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PISTOL BRACE

I think the suit brought by the FPC in the Northern Texas district is set to be heard in March. They are seeking a temporary injunction until the case is heard and a permanent stay due to violation of the APA, as well as the obvious unconstitutionality. Search "armed scholar" on YouTube. He just put a vid up a couple hours ago about it.
 
There's a bunch of lawsuits but nothing seems to have made it into court yet.

Illinois got fucked a couple days back when the judge ruled that their AW ban is constitutionally OK.

I think it will go through, would like to be wrong, but plan accordingly.

That judge is an idiot and got almost everything wrong in that decision. I mean, almost every word wrong and goes against multiple SCOTUS rulings. The decision is a disaster that surely can't hold up.
 
That judge is an idiot and got almost everything wrong in that decision. I mean, almost every word wrong and goes against multiple SCOTUS rulings. The decision is a disaster that surely can't hold up.
It was a decision not to grant a temporary injunction. While the judge got it wrong, this isn’t the end of the world that YouTube screech owls would suggest.
 
That judge is an idiot and got almost everything wrong in that decision. I mean, almost every word wrong and goes against multiple SCOTUS rulings. The decision is a disaster that surely can't hold up.
They do whatever they want with impunity.

Just like the Election Fraud: No standing, not enough evidence, wouldn't affect the outcome, it's too early, it's too late, no precedent, the election was stolen, but the electors have already cast votes, go away peasant. Total joke, all of it.
 
I think the suit brought by the FPC in the Northern Texas district is set to be heard in March. They are seeking a temporary injunction until the case is heard and a permanent stay due to violation of the APA, as well as the obvious unconstitutionality. Search "armed scholar" on YouTube. He just put a vid up a couple hours ago about it.
Sounds like the tactic by the government is for the gun owners to run out of time on the grace period waiting for a court decision, making their guns illegal unless they pay the full price for a stamp...
 
I will predict that the current estimated number of braced pistols and aftermarket braces will turn out to be greatly inflated.

Why?

Because when the "amnesty" deadline has come and gone, the ATF will discover a miniscule amount of braced pistols (SBR) will be registered.

In other words, there were never a lot of braced pistols to begin with. So no gunowners were harmed in formulating this new law rule.

Truth.jpg
 
I will predict that the current estimated number of braced pistols and aftermarket braces will turn out to be greatly inflated.

Why?

Because when the "amnesty" deadline has come and gone, the ATF will discover a miniscule amount of braced pistols (SBR) will be registered.

In other words, there were never a lot of braced pistols to begin with. So no gunowners were harmed in formulating this new law rule.

View attachment 8082438

So, they've preempted this by stating they estimate there to be roughly 3 million braces in circulation.

Roughly 10% or so of what is estimated to be in circulation by honest assessment.

Where did they come up with the 3 million number? My guess is they're largely looking at an estimate of how many braces are utilized by police departments. Police departments, and other government offices, utilize braces for the same reason anyone does; pistols are not regulated across state lines. An SBR is. Departments, like everyone else, doesn't want the headache of dealing with the paperwork or the hassle associated with the SBR.

Departments, though, will have 80%+ compliance. I say 80% as just a rough guess -- some departments will just swap 16in barrels in and put a stock on it - others will put a stock on it and register it as an SBR, and some will simply not have good enough track of their own property to register them all. But, generally speaking, they'll comply nearly 100% of what they know they need to comply with -- one way or another, most probably registering them.

So when the ATF comes rolling in about how successful this was that they got almost 100% compliance -- the media will roll with it, Democrats will claim victory, and normies are so stupid they'll believe it like they do everything else the zombie tube tells them to believe.

So, yes, when the deadline has come and gone they will announce a miniscule number of braces have been registered. We will all laugh... until we see it portrayed as a huge success on TV and America believes it.

That's my take on what they've got planned. They threw out that 3 million number preemptively because they knew this was going to fail and they wanted to tout a win anyway to try to convince everyone that America will bend the knee and lick their boots.
 
