Best Sub $750 optic for target and varmint - 2025

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

Another one of these threads sorry in advance. I am looking for a scope that is around the 5-25 power. Sub $750. I want at least 5 on the low end 25 on the max. FFP IR MIL, 34mm tube. This gun will sit on a varmint and target trainer rifle. I will also use it for 600 yard PRS matches. The gun is chambered in 223 with a throat and magazine that can accommodate heavy for caliber high bc bullets that the 22 arc would launch. My goal is to shoot varmint out to 600 yards. So my need on the clarity side is at 25 power I want to be able to see coyotes/dogs etc. at 600 yards.

I have looked at the following and am having trouble because I cannot look through them all side by side. Main contenders are strike eagle 5-25x56, Arken EP5 5-25 and the Gen 2 Athlon Ares ETR 4.5-30. I've never owned athlon or looked through one. The reticle seems good but I've read they have some tunneling. I really like on the strike eagles how the eyebox has almost no tunneling the body just disappears. The arken reticle and ir is actually preferred, I have found in low light fully illuminated reticles really block your vision. The strike eagles ilum is too much and not useful for low light. So in summary arken has preferred reticle as it's kind of hybrid target and hunting, strike eagle for the thin eyebox effect and athlon ares I have no experience and I hear lots of hyperbole on glass quality which I no longer believe what I read on the Internet lol. My thought is the glass on all three should be relatively close but you have people saying arken is just as good as night force atacr, same thing with ares oddly enough there are hyperbolic reviews of the strike eagle as well as a lot of people call them pieces of shit lol. Your insight and expertise is greatly appreciated...

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Something from Vortex or Athlon. IF/when it shits the bed, they will take care of you.

You aren't getting good glass for under 2K, so be sure to manage expectations.

Check that, you can get good glass (vortex LHT) but the other features will be lacking (eyebox, turrets, build quality). Maybe a Ziess S3 or something. But you will need to more than double your budget.

Anyone saying Arken is as good as NF or anything else in that price tier is either A. Paid shill or B. Fucking Retard.

You get what you pay for in glass. Its the LAST thing you should cheap out on. But 25 years later explaining this to people on this site and it still needs to be explained.

 

[BobinNC]

Something from Vortex or Athlon. IF/when it shits the bed, they will take care of you.

You aren't getting good glass for under 2K, so be sure to manage expectations.

Check that, you can get good glass (vortex LHT) but the other features will be lacking (eyebox, turrets, build quality). Maybe a Ziess S3 or something. But you will need to more than double your budget.

Anyone saying Arken is as good as NF or anything else in that price tier is either A. Paid shill or B. Fucking Retard.

You get what you pay for in glass. Its the LAST thing you should cheap out on. But 25 years later explaining this to people on this site and it still needs to be explained.

That's because "glass" is the most overrated item in the optics spectrum when it comes to rifle scopes. Your scopes mission is not to read news papers at 500 + yds. It's to put rounds on targets. In most cases if you can see your target thru the scope glass, you can hit it, as long as your adjustments are true, you can read the wind, know your loads dope, practice at range, manage mirage, establish good trigger control and have a good rest.

Notice in most of the cases that a civvy finds themselves in, none of the above have anything to do with "glass quality".

And yes, you do get what you pay for in optics, but "glass quality" is only one of many bennies you get when spending more $ on a scope. And by far one of lessor importance, compared to build quality, service after purchase, good reticle design, and robust & repeatable adjustments, just to name a few.

Just a minor example: Athlon Helos 2-12x42mm costs less than $500. Leupold's Mark 5HD 2-10x30 with illumination cost $2500.

I've shot side by side other shooters with my little Helos and their "better" Leupold and their better "glass quality" in the Leupy meant exactly ziltch.

Now as we go up in scope power, say from 20x and up, glass quality or lack thereof really shows up in overall clarity and light transmission. Yet those very high scope powers in use are often negated by mirage, rendering them near useless often.

None of this is to say don't spend big money on rifle optics, but rather consider all elements in your proposed optics package, of which "glass quality" is just one of many elements that rounds out a rifle scope.

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

Something from Vortex or Athlon. IF/when it shits the bed, they will take care of you.

You aren't getting good glass for under 2K, so be sure to manage expectations.

Check that, you can get good glass (vortex LHT) but the other features will be lacking (eyebox, turrets, build quality). Maybe a Ziess S3 or something. But you will need to more than double your budget.

Anyone saying Arken is as good as NF or anything else in that price tier is either A. Paid shill or B. Fucking Retard.

You get what you pay for in glass. Its the LAST thing you should cheap out on. But 25 years later explaining this to people on this site and it still needs to be explained.

I could be persuaded to spend more than $750. However it would be hard to justify an $1800 for a scope. I have an allowance each year of $6000 for everything I buy whether it be hiking boots, scopes, guns, ammo so if I want to get out and shoot I need to leave room for ammo in all of this. I do reload and buy powder by the jug. This one one of the reasons I built the 223 rifle is to get more range time.

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

That's because "glass" is the most overrated item in the optics spectrum when it comes to rifle scopes. Your scopes mission is not to read news papers at 500 + yds. It's to put rounds on targets. In most cases if you can see your target thru the scope glass, you can hit, as long as your adjustments are true, you can read the wind, know your loads dope, practice at range, manage mirage, establish good trigger control and have a good rest.

Notice in most of the cases that a civvy finds themselves in, none of the above have anything to do with "glass quality".

