.21 SHARP, what is it?

[SharpsNitro]

Saw this on TFB. Anyone know anything about it?

21 SHARP – New Rimfire Cartridge from Winchester

SAAMI have published cartridge and chamber drawings of a new rimfire cartridge called 21 Sharp designed by Olin Winchester.

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[wvfarrier]

Its a 22LR.without the rim....thats it

 

[Gtscotty]

It still has the rim, just doesn't use a heeled bullet.

 

[SharpsNitro]

I’m trying to figure out what the point of it is. Is it to go after a more ballistically efficient design for the guys pushing the long range envelope for rimfires? Is it just to be different?

 

[nockhunter]

More bullet options, real jacketed bullets, boat tails. Just a barrel swap away with any 22lr. Internally lubricated lead bullets instead of externally lubed, no more greasy fingers from loading magazines.
I like it.
Mike

 

[roostercogburn98]

More bullet options, real jacketed bullets, boat tails.

Realistically still stuck with what manufacturers put in it. Not like there will be a choice later down the road.

 

[b6graham]

still gonna be shit ammo just a little lighter and a little faster

 

[RPN]

More suitable for lead free ammo.
Might be a smart move.

 

[Im2bent]

So how many are going to rebarrel their 22's to use this ammo?

 

[nockhunter]

Ammo quality depends on manufacturer. There is high quality match 22lr and there is shitty stuff. Might be an avenue to some really nice ammo down the road. It wouldn't be too hard for Eley, Lapua or RWS to make some match stuff. They already make the casing and and prime them. They would have to tool up bullet swaging or other type of bullet making process, then crimp it in a case and test fire loads. I'll wait a while to switch barrels.

Mike

 

[b6graham]

sure...they could. they could also load CE solids or make their own...which is a big improvement and would sell a boatload with the right price. yet they don't

 

[cas6969]

More suitable for lead free ammo.
Might be a smart move.

That's the only reason I can see, looking to get out in front and set the standard. Sad.

 

[Basher]

With the .17WSM languishing, and improvements needed in most other rimfire ammo QC standards, the .21 Sharp is a fart in our general direction, that’s what it is. They need to better support what’s already out there before they introduce more flops, IMO.

 

[SharpsNitro]

So it doesn’t seem to be all that much. I think PCPs have a better chance of taking over the precision field.

 

[acudaowner]

it's 21 and it will put your eye out

 

[SharpsNitro]

Or it’s “Smoke coming out of their jumblies”

Edit: Not sure why the image got doubled but, “smashing baby”.

 

[Fasteddie01]

acuda - How can you say this is 'pointless' ?

 

[beetroot]

I’m sure this will be a bit hit, just like the 6.8 Western.

 

[nockhunter]

Anything new on this ?

Mike

 

[CMP70306]

Anything new on this ?

Mike

Released yesterday it seems.

 

[Aftermath]

Released yesterday it seems.

Yeah...but Winchester themselves don't make a rifle chambered for it. WTF?
It looks interesting but I'll be waiting 1) for much more support and 2) a 21 Sharps Magnum version to make it much more worthwhile.

 

[CMP70306]

Yeah...but Winchester themselves don't make a rifle chambered for it. WTF?
It looks interesting but I'll be waiting 1) for much more support and 2) a 21 Sharps Magnum version to make it much more worthwhile.

Winchester Guns and Winchester ammo are two separate companies that share a common name and linage but at this point have little to no collaboration with each other. Winchester guns is owned by FN and Winchester Ammo is owned by the chemical manufacturer Olin Corporation who sold off Winchester Arms in the 80’s.

And don’t get me started on the gun side because I have never seen a company with so much history that simultaneously hates making money off it.

 

[68hoyt]

I wonder why someone/they / Winchester didn’t take the 22 magnum and just cut it down to lr length and make the rim fit lr actions , then use 223 barrels already in production ,223 bullets in production

 

[CMP70306]

I wonder why someone/they / Winchester didn’t take the 22 magnum and just cut it down to lr length and make the rim fit lr actions , then use 223 barrels already in production ,223 bullets in production

Probably because the idea was to keep the cost down and get more manufactures on board. The easiest way to do that is to use the absolute cheapest and most plentiful rimfire case available just loaded with a different bullet.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I can see some points, especially the non-heeled bullet. What I can’t see is the extra velocity. The attraction of the .22LR is the velocity range. Enough for small game, not to much for meat or metal damage. (Hunting or target, depending on your persuasion or need). And current .22lr barrels essentially last pretty much a lifetime.

Obviously if a fellow wants more velocity, go with a .223 or a .22-250. Lots of speed and lots of reusability.

As for the Sharp, make it a heavy bullet with sonic and subsonic velocities, give me a coated bullet rather than a standard jacketed bullet which drives costs up and offers no advantage (to me) over the current .22 Magnum.

 

[68hoyt]

But now you have to make new barrels ,,,,,,, of a new bore ,,,,,,,,, new bullet ,,,,,,would it be that expensive to modify the 22 mag case already in production ?
,,,,,,, I understand the masses of 22 lr cases in production already

 

[Rudiger]

Meh, I'm not one to jump on bandwagons so I'll check back in 5yrs. Unless it turns into a case like the. 350Legend where everyone else taking a while to catch on so it gave me a chance to buy a buttload of ammo cheap enough to make a gun purchase make sense.

 

[68hoyt]

I did a search and accuracy was 1.5” at 50 yards iirc , Winchester is the only manufacture currently ? Savage is making rifles ?
All the hype about how much better it is and it isn’t

 

[Frankr]

As someone who hunts with the 17 hm2, 17hmr and 22lr. I am interested in this but at the same time I’m wondering what this offers over the rounds already available?

