Feds building cross dept gun owner database

[teknikallysekure]

The new Palantir cross department data sharing contains all manner of concerning things, but one I don't see anyone talking about is that it will be tracking every single firearm and ammo purchase and making those records available without warrant or really any justification across federal departments.

Everyone thinks this is a good idea?

 

[TheHorta]

“If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.” — Deersniper.

 

[akmike47]

We’ve known this has been being compiled for years now, you think they did it for funsies? This isn’t really news.

 

[teknikallysekure]

We’ve known this has been being compiled for years now, you think they did it for funsies? This isn’t really news.

I guess.

Pretty big difference between isolated government agencies running cobol databases you have to basically provide the blood of your firstborn to query, and a Palantir aggregator of social media, purchasing records, all cross agency databases, and chucking it up in the cloud with massive resources allocated for casual local law enforcement access.

If you think these two things aren't insanely different scenarios you are in for a big surprise.

It's not an accident the trump admin simultaneously announces they're aggregating all of the intelligence agencies data allowing them to purchase it and making it available across agencies.

This is way more hardcore than China's social credit scoring system by a longshot.

Note, veterans are absolutely going to be instantly catalogued as higher risk and will be the front end of every dragnet. The fact that we're cataloging and assessing the entirety of the american civilian population for criminal intent, without any due process or having to justify building a case against them seems like a pretty big change of pace compared to the historic unwillingness to turn our technological weapons inward.

 

[Franko]

I guess.

Pretty big difference between isolated government agencies running cobol databases you have to basically provide the blood of your firstborn to query, and a Palantir aggregator of social media, purchasing records, all cross agency databases, and chucking it up in the cloud with massive resources allocated for casual local law enforcement access.

If you think these two things aren't insanely different scenarios you are in for a big surprise.

It's not an accident the trump admin simultaneously announces they're aggregating all of the intelligence agencies data allowing them to purchase it and making it available across agencies.

This is way more hardcore than China's social credit scoring system by a longshot.

Note, veterans are absolutely going to be instantly catalogued as higher risk and will be the front end of every dragnet. The fact that we're cataloging and assessing the entirety of the american civilian population for criminal intent, without any due process or having to justify building a case against them seems like a pretty big change of pace compared to the historic unwillingness to turn our technological weapons inward.

My take on this is that Palantir is going to be paid very nicely to act as a backchannel to feed all the private sector data the Feds aren't supposed to be playing with to the alphabet agencies so they can really get things rolling with their LLM development work. I wonder if there isn't already a civil war going on inside the government for control over these assets because of how effective they are going to be against political opponents and the electorate.

 

[MO Fugga]

My take on this is that Palantir is going to be paid very nicely to act as a backchannel to feed all the private sector data the Feds aren't supposed to be playing with to the alphabet agencies so they can really get things rolling with their LLM development work. I wonder if there isn't already a civil war going on inside the government for control over these assets because of how effective they are going to be against political opponents and the electorate.

They routinely get foreign governments to do it, when it's technically illegal for them to do it themselves.

 

[6.5SH]

They routinely get foreign governments to do it, when it's technically illegal for them to do it themselves.

And we've done for them in exchange.

 

[wvfarrier]

But, but....the Republicans will save us

 

[The D]

You guys wanted a more efficient fedgov. Here it is

 

[Fx51LP308]

The State of Maryland has had one of these for quite some time. The MCAC. It's how they are able to stop drivers along I-95 if they suspect the driver is carrying weapons/explosives. The MTAP (the agency that patrols the tunnels/bridges) tag a driver's car via the ALPR cameras in their vehicles. It then ties in with the MCAC databases to see if that driver has a CCW permit/license. If it comes up positive, they'll stop the vehicle and demand to search it.

Just ask John Filippidis.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Pretty big difference between isolated government agencies running cobol databases you have to basically provide the blood of your firstborn to query, and a Palantir aggregator of social media, purchasing records, all cross agency databases, and chucking it up in the cloud with massive resources allocated for casual local law enforcement access.

I fail to see the difference in overreaching gubment agencies collecting information they don’t need regardless of what level they are?

 

[lonegunman762x51]

They have been doing this since 1968. No fucking surprise here. They state of Washington has had one for at least 20 years. Authorized persons simply fill out a request and the state patrol sends them a list of EVERY gun purchases you made.