And yes, you do get what you pay for in optics, but "glass quality" is only one of many bennies you get when spending more $ on a scope. And by far one of lessor importance, compared to build quality, service after purchase, good reticle design, and robust & repeatable adjustments, just to name a few.

Just a minor example: Athlon Helos 2-12x42mm costs less than $500. Leupold's Mark 5HD 2-10x30 with illumination cost $2500.

I've shot side by side other shooters with my little Helos and their "better" Leupold and their better "glass quality" in the Leupy meant exactly ziltch.

Now as we go up in scope power, say from 20x and up, glass quality or lack thereof really shows up in overall clarity and light transmission. Yet those very high scope powers in use are often negated by mirage, rendering them near useless often.

None of this is to say don't spend big money on rifle optics, but rather consider all elements in your proposed optics package, of which "glass quality" is just one of many elements that rounds out a rifle scope.

I totally agree. I do a lot of target practice as well as positional shooting in PRS and 22 PRS. I have used a venom and it works great on high conteast targets and has tracked well for me. At 25x at 600 yards a prairie dog is a smudge and spotting impacts is just about impossible with the venom. It also gives me a headache lol.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

There is always onlyfans.

 

[Simonsza1]

Do people actually say arken is as good as nightforce? That’s one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever heard.

 

[steve101610]

I would save more and get into the $1500-2000 range. I bought an arken ep5 to see what all the hype was about and it’s just hype. It does what any other $600 scope will do and nothing more. People that glorify the arkens are either paid for it or just don’t know any better. If you set your budget at $750 you’re just going to be disappointed and eventually spend more later to upgrade so you might as well buy once and be happy.

 

[Simonsza1]

If your budget is firm then buy a $500 used strike eagle in the px and roll with it. It’s probably the best of that bunch and the warranty is easy peasy if something goes wrong. Arken customer service sucks big fat ones.

 

[carbonbased]

At 25x at 600 yards a prairie dog is a smudge and spotting impacts is just about impossible with the venom.

Out on public land in ND, pdog shooting is often at 300-450yds. Sometimes 200yds. It’s because the towns on public land are routinely shot at. I’ve found some towns off the beaten path that I can actually stalk the critters with a suppressed 22LR. That’s fun!

Anyway, I use a Razor G2 4.5-27 on my main 204 rifle shooting the 40gr vmax factory Hornady ammo, and a 500yd shot is very iffy with that setup (2.0 mil horizontal correction, 15mph left—>right wind). It’s going to be basically the same correction with the 223 77gr TMK. And you’re not even at 600yds yet. A pdog is a bit smudgy at 500 with the Razor (edit: midday on a hot day)…at 600? Lol.

I’ve done a 510yd shot once, but had to walk it in. Maybe 6-7 shots. I could see the impacts on the dusty ground, but the mirage is tough at 27x on a hot day. 600 yds? Better attempt early in the morning when the mirage is largely absent.

The Vortex PST II 5-25 is a good scope. Not as good as the Razor G2, but it’s decent. Can’t directly compare it to your other Chinese choices as I’ve never shot them. But I’ve used it out to 300yds on a 17 Hornet with no problem, and for kicks, even attempted 450yds. I could see fine. Didn’t hit the target as 17 Hornet blows all over and really is out of gas at 300. But 600? Not sure how well the view will look.

The DNT 7-35 has people like it when it’s sunny out; not so much in challenging conditions (low light, overcast/low contrast, etc). Not sure how it handles mirage. Nice holdover reticle. Edit: it’s under $750. Or at least it was before tariffs at Cameraland.

Viper HD is the replacement/upgrade. But the PST can be had for $650 new at Midway. The 2D reticle was a special run done and it’s awesome. Similar to the 2C, and offers a clear view for varmint shooting.

Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen 2 Rifle Scope 5-25x 50mm EBR-2D MRAD

The Vortex Viper PST Gen II hands an unfair advantage to shooters who seek to keep the upper hand in every situation from close quarters to long-range...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Jojo417]

Out of your options listed, the gen 2 ares smokes them. The glass is better, the controls are better, and Athlon has a killer warranty.

I also have one posted for sale in the classified section.

 

[Agracer]

CDOES rates the Bushnell Match Pro ED every bit as good ad the $500 more Vortex PDS G2. I have one, and it's very good out 500yards.

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

Out on public land in ND, pdog shooting is often at 300-450yds. Sometimes 200yds. It’s because the towns on public land are routinely shot at. I’ve found some towns off the beaten path that I can actually stalk the critters with a suppressed 22LR. That’s fun!

Anyway, I use a Razor G2 4.5-27 on my main 204 rifle shooting the 40gr vmax factory Hornady ammo, and a 500yd shot is very iffy with that setup (2.0 mil horizontal correction, 15mph left—>right wind). It’s going to be basically the same correction with the 223 77gr TMK. And you’re not even at 600yds yet. A pdog is a bit smudgy at 500 with the Razor (edit: midday on a hot day)…at 600? Lol.

I’ve done a 510yd shot once, but had to walk it in. Maybe 6-7 shots. I could see the impacts on the dusty ground, but the mirage is tough at 27x on a hot day. 600 yds? Better attempt early in the morning when the mirage is largely absent.

The Vortex PST II 5-25 is a good scope. Not as good as the Razor G2, but it’s decent. Can’t directly compare it to your other Chinese choices as I’ve never shot them. But I’ve used it out to 300yds on a 17 Hornet with no problem, and for kicks, even attempted 450yds. I could see fine. Didn’t hit the target as 17 Hornet blows all over and really is out of gas at 300. But 600? Not sure how well the view will look.

