Shots Fired At President Trump's Butler PA Rally!

#2,951
Terry Cross said:
I tend to agree so far.

I think part of the difficulty in coming up with enough information to form a credible opinion is that "a lot of the details" are infested with inaccurate information, assumptions and mis-quotes. With 95% of the deluge of information being bullshit, it is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Good example for myself just yesterday: Tucker interviewing Jack Posobiec. Very interesting interview and Jack seemed to be well plugged in. then at some point when they were discussing the attempt on DJT, Jack matter of fact stated that the shooter was using irons. Not a scope or dot/electonic. Irons.

I had it from a credible source 2 days after the event that the shooter had a Holosun sight mounted on his rifle. Grainy post event photos of the rooftop with the shooter and rifle shown on the roof tend to back up my initial information regarding the weapon sight.

I went from being all-in on the interview to instantly being skeptical of Posobiec and his sources.

That is just one of hundreds of instances where I think I am getting additional information and then having to walk away from the source. I'm still a Tucker fan but not knowing much about Posobiec, I am not liking that he was taking the title of an SME in that chair.
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Yeah, I've seen plenty of videos, articles, and interviews where they just get simple details wrong—distance between Crooks and Trump, details about AR15 and 5.56/.223 wrong, details around shooting in general wrong, details about the CS teams wrong, and so on. Nobody actually fact checks anymore because everybody is in a rush to be "first" to report something.
 
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#2,952
6.5SH said:
The one case that can be made for at least the rear sight being used; it makes the dot more crisp and removes the bloom. Given he wore glasses it does make sense.
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Rifle wasn't even his. Belonged to his dad. Makes more sense he went to his parents' house, asked to borrow some random gun (among many that were there), and didn't think too much about what was mounted to it or how it was set up, other than maybe choosing one he'd used before. He clearly had access to other rifles that had magnified optics and bipods and such, just going by the previous photo I found of him at the range with another weapon. I honestly don't think he put much thought into it. He grabbed some rando rifle from his dad and let 'er rip.

I'm also presuming, based on everything I've read/seen, that he had the rifle broken down in his backpack. Upper/lower separated so he could sneak it around. That meant it had to have a shorter barrel and probably no large optics in order to fit. That could have also been a consideration of his.

FBI/ATF/LE should think about checking his backpack for gun oil/grease residue. That would indicate whether he had the rifle inside, broken down, so internal greased parts were exposed to the fabric.

I know every time I'm done clay shooting and break my shotgun down, the barrel's forend lug leaves a big grease mark in my case.
 
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#2,953
doubloon said:
Saw report with a guy talking to congress on BBC who said they got his drone and it was flown day of the event about 200 yds away from the stage for about 11 minutes, sounds like recon
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Yes, they weren't able to recover any footage. But they managed to somehow get ahold of flight data and confirmed the when and where for the drone's flight path.
 
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#2,954
alpine44 said:
Also keep in mind that the first miss was caused by Trump moving his head in the right moment -Thank God- and that the shooter would have hit a static steel target on that 'stage'.
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Good point. Now that I think about it, and really picture in my mind what it's like to use a RDS at 120, 130, 150, 200 yards... you really can't see if you've hit your target and exactly where, without magnification. Especially on a real, live animal/human. For all we know, Crooks thought he took Trump out. No way for him to know it was just a graze at that distance. He probably saw Trump move, reach up to his head, and drop. Then he took a few more random spray-and-pray shots that direction for good measure, before getting taken out. But my point is... with the naked eye (irons or RDS), he had no way of really seeing Trump's true state or where, exactly, his POI was.

RDS had either a 2 MOA or 3 MOA dot. At that distance, that dot probably covered most of Trump's head, even though on paper 3 MOA at 150 yards = 3.1416"
 
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#2,955
FourT6and2 said:
I'm also presuming, based on everything I've read/seen, that he had the rifle broken down in his backpack. Upper/lower separated so he could sneak it around.
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That's what was assumed and makes the most sense. Very easy and quick.

