House Budget Proposal to remove Tax on Suppressors but not remove it from the NFA

[slowworm]

Something no one is talking about, taking the tax to 0 without removing from the NFA is a big problem for thereafter being able to remove them from the NFA. If there is no tax, we can not use a budget bill in the future to remove it from the NFA. The benefit of using a budget bill is a filibuster does not apply. So if there is no longer a tax and we want to try remove them from the NFA in the future it will just get filibustered. They should drop the tax to $1 if we’re not getting it removed in order to keep this option open in the future.

Look, I want nothing more than for the NFA to go away and me to be able to buy a lightning link legally for $100.

But the huge thing that people are ignoring is that if we use the budget process to get things off the NFA, you can use the budget process to put stuff on the NFA.

When the Democrats nuked the filibuster on judicial appointments they were warned it would backfire. It did. The dems thought they would never be out of power, so they opened that door and it got used against them later.

The GOA is playing a stupid and very short-sighted game. They are behaving as if anti-gun dems will never be back in power. If the GOA got their wish, then the next dem admin could put AR-15s and Magazines and semi-auto pistols on the NFA, with the full and correct justification that the precedent has been set. They could remove or overrule the pro-gun parliamentarian to keep the NFA additions in place.

My rule is to think of how my worst enemy would use the power I'm about to invoke against me and then decide if it's worth the risk.

Sure, you could argue they could do that anyway. Same as with the filibuster. What I do know is that if we open that door sure as hell, 100 percent certainty, it will get used against us later.

At least zeroing out the tax removes the justification for keeping them on the NFA. Using a normal bill to finish the job is far less likely to bite us in the butt later.

 

[Baron23]

That video could be 7 or 8 minutes shorter and still contain the same amount of useful information but the $1 amendment is sketchy for a reason.

I agree....all these guys bloviate endlessly but I guess just saying what is up in 2-3 minutes just won't satisfy their need to hear their own voice and perhaps won't get them the $$ from monetized content. Dunno really, but its why i don't watch most of these vids....they just can't seem to help themselves.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

What's out (stricken by the parliamentarian) is full NFA removal of suppressors and SB-things. Make them plain firearms only, 4473 only.

What's in is $0 tax with registration of suppressors and all the SB-things for both making and transfers this time where it was just transfers and only suppressors the first time. Still all the usual NFA forms plus a 4473.

But only if the Senate votes to send it to the House that way and only if the House doesn't change it ... reminds me of the swirling of in a toilet bowl ... will it flush?

The Senate did vote to send it to the House. Now let's see what happens over there in the other chamber.

 

[mosin46]

Look, I want nothing more than for the NFA to go away and me to be able to buy a lightning link legally for $100.

But the huge thing that people are ignoring is that if we use the budget process to get things off the NFA, you can use the budget process to put stuff on the NFA.

When the Democrats nuked the filibuster on judicial appointments they were warned it would backfire. It did. The dems thought they would never be out of power, so they opened that door and it got used against them later.

The GOA is playing a stupid and very short-sighted game. They are behaving as if anti-gun dems will never be back in power. If the GOA got their wish, then the next dem admin could put AR-15s and Magazines and semi-auto pistols on the NFA, with the full and correct justification that the precedent has been set. They could remove or overrule the pro-gun parliamentarian to keep the NFA additions in place.

My rule is to think of how my worst enemy would use the power I'm about to invoke against me and then decide if it's worth the risk.

Sure, you could argue they could do that anyway. Same as with the filibuster. What I do know is that if we open that door sure as hell, 100 percent certainty, it will get used against us later.

At least zeroing out the tax removes the justification for keeping them on the NFA. Using a normal bill to finish the job is far less likely to bite us in the butt later.

fair point. patriot act the perfect example.

 

[SilentStalkr]

The Senate did vote to send it to the House. Now let's see what happens over there in the other chamber.

