Silencer Central, if true Phuck them!
- Thread starter D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷
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I didn’t buy any because of the red tape required to bring ‘em back to the US, but I was a member of a couple gun clubs when stationed in Germany, and you were required to purchase a can when buying a hunting rifle over there.
Required for noise abatement, and hearing loss safety concerns… and while I don’t recall them as cheap as those in that link, they ran a lot less than 100 euro for really nice cans.
was is the US $ cost? don't know Euros. also,vs cost for same item here? US goods sent to EU must incur ship,tariff,taxes charges.
Silencer Central is getting their ass tore up all over Facebook.
Yep, and in what, 3, 4, 6 weeks, what are we going to do? Yep, still use their processing bc it’s easy and filing sucks.
So revenue projections will for a quarter or 2 will be impacted.
The treat of substitutes/alternatives is low. I doubt it makes any substantive impact to their 2026 revenue projections.
So revenue projections will for a quarter or 2 will be impacted.
The treat of substitutes/alternatives is low. I doubt it makes any substantive impact to their 2026 revenue projections.
I'm a lawyer (sorry). I am pretty sensitive to weaseling and BS in general. Silencer Central's response is not credible to me, although that doesn't prove they're trying to fool us. It could, just barely conceivably, mean they are inept at PR.
If I had to guess, I would guess that they're trying to fool us. Now that the shocking lobbyist form is out, the burden of proof is on them, and they haven't carried it.
If I ran Silencer Central AND I were in favor of removing the ban (my loose term for it), I would say this in my public response to this scandal: "Silencer Central is 100% in favor of removing silencers from the NFA and federal background check requirements, period."
Then I would make some effort to explain what "develop and support suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation" means. To me, the plain meaning of "conserving tax stamp legislation" is "keeping silencers in the NFA." Like Al Capone lobbying to keep prohibition.
Why didn't they say something like I would have said? They could have. They're not stupid. Anyone who has dealt with them knows they are very sharp, capable guys.
My guess, which is only a guess, is that they lobbied to keep silencers in the NFA and didn't think they would be caught.
If I were trying to get rid of silencer regulation, and I had to fill out the lobbyist form, I would say, "support deregulation of silencers, including removal of silencers from the National Firearms Act and the abolishment of all federal background check requirements." I would never in a million years write "develop and support suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation".
Their claim that they want to "crawl" before they "run" is somewhat ridiculous. It only makes sense with regard to laws that can be approached incrementally, like the now-nonexistent Constitutional right to abortion. Abortion is complicated. People fought over the trimester system. They fought over rape and incest and so on. It was possible to allow or prohibit a whole bunch of things separately. Silencers are not like that. There are three very simple issues: background checks, taxes, and the federal registry.
Their claim that they would sell more silencers without regulation also sounds like deception. Right now, they can charge $1600 for a stamp, processing, and a little can that probably cost them $75 to make. Other companies don't want to get involved because of the hassle, so competition is very limited. If you could walk into Ace Hardware and buy a silencer without an ID, which is how things should be, it's safe to say we would be paying a hundred bucks for the very best silencers, if that. The Chinese would probably be shipping pretty good ones here for $20. It would absolutely wipe out the huge markups silencer companies charge.
If you can sell one silencer and make a grand, do you really want to make and sell a hundred of them in order to make the same profit, with countless competitors trying to undercut you?
Silencers are cheap to make, as the link to the French site proves. Titanium isn't gold. You can buy a titanium cutting board for $100. CNC businesses are not hard to start, and machining silencer parts is very simple. I am a hack machinist, and I could make one easily.
As for the whores in Congress, offering to remove the tax without removing the registry requirement and the NFA background requirement is insulting. No one cares much about the tax. We care about waiting a year, being on a federal registry, and the possibility of being charged with a crime for making a silly technical error such as lending a silencer to a family member. The hassle and the criminal liability are the issues, and Congressmen know that.
Bottom line: I will be surprised if I learn that Silencer Central hasn't been working to keep silencers regulated. Maybe it will happen, but I'll bet it doesn't.
If I had to guess, I would guess that they're trying to fool us. Now that the shocking lobbyist form is out, the burden of proof is on them, and they haven't carried it.
If I ran Silencer Central AND I were in favor of removing the ban (my loose term for it), I would say this in my public response to this scandal: "Silencer Central is 100% in favor of removing silencers from the NFA and federal background check requirements, period."
