Same! Although I am building my daughter a CZ457 at the moment and will likely upgrade to a Venom on it.
What Optic Are YOU Running?
- Thread starter Malum Prohibitum
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ZCO 527 MPCT2 on Vudoo. Earlier, Vudoo wore one of three Vortex Razor 6-36x56 optics in my safe.
Why the switch: The higher the max magnification, the narrower the reticle - which can become a problem when you're trying to scan .2-mil subtensions on the clock. I learned the hard way that zooming out the Razor for wide field of view (widely-spaced / close-in targets) causes the .030-mil-wide reticle to shrink to where it's difficult to quickly discern which .2-mil subtension is which. The ZCO 527's .036-mil-wide reticle, being 20% wider, makes .2-mil subtensions easier to see at lower magnification. (Note: The tree layout of the Razor and ZCO scopes is similar, with the .2-mil subtensions all the same width straddling the vartical. The Nightforce MIL-C reticles do it better, with subtensions alternating straddling or on different sides of the vertical.)
Other likes/dislikes:
Why the switch: The higher the max magnification, the narrower the reticle - which can become a problem when you're trying to scan .2-mil subtensions on the clock. I learned the hard way that zooming out the Razor for wide field of view (widely-spaced / close-in targets) causes the .030-mil-wide reticle to shrink to where it's difficult to quickly discern which .2-mil subtension is which. The ZCO 527's .036-mil-wide reticle, being 20% wider, makes .2-mil subtensions easier to see at lower magnification. (Note: The tree layout of the Razor and ZCO scopes is similar, with the .2-mil subtensions all the same width straddling the vartical. The Nightforce MIL-C reticles do it better, with subtensions alternating straddling or on different sides of the vertical.)
Other likes/dislikes:
- Like: Of course, both scopes have superb clarity for rimfire. At centerfire ranges (>500 yards), the ZCO is marginally clearer in challenging environmental conditions - but, to me, there's definitely not $1000+ worth of difference. Both scopes have exemplary (but different) tactile feel (full disclosure: my two early-release Razors went back to have the gummy-feeling turrets fixed).
- Dislike (minor): My 5-year-old ZCO 527 has the 15-mil-per-revolution turrets, so I have to pay careful attention to avoid "over-dialing" - and the .1-mil marks are very close together so my septuagenarian eyes, again, didn't see that I mis-dialed in a match yesterday. Also, if I have to dial past 15 mils (one revolution), I have to remember to look at the smaller numbers at the top of the turret. No biggie, just takes a couple more seconds.
- Dislike: For the price of a ZCO scope, they could include a bleeping sunshade. No freaking way I'd pay the required price for one. In the VERY rare cases I need a sunshade (ZCO manages flare extremely well), I just tape an unused Vortex shade onto the bell. For those who call BS, that anyone who can pay $4k+ for a scope can lay out a few more $ for a sunshade - yeah, well, one reason I could afford a ZCO is my refusal to pay $75 for a little metal tube that Vortex includes even on cheap scopes.
I've used a S&B 5-25 PMII with Gen 2 XR reticle the last 2 years. I'll probably try one of my ZCO 5-27 this year.
On my Anschutz 64 silhouette and CZ 457MTR Athlon 10-40X56 and on my CZ457Benchrest and 2500X custom Athlon 15-60X56 Gen 1 and have a 15-60X56 Gen 2 on order. Had a Sightron Siii 10-50X60 but hated the target dot reticule other then that I was a great scope.
I run zcos for center-fire and love them but the g2 viper pst hasn't cost me any points in a rimfire match. The parallax is incredibly forgiving and it's tracked just fine for the last few years.
I have the Razor Gen III on Vudoo and a NF 7-35 with Mil-XT on a RimX.
I like both scopes but lean to the Vortex. I had a Tangent for a short while but at 70 years old I had trouble with dialing those tiny numbers.
I guess I may eventually pickup a ZCO to see if I am missing out but need to study their reticles to see what appeals to me.
I like both scopes but lean to the Vortex. I had a Tangent for a short while but at 70 years old I had trouble with dialing those tiny numbers.
I guess I may eventually pickup a ZCO to see if I am missing out but need to study their reticles to see what appeals to me.
