Running on every imaginable ammo isn't a criteria of any professional group I've ever seen. It's a pretty stupid criteria really.
Noveske DDF Barrels
- Thread starter kthomas
- Start date
100% for my serious ammo, I use single lot # batches for each rifle. Everything else is training ammo.
Missing the point entirely. No professional group would be put into that situation. As they have close to unlimited funds and supplies.
This is a situation where professional experiences is now placed in private situations.
I am done with this thread. Too many narrow point of views.
You mean, too many people who disagree with you?
I do not see the point in a rifle that is tuned to run absolute trash ammo. All of my guns are ported "small" according to you, and they run great even on steel case, in my limited experience with it. My Hodge is a 14.5" middy with a 0.072" port, as I recall. It runs great. My other rifle is an 11.5 carbine with a 0.68" port. It runs great, too. I am not trying to run 3rd world handloads "because what if!?". Each rifle has its ammo that it shoots well, and I stock up on it by the lot #. All else is plinking ammo, and is fine. As we saw half a decade ago, if you don't already have the ammo, you won't be getting it. 5.56 near evaporated. I think there is a better argument to be made in "stock good stuff" vs. "Get a trash gun so you can run anything you find" just to have it double-feed and outrun mags with certain cans and ammo unless you put a stiffer spring and heavier buffer in it and...see what I mean? Just run something that's vetted and works well and be happy.
Who exactly are you referring to here? Mercenaries/contractors? Again, I don't know of a single professional organization that has a requirement for every conceivable ammunition. Most (all?) have a very narrow ammunition selection.
Is this one of those gay discussion from LF or M4C where some tard stomps his foot and types in all caps "STAY IN YOUR LANE"?
I mean, if anything, “military experience translated to private life” would dictate to stock up with as much of a very small list of ammunition as possible. Ain’t no professional planning to run around and scrounge for ammo caches.
Just showed up today, I’m looking forward to trying it. This will be my first experience with the 6mm ARC.
I took it out for the first time on Saturday, I had some Nosler 95gr bt’s on the self that I used for break-in, starling brass, and 29.0grs of CFE223.
Once I got used to the feel of the rifle it printed a few groups that were sub moa, and one that were all touching. I’m not much of an AR shooter so I’m pretty impressed. With real load development it think it will be a solid shooter.
Has anyone else tried these out yet? Got my 18” out today finally and my experiences match J Max’s. My best couple groups were about MOA maybe a bit bigger. This trip was more so for function/break in/tuning than precision grouping. The lower I had it on has a basic milspec trigger with a good bit of creep so I tried taking the groups with a grain of salt this trip. It definitely opened up towards the end though. No rapid fire. Let it cool a bit between 5 or 10 rd groups, but not all the way down. Only got 60rd on it today. My next trip I’ll be running a SSAE so hopefully I can get it tightened up as it breaks in more.
FWIW mine is not a noveske build. Just their 18” DDF barrel and bolt in a mega mml upper
FWIW mine is not a noveske build. Just their 18” DDF barrel and bolt in a mega mml upper
Didn't Noveske publish the dimensional requirements for their DDF barrels? I think I have them somewhere meaning anyone could flute a barrel in the same manner. Seems kind of strange they released three common lengths when the actual length of the barrel should be taken into account to achieve the stated results/properties, no? 5/8x24 threads on the 5.56 would be great.
My 18” 6arc tightened up a bit the second outing. Was getting around .8 - 1.1” 5 shot groups with factory Hornady 108’s prone from a bipod and rear bag. I’ve got about 120rds on it now and probably get out to shoot it again next week. Haven’t decided yet if I should give it a cleaning at this point yet wait till after this next trip to the range.
I fully understand the range of “clean it fully between rounds for the first 20 rounds” and “what’s cleaning?”
Early on, me personally, I say a little cleanliness is next to can’t hurt.
I’ve come to be a believer in the Montana Bore Conditioner. I always shoot suppressed, seems to stay relatively clean by pushing a wet patch followed by a dry patch at the beginning and end of most sessions
I also swab all new barrels with it meow before shooting, I think that’s the real secret sauce…
Early on, me personally, I say a little cleanliness is next to can’t hurt.
I’ve come to be a believer in the Montana Bore Conditioner. I always shoot suppressed, seems to stay relatively clean by pushing a wet patch followed by a dry patch at the beginning and end of most sessions
I also swab all new barrels with it meow before shooting, I think that’s the real secret sauce…
I don't have the DDFs specifically, but within our family we have multiple Noveske barrels in 556 and 6.5 Grendel and they're all capable of sub MOA with factory ammo, and the 6.5 Grendels specifically can consistently shoot .6 MOA with Hornady Custom SST and/or Black ELD-M.