 

[Maggot]

The State of Maryland has had one of these for quite some time. The MCAC. It's how they are able to stop drivers along I-95 if they suspect the driver is carrying weapons/explosives. The MTAP (the agency that patrols the tunnels/bridges) tag a driver's car via the ALPR cameras in their vehicles. It then ties in with the MCAC databases to see if that driver has a CCW permit/license. If it comes up positive, they'll stop the vehicle and demand to search it.

Just ask John Filippidis.

Best thing to do is just stay south of the Mason Dixon line.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Best thing to do is just stay south of the Mason Dixon line.

Unfortunately, Maryland *is* below the Mason-Dixon Line. It's the border between Penn. & MD and, if extended out in a straight line, it cuts into the last Southern 5th of the PRNJ.

 

[918v]

If you got a wife like that don’t take her on trips.

 

[teknikallysekure]

I fail to see the difference in overreaching gubment agencies collecting information they don’t need regardless of what level they are?

I mean, for people who value their liberty the principle is the same.

However, the magnitude of the infringement here is almost night and day.

This toolchain will make China's social credit system look ancient and incompetent.

It will be used in ways Orwell could not have fathomed. People who think what is being proposed here is "just another state database" are completely missing the difference in outcomes here. Any way I try to describe how this will be used using TODAYs technology is going to sound like minority report esque science fiction, but that's what we're talking about. Not another state run gun database.

 

[Maggot]

Unfortunately, Maryland *is* below the Mason-Dixon Line. It's the border between Penn. & MD and, if extended out in a straight line, it cuts into the last Southern 5th of the PRNJ.

My bad. How about south of the Potomac?

 

[Fx51LP308]

My bad. How about south of the Potomac?

I think the easier approach would be, simply, to avoid the harbor tunnels, altogether. Avoid the Baltimore Harbor and Ft. McHenry Tunnels and use the bridges instead (Francis Scott Key Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge, etc.). The reason why MTAP is so "omnipresent" at the tunnels is that they are a much harder asset to protect and represent a way much higher cost (both time & $$$) to repair or replace if destroyed by a terrorist attack or something. A bridge could be repaired/replaced relatively quickly. A tunnel, not so much. This is not to say that MTAP doesn't patrol the bridges either, but not as voraciously as the tunnels.

 

[teknikallysekure]

My bad. How about south of the Potomac?

People here have a very outmoded concept of what this extrajudicial database will function as.

It won't matter if your state has database of firearms ownership. Your phone number or an email address you use and your IP are on snipershide and so a deeper AI driven agentic query went through your purchasing records and sees ammo it validated with a geofencing search of your cell phone location data near a gunshop. Or you buy reloading supplies.

Regardless you won't need to have actual records of gun ownership you'll be able to infer it with high confidence.

 

[Maggot]

I think the easier approach would be, simply, to avoid the harbor tunnels, altogether. Avoid the Baltimore Harbor and Ft. McHenry Tunnels and use the bridges instead (Francis Scott Key Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge, etc.). The reason why MTAP is so "omnipresent" at the tunnels is that they are a much harder asset to protect and represent a way much higher cost (both time & $$$) to repair or replace if destroyed by a terrorist attack or something. A bridge could be repaired/replaced relatively quickly. A tunnel, not so much. This is not to say that MTAP doesn't patrol the bridges either, but not as voraciously as the tunnels.

Tunnels scare me, I avoid them whenever possible. Imagine being in there and some moron touches of a truck full of fertilizer. And going in one in LA is out of the question.

 

[Short-bus]

This isn't new, feds have been stockpiling massive amounts of data on a variety of focal points. There's a variety of ways your information passes through public venues that through EULA's you've agreed to both actively, and passively, you've granted access for them to compile and use the data how they see fit. They will use a variety of tools that they've created and analyze data in ways to assist in making decisions on topics they're focused on. You're worried about the government over reaching and violating your constitutional rights, and yet you use google, facebook, instagram, perhaps even tiktok, ect. Have you read those EULA's? Of course not, they're very long, contain legal language that doesn't make sense to the laymen. There is nothing the government doesn't already know about you, and your habits, that social media, and the largest data brokers in the world, haven't already sold to them, and you agreed to it on the EULA that you signed in some form or another. If you want to sue over it, then you have to go through binding arbitration that you also agreed to, and use a arbitor that they're paying for, that is almost certainly going to rule in their favor, not yours.

You'd basically have to live like it's 1950, on a paid for piece of property, that has it's taxes paid for from a trust that's managed by a trusted 3rd party that only communicates with you through snail mail, and you'd have to never leave the property, and be 100% self sustaining on said property, in order to not have a massive digital trail that shows everything you've done, and are doing, and even then, the .gov is going to be very suspicious of you.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Tunnels scare me, I avoid them whenever possible. Imagine being in there and some moron touches of a truck full of fertilizer.

