Low Recoil AR Load

[N_Turs]

Ok, first post in this section of the forum. I've been reloading 9mm for years with a dillon 650 no questions there got that down. But getting deeper into 2-gun pcsl type matches and Im looking to work up the lightest recoiling load possible for my match rifle. What do you all recommend using that will meter well in a dillion and be temp stable. I live in AZ so extreme temp swings are normal depending on the time of year. This load will not need to be accurate past 100yds. If I shoot a match at distance Ill just use some factory ammo until I start down the rabbit hole of accuracy.

I currently have dillon carbide dies in 223, still need to get the case trimmer to help process everything quickly. Ive snagged some powders, currently have varget, tac, n133 and stable match. Im thinking the stable match and varget will be saved for accurate loads later down the road but worry Tac might be to temp sensitive for a year round blaster load.

Feel free to talk shit of flame me I got think skin and its the interweb so I dont take offense to any of it.

Thanks for the help y'all I know this isnt really the style of shooting most people do here but this forum just seems to always produce excellent advice and info so Im sure one of you putos can point me in the right direction.

 

[Bacarrat]

Load for accuracy, 223 doesnt have that much recoil to begin with. If you are trying to load slow with a low powder charge you are going to be creating more issues and possibly run into pressure issues trying to go slow. Rifle loading isn't like pistol, you must have case fill.

 

[Will J]

Somewhat agree with the above. A good comp will help more than underpowered loads. Cheapest bullets are generally some form of 55gr FMJ, but you can reduce projectile weight to some degree and it will decrease felt recoil a tiny bit. Just roll with the starting charge weights in loading manuals. TAC is likely your best option for blasting ammo from what you listed. Just use a "starting" charge of TAC with a 55gr bullet and a decent comp and go play. You don't really need Benchrest/PRS level accuracy for carbine matches.

Decreasing charge weights too much will lead to failures to function as the gun gets dirty over the course of a match or 3. I tried running some cheap 35gr bullets with a low-ish charge of H335 and they ran great when the gun was all cleaned up. But as the crud started accumulating over the course of a match, I had a few failures after 4-5 stages. Loss of reliability isn't worth the tiny savings in "recoil" which as mentioned is pretty minimal in .223/5.56 anyway.

 

[N_Turs]

Somewhat agree with the above. A good comp will help more than underpowered loads. Cheapest bullets are generally some form of 55gr FMJ, but you can reduce projectile weight to some degree and it will decrease felt recoil a tiny bit. Just roll with the starting charge weights in loading manuals. TAC is likely your best option for blasting ammo from what you listed. Just use a "starting" charge of TAC with a 55gr bullet and a decent comp and go play. You don't really need Benchrest/PRS level accuracy for carbine matches.

Decreasing charge weights too much will lead to failures to function as the gun gets dirty over the course of a match or 3. I tried running some cheap 35gr bullets with a low-ish charge of H335 and they ran great when the gun was all cleaned up. But as the crud started accumulating over the course of a match, I had a few failures after 4-5 stages. Loss of reliability isn't worth the tiny savings in "recoil" which as mentioned is pretty minimal in .223/5.56 anyway.

Ok, This makes sense didnt realize the case fill was such a big deal. Guns already comped and shoots really flat tbh I just like messing with stuff and figured getting started loading blaster ammo on the 650 would be best before trying to load for accuracy. Maybe Ill try and find some 45gr bullets and do a min charge with tac and see how it does. Definitely dont want to loose any reliability. What type of failures were you seeing?

 

[BobinNC]

If your worried about temp stability think: H322, Benchmark, and Varget. Recoil is moderate with even heavy 5.56 loads.

24.5 grains of Benchmark and a good 52-55 grain bullet ( like Hornady's 53gr BTHP Match w/ Cannelure)
is an outstanding and accurate combo. They are not much more than the common 55 grain FMJ's and can be had at around .13 cents a piece in bulk.