I'd be tempted by the DDF for cool points but for the fact I can't find fault with any of the existing barrels...
I'd be tempted by the DDF for cool points but for the fact I can't find fault with any of the existing barrels...
Pretty crazy how deep these flutes actually are.
And the bore looks amazing through the bore scope.
Just a few more parts to come in.
And the bore looks amazing through the bore scope.
Just a few more parts to come in.
I was surprised too. The top edges are almost sharp to the touch. The weight reduction is nice though
Is anybody seeing POI shift from heat sooner with these DDF barrels? Mine will be used in gas gun matches where 20-30 round strings wouldn't be uncommon.
I haven't even built my upper yet but I'm wondering if the DDF at 34oz is any better than a Douglas, WOA, or similar at 38-40oz.
I haven't even built my upper yet but I'm wondering if the DDF at 34oz is any better than a Douglas, WOA, or similar at 38-40oz.
Allegedly the DDF flutes were designed in conjunction with TACCOM to prevent such shifts.
So if that is true, it should be better than "regular" barrels. But it would be interesting to see what real world results say.
My Noveske barrels from late 2023 look like they were cut by sharks with friggin laser beams on their heads. Consistent .6 MOA 5 shot groups with factory Hornady. I've struggled to get a relatively quick 10 shot string to hold 1" re: when they heat up, but this isn't fluted, plain old round 20" .750 6.5 Grendel.
I can’t speak to longer strings, I’ve only shot up to 10rd groups with it and still working on breaking it in. I’m limited to factory ammo so trying to see how tight I can get it with that. My 10rd groups were shot earlier on and probably around 1.5-1.75MOA. I will say it does appear to cool noticeably faster. The barrel doesn’t feel at all hot after a 10rd string.
I guess I should have done more research on my intended use before 'pulling the trigger' on the DDF. 
I’m just curious to see other people’s experiences with them. We’re pretty early buyers of these. I’m not as experienced shooting precision gas guns as I am on bolt guns.I guess I should have done more research on my intended use before 'pulling the trigger' on the DDF.
I'd be surprised if you don't have a functional final result. I don't regularly fire 30 round strings but at the end of the day my question would be more along the lines of - if the Noveske can't, would the others be able to without a significant increase in weight? Does the accuracy degradation actually translate to something that really impacts your ability to hit as necessary?I guess I should have done more research on my intended use before 'pulling the trigger' on the DDF.
I concede 30 rounds is somewhat of an extreme case. Normally there would be 12-17 targets at the gas gun matches I shoot, so maybe 20-25 rounds would be a more realistic expectation, also depending if it's limited rounds or unlimited.
But the answer to both of your questions would be, yes for me. The other SPR barrels that are somewhat heavier in weight in the 38-40oz range, very well may resist their POI shift longer from the heat and longer strings of fire. 4-6oz additional barrel weight may or may not be worth it depending how large the POI shift from the heat is.
And yeah, accuracy degradation impacts hit ability to me, since it seems the shots later in a string are likely to be later in a course of fire and likely further out. The further targets may (or may not be) be larger so the moa could be similar or even more generous, but a barrel that goes from .7 to 1.5 or 2moa (or more) will have a negative impact. I say further out as in 600-700y.
I just don't know what the potential POI shift from heating up could be with the DDF, and when it starts. The claim of the flutes helping with cooling quicker isn't all that relevant to me since a typical stage par time is 90-110 seconds.
I get easily distracted by big words and shiny things.
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I did the final assembly of my upper with DDF barrel over my lunch break today. Man, that gas block pin is a pita. I have two 11.5" SS Noveske barrels that I've changed uppers and handguards on and neither was as bad as this one.
I probably won't get to shoot it until Monday. If all goes well next week with zeroing and seeing how my developed loads work in it, it will see it's first gas gun match next Sunday.
This was just a pic prior to final assembly and just getting everything fit up. Also gotta rob a SF MB from another rifle to put on this one. And baint it.
I probably won't get to shoot it until Monday. If all goes well next week with zeroing and seeing how my developed loads work in it, it will see it's first gas gun match next Sunday.
