Goddamn @Frank Green ~ You make a hell of a barrel. Just put [the very first] 80 rounds through my 20" Bartlein/WinTac 1:10 .308 Factory AI barrel, and now can't wait to see what my 24" setup can do. These barrels are notably beefier than the Lothar-Walther, and weigh a full pound heavier. Full targets shown, no cherry picking. You can tell which rounds were shot early, as the barrel slowly settled in [due to being brand new]. I did take the time to bake molybdenum disulfide into the barrel: 1/2 the M24 SWS barrel break-in process while only wet-patching with moly during this process. It seems to respond well to it. Finally, I have a barrel that likes Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr. You've made me a believer, Frank. Keep snagging those beautiful batches of Crucible Steel! (To ease folk's minds, no: I did not end up using the boresnake at any point. Opted not to.)
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Special order direct from Win Tactical.
20" 308s are retarded... run a 16 or a 24 if you "need" the velocity you're going subsonic before 1k regardless. You are talking minimal velocity loss between a 16 and a 20. Run the numbers with a 175... 16" 308s ftw.
Accuracy International ATAX SA Finish Barrel: .308 Win, 16.5" - 5/8x24, Black - Bartlein
Win Tactical : Factory Accuracy International Barrel, chambered by Win Tactical
www.milehighshooting.com
20" 308s are retarded... run a 16 or a 24 if you "need" the velocity you're going subsonic before 1k regardless. You are talking minimal velocity loss between a 16 and a 20. Run the numbers with a 175... 16" 308s ftw.
View attachment 8685752
Accuracy International ATAX SA Finish Barrel: .308 Win, 16.5" - 5/8x24, Black - Bartlein
Win Tactical : Factory Accuracy International Barrel, chambered by Win Tactical
Not if the length of your rail won't accommodate something as short as 16.5". I would go 18", but that would require me to get one spun up, and when 20" pre-fits are readily available, it's the easy choice.
^ That's like seeing a really hot chick from across the room, but after eyeballing for a moment you notice her dick poking through her dress.
Hard pass good Sir, but if it floats your boat I'll pretend I didn't see you mount it...
Hard pass good Sir, but if it floats your boat I'll pretend I didn't see you mount it...
Currently in ISO of a new scope. This will have to do for now. At least it's still better then a MK5.
Ah yes..Coyote brown TT on ES AX. I’m sure you’re familiar with that color combo? Come on, let’s see it.. It’ll hurt, but you can always reminisce..
And it never gets old seeing this AI picture. You must miss it.. lol.. And there’s a few here with ES/ TT combo’s too.I may know a thing or two about the coyote TT x ES comboView attachment 8686266
Miss it is an understatement. I should’ve kept it how it was before the vision chassis and had basically the twin to yours. Now that I’ve recently become a dad, the likely hood of seeing one in my home is slim. At least in the next several years lol
Corrected statement is "knew" as in past tenseI may know a thing or two about the coyote TT x ES combo
Obligatory elite sand pic
Y'know what, I'm gonna step in on this one:
All you folks who say [Insert Cheap Scope Mfg Here] is better than a Leupold MK5HD: post up your 10, 15 and 20 round 100 Yard/meter shot groups and show me what you can do with yours. Because I don't buy the noise being generated for one second.
I've quite consistently have had great success with my Leupold MK5HDs. And mated with my AT308s -- whether with Lothar-Walther or Bartlein/WinTac barrels -- the shot groups I've posted on here for a year and a half now speak for themselves.
The ONLY downside I've seen to a Leupold is the slightly narrow eyebox, which forces consistent cheek weld... I have a hard time even faulting this. Everything else has been stellar, whether it's the MK5HD 5-25x56mm or 7-35x56mm. The only eyebox I've seen better is from glass twice as expensive i.e. a Schmidt & Bender PMII Ultra Performance, ZCO, etc.
I'd take a MK5HD over a Zeiss S3 or S5, having compared them back-to-back at distance: the Leupold has better clarity, less color distortion, and puts less strain on your eyes. The only comparable scope in its class is a NF ATACR 7-35x that beats it on clarity and ruggedness, with the ATACR 5-25x having an odd distortion when compared to the same spec MK5HD. And the ATACR is almost a full $1000 more.
At under $2000 for MIL/LEO, the MK5HD is a fantastic scope for all that it does, with phenomenal light gathering and practically non-existent chromatic aberrations, even on max zoom while trying to engage 1200 yard IPSCs.
And the zero-stop system is the best I've ever used: the ease at which I can re-zero AND the zero-stop simultaneously in the field is phenomenal.
Both of my scopes track extremely consistently, turn after turn, having done multiple tests checking both. Further, I've seen these scopes take blows in muddy, rainy sniper competitions first hand, scuffed and banged up, and still perform without a hitch.