 

[SD3Gunner]

Ok, first post in this section of the forum. I've been reloading 9mm for years with a dillon 650 no questions there got that down. But getting deeper into 2-gun pcsl type matches and Im looking to work up the lightest recoiling load possible for my match rifle. What do you all recommend using that will meter well in a dillion and be temp stable. I live in AZ so extreme temp swings are normal depending on the time of year. This load will not need to be accurate past 100yds. If I shoot a match at distance Ill just use some factory ammo until I start down the rabbit hole of accuracy.

I currently have dillon carbide dies in 223, still need to get the case trimmer to help process everything quickly. Ive snagged some powders, currently have varget, tac, n133 and stable match. Im thinking the stable match and varget will be saved for accurate loads later down the road but worry Tac might be to temp sensitive for a year round blaster load.

Feel free to talk shit of flame me I got think skin and its the interweb so I dont take offense to any of it.

Thanks for the help y'all I know this isnt really the style of shooting most people do here but this forum just seems to always produce excellent advice and info so Im sure one of you putos can point me in the right direction.

i like 55gr using Tac or H335 running 2700ish fps. has same 50yd poi as 77gr running about the same speed.

 

[Former Cav]

23.5 grains of Varget. Winchester small rifle primer, your brass, (I used NEW winchester brass for the 600 yard line), and I used a 77 grain sierra match king bullet. Since you are only shooting to 100 yards, I'd say you could use any reasonable quality 55 grain bullet.
and since 23.5 grains of Varget worked for 600 yards, I'm guessing you could use a lesser amount. Be sure you have enough to cycle the rifle. GOOD luck.
OF course, all disclaimers apply, Your rifle / chamber is different then mine. REDUCE all loads 10 percent and work your way back up.

 

[tekmann2377]

I have found that lightest recoiling AR loads have been with lighter bullets, and faster powders. A 40 Vmax with N133 will be extremely soft shooting. If you are concerned about reliability, you don't necessarily need to load a light charge, even heavier charges with the light bullet/fast powder combo will still be extremely soft.

Another favorable byproduct of this combination is that fairly stiff charge will generate plenty of gas for the muzzle brake to work, and further reduce recoil.

Varget and TAC are pretty slow burning to use with 55 gr or lower projectiles.

Benchmark and H322 are the most insensitive fast burning powders. N133 is more so, but the N1** series VV powders were formulated to be less temp sensitive and I doubt this would actually be an issue for you.

 

[Will J]

Ok, This makes sense didnt realize the case fill was such a big deal. Guns already comped and shoots really flat tbh I just like messing with stuff and figured getting started loading blaster ammo on the 650 would be best before trying to load for accuracy. Maybe Ill try and find some 45gr bullets and do a min charge with tac and see how it does. Definitely dont want to loose any reliability. What type of failures were you seeing?

Seemed like just wasn't enough pressure to keep the gun cycling reliably. Guessing it just wasnt pushing the bolt hard enough and maybe short stroking a tad so losing vigor in ejection and chambering next round fully. Just wasnt enough gas/pressure to make it run consistently.

 

[RegionRat]

I just like messing with stuff and figured getting started loading blaster ammo on the 650 would be best before trying to load for accuracy.

Try thinking about this in reverse...

If you know a good recipe first, then being able to mass produce it with a progressive is yet another challenge.
The best powders for temp stability are usually not ball powders, and as such they tend to be extruded single base which also implies that they are not as easy to run through an automatic powder drop.
When thinking about an AR, you have the added burden of satisfying the gas system to keep the feed and function reliable as the first priority.

On the other hand, up to 300 yards it really doesn't take sophisticated ammo to hold inside the X, so unless you are needing ammo that runs less than 0.5 MOA, it isn't hard to feed an AR with your Dillon. YMMV
Good Luck.

 

[fedupflyer]

Is loading for non-match grade 223/556 even worth it right now?
Primers are three time the price and powder is at least 50% higher.
I just purchased a case of PMC 55g for less than $0.40 / rnd.