The DNT 7-35 has people like it when it’s sunny out; not so much in challenging conditions (low light, overcast/low contrast, etc). Not sure how it handles mirage. Nice holdover reticle. Edit: it’s under $750. Or at least it was before tariffs at Cameraland.

Viper HD is the replacement/upgrade. But the PST can be had for $650 new at Midway. The 2D reticle was a special run done and it’s awesome. Similar to the 2C, and offers a clear view for varmint shooting.

Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen 2 Rifle Scope 5-25x 50mm EBR-2D MRAD

The Vortex Viper PST Gen II hands an unfair advantage to shooters who seek to keep the upper hand in every situation from close quarters to long-range...

www.midwayusa.com

I don't have experience with amazing glass. This is very helpful. Maybe I cannot buy my way into seeing dogs at 600. I do fully understand the limitations of .224 bullets at 600 yards in wind. I will be loading higher bc bullets similar to 6mm bcs going slow. Most of the varmints I'll be shooting are at 2-400 yards. Even with a 6.5 creed prairie dogs at 600 was usually 5+ shots but it's more for the fun of it.

 

[hafejd30]

I had the Arken EP5. I put it next to my NF ATACR 7-35. In low light it wasn’t even close

I upgraded to the DNT 7-35 and like it much more than the Arken. Otherwise an Athlon is a good optic. You can find Cronus for a few hundred more than your budget in the used market. Otherwise the Ares ETR is cheaper in the used market as well.

The Cronus is made in Japan and I’d compare the ones I had to my NF. The others are made in China and still decent optics.

 

[TahoeDust]

I would look for a used Vortex Strike Eagle. I have a couple and they are good for the price. The warranty transfers and is as good as it gets.

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

I had the Arken EP5. I put it next to my NF ATACR 7-35. In low light it wasn’t even close

I upgraded to the DNT 7-35 and like it much more than the Arken. Otherwise an Athlon is a good optic. You can find Cronus for a few hundred more than your budget in the used market. Otherwise the Ares ETR is cheaper in the used market as well.

The Cronus is made in Japan and I’d compare the ones I had to my NF. The others are made in China and still decent optics.

Do you think the Gen 2 Midas tac would have similar glass and functionality as the ares etr? I'm able to get one new for $463. I saw in other threads the Midas tac and Ares had the same glass.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Not sure why you're looking at a Midas TAC (30mm tube, 1:4 magnification ratio) when you specified 34mm tube and 5-25x (1:5 ratio) and you have a $750+ budget.

I and a couple of my match buddies have compared the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25x56 to one of my gen-3 Razor 6-36x56, my ZCO 527, and a couple of other brands side by side, and the SE was pretty danged good for a $700 scope (EuroOptic's current price with usual discount plus another 12% taken off at checkout with the code provided). I recently bought the SE 3-18x44 to stick on an AR, and I'm quite happy with it.

Additionally, Vortex scopes ship with a sunshade and throw lever; many competitors at that price point don't. I'll also say the SE's zero stop approach is pretty clever.

Make sure you buy decent rings for your scope. At minimum, I suggest Vortex Pro rings, available at Bass Pro for $80 - I don't know why EuroOptic isn't showing them; I bought a set to use with my new SE. I use the higher-grade Vortex PMR rings (~$160) for my competition rifles. For bolt guns, I suggest 1.26" height. I got 1.5" rings for my AR; 1.5" is a minimum for that platform for the vast majority of people (and if I had it to do over again I'd probably buy a cantilever mount ONLY for the AR; I went with rings for optimal spacing flexibility).

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

Not sure why you're looking at a Midas TAC (30mm tube, 1:4 magnification ratio) when you specified 34mm tube and 5-25x (1:5 ratio) and you have a $750+ budget.

I and a couple of my match buddies have compared the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25x56 to one of my gen-3 Razor 6-36x56, my ZCO 527, and a couple of other brands side by side, and the SE was pretty danged good for a $700 scope (EuroOptic's current price with usual discount plus another 12% taken off at checkout with the code provided). I recently bought the SE 3-18x44 to stick on an AR, and I'm quite happy with it.

Additionally, Vortex scopes ship with a sunshade and throw lever; many competitors at that price point don't. I'll also say the SE's zero stop approach is pretty clever.

Make sure you buy decent rings for your scope. At minimum, I suggest Vortex Pro rings, available at Bass Pro for $80 - I don't know why EuroOptic isn't showing them; I bought a set to use with my new SE. I use the higher-grade Vortex PMR rings (~$160) for my competition rifles. For bolt guns, I suggest 1.26" height. I got 1.5" rings for my AR; 1.5" is a minimum for that platform for the vast majority of people (and if I had it to do over again I'd probably buy a cantilever mount ONLY for the AR; I went with rings for optimal spacing flexibility).

The Gen 2 Midas tack is 5-30 FFP IR MIL with 34mm tube. I already have seekins 34mm rings which are same as vortex PMR rings. I also have a diving board that I plan to mount a holosun rmr on for quick targeting.

Have you looked through the venom? That is what I currently have. A lot of people say it is not good glass. Is the strike eagle a lot sharper than that? I can go to the gun store and pick up the strike eagle but looking at it at the store is so much different than actually field testing it. What provoked a lot of this was looking through my buddies night force NX8 at 1000 yards. Realistically at 400 yards and in most budget scopes work great. Holy crap what a difference so much clearer at 1000 yards. I am hoping to close that gap. I have enough guns that as I upgrade these scopes will just sit on other guns... I can't afford to put nightforce and razors on every gun anyway...