| Brand | Product |
| Noveske | 18" Stainless Lo-Pro DDF barrel 5.56 |
| PRI | 15" Gen III CF FF Round Forearm |
| PRI | 15" Gen III SPR Top Rail |
| PRI | Round Forearm QD adapter |
| Old Balls Inc | Quick Detach Post |
| LRT Manuf. | 15" Full Length Arca PRI FDE/Black (out of stock, waiting for more to be made) |
| Stubborn Mule Mfg. | Octagonal Upper Receiver |
| Griffin Armament | Gas Pocket BCG - milspec |
| Griffin Armament | SN-ACH-Gen 2 charging handle |
| Black River Tactical | BRT EZTUNE Gas Tube .093 |
| SOTAR | Barrel Ext. Shim kit w/ Loctite 609 |
| Amazon | Barrel Nut Shim kit |
| Harris | HBRM-S w/ Area419 ArcaLock (Atlas standing in for now until I get the arca) |
| Surefire | 556 SOCOM muzzle brake (APA micro bastard stand in for now) |
| Surefire | 556 SOCOM RC2 suppressor |
| Rapco | 33070 Early WWII ODG paint |
| Reptilia | AUS 34mm mount FDE |
| Reptilia | AUS Bubble level FDE |
| Reptilia | AUS ROF-90 RMR FDE |
| Arisaka | RMR Offset Optic Mount |
| Trijicon | RMR RM06 Type 1 |
| Burris | XTR Pro 5.5-35x56 Tremor 5 |
| POF | Renegade+ lower |
| Luth-AR | MBA-1 Stock |
| Luth-AR | Sidekick MBA-1 weight |
| ATC | AR Gold adjustable 2-stage flat |
| Tubb | Flat Wire buffer spring |
| Ergo | Tactical Deluxe Sure Grip |
This was just a pic prior to final assembly and just getting everything fit up. Also gotta rob a SF MB from another rifle to put on this one. And baint it.
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Finished assembly and got some rounds through it at the range today. It was apparent it prefers the 77gr SMK. I have a few different powders to try with the 73gr ELDM, but I’m pleased overall.
18" 5.56 DDF story time
I used the 5.56 18" DDF barrel in a Gas Gun Show match at Gravestone in TX.
8 stages, 12 impacts per stage, rounds limited to +5 (17) per stage
Average target distance was 464y, closest at 271y, furthest at 623y.
I hit 74% of the targets, finished 15/57 overall and 9/21 in DMR division, not my best. I started with a couple good stages, then a few bad stages, then a couple good stages to finish.
Shot a mover for the first time, full size ipsc steel at 500y moving 3mph. That was fun and challenging, I got 8/12 impacts on it.
At my range the day after the match I discovered my zero had shifted .5 low. Stunned, I realized maybe that's why I was low during the match and why I added .3 during the mover stage to get consistent impacts.
So, I shot two 5round groups .5 low, adjusted my zero, and then another 5 round group that was perfect. I let the barrel cool at this point, every 10-15 rounds I try to do that. Groups were around 1-1.5moa, not great.
As it's cooling, I'm messing with the suppressor to see how hot it is, and I end up moving the SF SOCOM2 locking collar and it clicks twice to tighten.
Barrel cools and I shoot another group, and wouldn't you know .5 high. Another group .5 high.
So, I adjust it back to the original zero, make sure the damn locking collar is tight, and then another perfect group.
I think the locking collar on the SOCOM2 must have slightly backed off during the match and that was the cause of my zero shift. No baffle strikes but just enough variance to change the zero, I guess.
I get home from the range determined to swap out the SOCOM muzzle device and can for one of my Griffin taper mounts and cans.
I run a few patches down the DDF barrel then check everything with my borescope and discover something I didn't want to see.
The gas port looks like hell. It looks badly eroded and I can feel a burr with my borescope. Ugh. I clean the DDF barrel with a soak of Wipe Out for a few hours to see if maybe it was carbon I was feeling. Nope, it's a pronounced burr and I can feel it with my patches once I'm paying attention to it.
So, I snap a couple pics and a video and email it to Noveske asking for advice. I just wanted to see if they would recommend any cures or just generally what their thoughts were.
They replied back quick and basically said, that's not right. He said that's a burr that's being pushed down the barrel and shouldn't have made it past QC. He said I could try some JB Bore paste in that area but they want to replace my barrel no matter what, but it might be a while because they don't have any available right now. A couple emails back and forth and he asked about my build, and I explained every part I used, the procedures I used, what my groups were doing for the first few hundred rounds, just every bit of info I thought they'd want to know. His next reply was they found a barrel, he personally checked it with a bore scope, and it looked good, and he sent me an RMA with shipping label. My DDF barrel is now on its way back to Noveske and another DDF barrel is waiting to be sent to me once received.
I didn't ask for a replacement, I just wanted their opinion. I have an 18" Krieger in a KAC rifle with >6K rounds and its gas port is perfectly round, maybe just a very faint tear drop but just visual. This Noveske was apparent in its erosion and burr. My groups with the DDF weren't terrible, I had one 5-shot group that was the smallest I've shot with an AR at .33moa. Most were 1-1.2moa and every now an then I'd get a flier out to 1.75moa. Maybe the flier was from the burr, maybe the flier was from the suppressor. Couldn't have been from me, no way lol.