I mean that’s great and all but I don’t consider this a win. I think for most people the $200 tax wasn’t an issue. I also curious what happens now when one buys an NFA item. Are we still going to get a stamp? Either way I feel like getting these items off the NFA altogether is what’s needed. Again, the tax for most people isn’t the issue. But maybe, just maybe this is some kind of strategy. If it’s no longer taxed, can it justifiable live under the NFA or will the USSC then come back somehow and call this an infringement?

 

[doubloon]

what happens now when one buys an NFA item. Are we still going to get a stamp?

If it's a $0 tax but still in the NFA then ATF Form to make/transfer/register, a "background check" and 4473 with a NICS to pick it up. Same as before just no $200.

Do they still give stamps? You get a copy of your approved form back that is defense against prosecution in gray zone states. So no different than before but no extra $200 tax.

If it's the $1 fuck you tax then same as before and same as above only $1 instead of $200 or $0.

If it's back what has supposedly been added as an amendment again then it's out of the NFA completely so no tax and no ATF form, no background check other than NICS for the 4473 when you pick it up. But still iffy in gray zone states because no registration paper in your hand as defense against prosecution.

Who gets stamps anymore?

 

[lroseen]

Look, I want nothing more than for the NFA to go away and me to be able to buy a lightning link legally for $100.

But the huge thing that people are ignoring is that if we use the budget process to get things off the NFA, you can use the budget process to put stuff on the NFA.

When the Democrats nuked the filibuster on judicial appointments they were warned it would backfire. It did. The dems thought they would never be out of power, so they opened that door and it got used against them later.

The GOA is playing a stupid and very short-sighted game. They are behaving as if anti-gun dems will never be back in power. If the GOA got their wish, then the next dem admin could put AR-15s and Magazines and semi-auto pistols on the NFA, with the full and correct justification that the precedent has been set. They could remove or overrule the pro-gun parliamentarian to keep the NFA additions in place.

My rule is to think of how my worst enemy would use the power I'm about to invoke against me and then decide if it's worth the risk.

Sure, you could argue they could do that anyway. Same as with the filibuster. What I do know is that if we open that door sure as hell, 100 percent certainty, it will get used against us later.

At least zeroing out the tax removes the justification for keeping them on the NFA. Using a normal bill to finish the job is far less likely to bite us in the butt later.

While I see your argument, courts are much more cautious about taking up cases the older a law is. Considering Bruen, I think once these are sold common place to add restrictions back on is a much more difficult burden for the left in the courts. I personally believe at least under this SCOTUS we are only a hand full of years away from them taking up an NFA case. That doesn’t mean we should wait to retake our rights. But if we get this back and the Dems try to add them back on the NFA, that will almost guarantee SCOTUS takes it up. Under Bruen and Heller adding anything to the NFA just won’t pass muster. The NFA itself wouldn’t pass the historical test, and none of the items could be considered both dangerous and unusual.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Andrew Clyde from Georgia just added the entire original language of the SBR and Suppressor back to the BBB. FINGERS CROSSED!!!

 

[Longshot231]

 

[mosin46]

LOL. i can't see the dims letting it go. that is all for show. if you would need a 4473 to buy,a record still sits with ATF,NSA or any gov agency that wants access. dumping NFA does not make them "secret" or eliminate gov intrusion on 2A. shall see.

 

[slowworm]

While I see your argument, courts are much more cautious about taking up cases the older a law is. Considering Bruen, I think once these are sold common place to add restrictions back on is a much more difficult burden for the left in the courts. I personally believe at least under this SCOTUS we are only a hand full of years away from them taking up an NFA case. That doesn’t mean we should wait to retake our rights. But if we get this back and the Dems try to add them back on the NFA, that will almost guarantee SCOTUS takes it up. Under Bruen and Heller adding anything to the NFA just won’t pass muster. The NFA itself wouldn’t pass the historical test, and none of the items could be considered both dangerous and unusual.

I do not share your confidence in the courts here. The courts have not taken up what appeared to be slam dunk 2A cases in my view based on Heller and Bruen. See Snope v. Brown and Ocean State Tactical v. Rhode Island both being denied cert.