Precisely why the MTAP does what it does..... And why things like fertilizer and other chemicals are prohibited within them. It's why delivery trucks are checked before they're allowed in the tunnels.

 

[Redmanss]

You'd basically have to live like it's 1950, on a paid for piece of property, that has it's taxes paid for from a trust that's managed by a trusted 3rd party that only communicates with you through snail mail, and you'd have to never leave the property, and be 100% self sustaining on said property, in order to not have a massive digital trail that shows everything you've done, and are doing, and even then, the .gov is going to be very suspicious of you.

Just a Hollywierd story, but the gov still found Jeremiah Johnson and destroyed his life.

 

[teknikallysekure]

This isn't new, feds have been stockpiling massive amounts of data on a variety of focal points. There's a variety of ways your information passes through public venues that through EULA's you've agreed to both actively, and passively, you've granted access for them to compile and use the data how they see fit. They will use a variety of tools that they've created and analyze data in ways to assist in making decisions on topics they're focused on. You're worried about the government over reaching and violating your constitutional rights, and yet you use google, facebook, instagram, perhaps even tiktok, ect. Have you read those EULA's? Of course not, they're very long, contain legal language that doesn't make sense to the laymen. There is nothing the government doesn't already know about you, and your habits, that social media, and the largest data brokers in the world, haven't already sold to them, and you agreed to it on the EULA that you signed in some form or another. If you want to sue over it, then you have to go through binding arbitration that you also agreed to, and use a arbitor that they're paying for, that is almost certainly going to rule in their favor, not yours.

You'd basically have to live like it's 1950, on a paid for piece of property, that has it's taxes paid for from a trust that's managed by a trusted 3rd party that only communicates with you through snail mail, and you'd have to never leave the property, and be 100% self sustaining on said property, in order to not have a massive digital trail that shows everything you've done, and are doing, and even then, the .gov is going to be very suspicious of you.

My entire career is based on building and deploying systems globally that evade state surveillance and persist beyond censorship in China, Turkey, Iran etc.

I have worked on actual Palantir deployments with European governments.

What I'm trying to explain here is that the database being proposed here is unlike ANYTHING that currently exists, and will be used in ways that are so invasive you can hardly imagine them. I'm intimately familiar with how Facebook, Google and others gather, broker and use/sell data. This is far worse and will permanently change every single American's lived experience for the worse.

If you see this as just something the government was already doing, you are deeply underestimating the technological differences in what the government has previously done and what they are attempting to do now.

 

[Short-bus]

This is far worse and will permanently change every single American's lived experience for the worse.

How so? Is there an actual plan in place to make our lives suck more, or are you pulling an Alex Jones and telling me the water's turning the frogs gay (fear mongering)

 

[teknikallysekure]

How so? Is there an actual plan in place to make our lives suck more, or are you pulling an Alex Jones and telling me the water's turning the frogs gay (fear mongering)

AH, you're one of these "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about" folks aren't you

 

[The D]

How so? Is there an actual plan in place to make our lives suck more, or are you pulling an Alex Jones and telling me the water's turning the frogs gay (fear mongering)

Do the terms;

15 minute cities
Social credit score

Mean anything to you?

The blood-soaked paedophiles that run the world have been talking about this for decades(at least)

 

[mosin46]

My entire career is based on building and deploying systems globally that evade state surveillance and persist beyond censorship in China, Turkey, Iran etc.

I have worked on actual Palantir deployments with European governments.

What I'm trying to explain here is that the database being proposed here is unlike ANYTHING that currently exists, and will be used in ways that are so invasive you can hardly imagine them. I'm intimately familiar with how Facebook, Google and others gather, broker and use/sell data. This is far worse and will permanently change every single American's lived experience for the worse.

If you see this as just something the government was already doing, you are deeply underestimating the technological differences in what the government has previously done and what they are attempting to do now.

being digitally ignorant and highly paranoid,i would like an understandable explanation. i doubt you are exaggerating. if you are what you intimate is and has been planned long time. results likely to be as you say. prob useful to most as info only. doubt anyone's ability to fight it or avoid it with the exception of a nuc war,asteroid hit or other planetary cataclysm.
said it before the digital world is nothing but a huge trap for humanity.

 

[Short-bus]

AH, you're one of these "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about" folks aren't you

Not even close, do you have an answer, or only diversions?

 

[Short-bus]

Do the terms;

15 minute cities
Social credit score

Mean anything to you?

