Neck collapsed reloading new brass?

[rmiked]

I was loading new ADG brass for 7 PRC this AM. I performed no case prep. Done this before, insert primer, charge with powder, seat bullet. While searing the bullet, the neck collapsed at the base (at body of case). This has never happened before. Obviously can’t chamber the round as the OD of the body is enlarged as it squashed out. I don’t have a bullet puller. Should I have chamfered the case neck? Should I have lubricated the inside of the neck? And what is the safest way to dispose of a primed and charged round that is unusable? The inside diameter of the new brass necks match those of sized brass being 2.281”.
Thanks.

 

[spife7980]

Chamfer yes. Lube yes. Make sure the seater die isn’t too far down, it it bottoms out on the neck you’re going to crush cases.

 

[Baron23]

I was loading new ADG brass for 7 PRC this AM. I performed no case prep. Done this before, insert primer, charge with powder, seat bullet. While searing the bullet, the neck collapsed at the base (at body of case). This has never happened before. Obviously can’t chamber the round as the OD of the body is enlarged as it squashed out. I don’t have a bullet puller. Should I have chamfered the case neck? Should I have lubricated the inside of the neck? And what is the safest way to dispose of a primed and charged round that is unusable? The inside diameter of the new brass necks match those of sized brass being 2.281”.
Thanks.

Yes, yes, and just pull the bullet out with pliers/channel locks. Who cares if you mangle the case as it’s FUBAR’d already.

I’d just toss the case w primer but if you want, just decap it.

 

[OREGUN]

Chamfer yes. Lube yes. Make sure the seater die isn’t too far down, it it bottoms out on the neck you’re going to crush cases.

Way more likely that the seater was set incorrectly and is hitting the brass mouth like he says here. But yes, chamfer and lube new brass. Tumbling in dry media can add enough dust to smooth things out a bit if you really don’t want to lube. Don’t dispose. Set it on your bench to remind you not to do it again.

 

[AllenOne1]

I normally full length resize new cases then set the neck size with a mandrel die so that everything is consistent. A little lube in the neck helps. Chamfer the case. As Spife said make sure your seating die isn't set to low and causing the case to be compressed by the die.

 

[OREGUN]

On second thought, throw it in a fire place. Tape a marble to the case head and throw it down hard on concrete. Clamp it in a vice and smack the primer with a pin punch. Drill a hole in the bullet and use it as a keychain. Chuck it in the “brass” bin at the range. Throw it in a lake.

Use a leather pad around the bullet, pull it with pliers. Reuse the bullet and powder. Shit’s expensive.

 

[rmiked]

I backed my seater die out 2 full turns after bottoming out on case mouth, to assure that’s not the issue. After chamfering the inside of necks, they seated fine now. I lube inside of the necks when sizing case to keep the expander ball moving smoothly. Thanks for the advice. I was able to get the bullet out of the damaged case using 2 sets of pliers. The powder was removed so it’s safe now. I never had round I couldn’t chamber before. Of course I didn’t attempt that as it was obviously messed up.

 

[Rhed]

Neck tension too tight? Expander mandrel? Or use dry neck lube? Or like said, back out on the die.

 

[memilanuk]

I was loading new ADG brass for 7 PRC this AM. I performed no case prep.

First problem, right there.

Done this before, insert primer, charge with powder, seat bullet. While searing the bullet, the neck collapsed at the base (at body of case). This has never happened before. Obviously can’t chamber the round as the OD of the body is enlarged as it squashed out.

What kind of die are you using? The better quality inline micrometer seaters (Redding, Forster, Wilson, etc.) tend to not have that kind of problem. Partly because the body sleeve supports things better, and partly because they don't have any option for crimping depending on how the die is adjusted.

I don’t have a bullet puller.

Go to the local sporting goods store - or Midway/Amazon/whatever, and get one. A generic kinetic 'hammer' style puller works fine. The collet style pullers work better, but cost more and/or are more fussy to set up. Smack it on the floor until the bullet comes out, dump the powder back into the jug, and look at both the bullet OD and the neck ID to see what's going on.

Should I have chamfered the case neck?

On brand new virgin brass? Yes. Run it through a F/L sizing die with an expander, or over a mandrel, whichever you're using, to make sure the new brass is actually *round* and hasn't gotten dinged up in shipping/handling. Then a light chamfer to ease the bullet entry into the case mouth. This is metallic cartridge reloading 101.

Should I have lubricated the inside of the neck?

It probably wouldn't hurt, particularly on virgin brass. Some manufacturers - Lapua for sure, dunno about ADG - finish with a wash cycle that leaves some sort of residue that results in obnoxiously high initial seating force. Like 'holy $hit' seating force - but still not enough to collapse the neck , in my experience. You can either put some sort of lube inside the case necks... or throw the new brass in the tumbler with some used dry media for an hour or so. The tumbler dust does a surprisingly good job of acting like a dry lube on the neck ID, and can dramatically reduce that seating force on virgin brass. FWIW, that tip came straight from a Lapua rep at a big match, years ago.

 

[straightshooter1]

All of this ^^^^^

On inspecting my ADG brass, when I first got it, I could see that the trim length was very consistent, but . . . their trim left very distinct burrs on both the inside and outside diameter. Those burrs needed to be removed and chamfering was especially important to do. Once chamfered and deburred my 6.5 PRC ADG cases, I had no problem seating my bullets (though I do use a Wilson Inline Seating Die with micrometer).

 

[diggler1833]

My guess is the die was incorrectly set up. This is based off the fact that I've done the exact same thing before. in my case, I swapped from one die manufacturer to another and didn't read/follow the instructions exactly.