So if your bias is from using a Leupold M3 on a M24 from two decades ago (or more), or you are just parroting what others are saying to sound trendy? Put your money where your mouth is: post what you can do with your "cheap" scope, or shut up. The mouth-breathing keyboard warrior banter is exhausting.
All you folks who say [Insert Cheap Scope Mfg Here] is better than a Leupold MK5HD: post up your 10, 15 and 20 round 100 Yard/meter shot groups and show me what you can do with yours. Because I don't buy the noise being generated for one second.
I've quite consistently have had great success with my Leupold MK5HDs. And mated with my AT308s -- whether with Lothar-Walther or Bartlein/WinTac barrels -- the shot groups I've posted on here for a year and a half now speak for themselves.
The ONLY downside I've seen to a Leupold is the slightly narrow eyebox, which forces consistent cheek weld... I have a hard time even faulting this. Everything else has been stellar, whether it's the MK5HD 5-25x56mm or 7-35x56mm. The only eyebox I've seen better is from glass twice as expensive i.e. a Schmidt & Bender PMII Ultra Performance, ZCO, etc.
I'd take a MK5HD over a Zeiss S3 or S5, having compared them back-to-back at distance: the Leupold has better clarity, less color distortion, and puts less strain on your eyes. The only comparable scope in its class is a NF ATACR 7-35x that beats it on clarity and ruggedness, with the ATACR 5-25x having an odd distortion when compared to the same spec MK5HD. And the ATACR is almost a full $1000 more.
At under $2000 for MIL/LEO, the MK5HD is a fantastic scope for all that it does, with phenomenal light gathering and practically non-existent chromatic aberrations, even on max zoom while trying to engage 1200 yard IPSCs.
And the zero-stop system is the best I've ever used: the ease at which I can re-zero AND the zero-stop simultaneously in the field is phenomenal.
Both of my scopes track extremely consistently, turn after turn, having done multiple tests checking both. Further, I've seen these scopes take blows in muddy, rainy sniper competitions first hand, scuffed and banged up, and still perform without a hitch.
So if your bias is from using a Leupold M3 on a M24 from two decades ago (or more), or you are just parroting what others are saying to sound trendy? Put your money where your mouth is: post what you can do with your "cheap" scope, or shut up. The mouth-breathing keyboard warrior banter is exhausting.
Bitch - ass mother******* flier tried to ruin my winning streak...
I really have no quarrel with your Leupold scope and don't know what this is all about...
But I'll play, here's my cheap rifle / scope combo.
One of my Tikka T3x Lites, can't remember if it was in 6.5mm Creedmoor or .308 Winchester, with one of my older SWFA SS scopes, might have been a fixed 6x or a 10x.
Single - feeding, as hearing the brass scrape against those tin can magazines is like scratching chalk the wrong way on the board for me (those of you who actually know what this is about, I think there's a proper word for it).
I sometimes post 200 yard groups actually shot at 25 yards, just to irritate people, for fun
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My eyes love the .1 MRAD thick MK5 Illuminated TMR reticle.
If other options in this reticle thickness were available I might go exploring, but there aren’t any, and my Leupold doesn’t hold my performance back at all.
Plus, I don’t have to send it overseas to be serviced should something go awry.
-Stan
I talk shit about the MK5 because I had one for 3 months and sold it. Fastest I have ever got rid of a scope. I actually was wanting to buy another for one of my MK12s. Looking through several others recently, I was reminded of why I sold it in the first place. The FOV is quiet small, not a fan of the reticles they offer, glass quality is just average at best. No clue where they got their HD glass from. Even the new MK5 HD I looked through last week had a lot of CA, even more then I remembered when I had mine. I don't hate Leupold I have 4 of their other scopes on other rifles, but the MK5 is just not good. I would say, aesthetically, they are a very good looking scope on most builds. At least they got that right.
I have one, I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. That said, for the money, they are pretty good optics. It's hard for me to complain about its shortcomings at the price point I paid for it. All of those issues could be remedied if I had spent another $1500+ for a ZCO or TT, but I didn't, and I am okay with that.
I consider the Mk5 to be very much in the same ballpark as the XTR Pro. They are both very serviceable, and you don't loose much optical performance to true "Alpha" glass...but you can also tell that it isn't on the same level.
Add in the parts of turret clicks that aren't quite as tactile etc... and the reality is that you have a great optic in the $1,500 - 2,000 range... but it isn't competitive in pure performance with the next tier up. Does that make a difference in daylight shooting? Nope. But is it going to bug you if you're a stickler for the finer things? Yep. Let's face it, this is the AI thread...where most guys are willing to pay twice the amount for a 10% improvement.
As far a 100 meter 10 shot groups, I don't have any on camera. But I do have (2) consecutive 10 shot groups at 300. This isn't even the preferred load for this barrel, but it shoots it decently. Me...we'll, I'm no pro.
Skip to 1:50 and 8:45 for the shooting sequences.