I'm sure you have already seen press releases where dipshit Ray is saying that the rifle had a "Collapsible stock" and that made it easier for the shooter to sneak it closer to the venue. Nobody questioned him or pointed out that the option of splitting the lower from the upper would have been a smaller footprint than any collapsible stock.
Fuckers.

There are enough quotes him methodically making that false point that you can totally count on some of the pea brained congress will be bringing new bills to the floor demanding bans on collapsible stocks.

FourT6and2 said:
That meant it had to have a shorter barrel and probably no large optics in order to fit. That could have also been a consideration of his.
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If he was not really spun up on actual marksmanship technique, he may have also had some bad experiences with trying to get into the small eyebox of a scope. Perhaps him wearing glasses and having no formal training made him uncomfortable with a scope so he grabbed what was in his comfort zone? ? ?
FourT6and2 said:
FBI/ATF/LE should think about checking his backpack for gun oil/grease residue. That would indicate whether he had the rifle inside, broken down, so internal greased parts were exposed to the fabric.
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Common sense would point to that.
Reality is that he could have had 3 hamsters, a dead hooker, an RPG and an original Babe Ruth baseball card in that backpack. . . . but there's no reason for the public to know. . . right?
 
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#2,956
Terry Cross said:
That's what was assumed and makes the most sense. Very easy and quick.

I'm sure you have already seen press releases where dipshit Ray is saying that the rifle had a "Collapsible stock" and that made it easier for the shooter to sneak it closer to the venue. Nobody questioned him or pointed out that the option of splitting the lower from the upper would have been a smaller footprint than any collapsible stock.
Fuckers.

There are enough quotes him methodically making that false point that you can totally count on some of the pea brained congress will be bringing new bills to the floor demanding bans on collapsible stocks.


If he was not really spun up on actual marksmanship technique, he may have also had some bad experiences with trying to get into the small eyebox of a scope. Perhaps him wearing glasses and having no formal training made him uncomfortable with a scope so he grabbed what was in his comfort zone? ? ?

Common sense would point to that.
Reality is that he could have had 3 hamsters, a dead hooker, an RPG and an original Babe Ruth baseball card in that backpack. . . . but there's no reason for the public to know. . . right?
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Agreed on all points.

And yeah, I saw the hearing where the collapsible stock was mentioned. Moronic statement. The literal director for the FBI (Wray) didn't know some of the most basic questions, like if the rifle had a RDS or not, or how many shell casings were found that belonged to any of the CS teams that shot, and YET... he know Crooks' rifle had a "collapsible stock" and made it a point to mention that in front of the House?!

Literally 99% of all AR15s sold today have collapsible stocks. And they aren't even "fully" collapsible. They're merely SLIGHTLY adjsutable for Length of Pull lol. As if shortening a 36" rifle by 4" suddenly makes it more concealable...
 
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#2,957
No mag optic at 130+ yards at a blob of head. No way to tell if Trump was turning his head. So, just a lucky twist of the neck and of fate. Still a first round hit and it would have been a kill shot.
 
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#2,958
Collapsible stock and clips or folder and mags?

"Programmed" flight path retained with DJI drone.
FPV video stored (or not) is separate data stream.

I don't own a cell enabled DJI drone. Cheaper Hubsan ( no stored flight path or restricted zones) has GPS, Range, Altitude, Attitude Speed and FPV video and stored pics and video on SD card on drone.

I bet he didn't register his (or father's) drone
Crooks-faa-number.jpg
 
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#2,959
Smoketheclay said:
This is a shooting forum. If there was a pro shooter inside the building or near crooks, how do you explain the shot was missed?

Using a 6mm+ caliber, even with 30 mph wind, the shooter flinching, and Trump moving - the shooter would have made impact with Trumps head within 200 yards. Period.
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God. Divine Intervention.
 