 

[Bacarrat]

Is loading for non-match grade 223/556 even worth it right now?
Primers are three time the price and powder is at least 50% higher.
I just purchased a case of PMC 55g for less than $0.40 / rnd.

This is the reason why I don't load blasting ammo.

 

[N_Turs]

Is loading for non-match grade 223/556 even worth it right now?
Primers are three time the price and powder is at least 50% higher.
I just purchased a case of PMC 55g for less than $0.40 / rnd.

Yeah I understand that, I've been able to pick up some bulk ammo for .38 a round. Totally understand the cost savings isn't there my thought was just to be able to load a lighter recoiling round and get some experience loading rifle ammo before getting to accurate loads. Maybe I just have it ass backwards and the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[N_Turs]

Try thinking about this in reverse...

If you know a good recipe first, then being able to mass produce it with a progressive is yet another challenge.
The best powders for temp stability are usually not ball powders, and as such they tend to be extruded single base which also implies that they are not as easy to run through an automatic powder drop.
When thinking about an AR, you have the added burden of satisfying the gas system to keep the feed and function reliable as the first priority.

On the other hand, up to 300 yards it really doesn't take sophisticated ammo to hold inside the X, so unless you are needing ammo that runs less than 0.5 MOA, it isn't hard to feed an AR with your Dillon. YMMV
Good Luck.

Right now the rifle is running on very little gas as it is. I run a ti carrier and adjustable gas block got it chocked out pretty well. My thought was with the lighter mass bolt I should be able to get reliable cycling with a low power load. Maybe not tho... Only reason I was looking to go down this path first is because Im on the wait list for the Ingenuity system. My plan was to get that and use the 650 but manually dump the powder from the Ingenuity. Maybe Im off my rocker on that too.

 

[N_Turs]

I have found that lightest recoiling AR loads have been with lighter bullets, and faster powders. A 40 Vmax with N133 will be extremely soft shooting. If you are concerned about reliability, you don't necessarily need to load a light charge, even heavier charges with the light bullet/fast powder combo will still be extremely soft.

Another favorable byproduct of this combination is that fairly stiff charge will generate plenty of gas for the muzzle brake to work, and further reduce recoil.

Varget and TAC are pretty slow burning to use with 55 gr or lower projectiles.

Benchmark and H322 are the most insensitive fast burning powders. N133 is more so, but the N1** series VV powders were formulated to be less temp sensitive and I doubt this would actually be an issue for you.

Im gonna get some light ass bullets and see what I can come up with.

 

[Bantam1]

26 grains of Win 748 over a 55 grain FMJ is very soft shooting and still has enough gas to run the gun for a cheap easy metering load.

 

[RegionRat]

My plan was to get that and use the 650 but manually dump the powder from the Ingenuity. Maybe Im off my rocker on that too.

Not at all. Many of us run a progressive using a funnel to add the charges from a far more accurate powder measure.

Be patient and give yourself a chance to learn the ropes on loading. Working with an experienced mentor is still the fastest and efficient way to climb the learning curve.

Most times, any club that competes will have folks who will adopt you and get you up to speed with a lot less grief than you will experience on your own.

With your AR loading, when there is a need to run at magazine length and have accuracy at distance (over 300 yards), then take your time and try the known Pet Loads for starters and then see where you can deviate once you have some experience. Up to 300, you can run any of the decent bullets, but to go out to say 600, try something like the 69 or 77 SMK with Varget just to make it an easy start.

Getting a sub MOA group at ranges past 300 yards from an AR15, means you have to make decent ammo and also be able to shoot well. Most beginners learn that getting a group at 300 isn't too difficult, but then getting the SD down and being able to work your way out to 600 will be a little slower. Give yourself a little time to get some brass reload cycles under your belt. Good Luck and enjoy the ride.

 

[mtrmn]

55 gr bullet, 24.5 gr TAC