There was. You are just too damn old to remember that you seen it.
PISTOL BRACE
- Thread starter Conrad101st
- Start date
Hey great news! All you, "muh free tax stamp" warriors can make a new patch for your kit! You are now officially the .6% ers! 
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www.youtube.com
Hey great news! All you, "muh free tax stamp" warriors can make a new patch for your kit! You are now officially the .6% ers!
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
For those who don’t watch the video, it’s between less than 1% and 8% that got the amnesty SBR forbearance; around 250,000 submissions.
That’s nearly none. How many of those were multiple submissions from one entity?
It will be interesting to see if the ATF now uses this statistic of low/non-compliance to justify even more restrictive and additional steps to try and identify brace owners, go after gun owners with the parts for "intent to construct", etc. SBR's now. Before braces that was why basically no one would buy < 16" barrels/uppers for AR's unless they were going to SBR it, even then people did the form 1's before buying the upper/barrel. No one wanted to hand the ATF the opportunity on a silver platter to come after them by having everything in your possession that could be easily assembled into an SBR in minutes laying around. You can of course make the case that alone does not meet what is required for intent to construct as many have recently, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be fun to deal with that mess, even if you "won" in the end.
Cant prosecute. Hilary Clinton claimed she didn’t intend for evidence to get wiped, among other things, so...
The exact number of firearms reported to have been submitted is 255,162. Multiple sources.
I'd be willing to bet the most annoying thing the gov't sees with that statistic is $51 million in lost tax dollars.
The impact is definitely larger though than just this though. A quick look on gunbroker and the amount of used uppers and barrels with < 16" is more than I've ever seen. Used to be it was almost impossible to find a used MPX/MCX barrel/upper under <16" and they are full of them now. Same for both of those being sold used as pistols, gunbroker is flooded both with people trying to dump used ones and dealers trying to dump new ones.
Also more long term how much does this hurt the gun industry through loss of sales, not just of braces, but how many people bought braced guns the last 10 years to get around the SBR issue, that will never buy another gun of that style because they won't do the SBR path. That's a lot of gun sales, brace sales, and all the accessories that go with having another/more guns lost.
Let's think about that, lets say the 30 million braced guns sold/made in 10 years is accurate, that means the gun industry can expect to lose 3 million sales per year (granted some might use that $ to just buy other guns) that's a lot. When you consider a record gun sale year is ~20 million total gun sales, braced guns would then make up 15% of all gun sales.
Even if you take the lowball estimate the ATF made of say 5 million over 7 years, that's still almost 1 million per year, or 5% of all gun sales. The govt' and ATF might be looking long term that they put a dent in the # of these guns being sold and hurt total gun industry sales/income. Similar to how they've tried to make ammo more expensive/harder to get, to take a more subtle path to hurt the gun industry and gun owners as a whole.
The impact is definitely larger though than just this though. A quick look on gunbroker and the amount of used uppers and barrels with < 16" is more than I've ever seen. Used to be it was almost impossible to find a used MPX/MCX barrel/upper under <16" and they are full of them now. Same for both of those being sold used as pistols, gunbroker is flooded both with people trying to dump used ones and dealers trying to dump new ones.
Also more long term how much does this hurt the gun industry through loss of sales, not just of braces, but how many people bought braced guns the last 10 years to get around the SBR issue, that will never buy another gun of that style because they won't do the SBR path. That's a lot of gun sales, brace sales, and all the accessories that go with having another/more guns lost.
Let's think about that, lets say the 30 million braced guns sold/made in 10 years is accurate, that means the gun industry can expect to lose 3 million sales per year (granted some might use that $ to just buy other guns) that's a lot. When you consider a record gun sale year is ~20 million total gun sales, braced guns would then make up 15% of all gun sales.
Even if you take the lowball estimate the ATF made of say 5 million over 7 years, that's still almost 1 million per year, or 5% of all gun sales. The govt' and ATF might be looking long term that they put a dent in the # of these guns being sold and hurt total gun industry sales/income. Similar to how they've tried to make ammo more expensive/harder to get, to take a more subtle path to hurt the gun industry and gun owners as a whole.