When the new DDF barrel gets here, I'll build it out the same way but with a Griffin taper mount and my Griffin Recce5, AAC M4-2000, AAC Mini4, or OCL PoloK (all have Griffin taper adapters). I'll check each one for gas efficiency, recoil, and group size. Then, hopefully, all will be well, and I'll be ready for the next GGS match.
After I post this, I'll see if I can add some pics from my phone.
TLDR: gas port erosion/burr showed up in a few hundred rounds on the 18" DDF 5.56, Noveske is replacing it. This is not a dig on Noveske or the DDF, overall I was pretty happy with the original barrel, hoping the replacement is even better.
I used the 5.56 18" DDF barrel in a Gas Gun Show match at Gravestone in TX.
8 stages, 12 impacts per stage, rounds limited to +5 (17) per stage
Average target distance was 464y, closest at 271y, furthest at 623y.
I hit 74% of the targets, finished 15/57 overall and 9/21 in DMR division, not my best. I started with a couple good stages, then a few bad stages, then a couple good stages to finish.
Shot a mover for the first time, full size ipsc steel at 500y moving 3mph. That was fun and challenging, I got 8/12 impacts on it.
At my range the day after the match I discovered my zero had shifted .5 low. Stunned, I realized maybe that's why I was low during the match and why I added .3 during the mover stage to get consistent impacts.
So, I shot two 5round groups .5 low, adjusted my zero, and then another 5 round group that was perfect. I let the barrel cool at this point, every 10-15 rounds I try to do that. Groups were around 1-1.5moa, not great.
As it's cooling, I'm messing with the suppressor to see how hot it is, and I end up moving the SF SOCOM2 locking collar and it clicks twice to tighten.
Barrel cools and I shoot another group, and wouldn't you know .5 high. Another group .5 high.
So, I adjust it back to the original zero, make sure the damn locking collar is tight, and then another perfect group.
I think the locking collar on the SOCOM2 must have slightly backed off during the match and that was the cause of my zero shift. No baffle strikes but just enough variance to change the zero, I guess.
I get home from the range determined to swap out the SOCOM muzzle device and can for one of my Griffin taper mounts and cans.
I run a few patches down the DDF barrel then check everything with my borescope and discover something I didn't want to see.
The gas port looks like hell. It looks badly eroded and I can feel a burr with my borescope. Ugh. I clean the DDF barrel with a soak of Wipe Out for a few hours to see if maybe it was carbon I was feeling. Nope, it's a pronounced burr and I can feel it with my patches once I'm paying attention to it.
So, I snap a couple pics and a video and email it to Noveske asking for advice. I just wanted to see if they would recommend any cures or just generally what their thoughts were.
They replied back quick and basically said, that's not right. He said that's a burr that's being pushed down the barrel and shouldn't have made it past QC. He said I could try some JB Bore paste in that area but they want to replace my barrel no matter what, but it might be a while because they don't have any available right now. A couple emails back and forth and he asked about my build, and I explained every part I used, the procedures I used, what my groups were doing for the first few hundred rounds, just every bit of info I thought they'd want to know. His next reply was they found a barrel, he personally checked it with a bore scope, and it looked good, and he sent me an RMA with shipping label. My DDF barrel is now on its way back to Noveske and another DDF barrel is waiting to be sent to me once received.
I didn't ask for a replacement, I just wanted their opinion. I have an 18" Krieger in a KAC rifle with >6K rounds and its gas port is perfectly round, maybe just a very faint tear drop but just visual. This Noveske was apparent in its erosion and burr. My groups with the DDF weren't terrible, I had one 5-shot group that was the smallest I've shot with an AR at .33moa. Most were 1-1.2moa and every now an then I'd get a flier out to 1.75moa. Maybe the flier was from the burr, maybe the flier was from the suppressor. Couldn't have been from me, no way lol.
When the new DDF barrel gets here, I'll build it out the same way but with a Griffin taper mount and my Griffin Recce5, AAC M4-2000, AAC Mini4, or OCL PoloK (all have Griffin taper adapters). I'll check each one for gas efficiency, recoil, and group size. Then, hopefully, all will be well, and I'll be ready for the next GGS match.
After I post this, I'll see if I can add some pics from my phone.
TLDR: gas port erosion/burr showed up in a few hundred rounds on the 18" DDF 5.56, Noveske is replacing it. This is not a dig on Noveske or the DDF, overall I was pretty happy with the original barrel, hoping the replacement is even better.
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MY experiences with Novekse customer service has been exceptional. They've gone way above and beyond in two cases where they were not at fault at all. It is one of the reasons I buy from them/recommend them with confidence.
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I too had a great experience with their customer service with my DDF barrel. Nothing to do with the bore but they were very helpful when they could have just passed it off.
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