Then I would make some effort to explain what "develop and support suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation" means. To me, the plain meaning of "conserving tax stamp legislation" is "keeping silencers in the NFA." Like Al Capone lobbying to keep prohibition.
Why didn't they say something like I would have said? They could have. They're not stupid. Anyone who has dealt with them knows they are very sharp, capable guys.
My guess, which is only a guess, is that they lobbied to keep silencers in the NFA and didn't think they would be caught.
If I were trying to get rid of silencer regulation, and I had to fill out the lobbyist form, I would say, "support deregulation of silencers, including removal of silencers from the National Firearms Act and the abolishment of all federal background check requirements." I would never in a million years write "develop and support suppressor tax stamp conservation legislation".
Their claim that they want to "crawl" before they "run" is somewhat ridiculous. It only makes sense with regard to laws that can be approached incrementally, like the now-nonexistent Constitutional right to abortion. Abortion is complicated. People fought over the trimester system. They fought over rape and incest and so on. It was possible to allow or prohibit a whole bunch of things separately. Silencers are not like that. There are three very simple issues: background checks, taxes, and the federal registry.
Their claim that they would sell more silencers without regulation also sounds like deception. Right now, they can charge $1600 for a stamp, processing, and a little can that probably cost them $75 to make. Other companies don't want to get involved because of the hassle, so competition is very limited. If you could walk into Ace Hardware and buy a silencer without an ID, which is how things should be, it's safe to say we would be paying a hundred bucks for the very best silencers, if that. The Chinese would probably be shipping pretty good ones here for $20. It would absolutely wipe out the huge markups silencer companies charge.
If you can sell one silencer and make a grand, do you really want to make and sell a hundred of them in order to make the same profit, with countless competitors trying to undercut you?
Silencers are cheap to make, as the link to the French site proves. Titanium isn't gold. You can buy a titanium cutting board for $100. CNC businesses are not hard to start, and machining silencer parts is very simple. I am a hack machinist, and I could make one easily.
As for the whores in Congress, offering to remove the tax without removing the registry requirement and the NFA background requirement is insulting. No one cares much about the tax. We care about waiting a year, being on a federal registry, and the possibility of being charged with a crime for making a silly technical error such as lending a silencer to a family member. The hassle and the criminal liability are the issues, and Congressmen know that.
Bottom line: I will be surprised if I learn that Silencer Central hasn't been working to keep silencers regulated. Maybe it will happen, but I'll bet it doesn't.
they are known to practice shooting dogs,which they have gotten good at. do they shoot cats too?
I have 3 LGS that sell suppressors and do all the paperwork including digital fingerprints right in the store. About an hour and everything is done.
If this passes silencer central is done, period.
Silencer Central’s business model is to ship suppressors directly to the buyer’s front door. This option is available for NFA items, but not for Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) items. They also make the Banish line of suppressors. If suppressors were removed from the NFA, they would likely be reclassified under the Gun Control Act (GCA), which does not allow direct-to-consumer shipping for such items. This would impact Silencer Central’s current business model, which is built around direct home delivery in 42 states.
If this passes silencer central is done, period.
Silencer Central’s business model is to ship suppressors directly to the buyer’s front door. This option is available for NFA items, but not for Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) items. They also make the Banish line of suppressors. If suppressors were removed from the NFA, they would likely be reclassified under the Gun Control Act (GCA), which does not allow direct-to-consumer shipping for such items. This would impact Silencer Central’s current business model, which is built around direct home delivery in 42 states.
Ordering one for the ex wife.
They're in the business of furthering their own interests and gate keeping the sot sales.
Kinda like a majority of large gun manufacturers donate to Democratic campaigns, they win, fear sells guns.
Think about the complexity of a simple bolt action rifle, then think about a few baffles welded together.
They're expensive because they're low volume production. They're not really interested in high volume, or so I'd assume considering 50% of the inventory on silencer shop is on backorder on any given day.
There's very little real variation on cans. They are almost all clipped k-baffle variations. Sure, there's some crazy 3d printed ones coming out. Those are not the majority of manufacturers top selling items.
As far as "specific gun usage" that's all marketing bs. Pick a weight and quality level you're willing to pay for and anything in that price range will be comparable.
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You as a hack machinist can copy any of these? This is the tech from 12 years ago. Good luck.
Have you cut anything other than brass steel or aluminum? If not you don't know what you are talking about.
Also some recent comparisons.
6061 aluminum selling for $2.20-4.50/ pound. 7075 $4-7/ pound.