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This will be overturned. As will suppressors.
Long term, sales will go way up. ATF is fucked and just accelerating their downfall from all recent SC decisions.
Long term, sales will go way up. ATF is fucked and just accelerating their downfall from all recent SC decisions.
The ATF arrested two men, and prosecuted them for transferring unregistered machineguns(lightning link business card).... anything can happen in our clown world.
I'm definitely happy with the mass noncompliance. I would rather have 250k out of 30 million bend a knee than the other way around. The question now becomes, when do doorbells start ringing?
Out of the 29 million doorbells, how many will be their Huckleberry.... ATF can't move fast enough to keep up with technology and innovation. Citizens are starting to realize this and tables are turning.
Say what you will, you can thank Trump for his Supreme Court picks. Your Elected officials would sell your Ass out in a Heartbeat. If Trump was never President, the 2A would be on life support by now!
I'm definitely happy with the mass noncompliance. I would rather have 250k out of 30 million bend a knee than the other way around. The question now becomes, when do doorbells start ringing?
Out of the 29 million doorbells, how many will be their Huckleberry.... ATF can't move fast enough to keep up with technology and innovation. Citizens are starting to realize this and tables are turning.
Say what you will, you can thank Trump for his Supreme Court picks. Your Elected officials would sell your Ass out in a Heartbeat. If Trump was never President, the 2A would be on life support by now!
That‘s as true of a statement as any. Sadly.
It’s funny, for sure. I do see one possible negative to the very low amnesty numbers.
Part of getting stuff out from underneath the NFA umbrella is common usage. This just allowed the ATF to make the argument that out of 3-40 million braces (a huge range to estimate within), only a few still legally exist. The rest were either changed to comply (no way for them to know how many put longer barrels, removed braces, etc) or did not comply.
According to some posts, the first doorbells to ring with be those on the amnesty list. I don’t think either list will have many doorbells ring. There just aren’t that many ATF Agents and the United States is a huge place.
Maybe I'm wrong on this assumption so please feel free to let me know if that's the case.
The ATF is in a no-win argument with the common use standard. A smart attorney can put the noose around them on this.
Pro-2A Lawyer: The massive non-compliance shows that braced pistols are in common use and ought to be protected under the 2nd Amendment.
ATF Attorney: Ah but these devices are not and never were braced pistols. They have always been SBRs.
Pro-2A Lawyer: Okay, Your Honor, we are willing to concede that these devices are not braced pistols but are indeed SBRs. The counsel for the government has just made our point for us. SBRs are in common use.
You’re not wrong. It can be argued several ways. That’s the problem. Right and wrong and following laws as written are no longer the way it goes. The NFA and so many others should have never been passed, in the first place. Once you start deviating from the Constitution, the rest is just attorneys getting richer off arguing points that only have to make sense to another attorney that has been deemed to be the decision maker.
I think the people that complied with the new ATF ruling are of the same breed that scrambled to get the COVID vax. The underlying joke here is that fear is a hell of a drug.
There are 3 organizations with injunctions... Many millions of members. ATF has no idea who's covered right now by an injunction. No glowies will be knocking anywhere. Ever.
I agree with this. To many years of records to try and search through. I believe that they will only go after people who are using them in public and try to make an example of them to scare anyone else.
I see it most likely being used as an enhancement on other crimes, more than something they specifically go after. On the other hand, they did go after those with the fuel filter suppressors.
ATF regulations can be summed up in ten words: If it is fun, then you can not do it.
So just how anti-gun can those leftist pot-heads be, now that they are still banned from owning THEIR guns?
Don’t worry about concealed carry reciprocity. LEO are on your side and are real Americans with real American values. Oath keepers. Protectors of the Constitution. They are beyond reproach, fighting fake as fuck elections, covid murders, the southern invasion, guarding against the terrorist 3 letter feds, all while going after the real criminals in high office. Back the blue.