Add in the parts of turret clicks that aren't quite as tactile etc... and the reality is that you have a great optic in the $1,500 - 2,000 range... but it isn't competitive in pure performance with the next tier up. Does that make a difference in daylight shooting? Nope. But is it going to bug you if you're a stickler for the finer things? Yep. Let's face it, this is the AI thread...where most guys are willing to pay twice the amount for a 10% improvement.
As far a 100 meter 10 shot groups, I don't have any on camera. But I do have (2) consecutive 10 shot groups at 300. This isn't even the preferred load for this barrel, but it shoots it decently. Me...we'll, I'm no pro.
Skip to 1:50 and 8:45 for the shooting sequences.
It’s a decent $1700 scope, but it’s blown away by a $1900 Theos.
The MK5HD is the newest addition to my scope collection, but yeah, it’s definitely a level down from a lot of the glass I have here.
The MK5HD is the newest addition to my scope collection, but yeah, it’s definitely a level down from a lot of the glass I have here.
Dude awesome shooting!
Not to burst your bubble but we haven't used Crucible steel since late 2009. You can thank Obama for that!
I'll see your #strapons, and raise you two dedicated thermals on dedicated thermal rigs.
I'll see your #strapons, and raise you two dedicated thermals on dedicated thermal rigs.
Come at me brah
Use that to cut your hair
is that your channel?I'll see your #strapons, and raise you two dedicated thermals on dedicated thermal rigs.
View attachment 8686960
View attachment 8686961
I really have no quarrel with your Leupold scope and don't know what this is all about...
But I'll play, here's my cheap rifle / scope combo.
One of my Tikka T3x Lites, can't remember if it was in 6.5mm Creedmoor or .308 Winchester, with one of my older SWFA SS scopes, might have been a fixed 6x or a 10x.
Single - feeding, as hearing the brass scrape against those tin can magazines is like scratching chalk the wrong way on the board for me (those of you who actually know what this is about, I think there's a proper word for it).
I sometimes post 200 yard groups actually shot at 25 yards, just to irritate people, for fun
Fantastic f×ckin' shooting dude.
At least you can put your money where your mouth is.
Tried to mount a Leupold on my AWs. They fell off all the time and the AW suffered from diarrhea and skin exanthems.
After mounting a S&B, everything was gone. Seems some kind of allergy...shitty optics allergy
After mounting a S&B, everything was gone. Seems some kind of allergy...shitty optics allergy
I, too, breathe this rarified HISS-AIRRRRR that Burt and Dogtown so deeply inhale.
Behold
Let thine eye linger, verily.
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If your question is in regards to the fat guy who rambles a lot and puts together 3rd grade-level editing...yes.
If it is regards to strap-ons...I'll have to defer to @BurtG
I like my Nightforce and you’ll never convince me otherwise. I’ve looked through the ZCO and TT and just don’t see the price difference. 
Eh, if I didn’t have a TT I’d run a NF. The ATACR 7-35 isn’t the best at any one thing, but it is very good at everything.
The only Leupolds that appeal to me are the 2-10 with CMR and 3.6-18 with PR2, but that is just for weight and SPR/DMR reasons.
Having said that, this comes from a guy that has pretty much owned everything but a ZCO & Hensdolt. I have owned S&B, Kahles, Steiner, Vortex, TT, NF, Minox, and Leupold.
The only Leupolds that appeal to me are the 2-10 with CMR and 3.6-18 with PR2, but that is just for weight and SPR/DMR reasons.
Having said that, this comes from a guy that has pretty much owned everything but a ZCO & Hensdolt. I have owned S&B, Kahles, Steiner, Vortex, TT, NF, Minox, and Leupold.
I like the Mk5 HD 3.6-18x as well for a small frame gasser. It's hard to beat for the money in that use case. You really should try a ZCO. I've owned a few NF over the years, still have one in the safe, but I don't find them much better than a Leupy, same class IMHO. I have never tried the 7-35x, I need to get behind one of those.
I have an ATACR 7-35, and a G3 Razor...and they are extremely close.
If I purchased again, it would be based on price as performance is nearly identical.
ETA: I know nothing about ZCO or TT... but until I'm limiting my performance by my two options above, I doubt I'll ever shell out for one either.
And I already know that I'm limited by my crappy skills...so there's never going to be a need for upgrading.
If I purchased again, it would be based on price as performance is nearly identical.
ETA: I know nothing about ZCO or TT... but until I'm limiting my performance by my two options above, I doubt I'll ever shell out for one either.
And I already know that I'm limited by my crappy skills...so there's never going to be a need for upgrading.
"My .03 to .05 MRAD thick reticle scope with .2 MRAD hash marks and a center aiming dot is better than your .03 to .05 MRAD thick reticle scope with .2 MRAD hash marks and a center aiming dot." -Sniper's Hide
-Stan
-Stan
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