one Black Sea port.
Click to expand...
They can’t get their story straight. Either Russia is some broke ass goof who can’t project fuck all, or a superpower bent on global domination. Which is it? Along with that, the US military, which many of us served in, has been starting wars all over the world for centuries to kill those who stood in the way of our domination, but Russia going next door is an existential threat to the existence of the west. You can tell who the rich privileged know it alls are. The rest of their crew are the same idiots that get in fist fights over professional sports.
 
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#11,373
pineoak said:
If Ukraine/NATO strike into Russia proper, that WILL escalate tremendously.

At that point I couldn't blame Moscow for striking at London, Warsaw, etc.
Click to expand...
They have. Hit airbases, the Crimean bridge, border towns. Etc

Russia responded by bombing the shit out of Ukraine’s Electric Grid and water infrastructure.
 
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#11,374
lariat said:
None of this makes any sense.

Clinton removed two peer conflicts - "bad"
Trump pulled our troops home - "bad" (from a McCain-type point of view)
Obama cut defense spending - "bad"
Biden wants to cut military spending - "bad"
Biden weakens the military with woke bullshit so that even with proper weapon system we are combat ineffective - very bad

But we still hear that the MIC is gunning for war for cash. If that's the case, the MIC should have hated all 4 as they reduced their top line revenue.

Something doesn't add up.
Click to expand...
You missed where they drained the SPR…
 
#11,375
eca7891 said:
I agree.

But that makes him far from good.
Click to expand...
All the same, this TJ quote also addresses that. "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."

Show me a government that is good. Through out history. The closest thing to "good government" in the history of the world has been our Confederation and then early republic, Circa 1777 to just before the Civil War.

In ancient times, the Greeks were awful. Arguably worse and more despotic than the Persians. Babylon, Egypt, Assyria? Forget about it. The Romans were bastards. The Byzantines were corrupt beyond measure. Tribal governments always descended into Might Makes Right with a warrior class and a peasant class. Medieval Feudalism? we are approaching that system again. Monarchy and aristocracy? again, the vast majority make Putin look enlightened. Human government is far from good. Because people absolutely suck. Biden sucks. He and the people in power now are arguably worse than Russia. The current US government sucks and are hell-bent on taking everything you own.

Our Early American Republic based on moral enlightenment ideals is a total one-off which will never be repeated under the current idiocracy.
 
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#11,376
I don't remember if it's the Swedes or Norway...

Whom ever is water it was near had to have been in on it as their sonar nets would've known there was intrusion into their waters

Bear in mind this article is based on an "anonymous" source, so take it with a grain of salt

Nevertheless... it reads like a spy novel...

seymourhersh.substack.com

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now
seymourhersh.substack.com seymourhersh.substack.com
 
Last edited:
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#11,377
#11,378
In Ukraine, organizations and enterprising indiviuals are offering various solutions for avoiding mobilization.

An advertisement is shown where Ukrainian men are offered to have their "arms and legs broken" so that they will be saved from the brutal mobilization.

It is written that 📝: "A surgeon with many years of experience will break your arms under anesthesia." Closed fracture, a hundred percent guarantee! It will be healed within a month, and you can defer mobilization for six months.Best price is guaranteed.Complete anonymity is guaranteed!

photo_2023-02-07_17-34-37.jpg
 
#11,379
pineoak said:
My wife made a really good point a moment ago. Given that Turkiye is recovering from the earthquake, they likely won't be able to politically justify using resources for WAR, when there are so many citizens that need help.

Russia is assisting Turkiye in S&R right now. Funny how we don't hear about the EU or US jumping to support them or fundraising or Westerners doing stupid virtue signaling on social media.

Not white enough? Not Western enough? Doesn't act like a vassal state?

Or because it's hard to respect a country named after a fat flightless bird?

(Even when you add the "e" at the end to it.)
Click to expand...

Maybe it’s not about race but about Turkeys behavior during the last thousand years.
 
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#11,382
GreenGO Juan said:
They have. Hit airbases, the Crimean bridge, border towns. Etc

Russia responded by bombing the shit out of Ukraine’s Electric Grid and water infrastructure.
Click to expand...
Speaking of infrastructure, seen this?

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

Planning for the operation in 2021? That’s interesting.

I’m not looking forward to the retaliation
 
#11,383
W54/XM-388 said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

'US carried out Nord Stream bomb attack in top secret Biden-led plan'

U.S. Navy diving teams carried out the attack against the Nord Stream pipelines during a top secret mission overseen by President Joe Biden, a bombshell report claims.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Pretty much now way to deny it now and it's looking pretty bad for Norway also being a bad actor.
Click to expand...
232593 said:
Speaking of infrastructure, seen this?

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

Planning for the operation in 2021? That’s interesting.

I’m not looking forward to the retaliation
Click to expand...
Seymour Hersh committed suicide in 3... 2... 1...
 
#11,384
I almost had to look. I thought Wade had joined the conversation
Darayavaus said:
All the same, this TJ quote also addresses that. "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."