 

[lash]

LOL. i can't see the dims letting it go. that is all for show. if you would need a 4473 to buy,a record still sits with ATF,NSA or any gov agency that wants access. dumping NFA does not make them "secret" or eliminate gov intrusion on 2A. shall see.

While I agree 100% with your position on this, I also have to ask exactly how much of what you do to exercise your 2A rights today do you think does not get recorded somewhere for use later?

I don’t like it, but it’s real.

 

[doubloon]

dumping NFA does not make them "secret" or eliminate gov intrusion on 2A

It also does not prevent states from making them outright illegal like the ew-toober says.

All it does is neuter the states ability to require papers or make any laws that require papers for suppressor, SB-things or AOWs.

They will remain illegal in communist states if this passes and it remains to be seen if gray zone states will split on the issue with some making them illegal because they can't count on registration anymore. No backstop to regulate FTF sales or home spun devices.

 

[SilentStalkr]

If it's a $0 tax but still in the NFA then ATF Form to make/transfer/register, a "background check" and 4473 with a NICS to pick it up. Same as before just no $200.

Do they still give stamps? You get a copy of your approved form back that is defense against prosecution in gray zone states. So no different than before but no extra $200 tax.

If it's the $1 fuck you tax then same as before and same as above only $1 instead of $200 or $0.

If it's back what has supposedly been added as an amendment again then it's out of the NFA completely so no tax and no ATF form, no background check other than NICS for the 4473 when you pick it up. But still iffy in gray zone states because no registration paper in your hand as defense against prosecution.

Who gets stamps anymore?

Hmmmm…so in the past, I got my forms back and an actual stamp affixed to the forms. I made copies and took all over with me. Admittedly, I haven’t bought or created an NFA item in a few years but I always got a stamp. It’s like further proof that you paid your tax. I’m not gonna go dig mine out and take pics as I’m sure you can google it. But yea, I’ve always got a physical stamp with my form. Sadly, I liked the stamps. They were unique. Ha. But frankly, I don’t think they should be in the nfa period and do not consider the no tax a win. I want them to be able to bought just like a gun. The fact I can buy a gun and walk out in a few minutes without even having a background check (assuming you have a CCW) now but have to go through rigorous BS to buy esssntially a fancy pipe is completely insane. The one that’s the more dangerous of the two is the easier of the two to obtain. Make it make sense.

 

[Longshot231]

 

[Longshot231]

This is a long video but there's a lot of discussion on where we are at now along with a Q&A in the chat with questions that some of you might have.

 

[Longshot231]

 

[clcustom1911]

If it's a $0 tax but still in the NFA then ATF Form to make/transfer/register, a "background check" and 4473 with a NICS to pick it up. Same as before just no $200.

Do they still give stamps? You get a copy of your approved form back that is defense against prosecution in gray zone states. So no different than before but no extra $200 tax.

If it's the $1 fuck you tax then same as before and same as above only $1 instead of $200 or $0.

If it's back what has supposedly been added as an amendment again then it's out of the NFA completely so no tax and no ATF form, no background check other than NICS for the 4473 when you pick it up. But still iffy in gray zone states because no registration paper in your hand as defense against prosecution.

Who gets stamps anymore?

With my first suppressors I got in 2022 that I submitted on paper that took 14 months to clear.... I got actual stamps with those. All the e-file stuff gets just electronic copies.

#RealStampMasterrace.

 

[lash]

With my first suppressors I got in 2022 that I submitted on paper that took 14 months to clear.... I got actual stamps with those. All the e-file stuff gets just electronic copies.

#RealStampMasterrace.

Same.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Why when discussing this specific issue is every one suddenly using the word parliamentarian??

Never before can I recall it being used to describe our house of representatives, what gives? Am I missing something?

I thought this was the USA not a British colony.

 

[doubloon]

With my first suppressors I got in 2022 that I submitted on paper that took 14 months to clear.... I got actual stamps with those. All the e-file stuff gets just electronic copies.