So, they've preempted this by stating they estimate there to be roughly 3 million braces in circulation.

Roughly 10% or so of what is estimated to be in circulation by honest assessment.

Where did they come up with the 3 million number? My guess is they're largely looking at an estimate of how many braces are utilized by police departments. Police departments, and other government offices, utilize braces for the same reason anyone does; pistols are not regulated across state lines. An SBR is. Departments, like everyone else, doesn't want the headache of dealing with the paperwork or the hassle associated with the SBR.

Departments, though, will have 80%+ compliance. I say 80% as just a rough guess -- some departments will just swap 16in barrels in and put a stock on it - others will put a stock on it and register it as an SBR, and some will simply not have good enough track of their own property to register them all. But, generally speaking, they'll comply nearly 100% of what they know they need to comply with -- one way or another, most probably registering them.

So when the ATF comes rolling in about how successful this was that they got almost 100% compliance -- the media will roll with it, Democrats will claim victory, and normies are so stupid they'll believe it like they do everything else the zombie tube tells them to believe.

So, yes, when the deadline has come and gone they will announce a miniscule number of braces have been registered. We will all laugh... until we see it portrayed as a huge success on TV and America believes it.

That's my take on what they've got planned. They threw out that 3 million number preemptively because they knew this was going to fail and they wanted to tout a win anyway to try to convince everyone that America will bend the knee and lick their boots.
And then the lawsuits filed will be pointless cause they will have to prove that the ATFs numbers are not a true account and more or less say that 37,000,000 others are now felons, which likely won’t happen and bye bye fantasy of this getting stopped in the courts.
 
What about the congressional review, or whatever that was called, that stated there were approximately 40 million braced pistols out there?

I’m not being snarky or sarcastic, it’s a legit question I have.
 
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So I have no desire to register but I have been looking at some of the amnesty Form 1s that have been coming back and they don't have a tax stamp on them. I find that very odd if they are actually for SBRs. I'm not saying that is sketchy as fuck but that is sketchy as fuck! Seems more like a permission slip to keep the pistol brace on than to actually SBR a pistol. I can see the poor sob that says "I haz my Form 1! I can put a stock on for Freeeeee!" only to have ATF say read the conditons on the last page felon!

Full disclosure... The tin foil is a tad tight tonight but it's something that has been bugging me and I could be completely mis-interpreting the AFTs kind gesture! </sarcasm>
 
So I have no desire to register but I have been looking at some of the amnesty Form 1s that have been coming back and they don't have a tax stamp on them. I find that very odd if they are actually for SBRs. I'm not saying that is sketchy as fuck but that is sketchy as fuck! Seems more like a permission slip to keep the pistol brace on than to actually SBR a pistol. I can see the poor sob that says "I haz my Form 1! I can put a stock on for Freeeeee!" only to have ATF say read the conditons on the last page felon!

Full disclosure... The tin foil is a tad tight tonight but it's something that has been bugging me and I could be completely mis-interpreting the AFTs kind gesture! </sarcasm>
I have mentioned this at least twice in this thread. I think it's a clear indication that they do not Intend to grant "tax paid" stamps to amnesty applicants. There will always be some sort of "condition".
 
So I have no desire to register but I have been looking at some of the amnesty Form 1s that have been coming back and they don't have a tax stamp on them. I find that very odd if they are actually for SBRs. I'm not saying that is sketchy as fuck but that is sketchy as fuck! Seems more like a permission slip to keep the pistol brace on than to actually SBR a pistol. I can see the poor sob that says "I haz my Form 1! I can put a stock on for Freeeeee!" only to have ATF say read the conditons on the last page felon!

Full disclosure... The tin foil is a tad tight tonight but it's something that has been bugging me and I could be completely mis-interpreting the AFTs kind gesture! </sarcasm>
I have mentioned this at least twice in this thread. I think it's a clear indication that they do not Intend to grant "tax paid" stamps to amnesty applicants. There will always be some sort of "condition".
"It's legal until we change our minds."
 