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

I wish there was a place I could go look through all the glass so I could find the best value option. By me the only scopes in stores are vortex, Swarovski, and nightforce. I'm thinking about figuring out how to get to shot show next year.

 

[carbonbased]

I wish there was a place I could go look through all the glass so I could find the best value option. By me the only scopes in stores are vortex, Swarovski, and nightforce. I'm thinking about figuring out how to get to shot show next year.

I suggest to first narrow it down by reticles. Then, if you’re willing to fly to shot show, instead fly to Eurooptic or maybe Mile High. You’d have way more time to compare scopes side by side vs walking all over and relying on your memory to compare.

Perhaps those two retail outlets would even allow you look outside…vs at shot show you’d be looking inside a convention hall.

I know this sounds maybe elitist, but $750 isn’t much for a scope. Realize none of this stuff is an “investment”…it’s a hobby and you’re going to lose money but hopefully gain enjoyment and relaxation.

Try to just pick the first scope that meets your criteria vs having to try all of them (this is my weakness).

If I were you, buy from a place that allows free returns (but don’t abuse it, or you’ll lose it). Pick a reticle style and price and order the scope that you think will work for you the best.

Once you get it, get the gun on a tripod and ring bottoms affixed to the rail. Then don your (literal) white cotton gloves, place the scope in that now cotton-lined set of ring bottoms (no clamping or ring caps!!) and take a long gander.

Pro-tip: don’t look through your house windows to judge the scope. Found out that some windows are wavy, some impart haze, etc etc. At least in my older house with good Anderson windows, it’s a pane-by-pane variation, it’s weird. Open the window.

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

I suggest to first narrow it down by reticles. Then, if you’re willing to fly to shot show, instead fly to Eurooptic or maybe Mile High. You’d have way more time to compare scopes side by side vs walking all over and relying on your memory to compare.

Perhaps those two retail outlets would even allow you look outside…vs at shot show you’d be looking inside a convention hall.

I know this sounds maybe elitist, but $750 isn’t much for a scope. Realize none of this stuff is an “investment”…it’s a hobby and you’re going to lose money but hopefully gain enjoyment and relaxation.

Try to just pick the first scope that meets your criteria vs having to try all of them (this is my weakness).

If I were you, buy from a place that allows free returns (but don’t abuse it, or you’ll lose it). Pick a reticle style and price and order the scope that you think will work for you the best.

Once you get it, get the gun on a tripod and ring bottoms affixed to the rail. Then don your (literal) white cotton gloves, place the scope in that now cotton-lined set of ring bottoms (no clamping or ring caps!!) and take a long gander.

Pro-tip: don’t look through your house windows to judge the scope. Found out that some windows are wavy, some impart haze, etc etc. It’s a pane-by-pane variation, it’s weird. Open the window.

Thank you for the tips there is a europtic and a mile high in Denver it's a bit of a drive from me but that would be worth it. Put everything into. Context.

 

[carbonbased]

Maybe I cannot buy my way into seeing dogs at 600.

I think that in typical pdog shooting conditions (hot, windy, lots of mirage) maybe the only scope that’ll actually do some magic is the March 5-42 Gen 2. Spendy.

Apparently it has the same magic mirage-melting abilities as their SFP 8-80, only it’s FFP. It’s not like it eliminates mirage, I guess, but it reduces it a lot. And it’s got enough mag to significantly enlarge those bastard pdogs lol.

@Denys is our forum f-class expert and he says that 8-80 has become the scope for fclass winners.

Again, this is from Denys and not my first-hand experience.

Keep in mind dudes shoot pdogs at 600+ without a $4k riflescope. I think they rely heavily on a buddy manning a decent 60x+ spotting scope. Hope you own a LRF bino! They help a lot.

 

[Markbsae]

I have a pair of Vortex Viper PST Gen II's in 5-25x50 FFP. 30mm tube, IR and EBR-2C reticle so I can dial or use the reticle holds. My favorite thing is the zero stop as I'm not a fan of the shims. It's far from high dollar glass but it's the nicest i've ever owned. New one was $620 and the other just under $700. I've never got to even look through the top dollar ones like Night Force, gen 5 Leopold or even a Razor for that matter. The nicest I've ever used is a few rounds fired on a friends gun with a trijicon 6-24. For what I paid I'm happy with that model. They're discontinued but can still be found. The only Strike Eagle I have is a 1-6 and it does the job for sub $300. I still have several Nikon Monarch 3's as well but they left the market years ago. They still honor the warranty though.

 

[hafejd30]

Do you think the Gen 2 Midas tac would have similar glass and functionality as the ares etr? I'm able to get one new for $463. I saw in other threads the Midas tac and Ares had the same glass.

I haven’t looked through a Midas. Only the ETR and Cronus Gen 1/2

I’ve also owned several of the cheaper end Vortex like the HS and PST. Had to send the HS and one of the PST back for warranty for tracking and parallax failures.