Just saw a vid on how Texas is included in the injunction, meaning all Texas residents are included.
No, only state employees.
As far as I know, there hasn't been a case heard yet in a lower court. Is that correct? I think that so far these are just injuctions preventing the rule from taking effect because the plaintiffs are likely to succeed, in the lower judges view. So a case must be heard and ruled on at a federal district level, then appealed by the loser, then two appeals courts come to different conclusions, only then the Supreme Court may hear it. Unless the Supremes choose to step in early.
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 1
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."How can one group of people be exempt from the law, but the rest of us have to follow it?
I understand what an injunction is, but ANYONE who owns a pistol brace should be able to make themself a party to the suit against the ATF, because every single one of us meets the criterion of being done irreparable harm and likely to win the suit on the merits. QED
What's a "pistol brace"?
If you didn't buy parts during Trump's tenure, with the above prophesy in mind.....hell, I dont know what to tell you. You were probably busy sending "parts" money to gun rights organizations.
And please keep in mind, its the royal "you" not the personal you I am addressing.
Some of us saw this shit coming in the very first "letter" on braces.
IF that were true, and I highly doubt that it is. This country really is eat up with the dumbass, as my long dead daddy would say.
You can still have an AR "pistol" with no problems.
Taking the brace off (and I'm not advocating do or dont) it is no less effective weapon.
You can still pop a short upper on a lower legally.
Its all a big dog whistle, shark bump, whatever you want to call it. It is a shitty card player, trying to bluff you off the nuts.
This is the way they should get suppressors off the list.
They are absolutely common use.
Legal for hunting in many states. Not only that, they are a safety device. Hearing loss and tinnitus is a big deal. We should have some kind of bill proposed where suppressors are made legal to protect hearing. We could call it...oh...the Hearing Protection Act.
Now surely, the NRA would get behind that, and put our money to good use, in making sure something like that went to a vote....but we would need a Republican majority in the house and Senate. Shame none of that happened while we had majority under Trump huh?
Vote harder, and send your money to NRA...fucking morons.
Is it?
Better than....
Well at least you don't set the goal too high for the red team.
You know.....THEY are all on the same team...right?
You are voting for the iron maiden, or the rack.
YES! Finally, the shooting community has actually made me proud and not folded to the machine's bullshit.Hey great news! All you, "muh free tax stamp" warriors can make a new patch for your kit! You are now officially the .6% ers!
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
Or they decide not to. Like they have in a thousand other cases
Wait......is this a Jungian thing?
You just said you vote red....and you said you'd never again vote for another demonrat.
Did you vote for Trump?
He is a Democrat, a JFK democrat.
Oh...
, I have no doubt I'm pushing your buttons.What are you gonna do about it?
I mean...besides call me a democrat?
When I see bickering like this..... please don't turn the Hide into Arfcom...
Oh...
What are you gonna do about it?
I mean...besides call me a democrat?
Its not bickering hoss, its poking glow worms.
10 year old account. ~6% of his posts....for 10 years, are in this thread.
That not look strange to you?
Stick around.
If you shoot a lot, travel with weapons, have a number of stamps and other assets, you're a prime target for prosecution. They almost never prosecute the poors. See McCloskey.
It's smart to pick your battles, pick one of your choosing - for me this isn't one of them.
The gov’ts LEO have no issue ripping families apart on behalf of the state for a paycheck. Things like this and most all the problems in this country would stop if people were ever to act in kind. Think of all the intentional problems created by gov’t. I shouldn’t have to help you out with this. Now understand that none of them would be possible without professional statist serving and protecting government. The criminals in power are not only secured by our wages that their police steal via armed robbery, but also use the loot to destroy the American culture. We are seeing this in real time.
Some may not like what I say, but I challenge those to prove me wrong.
Some may not like what I say, but I challenge those to prove me wrong.
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