Titanium 6al4v $10-30/ pound.
Inconel $20-80/ pound
Remember 90+% will be turned into chips. You still have to have enough to chuck on, can't really nest parts so that adds for each piece.
More for everybody else.
As to those French cans, most at the beginning are only rated for 22lr only and made out of 2014 or 2024 aluminum (equivalent of duraluminum that they claim).
The browning one (still for 22lr) is $106 and made of aluminum with stainless thread.
Ase eco is $134. Still aluminum, still 22lr.
Ase sl7i 30 cal non magnum at $660 is cast and welded black steel and 300 series stainless. 20oz and 6.3" long, 1.75" Dia and does 30db only.
Sl8i 300blk, $938. 29-31 dba subsonic, 18-24 dba super sonic. Black steel and 300 stainless. 19.2 Oz, 7.8" long, 1.7" dia
Good luck cleaning most of them.
Comparisons from silencershop (some out of stock)
Silencer Co warlock. 22lr aluminum. $199. How much did they pay in taxes already?
Gemtech tracker. Titanium aluminum, 30 cal. $470.
Ocl polonium. 17-4, 30 cal. $532.
There are 12 30 cal cans cheaper than the sl7i, and 55 that they list cheaper than the sl8i.
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RRA and Springfield armory did this:
"As you probably know, the lobbying arm of Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms recently cut a deal with Illinois Senator Don Harmon to exclude the gunmakers from a licensing scheme. As a result, SB 1657 passed the Illinois State Senate and is headed to the House. It’s a horrible bill that includes onerous licensing for FFL’s and a nine transfer limit for Land of Lincoln gun owners."
When word got out, they both then lobbied the House to defeat the bill. The fact though that they gave a lot of money to anti-gun democrats pissed off a lot of gun owners in Illinois. They then claimed their lobbiest went rogue.
Here is a link to one of the articles written about it.
Downside to those is they can't handle the pressure. The guts of those will blow up and out and all of that paper inside can get sucked down in your action on anything semi auto. I've seen an AK get completely stopped because of that.
Completely incorrect on so many levels, but you do you.
If those baffles are not lined up correctly, and especially if the end is out of parallel with the shoulder of the barrel your 1/2" rifle becomes not anywhere near that with the can on it, and your poi shift will be massive, possibly in the feet or more.
Low back pressure cans are definitely a thing for sure, and that ain't marketing.
Then you are also talking about materials that can get repeatedly heated up past 1,500+ degrees and still remain structurally sound under massive amounts of pressure while under extreme heat.
There is all types of technology and innovation in the suppressor space but of course you're more than welcome to ignore all of it.
S/C has always been a James Comey type. Much like many,... Here,... if you can read between the lines. The amount of back stabbing on this rock over greed & power grows more & more everyday.
First thing I thought of when I saw this thread...The Lobbyist group they claimed went rogue comprised of the Pres and VP of the companies. So, they claim they went rogue on themselves...
What exactly is your objection and what are you complaining about here?
There’s a thousand on line gun stores all making money, selling non-NFA firearms and shipping them to brick and mortar stores every day. If Silencer Shop Central’s business is so fragile that they can’t do what every e-store in America does every day. Fuck them.
That said, I don’t think removing silencers from the NFA materially affects SC’s business. Why? Because of the above mentioned gun stores. And, because of all of SC’s competitor on line silencer stores that thrive in the environment while still shipping to a B&M for pick up.
Hell, I have a pile of suppressors and “how do I get this to my house” was like the eleventeenth worry. Honestly, drive 20 minutes to pick it up or sweat while is bounces around the US in the back of a “mail van.” Yeah, I’ll pick it up. Thank you very much.
Will they need to innovate their business model? Yes.
But, maintaining the status quo is the easy button for them. I’d guess that laziness (just do what we’ve always done), and the above mentioned super fudd are the biggest causes.
Oh, and I can’t even with The VSO Gun Channel. “Guys, I just heard about this and had to make a video. (AKA, someone else posted a video and I gotta get in on some of those views)- 5minutes of blather without any good info.- “Ok, gotta pay the bills.”- 5 more minutes of inane blather.- Anyway, tell me what you think in the comments.” Ten to 15 minutes gone. Nothing gained.
That said, I don’t think removing silencers from the NFA materially affects SC’s business. Why? Because of the above mentioned gun stores. And, because of all of SC’s competitor on line silencer stores that thrive in the environment while still shipping to a B&M for pick up.