Show me a government that is good. Through out history. The closest thing to "good government" in the history of the world has been our Confederation and then early republic, Circa 1777 to just before the Civil War.

In ancient times, the Greeks were awful. Arguably worse and more despotic than the Persians. Babylon, Egypt, Assyria? Forget about it. The Romans were bastards. The Byzantines were corrupt beyond measure. Tribal governments always descended into Might Makes Right with a warrior class and a peasant class. Medieval Feudalism? we are approaching that system again. Monarchy and aristocracy? again, the vast majority make Putin look enlightened. Human government is far from good. Because people absolutely suck. Biden sucks. He and the people in power now are arguably worse than Russia. The current US government sucks and are hell-bent on taking everything you own.

Our Early American Republic based on moral enlightenment ideals is a total one-off which will never be repeated under the current idiocracy.
Click to expand...
 
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#11,385
theLBC said:
www.thetimes.co.uk

US bombed Nord Stream gas pipelines, claims investigative journalist Seymour Hersh

The bombing of the Nord Stream underwater gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea was a covert operation ordered by the White House and carried out by the CIA, a report by a veteran investigative journalist claims. Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, has claimed that US deep-sea divers, using
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
Click to expand...
Most people, that are not watching housewives of Atlanta or the Kardashians, pretty much knew this within days of it. I think that and then the bombing of Poland were attempted false flag events. When the bullshit was called out the stories drop from the news cycle.
 
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#11,386
232593 said:
Speaking of infrastructure, seen this?

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

Planning for the operation in 2021? That’s interesting.

I’m not looking forward to the retaliation
Click to expand...
Yea I have. RT just did a thing on it too. They have been talking about ending NORD for years. Control of Energy is a lot of what this war is about.

BTW. Hearing reports Eastern forces have pushed west of Soledar and has forces on the M03 Road north out of Bakhmut. Not much Left of the City. The 00506 is still under western control. Unless something changes it looks like the encirclement is not far off.
 
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#11,387
DarnYankeeUSMC said:
Most people, that are not watching housewives of Atlanta or the Kardashians, pretty much knew this within days of it. I think that and then the bombing of Poland were attempted false flag events. When the bullshit was called out the stories drop from the news cycle.
Click to expand...
It's pretty hard to deny when the US military providing over-watch during the operation, didn't turn off their transponders.
 
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#11,388
One thing many people over look is the money Eastern Europe was making off transit fees of energy flowing thru pipelines out of Russia. The Nord stream bypassed all of them. They would have lost that Income and been stuck paying slightly higher prices as the Undersea Pipeline is more expensive than than land based. It was in their interest to destroy it... Cough cough Poland cough cough..

Don't be fooled about "democracy" for Ukraine... Control of OIL is extremely high up on the list.
 
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#11,399
www.independent.co.uk

Ukraine criticises speech by Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters at UN Security Council

The musician said during his speech that he ‘condemned’ the invasion of Ukraine and the ‘provocateurs’ who he claims led to the Russian attack.
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Waters addressed the room through a video call and said he was representing “the feelings of countless brothers and sisters all over the world”.

Reflecting on the war, he said: “The invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation was illegal. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms.

“Also, the Russian invasion of Ukraine was not unprovoked. So I also condemn the provocateurs in the strongest possible terms.”

He continued: “So what do the voiceless millions have to say? They say thank you for hearing us today. We are many who do not share in the profits of the war industry.

“We do not willingly raise our sons and daughters to provide fodder for your cannons.

“In our opinion, the only sensible course of action today is to call for an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine, no ifs, no buts, no and.

“Not one more Ukrainian or Russian life is to be spent, not one, they are all precious in our eyes. So the time has come to speak truth to power.”
 
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#11,400
theLBC said:
www.independent.co.uk

Ukraine criticises speech by Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters at UN Security Council

The musician said during his speech that he ‘condemned’ the invasion of Ukraine and the ‘provocateurs’ who he claims led to the Russian attack.
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Waters addressed the room through a video call and said he was representing “the feelings of countless brothers and sisters all over the world”.

Reflecting on the war, he said: “The invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation was illegal. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms.

“Also, the Russian invasion of Ukraine was not unprovoked. So I also condemn the provocateurs in the strongest possible terms.”

He continued: “So what do the voiceless millions have to say? They say thank you for hearing us today. We are many who do not share in the profits of the war industry.

“We do not willingly raise our sons and daughters to provide fodder for your cannons.

“In our opinion, the only sensible course of action today is to call for an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine, no ifs, no buts, no and.

“Not one more Ukrainian or Russian life is to be spent, not one, they are all precious in our eyes. So the time has come to speak truth to power.”
Click to expand...
All this talk is bullshit. No one cares at this point other than the person flapping their gums on stage for applause. This conflict will go the way it goes, and words aren’t going to stop a thing. That’s some split the baby in two 60’s hippy holdover BS that he was spouting. This conflict is much more serious than that, especially if it goes full NATO V Russia.

This pie-in-the-sky, tie dye, kumbaya, weed smoking speech I have no desire for. YMMV
 
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