With your budget I’d shop the for sale section here. You can typically see ETR for around your budget. Those Athlon Ares ETR are what I’d consider a “high end” Chinese made scope with a solid reputation

However you can also find a Gen 1 Cronus used for around $900 here as well. Which is what I’d choose

Decide on some features and reticles you like. Narrow it down to a few optics. Watch the px here. Buy used and if you decide it’s not for you then you’re not taking a huge hit. Those Cronus Gen II were about $1700 when new. Used here they typically were going around $1100

Here’s a recent sale thread just for reference. If you see this scope for these prices then it be a no brainer vs the others made in China or the Philippines

Optics - Sold****Price reduction****Athlon Cronus 4.5x29x56 mil Gen 2

As above, in excellent condition with very faint ring marks and a couple minor spots on bell and ocular, almost un noticeable. comes with box and paperwork. These retail for $1700, save tax and shipping, $965 TYD in the CONUS. Edit: APRS6 reticle *****I see Gratful Doug has them on sale for...

www.snipershide.com

 

[DownhillFromHere]

The Gen 2 Midas tack is 5-30 FFP IR MIL with 34mm tube. I already have seekins 34mm rings which are same as vortex PMR rings. I also have a diving board that I plan to mount a holosun rmr on for quick targeting.

Have you looked through the venom? That is what I currently have. A lot of people say it is not good glass. Is the strike eagle a lot sharper than that? I can go to the gun store and pick up the strike eagle but looking at it at the store is so much different than actually field testing it. What provoked a lot of this was looking through my buddies night force NX8 at 1000 yards. Realistically at 400 yards and in most budget scopes work great. Holy crap what a difference so much clearer at 1000 yards. I am hoping to close that gap. I have enough guns that as I upgrade these scopes will just sit on other guns... I can't afford to put nightforce and razors on every gun anyway...

My bad on the Midas TAC. I just googled it and looked at the first thing that came up. I've only messed with one of those, and it was several years ago. I thought it was decent then, but I was early along in my rifle journey and running Vortex Viper PSTs.

The main purpose of this longish post is to help you with some expectation management. The tl;dr is this:

• In benign lighting conditions, a name-brand $750 scope will likely work about as well as a $1500 optic.
• The more expensive scopes differentiate themselves optically in low light or high contrast conditions.
• In high mirage situations, any target more than a few hundred yards away will be fuzzy and dancing, and the most expensive scopes aren't going to make that much less of an issue.

-----------
No, I haven't looked through a Venom. The 5-25x56 Strike Eagle is the cheapest scope in that magnification range I've examined in years. As I said, my buddies and I compared the SE, gen-3 Razor 6-36x56, ZCO 527, and a couple of others. So, the SE was up against scopes costing ~$1500 to over $4000. We were on a covered firing line; conditions were fairly hot, clear sun, distance 540 yards. Heavy mirage. The SE held its own just fine.

In benign lighting conditions, you probably won't see a huge difference between a $750 scope and a $1500 scope, or between a $1500 scope and a $3000 scope.

Please understand: expensive optics differentiate themselves from lesser fare in challenging light conditions - low light or high contrast. The example I often site is a match stage where a 12" plate was up against a little dirt berm about 800 yards across a full-sun field. The berm was in the shade of a treeline - a very high contrast situation. With my gen-2 Razor 4.5-27x56 scope, I could not see the shot-up (gray) plate against the berm; all I could see was the yellow paint stripe on the fire hose from which the plate was hanging (so I aimed under the stripe). When I encountered that stage again after upgrading to my ZCO, I could see the plate. I can also see it with my gen-3 Razors.

At distance, the atmosphere is an imperfect external lens in itself, and you're looking through it with another set of lenses. If your external lens is smeared with grease, the best glass on the planet is not going to let you see clearly through it - and mirage is effectively "moving grease." On the 1000-yard range at my home club, an 30x18" IPSC plate at 1000 is a fuzzy cotton ball that floats and wiggles up/down/left/right over half a mil on full-sun days - and that's with my $4k ZCO.

On the 550 range in high mirage, it's easy enough to see hits on 6" plates with my 3-18x44 Strike Eagle - mainly because they move when hit. But if I want to do load development wherein I shoot at a "+" of 1" blue painter's tape on white cardboard at that distance... nope, that has to be done in low mirage conditions, because the "+" is fuzzy (at best) and dancing around otherwise, and it doesn't matter which scope I use.

Finally, I will tell you this from experience: no matter which scope you get, if you stay with the hobby you'll replace it. I went through almost a dozen scopes in the $500 through $2000 price ranges before settling on my three gen-3 6-36x56 Razors and lonesome ZCO 527 for my match rifles... and if the gen-3 Razor had come out before I bought the ZCO, the ZCO would not be ion my safe. You can get a LOT of quality for far less $$$ today than 10 years ago.

 

[db2000]

Out on public land in ND, pdog shooting is often at 300-450yds. Sometimes 200yds. It’s because the towns on public land are routinely shot at. I’ve found some towns off the beaten path that I can actually stalk the critters with a suppressed 22LR. That’s fun!

Anyway, I use a Razor G2 4.5-27 on my main 204 rifle shooting the 40gr vmax factory Hornady ammo, and a 500yd shot is very iffy with that setup (2.0 mil horizontal correction, 15mph left—>right wind). It’s going to be basically the same correction with the 223 77gr TMK. And you’re not even at 600yds yet. A pdog is a bit smudgy at 500 with the Razor (edit: midday on a hot day)…at 600? Lol.

I’ve done a 510yd shot once, but had to walk it in. Maybe 6-7 shots. I could see the impacts on the dusty ground, but the mirage is tough at 27x on a hot day. 600 yds? Better attempt early in the morning when the mirage is largely absent.