Hell, I have a pile of suppressors and “how do I get this to my house” was like the eleventeenth worry. Honestly, drive 20 minutes to pick it up or sweat while is bounces around the US in the back of a “mail van.” Yeah, I’ll pick it up. Thank you very much.
Will they need to innovate their business model? Yes.
But, maintaining the status quo is the easy button for them. I’d guess that laziness (just do what we’ve always done), and the above mentioned super fudd are the biggest causes.
Oh, and I can’t even with The VSO Gun Channel. “Guys, I just heard about this and had to make a video. (AKA, someone else posted a video and I gotta get in on some of those views)- 5minutes of blather without any good info.- “Ok, gotta pay the bills.”- 5 more minutes of inane blather.- Anyway, tell me what you think in the comments.” Ten to 15 minutes gone. Nothing gained.
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The thought that making a can from scratch is so easy and so cheap for something lasting and good. Sure you can make one out of aluminum but do you really want to? Clr eats it, if you're not careful ultrasonic can erode it. Anything that resists those is expensive for raw materials and much harder to machine. I've been a machinist for going on 20 years and I work with those materials.
The comparison with the European stuff is there are some available here that are quite cheap with better tech. We also have a much wider section. Comparing the French cans, they're cheap and mostly disposable. You aren't getting what we get here.
Careful. This is about Silencer Central and not Silencer Shop.
This is my opinion, the points of his post 1) Silencer Central to protect their business is trying to keep suppressors on the NFA because they make money from it. 2) It was his opinion that prices would come down without the NFA nonsense (imo this is probably accurate) 3) You took issue with numbers that he was clearly guessing at (the point was prices would probably come down). As someone that buys metals for industrial purposes, I agree with you that depending on the alloy, they can get exspensive.
To answer some of your questions from a previous post, we have a machine shop and there is zero doubt that I could easily make a suppressor (traditional baffle design) out of multiple different materials. I agree with you that a soft metal suppressor is kind of pointless. Because we have invested in 3D printing tech, I do not think it would be that difficult to produce more complicated flow through designs, it is just a question of an accurate cad model to feed into the printer. Because of this, I think that suppressors would drop in price by a significant amount.
Have you seen the inside of a modern Silencer Central product? My silencers are simple cans with baffles that fall right out. Like a flashlight full of little metal funnels. I can't do the pretty decorations on the outsides, and I can't make anything as finely finished as factory silencers, but on the other hand, I am not a Chinese Silencer Central competitor who has 5 decades of CNC experience and plenty of capital. This is not a hard project for a pro. No machinist ever says, "I got fired from Silencer Central, so I had to go work for Lockheed." All the machining on these things probably takes less than 15 minutes per unit.
Are you a machinist? Amateur machinists cut titanium all the time, and I would think any machinist would know that, so I am surprised by your question. By a funny coincidence, I have machined Inconel. Just one piece. Can't recall what I did with it. I've made a few doodads from other types of stainless. No problems.
Personally, I have never bought metal by the pound. That's how scrap is sold. New metal suppliers sell shapes and materials cut to length. Nobody says, "I want to make a shaft extension for a motor, so I guess I'll take three pounds." I've always told dealers to cut this or that length. I give them lists. I've never seen a scale at a retail dealer's business. Just band saws.
It seems odd that you mentioned weight. Maybe you know something I don't. Maybe Silencer Central buys so much titanium, they weigh it on truck scales.
I'll assume your prices are right, but I'll also assume that a big manufacturer would get good prices on big orders. So $10 per pound, which justifies a $1500 bill? Assuming lots of waste, it adds up to maybe $50 for my biggest can. I'm not sure how this supports $1000+ suppressor costs. I doubt 90% of the metal is wasted, since titanium comes in tubing form. Are you saying a silencer manufacturer would buy bar stock, drill it lengthwise, and then bore it to size? I find that hard to believe. That would be a colossal pain. The added time and the cost of the associated tooling and consumables would be problems a manufacturer would look to avoid.
As for baffles, you would lose a lot, but I don't think it would be 90%. I'll bet it's a little lower. Chuck a bar. Cut funnel from it. Part off. Rechuck bar. Cut another funnel from it. I suppose you would have to drill baffles because no supplier is going to give you a fat bar with a 0.35" bore in it, but I don't know. A 0.35" bore is a lot easier to create than a 1" bore that holds baffles.
A nice pistol is much harder to make than a silencer, and you can get great examples for $600.