When I put an Athlon Cronus on my 2500XR 9yrs ago, I felt like I was going overboard on optics for a 22RF rifle, but having invested in the custom action, Krieger bbl, Jewell trigger, and Manners stock, it made sense. When I sold that Stiller & moved on to Modacam modified 40X & XB rifles, I stayed with Cronus scopes, and when I bought Vudoo actions, I still didn't move away from the Japan-sourced Athlon scopes.
I shoot Kahles K624i scopes on my CF Bighorn rifles, and the ability to set the parallax at 600 & forget it on those scopes highlights the one thing about the Cronus scopes that I don't like - parallax is picky, especially on stages where targets may be from 25-200+yds. At my age (73), I'm not terribly interested in investing four times the cost of a Cronus for a ZCO, but then I've not asked a good shooting friend to get behind one of his ZCO scopes, so I don't know what I'm missing....
I shoot Kahles K624i scopes on my CF Bighorn rifles, and the ability to set the parallax at 600 & forget it on those scopes highlights the one thing about the Cronus scopes that I don't like - parallax is picky, especially on stages where targets may be from 25-200+yds. At my age (73), I'm not terribly interested in investing four times the cost of a Cronus for a ZCO, but then I've not asked a good shooting friend to get behind one of his ZCO scopes, so I don't know what I'm missing....
This is my set up. I didn't think about it until a post above but with the ZCO I don't have eye fatigue. I shot 2 matches Saturday and none at all.
Started with a 5-25 Strike Eagle then moved to the Razor 6-36 when funding allowed. It's a great scope and I really love how easy it is to zero, the reticle is fine, the brightness is great, and the glass is good. If I hadn't gotten a discount and had to pay full MSRP I would have just gone for the ZCo I wanted instead.
Razor Gen 3 , used strike eagle 5-25 for a long time — love the reticle and the overall scope function with ability to get the parallax really close — so the transition to the Razor was a no brainer — more of the same just way better
I'm literally doing this exact same thing. Razor will be here tomorrow, I'm so stoked!
That is what I shoot on my centerfire rifle, and same here.
Although I really want a Kahles 540 . . . maybe I get that for the centerfire and put the Steiner on my rimfire?
I wanted to thank everybody so far on their input to this thread. I have never been to a rimfire competition, and I was genuinely surprised at the price range and magnifications of the scopes most posting. It appears ZCO is the one most frequently mentioned above, which I would not have bet my next paycheck would have been the case.
I guess I thought with the shorter distances involved the scopes would be lower magnification maybe and folks would not spend ZCO money on a rimfire.
Thank you for providing your reasons for each scope selection, too. It sounds like there are some good reasons to at least consider a higher end scope on a rimfire gun.
I guess I thought with the shorter distances involved the scopes would be lower magnification maybe and folks would not spend ZCO money on a rimfire.
Thank you for providing your reasons for each scope selection, too. It sounds like there are some good reasons to at least consider a higher end scope on a rimfire gun.
IOR 6-24x56 Tactical. Tried an Arken during a PRS-22 match and it would not return to zero, nor would it spin up to the MOA I needed for the stage. Had this spare scope, so I run with it.
One rimfire-specific scope "thing" not mentioned so far: the elevation turret on a match-use rimfire scope will really get a workout compared to centerfire.
- With the commonly-used centerfire calibers in PRS-style matches, one will typically use a max of 10-ish mils of elevation; hotrod calibers 8-ish.
- In the PRS-style rimfire matches I've attended, max range has been 375-415 yards. Dialing to 400 yards will take somewhere around 20-22 mils with popular match ammo brands. With more typical ranges 75-175 yards - not uncommonly in a single stage - one is still cranking through 5-6 mils.
Who said precision rifle is too fussy for the masses.....
Here is my Vudoo with the Kahles K540i. I am running a ZCO527 on my centerfire and evaluating the Kahles to determine if this will be my new go-to scope.
I hope you write up a comparison between the two scopes in the Kahles K540i thread.
I provided some initial opinions in this thread. I expect there will be others who are much more qualified than I am to review the Kahles compared to ZCO and maybe TT.
I’m running a Burris XTR PRO with SCR 2 1/4 reticle.
It’s the same scope I run on my 2 centerfire match rifles and I like consistency.
It’s the same scope I run on my 2 centerfire match rifles and I like consistency.
This is what I did but, tried a Leupold MK4 HD before the jump to the Razor. All three of these scopes have what I considered to be the important features for rimfire PRS shooting.