The Vortex PST II 5-25 is a good scope. Not as good as the Razor G2, but it’s decent. Can’t directly compare it to your other Chinese choices as I’ve never shot them. But I’ve used it out to 300yds on a 17 Hornet with no problem, and for kicks, even attempted 450yds. I could see fine. Didn’t hit the target as 17 Hornet blows all over and really is out of gas at 300. But 600? Not sure how well the view will look.

The DNT 7-35 has people like it when it’s sunny out; not so much in challenging conditions (low light, overcast/low contrast, etc). Not sure how it handles mirage. Nice holdover reticle. Edit: it’s under $750. Or at least it was before tariffs at Cameraland.

Viper HD is the replacement/upgrade. But the PST can be had for $650 new at Midway. The 2D reticle was a special run done and it’s awesome. Similar to the 2C, and offers a clear view for varmint shooting.

Vortex Optics Viper PST Gen 2 Rifle Scope 5-25x 50mm EBR-2D MRAD

The Vortex Viper PST Gen II hands an unfair advantage to shooters who seek to keep the upper hand in every situation from close quarters to long-range...

www.midwayusa.com

I’ve had no problems with about 5 or 6 DNT 7-35 in challenging conditions as long as I’m at 25x or below. 35x is only fair to ok in even bright conditions. Handles mirage the same as my XTRIII’s and Arken 5-25’s. Otherwise, as many have said DNT 735 is a great scope. I personally felt the EP5 5-25 was better than the strike eagle I had. Of course, we’ve been through this over and over. People see things differently through different glass. They handled a warranty claim for me within a couple weeks fwiw. I never had any problems with Arken handling warranties but would pick the DNT over it now.

 

[hafejd30]

I used the DNT warranty a few weeks ago. Super helpful

Mine was only the screws for the turrets. They may have swapped them now but the older hex heads stripped easily and despite the amount of bits and Allen wrenches I have I never could find one, including the one that comes with the scope, that fit correctly.

Stripped one out just trying to loosen from the factory

They sent a full set for turrets and zero stop with torx heads. Along with new throw lever and screws for that. Now I really like the scope and company. I plan to put another on my second B14R and would replace those screws as well if the scope I get doesn’t have them already. I would assume they just use the Torx nowadays

 

[DM1975]

I love the 5-25x Strike Eagle. I have a few gen1 PST’s an Athlon Ares BTR gen2 and a Leupold Mk3hd and the Strike Eagle is my favorite. Clear bright glass, big image, good features, tracks well, great reticle. Farthest I have used it out to is about 547 yards so far and it did well. It’s not alpha glass but it’s pretty good. I have not had any issues with the illumination being too much and have used it quite a few times.

 

[WeR0206]

Another one of these threads sorry in advance. I am looking for a scope that is around the 5-25 power. Sub $750. I want at least 5 on the low end 25 on the max. FFP IR MIL, 34mm tube. This gun will sit on a varmint and target trainer rifle. I will also use it for 600 yard PRS matches. The gun is chambered in 223 with a throat and magazine that can accommodate heavy for caliber high bc bullets that the 22 arc would launch. My goal is to shoot varmint out to 600 yards. So my need on the clarity side is at 25 power I want to be able to see coyotes/dogs etc. at 600 yards.

I have looked at the following and am having trouble because I cannot look through them all side by side. Main contenders are strike eagle 5-25x56, Arken EP5 5-25 and the Gen 2 Athlon Ares ETR 4.5-30. I've never owned athlon or looked through one. The reticle seems good but I've read they have some tunneling. I really like on the strike eagles how the eyebox has almost no tunneling the body just disappears. The arken reticle and ir is actually preferred, I have found in low light fully illuminated reticles really block your vision. The strike eagles ilum is too much and not useful for low light. So in summary arken has preferred reticle as it's kind of hybrid target and hunting, strike eagle for the thin eyebox effect and athlon ares I have no experience and I hear lots of hyperbole on glass quality which I no longer believe what I read on the Internet lol. My thought is the glass on all three should be relatively close but you have people saying arken is just as good as night force atacr, same thing with ares oddly enough there are hyperbolic reviews of the strike eagle as well as a lot of people call them pieces of shit lol. Your insight and expertise is greatly appreciated...

Im in a similar boat re: features (FFP IR MIL, less than 30oz, etc) and price point (<=$800) but my use case is glass for a 1K yd 6 arc gas gun. I don’t have preference re: 30 vs 34mm so here are the ones im considering (in no order) in case it helps with your search:

• 30mm:
  • Vortex Viper HD FFP (VMR-4) 5-25x50 (25oz) ($850)
  • Athlon Helos BTR GEN2 4-20×50 (# 214109) (27oz) (ares/tac lines have better glass)
  • Athlon Ares BTR GEN3 HD 4.5-27x50 (# 212017) (27oz) ($755)
  • Burris RT-25 5-25x56mm (not illuminated) (25oz) ($400)
  • New DNT 30mm scopes that aren’t released yet (3-18 or 5-25)
• 34mm:
  • Athlon Midas TAC Gen2 HD 5-30×56 (alt link) (# 213088) (30oz) ($585)
  • Burris XTR II 5-25x50 (# 201051) (32oz) ($550)

 

[hafejd30]

Im in a similar boat re: features (FFP IR MIL, less than 30oz, etc) and price point (<=$800) but my use case is glass for a 1K yd 6 arc gas gun. I don’t have preference re: 30 vs 34mm so here are the ones im considering (in no order) in case it helps with your search:

• 30mm:
  • Vortex Viper HD FFP (VMR-4) 5-25x50 (25oz) ($850)
  • Athlon Helos BTR GEN2 4-20×50 (# 214109) (27oz) (ares/tac lines have better glass)
  • Athlon Ares BTR GEN3 HD 4.5-27x50 (# 212017) (27oz) ($755)
  • Burris RT-25 5-25x56mm (not illuminated) (25oz) ($400)
• 34mm:
  • Athlon Midas TAC Gen2 HD 5-30×56 (alt link) (# 213088) (30oz) ($585)
  • Burris XTR II 5-25x50 (# 201051) (32oz) ($550)

Those XTRII are built like tanks. The 5-25 however really suffers on the upper end. The sweet spot for those is 3-15 or less. I’ve owned lots of the XTRII

 

[db2000]

Im in a similar boat re: features (FFP IR MIL, less than 30oz, etc) and price point (<=$800) but my use case is glass for a 1K yd 6 arc gas gun. I don’t have preference re: 30 vs 34mm so here are the ones im considering (in no order) in case it helps with your search:

• 30mm:
  • Vortex Viper HD FFP (VMR-4) 5-25x50 (25oz) ($850)
  • Athlon Helos BTR GEN2 4-20×50 (# 214109) (27oz) (ares/tac lines have better glass)
  • Athlon Ares BTR GEN3 HD 4.5-27x50 (# 212017) (27oz) ($755)
  • Burris RT-25 5-25x56mm (not illuminated) (25oz) ($400)
• 34mm:
  • Athlon Midas TAC Gen2 HD 5-30×56 (alt link) (# 213088) (30oz) ($585)
  • Burris XTR II 5-25x50 (# 201051) (32oz) ($550)

I really like the Helos line. Esp 4-20 and 2-12

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

My bad on the Midas TAC. I just googled it and looked at the first thing that came up. I've only messed with one of those, and it was several years ago. I thought it was decent then, but I was early along in my rifle journey and running Vortex Viper PSTs.

The main purpose of this longish post is to help you with some expectation management. The tl;dr is this:

• In benign lighting conditions, a name-brand $750 scope will likely work about as well as a $1500 optic.
• The more expensive scopes differentiate themselves optically in low light or high contrast conditions.
• In high mirage situations, any target more than a few hundred yards away will be fuzzy and dancing, and the most expensive scopes aren't going to make that much less of an issue.

-----------
No, I haven't looked through a Venom. The 5-25x56 Strike Eagle is the cheapest scope in that magnification range I've examined in years. As I said, my buddies and I compared the SE, gen-3 Razor 6-36x56, ZCO 527, and a couple of others. So, the SE was up against scopes costing ~$1500 to over $4000. We were on a covered firing line; conditions were fairly hot, clear sun, distance 540 yards. Heavy mirage. The SE held its own just fine.

In benign lighting conditions, you probably won't see a huge difference between a $750 scope and a $1500 scope, or between a $1500 scope and a $3000 scope.

Please understand: expensive optics differentiate themselves from lesser fare in challenging light conditions - low light or high contrast. The example I often site is a match stage where a 12" plate was up against a little dirt berm about 800 yards across a full-sun field. The berm was in the shade of a treeline - a very high contrast situation. With my gen-2 Razor 4.5-27x56 scope, I could not see the shot-up (gray) plate against the berm; all I could see was the yellow paint stripe on the fire hose from which the plate was hanging (so I aimed under the stripe). When I encountered that stage again after upgrading to my ZCO, I could see the plate. I can also see it with my gen-3 Razors.

At distance, the atmosphere is an imperfect external lens in itself, and you're looking through it with another set of lenses. If your external lens is smeared with grease, the best glass on the planet is not going to let you see clearly through it - and mirage is effectively "moving grease." On the 1000-yard range at my home club, an 30x18" IPSC plate at 1000 is a fuzzy cotton ball that floats and wiggles up/down/left/right over half a mil on full-sun days - and that's with my $4k ZCO.

On the 550 range in high mirage, it's easy enough to see hits on 6" plates with my 3-18x44 Strike Eagle - mainly because they move when hit. But if I want to do load development wherein I shoot at a "+" of 1" blue painter's tape on white cardboard at that distance... nope, that has to be done in low mirage conditions, because the "+" is fuzzy (at best) and dancing around otherwise, and it doesn't matter which scope I use.

Finally, I will tell you this from experience: no matter which scope you get, if you stay with the hobby you'll replace it. I went through almost a dozen scopes in the $500 through $2000 price ranges before settling on my three gen-3 6-36x56 Razors and lonesome ZCO 527 for my match rifles... and if the gen-3 Razor had come out before I bought the ZCO, the ZCO would not be ion my safe. You can get a LOT of quality for far less $$$ today than 10 years ago.

Thank you so much for this. Really cleared up a lot for me. I am now understanding concepts on glass selection much better. I think I can confidently say high dollar glass would not be good value for me based on the above at the moment. I'll probably get some later on. I'm also thinking on the mid tier Chinese stuff I should be focusing on features rather than glass. Ares gen 2 vs Strike Eagle vs Athlon should be a comparison of reticles, features and customer services rather than a comparison of glass... I am thinking in the China stuff glass will likely not vary drastically. I am usually shooting in favorable lighting. Middle of the day, no shade. I hear DNT will be adding 5-25, 3-18 and 2-12. I love the reticle in my 7-35 so hopefully they stay true to the features in the one and I can pick one of those up.