I have mentioned this at least twice in this thread. I think it's a clear indication that they do not Intend to grant "tax paid" stamps to amnesty applicants. There will always be some sort of "condition".

Well, ATF/DOJ/FJB can't legally waive the tax, since it's required by the statute. They can only defer collection indefinitely, and since the stamp is proof of having paid the tax, it follows stamps wouldn't be attached to these "amnesty" applications.

And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that also means the tax deferment could be ended by a future administration.
 
I will predict that the current estimated number of braced pistols and aftermarket braces will turn out to be greatly inflated.

Why?

Because when the "amnesty" deadline has come and gone, the ATF will discover a miniscule amount of braced pistols (SBR) will be registered.

In other words, there were never a lot of braced pistols to begin with. So no gunowners were harmed in formulating this new law rule.

View attachment 8082438
And this is part of the plan IMHO. 40 million? In common use and Heller (or Bruen or whoever) wins the day. AFT says 3 million? Is that a small enough of a number to enact the unusual part of Dangerous AND Unusual? Is it a small enough number to prove not in common use thus not protected? Cue gunowners harmed.

BTW, personal fantasy... SCOTUS says "So ATF, there are 40 million pistols in use that you say are now SBRs? Guess that means SBRs are in common use and they're protected. And while we're at it... HOW many suppressors are out there?" </fantasy>

P.S. I know dick about any of this and am guessing!
 
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An older guy (75ish) I know got in a car wreck recently. I picked him up and He got his guns out of his crashed car before the tow truck took it away. One was a nice sig with a pistol brace built by his son, a retired armorer. He said the officer on scene asked him "Hey, did you register that brace?"
As he stood there dumbfounded for a moment, the cop then said- "Me f-ing either. Have an awesome day."

I live around the corner from a deputy whom I see from time to time shooting through some fram-cans for sound mitigation and realize, I live in a totally different country than so much of the rest of the U.S.
 
And this is part of the plan IMHO. 40 million? In common use and Heller wins the day. AFT says 3 million? Is that a small enough of a number to enact the unusual part of Dangerous AND Unusual? Is it a small enough number to prove not in common use thus not protected? Cue gunowners harmed.


The SCOTUS has previously ruled that stun guns and tasers were protected by 2A partly due to being in common use. Their numbers are similar when adding up tasers and stun guns together.

 
The SCOTUS has previously ruled that stun guns and tasers were protected by 2A partly due to being in common use. Their numbers are similar when adding up tasers and stun guns together.

Thank you for the link. I get a warm-ish fuzzy learning that 30,000 tasers/stun guns is considered common use. 3 million makes it hard to argue not in common use but I have no doubt they will try!
 
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Two years from now they will change their minds and just deem them all illegal SBRs and since they have a list now of them all......confiscation it is.....

Doc
Or nobody will register them and that will justify the atfs decision under common use
 
My coworker and I decided to be sheep.
Coworker:
-submitted 1 as a E-Form Individual on 2/4.
-ATF received fingerprints on 2/13.
-approved today 3/14.

Me:
-submitted 1 as E-form Trust on 2/15.
-ATF received fingerprints on 2/21.
-still waiting.......
I have no interest in filing it as an Individual. If my Eform gets rejected because my Schedule is not notarized I'm just replacing the barrel with a 16" or paying the $200 to get it done the normal way.
 
My personal opinion is that SBR, Suppressors, and Full auto, should not require a tax. No right should ever have a burden or cost associated with it. But that is not going to change.
The SCOTUS case Murdoch v Pennsylvania would agree with you.
 
My coworker and I decided to be sheep.
Coworker:
-submitted 1 as a E-Form Individual on 2/4.
-ATF received fingerprints on 2/13.
-approved today 3/14.