The 17hm2 is my favorite small game round and it’s too bad it came out after the 17hmr.

I didn’t see but did they say if the 21 sharp can be used in blow back actions?

 

[TorF]

I just hope they specify the twist to be fast enough to handle a 35 - 40gr lead free bullet at subsonic speeds for suppressors.

 

[Corfius]

The idea is having a caliber using the same brass as a 22lr while being more friendly to non lead bullets.

As more places ban lead ammo it might take off.

 

[Cody S]

I was interested for a split second, but then I realized that this isn't geared towards long range/bench rest 22lr(I know, sounds weird but it's fun and I'll pay to do it)

 

[Frankr]

The idea is having a caliber using the same brass as a 22lr while being more friendly to non lead bullets.

As more places ban lead ammo it might take off.

Makes sense but couldn’t they put the lead free bullet they use in the 17 hmr tnt rounds in the 17 hm2?

The hm2 uses 22lr cases as well.

It will be cool to see real world results between all these rounds and compare them.

 

[Marksman]

If I owned a RimX, I "might" buy a barrel and a case or two of ammo. But until that happens, hard pass from me. They can't even keep up with 17 WSM ammo, what chance does a new caliber have?

 

[David Nissen Kahn]

So...let's resuscitate this moribund body for a tick or two.

At age 78, having been a gun guy since my preteen years, I've watched a number of "revolutionary" and simply evolutionary cartridges come and splash and disappear into the hazy realm of curiosities. Things have, as one would expect if thinking psychosociologically, mostly drifted back toward previous standards, unless there was a compelling reason for the (supposed) innovation to stay. An example is the 7.62x51mm, able to do 90+% of what the 30/'06 can do with less powder and brass in a shorter action, and being the standard U.S. military round. Same with the 5.56x45mm. Same with the short cartridge variants and calibers, such as the Creedmoor family.

From what I read, in what passes for firearms literature now (and, yeah, some is really good), and hereabouts, the 21 Sharp offers the run of the mill rimfire user virtually nothing that current heeled lead bullets don't cover. I've had the same thoughts as above in this comms chain. I can only imagine that Winchester ammunition and Savage got together and said, "Let's throw this against the wall and see whether it sticks...but don't let's spend a whole lot of cash on it". All the above said, I do see one possibility:

If some ammunition maker--could be, oughta be Winchester, but maybe they don't have the capacity-- 1. decided to make ultraprecise Eley/Lapua level "match quality" cartridges as a whole system, bullet, powder formulation and charge, priming, case, and 2. SPONSORED a subgenre of precision rimfire competition featuring MATCH 21 Sharp, in several of the regions where organized precision rimfire is done, there might be a reason for it to exist. Even better if they could pull in other sponsorship. Folks would then be willing to invest in rebarreling, investigate ballistics, get people such as Bryan Litz interested and involved. I'd really like to see this happening...but I'm inclined to doubt that it will.

Otherwise, what's the point? It's a cartridge that's a logical evolution but 90 years out of its time and place.

dk

 

[6.5SH]

So...let's resuscitate this moribund body for a tick or two.

At age 78, having been a gun guy since my preteen years, I've watched a number of "revolutionary" and simply evolutionary cartridges come and splash and disappear into the hazy realm of curiosities. Things have, as one would expect if thinking psychosociologically, mostly drifted back toward previous standards, unless there was a compelling reason for the (supposed) innovation to stay. An example is the 7.62x51mm, able to do 90+% of what the 30/'06 can do with less powder and brass in a shorter action, and being the standard U.S. military round. Same with the 5.56x45mm. Same with the short cartridge variants and calibers, such as the Creedmoor family.

From what I read, in what passes for firearms literature now (and, yeah, some is really good), and hereabouts, the 21 Sharp offers the run of the mill rimfire user virtually nothing that current heeled lead bullets don't cover. I've had the same thoughts as above in this comms chain. I can only imagine that Winchester ammunition and Savage got together and said, "Let's throw this against the wall and see whether it sticks...but don't let's spend a whole lot of cash on it". All the above said, I do see one possibility:

If some ammunition maker--could be, oughta be Winchester, but maybe they don't have the capacity-- 1. decided to make ultraprecise Eley/Lapua level "match quality" cartridges as a whole system, bullet, powder formulation and charge, priming, case, and 2. SPONSORED a subgenre of precision rimfire competition featuring MATCH 21 Sharp, in several of the regions where organized precision rimfire is done, there might be a reason for it to exist. Even better if they could pull in other sponsorship. Folks would then be willing to invest in rebarreling, investigate ballistics, get people such as Bryan Litz interested and involved. I'd really like to see this happening...but I'm inclined to doubt that it will.

Otherwise, what's the point? It's a cartridge that's a logical evolution but 90 years out of its time and place.

dk

Rimfire hunting in locales that have or are banning lead is the niche it fills.

 

[David Nissen Kahn]

Rimfire hunting in locales that have or are banning lead is the niche it fills.

Agreed. But would it, could it, offer any advantages to the rimfire precisionist?

 

[Basher]

Rimfire hunting in locales that have or are banning lead is the niche it fills.

Just a quick, lazy search at Midway shows lead free, 25gr .21 Sharps in stock at 24¢/shot. I think most folks are fine with .17HMR, or even .17HM2 bought a case or more at a time when it’s made, shooting the 15.5gr lead free stuff at about the same cost (the difference is negligible) but with better performance overall.

So I’d say it’s another option for people that just really need an excuse to buy something new, as that niche is pretty much filled already.