My .22 silencer cost me over $700. It weighs 4.3 ounces.
I should have looked more closely at the French site, but those prices are still great by US standards, and they probably include the French 20% VAT.
"Clearly guessing." Thank you. And I was talking about myself, a person who fiddles around with tools at his home, not a professional who could design a silencer in 30 minutes and have his team getting the tooling ready the same day.
"Zero doubt that I could easily make a suppressor." From a person who says, "We have a machine shop." That carries weight.
When people all around the world are making something and selling it cheaper than you do, it's reasonable for people to presume it can be done in your country.
Far more important than price is the real need to make silencer use more widespread. If we could buy silencers at Bass Pro over the counter, a great deal of unnecessary hearing damage would be prevented.
I am not making a final judgment about Silencer Central, because for all I know, there is some explanation for their use of disturbing language in their filing and their use of weaselly-sounding language in their response to the uproar. Just pointing out the obvious: it looks bad.
I did read awhile back when tbac came out with their 50 cal can it started out as a 38lb piece of material finished weight just over 4lbs
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44lb bar of titanium (704 oz). Ends at 73.5 oz (4lb 9.5 oz). About 90% gone.
Well I will chime in here as far as machining goes. I am a retired toolmaker originally in the aerospace industry all manual machines. I then went into CNC machining in the linear motion industry.
IMO if they take suppressors of the restricted list ANY machine shop could pump these things out on basic machines manually or a CNC setup quite easily. CNC would definitely be the way to go and could machine a suppressor in less than an hour machine time. I am positive there are CNC shops out there that are making far more complex parts and if the restrictions were lifted they could make suppressors far more efficiently than the small shops making them now. Operator knowledge and experience and size, quality of machine centers.
The 8 CNC machine centers I ran were roughly the size of a semi with the trailer attached. 12 foot tall 10 foot wide and 32 foot long making 10-12 parts per 1 hour cycle holding 14 micron tolerances. At this point of the process, a finished unassembled bearing block, was in the $50 dollar range. This is material, cutting, drilling, tapping, heat treat and ground to spec.
Again IMO the prices on the best cans out there would easily be less than half of what they are now, Also take into consideration a guy with a lathe and mill in his garage could machine them and not even have to buy one.
IMO if they take suppressors of the restricted list ANY machine shop could pump these things out on basic machines manually or a CNC setup quite easily. CNC would definitely be the way to go and could machine a suppressor in less than an hour machine time. I am positive there are CNC shops out there that are making far more complex parts and if the restrictions were lifted they could make suppressors far more efficiently than the small shops making them now. Operator knowledge and experience and size, quality of machine centers.
The 8 CNC machine centers I ran were roughly the size of a semi with the trailer attached. 12 foot tall 10 foot wide and 32 foot long making 10-12 parts per 1 hour cycle holding 14 micron tolerances. At this point of the process, a finished unassembled bearing block, was in the $50 dollar range. This is material, cutting, drilling, tapping, heat treat and ground to spec.
Again IMO the prices on the best cans out there would easily be less than half of what they are now, Also take into consideration a guy with a lathe and mill in his garage could machine them and not even have to buy one.
I make turbine jet engines for a living where raw material goes in 1 end and finished engines go out the other. Specifically I work on the hot side of the engine. Rotating parts from orange area back is what I have worked on the last 9 years. 85%+ of what I work with is inconel 718 or 909 with 15-5 next and Mar M 247 after that. Have also done hastelloy x, 420ss, 440c, 17-4, s7, nitronic 40, udimet. Mostly run grinders now but many years experience on lathes.
Previously used to make specialty bolts and a few other machining jobs. Inconel 625, astm a453 grade 660 (essentially a286), 300 series stainless, 400 series, brass, invar 36, ferallium 255, cast iron, ductile iron, graphite, 4140, 8620, 6061 aluminum, mangalloy, delrin, and teflon.
I remembered it as 44 (probably before the edit).
Numbers change from 705 to 608 and the percentage becomes 88% gone.
Post below screenshot it starts as 4' 50lb bar.
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Yeah I hear ya hell I thought I read it was 50lbs to begin with awhile back, so you build turbines and I’m on a location now as an operator on an lm2500 turbine
Our biggest only puts out 3600lbf of thrust but we also do cruise missile turbines.
That’s pretty sweet the one I’m on produce’s like 33,000 shaft hp it’s mounted inside a semi trailer it’s like 20’ long, we’re pushing a little over 20 mega watts right now
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