Me:
-submitted 1 as E-form Trust on 2/15.
-ATF received fingerprints on 2/21.
-still waiting.......
I have no interest in filing it as an Individual. If my Eform gets rejected because my Schedule is not notarized I'm just replacing the barrel with a 16" or paying the $200 to get it done the normal way.
Or you could just remove the brace
 
Approved eForm 1's are starting to roll in, emblazoned with:

APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS - SEE CONDITIONS ON THE LAST PAGE OF PDF

On the last page under "Approval Conditions":

Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F.
Yeppers! Pretty much if 2021R-08F is redacted and you put a stock on your approved "fReE" SBR and continue to keep a stock on it you're now breaking the law.
 
Approved eForm 1's are starting to roll in, emblazoned with:

APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS - SEE CONDITIONS ON THE LAST PAGE OF PDF

On the last page under "Approval Conditions":

Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F.
Sans tax stamp as I am sure you noticed...
 
Way to play right into their hands.....gave them everything they need....y'all are a bunch of dumb fucks for even thinking of getting your pistol registered as an SBR.....now just wait till they ban SBRs here in the US because they feel like it on a whim......bet y'all would be the first ones to tattle on your neighbor for watering his lawn on the wrong day/time.......

Doc
 
Way to play right into their hands.....gave them everything they need....y'all are a bunch of dumb fucks for even thinking of getting your pistol registered as an SBR.....now just wait till they ban SBRs here in the US because they feel like it on a whim......bet y'all would be the first ones to tattle on your neighbor for watering his lawn on the wrong day/time.......

Doc
If your pistol was purchased through an FFL, then they already have your info.
 
Yeppers! Pretty much if 2021R-08F is redacted and you put a stock on your approved "fReE" SBR and continue to keep a stock on it you're now breaking the law.
Once registered as an sbr, it’s a registered sbr. Your tax stamp dose not disappear or become void.
 
My coworker and I decided to be sheep.
Coworker:
-submitted 1 as a E-Form Individual on 2/4.
-ATF received fingerprints on 2/13.
-approved today 3/14.

Me:
-submitted 1 as E-form Trust on 2/15.
-ATF received fingerprints on 2/21.
-still waiting.......
I have no interest in filing it as an Individual. If my Eform gets rejected because my Schedule is not notarized I'm just replacing the barrel with a 16" or paying the $200 to get it done the normal way.
All trust Historically have taken longer for approval
 
Once registered as an sbr, it’s a registered sbr. Your tax stamp dose not disappear or become void.
There is no tax stamp on the approved letters. It is a pdf of the approval letters only so far. There is no mention in the email from the ATF that you physically get a tax stamp at the monent.
 
Have fun asking their permission to cross a state border....y'all sound like battered women.....

Doc
removing the stock returns the sbr into pistol form. As long as the state you are traveling to accepts pistols, no atf permission / notification is needed.
 
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Every "free" Form1 that I have seen is has no stamp (real or digital) in the upper left hand corner. It is exactly a "permission" slip but with conditions!
My form1 has a digital tax stamp on page 1 of 8
 
There is no tax stamp on the approved letters. It is a pdf of the approval letters only so far. There is no mention in the email from the ATF that you physically get a tax stamp at the monent.
You get 8 pages electronically sent to you. On page 1 of 8 you will have a digital picture of a tax stamp. They haven’t sent form1 stamps for a while now.
 
removing the stock returns the the sbr into pistol form. As long as the state you are traveling to accepts pistols, no atf permission / notification is needed.
Wrong.....once receiver is registered as SBR, it would have to be taken out of NFA registry in order for it to be a "pistol" again.....receiver is the firearm.....not the buffer tube.....

Hence why I never registered any firearms while I was active duty......


Doc
 
Wrong.....once receiver is registered as SBR, it would have to be taken out of NFA registry in order for it to be a "pistol" again.....receiver is the firearm.....not the buffer tube.....

Hence why I never registered any firearms while I was active duty......


Doc
Straight from the atf
 
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