 

[WeR0206]

I really like the Helos line. Esp 4-20 and 2-12

Same here. If they weren’t back ordered everywhere id probably would have gone with the 4-20 (perfect mag range that im looking for) but they seem to be unobtamium at the moment.

 

[WeR0206]

The Gen 2 Midas tack is 5-30 FFP IR MIL with 34mm tube. I already have seekins 34mm rings which are same as vortex PMR rings. I also have a diving board that I plan to mount a holosun rmr on for quick targeting.

Have you looked through the venom? That is what I currently have. A lot of people say it is not good glass. Is the strike eagle a lot sharper than that? I can go to the gun store and pick up the strike eagle but looking at it at the store is so much different than actually field testing it. What provoked a lot of this was looking through my buddies night force NX8 at 1000 yards. Realistically at 400 yards and in most budget scopes work great. Holy crap what a difference so much clearer at 1000 yards. I am hoping to close that gap. I have enough guns that as I upgrade these scopes will just sit on other guns... I can't afford to put nightforce and razors on every gun anyway...

Ive scoured the internet (and started a dedicated thread here) and I cant seem to find anyone who has had eyes on the TAC Gen2 5-30. Really curious about it though. It should be comparable to the ares btr line as I think they both have the HD chinese glass (ares etr has UHD glass).

 

[roostercogburn98]

You aren't getting good glass for under 2K, so be sure to manage expectations.

At least tell the truth when you shit post

 

[Denys]

I think that in typical pdog shooting conditions (hot, windy, lots of mirage) maybe the only scope that’ll actually do some magic is the March 5-42 Gen 2. Spendy.

Apparently it has the same magic mirage-melting abilities as their SFP 8-80, only it’s FFP. It’s not like it eliminates mirage, I guess, but it reduces it a lot. And it’s got enough mag to significantly enlarge those bastard pdogs lol.

@Denys is our forum f-class expert and he says that 8-80 has become the scope for fclass winners.

Again, this is from Denys and not my first-hand experience.

Keep in mind dudes shoot pdogs at 600+ without a $4k riflescope. I think they rely heavily on a buddy manning a decent 60x+ spotting scope. Hope you own a LRF bino! They help a lot.

I like what you wrote, but I want to make some aspects very clear lest someone take umbrage. The March-FX 5-42X56 Gen 1 or Gen 2 has DEONS' High Master glass, which consist of a pair of Super ED glass as the objective doublet. The March-X 8-80X56 Majesta, has Majesta glass, which consists of the High Master glass aforementioned and with additional pixie dust to further retard the inevitable distortion brought on by mirage. Since its introduction 2+ years ago, the Majesta has earned a dispropotionate share of the top medals in F-Open competittion and the state, regional and national levels around the planet. With the Worlds coming up next year at Bisley, we will see how if those medlas are awarded to Majesta owners. This doesn't mean that other brands do not win medals, they do; but the Majesta has been tsking many of the top spots. We believe this is due to its unique FOV for an SFP, its high magnification and mirage retardation.

I would look at the review of the March-X 5-42X56 HM Gen 2 from @Shayne Ward here on this forum, in which he addresses the mirage handling of this optics.

 

[carbonbased]

I like what you wrote, but I want to make some aspects very clear lest someone take umbrage. The March-FX 5-42X56 Gen 1 or Gen 2 has DEONS' High Master glass, which consist of a pair of Super ED glass as the objective doublet. The March-X 8-80X56 Majesta, has Majesta glass, which consists of the High Master glass aforementioned and with additional pixie dust to further retard the inevitable distortion brought on by mirage. Since its introduction 2+ years ago, the Majesta has earned a dispropotionate share of the top medals in F-Open competittion and the state, regional and national levels around the planet. With the Worlds coming up next year at Bisley, we will see how if those medlas are awarded to Majesta owners. This doesn't mean that other brands do not win medals, they do; but the Majesta has been tsking many of the top spots. We believe this is due to its unique FOV for an SFP, its high magnification and mirage retardation.

I would look at the review of the March-X 5-42X56 HM Gen 2 from @Shayne Ward here on this forum, in which he addresses the mirage handling of this optics.

Ah, I did not remember that the 8-80 had extra pixie dust lol. Good to know. And of course, with mirage a TT or ZCO user (or similar) is going to have an easier time of it than a PST II user (for example), for sure.

Come to think about it, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a hardcore mirage (or flare) through-scope video test. That would be super cool.

 

[ironpony52]

Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50mm FFP Riflescope - EBR2C (MOA) Reticle​

also comes in MRAD
right now they are $449 marked down from $649, at LGS not sure if it other places are. I have one on a SIG Cross 6.5 and it works fine.
I also have the 4-16 version on a ATC Elite and am happy with it too

 

[Freedom Thirty-Five]

Ive scoured the internet (and started a dedicated thread here) and I cant seem to find anyone who has had eyes on the TAC Gen2 5-30. Really curious about it though. It should be comparable to the ares btr line as I think they both have the HD chinese glass (ares etr has UHD glass).

Based on athlon website the Midas tac says UHD.i emailed them to confirm awaiting a response. It looks like the ares is just nicer mechanicals and locking turrets. The ares has the wide flat turret while the new tac is more like a traditional PRS scope, taller narrower turret. For $400 cheaper seems like serious value to me.. comes with flip covers and throw lever, I think they are giving them away at that price. At the price of the ares it makes more sense just to get a Cronus on sale/used.