- First focal plane
- Mil Turrets and Reticle
- Ability to focus at short ranges
- Exposed elevation turret with lots of travel
- Parallax adjustment
- Zero stop
I hadn’t used my Strike Eagle 5-25 in a match in a while so wanted to try it out last weekend and it worked very well. It’s really a good scope in that price range. I will be putting the Gen III Razor back on though as it is obviously a better scope all around but also more money.
A $100 Vector Veyron 2-8x32 (Chinuh)
It is compact, weighs 13oz, has a SFP MIL reticle and locking MIL turrets
Glass is fine.
It's for rimfire things, not for competition or long range
It is compact, weighs 13oz, has a SFP MIL reticle and locking MIL turrets
Glass is fine.
It's for rimfire things, not for competition or long range
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Those who are fortunate enough that have used the vortex gen 3 6x36 and the ZCO 840. Is the ZCO that much superior ?
Some will say yes, some will say no. There are some differences, I happen to love the 840 and have a bunch of them, but have never tried the vortex. Pick a retical that you love, pick the knobs you love and see where it leads you. Everyone’s eyes are different and like/value different things.
Couple of MOA Strike Eagles purchased used from folks switching to Mils.
The reticle and turrets absolutely agree full range, these have been used for over 5 years on various rifles, with zero failures.
I typically use 8-16X for offhand stages, 16-20 or 25x for barricades and prone out to 400+yds (have taken the bolt gun to a smidge over 500, autoloader is a recent build). The glass is easy on the eyes, with broad eye box and the EBR7C reticle which fully illuminates, is close to perfect in my opinion. Nothing sees through mirage perfectly, but I can call my hits most days and the reticle has near perfect indicators for repeatable holds, yet allows “running the reticle” to be so efficient I rarely dial.
Please let us know a little more after you shoot with it. I am very curious about that scope.
I will be shooting my Kahles at a PRS22 event this weekend, and so far, I'm really impressed. The field of view FOV is fantastic. I usually use my ZCO 527 with a magnification of 15x, which gives me a FOV of 24 mils. With the Kahles K540i, I can zoom in to around 21 or 22 magnification and still achieve about 24 mils across the FOV. At 15x magnification on the Kahles, the FOV extends to over 34 mils.
I shoot rimfire F-Class which i shot prone. From my centerfire Fclass experience , i knew i needed an objective of 56mm to get an exit pupil of close to 1.5mm. That makes it easier to get behind. So on my 40X i have a Sightron S3 8-32 that i run mostly at 32. For my Anschutz 54 i run a Nightforce NXS 12-42 and run it at 32. On my CZ457 i run a Golden Eagle at 32 to on a bright day 40.
They are all good midrange scopes. They get the job done.
David
They are all good midrange scopes. They get the job done.
David
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I keep looking for a reason to upgrade my SE 5-25 on my T1x...but finding it hard to justify the cost. It really is a solid and the glass is damn good.
Just an FYI those of you that suggested ZCO and did so very well, you guys should feel bad. But also good. I have a ZC527 OD green on the way.
It better make my dick hard...
lol
It better make my dick hard...
lol
Currently running an Element Theos, but I have a black gen 3 razor coming in to replace it. Will be running the razor this nrl season and will see where I am next year as I look every now and then at a ZCO or the new Kahles K540i...
I’ll open by saying Sunday was my 4th match, so take this for what it’s worth.
First was with a Match Pro ED, 2 &3 with a Mark 4hd, and Sundays NRL22 April match was with the K540i.
Biggest most noticeable difference was the FOV and image quality. It didn’t feel like I was looking thru a paper towel roll.
I could be way off position and still get behind the scope with ease.
Shot most the match on 15ish is power, and the FOV was just huge. Never came out of the scope to engage next target, unless there was a move involved. Never “got lost”…
The controls are fantastic, as I imagine all top tier optics are, just wish the fast focus eyepiece was locking.
The other somewhat negative is the size ratio. She’s big out back, and must be mounted at the end of my rail with a short LOP.
Did it help with scores? I’m not sure, still missed 3 targets on the day, but I didn’t time out. Some of that was ease of finding targets.
The 540 is exactly what I was looking for when I talked to Richard @CSTactical, biggest image possible, with good clarity!
That said, I just started a second Rimfire build and I don’t think 540 type budget is in it for this one. This was all supposed to be a cheap winter hobby, until somebody convinced me to try a match, and now I keep chasing that little dopamine hit you get from an impact.