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#2,961
FourT6and2 said:
Yeah, I've seen plenty of videos, articles, and interviews where they just get simple details wrong—distance between Crooks and Trump, details about AR15 and 5.56/.223 wrong, details around shooting in general wrong, details about the CS teams wrong, and so on. Nobody actually fact checks anymore because everybody is in a rush to be "first" to report something.
Click to expand...

Like the round that hit Trump was 20 yards past Crooks position?
 
#2,963
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#2,967
Trump has called on Wray to resign!

KEY FACTS​

Trump called on Wray to “resign immediately” in a Truth Socialpost for allegedly “LYING TO CONGRESS” in a House Judiciary Committee meeting on Wednesday, claiming Biden had faced “Cognitive Degeneration.”

In that hearing, Wray was asked by hard-right Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., whether he noticed “cognitive decline” in Biden after conversations with the 81-year-old president, with Wray responding he does not meet with Biden “very often,” and he had not observed a pattern of cognitive decline in his interactions with the president.

Wray’s testimony largely focused on the assassination attemptagainst Trump less than two weeks ago.

Wray did not immediately respond to Forbes’ request for comment.
 
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#2,969


Biggs asks about theshooter & CS rounds (no answer on CS rounds- ATF's investigation); pathology. No answers on shooter carrying rifle up the roof- Wray emhasing again the significance of the collapsible stock in possibly preventing earlier; Wray is really hedging on many questions here.
 
#2,971


I know she resigned but...DEI horror story comment accurate here.

I wonder if she thinks satellite is adequate as "overwatch" for the roofs?

And again, she did say she use encrypted comunication software (just not Signal) on her personal cell phone with "business" associates. She stated agents weren't removed from Trump's detail for Jill Biden (even though she had four times as many agens for 300-400 indoor vetted dinner guests than Trump had for his outdor rally of over 20,000.

 
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#2,975


Entire FBI hearing with Wray above. 3:13:00 Dems (#206 dems, seeking #12 RINOS to help) pushing hard for assault weapon ban and new semi-automatic restrictions. Actually every single dem. in this hearing brought up the assault weapons ban.

***^^This at 1:24:40 Ms.Lofgren reveals a very important part of the hearing - that there is IN FACT a gun registry, that the FBI used ATF's info. from sales receipts from a now-closed gun store!! Yes, we have a gun registry!

Per Wray father of shooter sold it to his son (prevents parents' liability like mass shooter Ethan's parents that the shooter googled ) but Wray couldn't provide date of sale or amount of sale?

5:20:00 Ross from NC blames the shooting of right wing domestic terrorists/white supremists...

Also, democrat Cohen expressed concerns about the whereabouts of blackmail tapes in "compromising positions" that might have been retrieved from Epsteins townhouse...@1:47:30.

OMG: 2:12:1 Swalwell asking Wray the difference between assault rifle and bolt action rifle and "which is faster"(inferring one is more evil, but neither know which one).
This whole hearing was so painful to watch, but on a long drive etc. honestly is worthhile to understand every single dem. congressperson has not only complete ignorance of firearms but absolute disgust and hatred for the entire 2A in any shape or form.
 
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#2,977
dankcincy said:
I guess that this is what goes down in the history books but I'm still of the opinion that the first 8 shots came from two different rifles. Only 3 from the shooter.
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Modern audio circuits have automatic gain control (AGC). That means background noise influences how any distinct sound appears. In this case, the audible reaction of the crowd after the first three shots changed the apparent sound of the following five shots.

To determine whether all but the last shot came from the same location you need to look at the delay between supersonic crack and muzzle report for each shot.

Since hundred thousands of people can do this with their hobby equipment, I doubt that the FBI would pull a fast one on the clear, publicly available evidence.
 
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#2,979
alpine44 said:
Modern audio circuits have automatic gain control (AGC). That means background noise influences how any distinct sound appears. In this case, the audible reaction of the crowd after the first three shots changed the apparent sound of the following five shots.