No brass prep isn't the way that I'd do it, but unless you tried to seat a flat-based bullet in a obviously damaged case mouth already you aren't going to create a shortened and improved case just by seating a boat tailed bullet. That is a die setup issue.

You can also have stupidly tight 'neck tension' - interference fit, and the boat tailed bullet is just going to essentially act as a mandrel... but you may see copper shavings. I did that once too with getting a bushing that was way too tight. Same thing with not chamfering the case mouth... shavings but no crush with a boat tailed bullet.

Flat based bullets are a different animal. Since we're talking 7PRC, I'm going to assume that this wasn't the case though.

 

[3rdfocal]

I collapsed 3/50 necks on ADG 300 wsm brass a few months ago just using 21st century nitride mandrel on virgin brass, same mandrel I've used on thousands of 308/300wm/nm cases without issue. The shoulders folded inside the case body and I could barely even feel it happen. Never had this happen on any other brass ever. Setup was not an issue, I can only attribute it to abnormally soft brass.

 

[straightshooter1]

I collapsed 3/50 necks on ADG 300 wsm brass a few months ago just using 21st century nitride mandrel on virgin brass, same mandrel I've used on thousands of 308/300wm/nm cases without issue. The shoulders folded inside the case body and I could barely even feel it happen. Never had this happen on any other brass ever. Setup was not an issue, I can only attribute it to abnormally soft brass.

Hmmm??? Did you chamfer that ADG virgin brass? And do you keep you mandrel clean from burrs that might come off and lodge into it?

My .308 ADB brass came with consistent trim lengths, but they were not chamfered or deburred. They had significant burrs on both the ID's and OD's. I chamfered and deburred mine before running any mandrel through them. In my experience, a mandrel doesn't always take care of the ID burrs.

 

[3rdfocal]

Hmmm??? Did you chamfer that ADG virgin brass? And do you keep you mandrel clean from burrs that might come off and lodge into it?

My .308 ADB brass came with consistent trim lengths, but they were not chamfered or deburred. They had significant burrs on both the ID's and OD's. I chamfered and deburred my before running any mandrel through them. In my experience, a mandrel doesn't always take are of the ID burrs.

Heres 2 of the 3. I have to expand them before chamfering so they will fit over the pilot on my henderson trimmer. There were no signifi ant burs on the necks and my mandrel is in great shape. When these necks folded in, the feeling was nearly indiscernable from the rest of the cases, didn't realize what happened until the case came out of the die.

 

[straightshooter1]

View attachment 8712155
Heres 2 of the 3. I have to expand them before chamfering so they will fit over the pilot on my henderson trimmer. There were no signifi ant burs on the necks and my mandrel is in great shape. When these necks folded in, the feeling was nearly indiscernable from the rest of the cases, didn't realize what happened until the case came out of the die.

Yeah, that's pretty bad!
In looking at your picture, another thing just now occurred to me that'd be in addition to the issue of burrs. Looking at the inside of the necks (including those of my own virgin ADG's) I noticed the coating from ADG's annealing process. Annealing always leaves an oxidation layer that actually quite abrasive. It makes me think it added additional resistance when drawing the mandrel through the neck, which may have contributed to that??? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I know you said you didn't feel much resistance thinking it's due to them being too soft. But it still take quite a bit of pressure to fold the shoulders like that. When I tested the necks on ADG's for hardness with my Webster Harness Tester, they tested just a little harder than my Lapua brass and about the same as my Peterson brass. I know that doesn't mean your brass couldn't be different. This is just to let you know what I found when doing measurements with my brass.

 

[Rhed]

View attachment 8712155
Heres 2 of the 3. I have to expand them before chamfering so they will fit over the pilot on my henderson trimmer. There were no signifi ant burs on the necks and my mandrel is in great shape. When these necks folded in, the feeling was nearly indiscernable from the rest of the cases, didn't realize what happened until the case came out of the die.

This happened during seating?

 

[3rdfocal]

This happened during seating?

No. Virgin brass, expander mandrel in preparation for chamfering and loading.

For the record, I'm not bashing ADG, they make good brass. But I've only had this happen with this particular brass.

@rmiked post a picture of your brass

 

[straightshooter1]

 

[3rdfocal]

Not sure what you're trying to say here. 50/50 would have been ruined if the die wasn't set up correctly. It wasn't the first 3 cases that were ruined.

 

[CaptArab]

Sometimes when it's sticky and painful to get it in you need to lube up something smaller and stick it in first to open it up

 

[Edsel]

View attachment 8712155
Heres 2 of the 3. I have to expand them before chamfering so they will fit over the pilot on my henderson trimmer. There were no signifi ant burs on the necks and my mandrel is in great shape. When these necks folded in, the feeling was nearly indiscernable from the rest of the cases, didn't realize what happened until the case came out of the die.

My brass, after excessive annealing - meaning, they were really soft (I was playing around with the induction annealer).

Also used a carbide mandrel for neck dilation, which led to this.

Lips would bell a bit, but shoulders would collapse.

Results appear identical.

 

[3rdfocal]

View attachment 8712608

My brass, after excessive annealing - meaning, they were really soft (I was playing around with the induction annealer).

Also used a carbide mandrel for neck dilation, which led to this.

Lips would bell a bit, but shoulders would collapse.

Results appear identical.

Excessive annealing from the factory is what I have assumed in my case. You can neck up lapua 6br to 30br in one pass and not collapse a shoulder. But expanding a few thousandths did them in...

 

[Rhed]

No. Virgin brass, expander mandrel in preparation for chamfering and loading.

For the record, I'm not bashing ADG, they make good brass. But I've only had this happen with this particular brass.

@rmiked post a picture of your brass

I suspect the expander die is screwed down too much.