The blood-soaked paedophiles that run the world have been talking about this for decades(at least)

Heard of both of those from different people, incidentally both were wearing tinfoil hats and telling me the water turns the frogs gay.

 

[teknikallysekure]

being digitally ignorant and highly paranoid,i would like an understandable explanation. i doubt you are exaggerating. if you are what you intimate is and has been planned long time. results likely to be as you say. prob useful to most as info only. doubt anyone's ability to fight it or avoid it with the exception of a nuc war,asteroid hit or other planetary cataclysm.
said it before the digital world is nothing but a huge trap for humanity.

Fair question.

I'm not going to get into the technical details of event driven systems with Agentic AI MPC backends but think of it like this.

ICE(ATF) has just been given a memo to basically ignore the 4th amendment entirely. They will now have a target list generated in real time delivered to their laptop or phone with a list of people based on different scores. They have a patriot score of 23, and a dangerous person score of 74, a proximity to immigrants score of 32 and you're about to pass them on the left they're 5'11 have long brown hair this is their most recent passport photo, or even potentially here's a more recent set of photos their grandkid posted of them on social media.

I can go into significant detail about how all these things will work, but the point is the 4th amendment is basically dead, and if you think that's a-ok because Trump is in office you're gonna take a little longer to get the wakeup call that some blue haired librarian gets but don't think for a minute you're not next.

 

[teknikallysekure]

People here calling conspiracy theory probably don't have experience building distributed decentralized databases and event driven systems, but I've done both and without getting to into the weeds I've seen Palantir's approach first hand.

What I described above is probably the tamest implementation we should expect.

 

[teknikallysekure]

It also seems to be the first response to a lot of people "The government already has databases and abuses them"

Fellas, that is absolutely true but if you think it's easy for a local sheriff to get access to NSA databases I think you're living in lala land.

In this new world we're building however, the local sheriff won't even be asking for targeting data it will be pushed to him. The feds will be in the drivers seat al the way down and every single google search you've made in the last 15 years and every chatGPT query will be your judge jury and executioner.

 

[Detroit_1]

Do the terms;

15 minute cities
Social credit score

Mean anything to you?

The blood-soaked paedophiles that run the world have been talking about this for decades(at least)

Some of the folks from the PayPal Mafia would like to add to your list: Blurring the lines: Making people more like machines and machines more like people

The Tower of Babel wasn't just a story in some old book.

 

[The D]

Heard of both of those from different people, incidentally both were wearing tinfoil hats and telling me the water turns the frogs gay.

What about The Great Reset?

 

[The D]

Some of the folks from the PayPal Mafia would like to add to your list: Blurring the lines: Making people more like machines and machines more like people

The Tower of Babel wasn't just a story in some old book.

Indeed, they would

The PayPal Presidency Pt. I: Biotech and Biosurveillance with Max Jones

In this episode, Whitney is joined by UH contributor Max Jones to discuss the influence of the PayPal Mafia's Peter Thiel on Trump's HHS, the likely policies of a RFK-led HHS, and what the expansion of the contracts between HHS and the Thiel-founded Palantir portend for the expansion of the...

unlimitedhangout.com

 

[mosin46]

Some of the folks from the PayPal Mafia would like to add to your list: Blurring the lines: Making people more like machines and machines more like people

The Tower of Babel wasn't just a story in some old book.

seems to me that Kaczynski is a prophet on the level of Huxley and Orwell.

 

[Ronws]

How so? Is there an actual plan in place to make our lives suck more, or are you pulling an Alex Jones and telling me the water's turning the frogs gay (fear mongering)

Wait - the government can make that will turn frogs gay but they can't get us back to the moon?

 

[teknikallysekure]

Some of the folks from the PayPal Mafia would like to add to your list: Blurring the lines: Making people more like machines and machines more like people

The Tower of Babel wasn't just a story in some old book.

Peter Thiel is not a great guy, but I mean he hasn't exactly been secretive about his plans they literally have wanted to replace the entirety of our governments internals with AI and bend that AI towards making decisions which bias towards outcomes the tech billionaires see as beneficial for years now.

Yarvin's blog is like 8 years old now. They think all the non tech people are not capable of making decisions and they should be in charge of everything. Trump was just a convenient way to make that happen. He'll get rich in the process for sure.

 

[teknikallysekure]

What about The Great Reset?

I'll be honest I don't subscribe to conspiracies like everything is centrally controlled or planned or coordinated. There's plenty to gripe about with stuff we can observe first hand without getting into blind conjecture territory.