To determine whether all but the last shot came from the same location you need to look at the delay between supersonic crack and muzzle report for each shot.

Since hundred thousands of people can do this with their hobby equipment, I doubt that the FBI would pull a fast one on the clear, publicly available evidence.
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Wear a cloth mask to save you from a deadly plague. Arrows on the grocery store floor will save your life etc. People are absolute fucking retards and they worship their media pimps. They will believe anything the government tells them.
 
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#2,982
Malum Prohibitum said:
Director Wray calls the sniper who took out the assassin a "him" in the opening of the video, which contradicts the female sniper rumors. I wonder which is true?
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No it doesn't. Nobody claimed the female sniper that was there took the shot. Just that she was, in fact, there. And it's not a rumor. There are literally photos of her there.
 
#2,983
FourT6and2 said:
No it doesn't. Nobody claimed the female sniper that was there took the shot. Just that she was, in fact, there. And it's not a rumor. There are literally photos of her there.
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I went back and looked at the "100%" quote, and you are correct, he did not say anything about her taking the shot. I think most of us assumed that is what he meant, however, with the context of the discussion being whether that person, male or female, was the one who took the shot. I did, anyway.

Thanks for introducing even more uncertainty into what I thought I knew about this entire situation . . .

😆
 
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#2,986
The crazy thing is that in this environment of total distrust in the institutions, even if the FBI and DOJ pulled out all the stops and ordered agents to finally do an above-board investigation, only the NPCs and elderly drooling on themselves in a care facility will believe it.

They could use every tool known to man to document a detailed, accurate, and comprehensive report on this attempt and I would say 65-85% of the population won’t buy it. At least 65% of Congress won’t buy it, ranging from psychotic Dems who believe Trump people staged it from within, to others who default to their gut instinct that the DOJ is only capable of lies.
 
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#2,988
terrygood said:
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He's calling the picture of the rifle with the side mounted laser and no suppressor a shooter but clearly in the foreground that picture was taken well after the rally was over when trash was spread all over and everyone was evacuated.

Looks like it was staged after the fact.

ETA: The rifle configuration looks identical to the rifles other Bevar county SWAT are carrying and it looks like the picture was taken while the CSI team was on the roof hovering over the shooter, most likely Bevar county peeps climbing on all the roofs looking for anything anywhere
 
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#2,989
doubloon said:
He's calling the picture of the rifle with the side mounted laser and no suppressor a shooter but clearly in the foreground that picture was taken well after the rally was over when trash was spread all over and everyone was evacuated.

Looks like it was staged after the fact.
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Agreed.
Just another YouTube click bait video. Sensationalized heading and bull shit, made up presentation.

Unless you are going to YT to see how to change the oil filter on a GMC2500 HD, 99% of the videos are mostly drama titles screaming for clicks and Likes so they can get their ad revenue $.
 
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#2,991
Terry Cross said:
Agreed.
Just another YouTube click bait video. Sensationalized heading and bull shit, made up presentation.

Unless you are going to YT to see how to change the oil filter on a GMC2500 HD, 99% of the videos are mostly drama titles screaming for clicks and Likes so they can get their ad revenue $.
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This pic came out very early? Not as early as the photo Crooks dead, but way too early.

We must understand our enemies "Russia, china etc are speading distrust with false post.

This why we had secret service and the FBI go in front of congress and maybe set the country straight??
 
#2,993
terrygood said:
This pic came out very early? Not as early as the photo Crooks dead, but way too early.
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The pic was taken the day of the Trump shooting, after the shooting, after the crowd had been evacuated.

The suit with the team on the roof from the body cam video posted earlier is visible on the roof hovering over Crooks body.

I have no doubt even the mention of the fact the CSI team is visible in the photo will fuel more 3rd sniper revelations.

This doesn't really prove much of anything. Doesn't prove the photographer was there when Crooks was shot.

Early is relative, the earliest posting here that I know about was July 19
 
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