#RealStampMasterrace.

Yeah, back when I started my first stamps took about a week. I had one that took 2 weeks early on because I botched one of the forms, forgot to sign it or something, so the turnaround included them sending it back to me for correction and me sending it back corrected.

The only NFA I have that doesn't have a physical stamp is one I decided to do by e-form using a kiosk. I think a SS kiosk. I'm guessing a lot of people are doing eforms these days.

 

[doubloon]

Why when discussing this specific issue is every one suddenly using the word parliamentarian??

Never before can I recall it being used to describe our house of representatives, what gives? Am I missing something?

This is the first time something "we" care about has ever been struck by the parliamentarian.

A bunch of dem shit got struck by the parliamentarian during the Brandon admin but we didn't care. The crybaby liberal dems lit up the internet over it back then the same way 2A people are doing it now.

The sad part about what this has turned into is "we" light up the internet every time there's a rumor of a "change" and rarely is the "change" described completely or correctly. It's getting just as bad as all the corgi puddles every time there was an Epstein or JFK file "update". But at least nobody is talking about Epstein or JFK anymore.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

My first stamp in 1977 took 53 days & they stayed under 90 until about 2006 when it started to stretch out to months & years. Wish I had been as smart as Neil Smith who lost count on the DIAS & trigger packs he did back when. At one time he can sell a hand full of sears & trigger packs and buy 134s all day long if he wanted to, plus fed them as much as he wanted to as well,...

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Andrew Clyde from Georgia just added the entire original language of the SBR and Suppressor back to the BBB. FINGERS CROSSED!!!

Just so I am clear on the current status, has Rep. Clyde "added" or simply proposed? A single Representative cannot add anything by himself.

 

[doubloon]

Just so I am clear on the current status, has Rep. Clyde "added" or simply proposed? A single Representative cannot add anything by himself.

I've slept since yesterday so I've lost track of the actual status.

To the best of my understanding it is an amendment to the bill. But yes, there is a gray area where it's "proposed" before a vote to pass.

Clyde is in the House but I *thought* the bill was currently waiting for vote in the Senate. Anything Clyde submits/proposes doesn't affect the Senate, it would have to go back to the House for anything Clyde does to matter.

I *believe* senators or congressmen can submit amendments (senators when in the senate and congressmen when in the house), how much support they need to do so I'm not sure, maybe just someone to "second" or "sponsor" it.
Actual amendment statuses can be dug through here for the senate I think https://www.congress.gov/amendment/...360/amendments-to-this-amendment?pageSize=250
Actuall amendment statuses can be dug through for the house I think https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1/amendments

Submitted amendments don't show the purpose in the list, proposed amendments show the purpose.

Then they propose it, then there is a roll call vote, effectively a "vote to vote" maybe. I think a roll call vote requires 1/5th yea to move to the next level or get attached or some shit level of detail I don't want to dig into before it's eligible to be voted to pass. See votearamas https://www.senate.gov/legislative/votearama.htm

Once there is some non-commital amount of agreement on what amendments can or cannot be attached to the bill then they all vote on whether or not to pass the bill to the next level with the amendments that were noncommittally agreed to be included.

If the Senate or parliamentarian changes it before they pass it then it makes another swirl around the senate toilet bowl or goes back to the House who has their own version of the same toilet bowl otherwise it goes to DJT.

In between EVERY FUCKING amendment and EVERY FUCKING vote SOME FUCKING drama queen ew-toober makes video saying "WE WON" or "IT'S THE END OF THE GUN WORLD UNLESS YOU CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN" and every fucking one of those videos says something different and they hang around for days even though the situation is changing virtually every day and sometimes twice a day. It's worse than the Epstein and JFK threads where every time somebody says "files" in the media people get a chubby.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Yeah, back when I started my first stamps took about a week. I had one that took 2 weeks early on because I botched one of the forms, forgot to sign it or something, so the turnaround included them sending it back to me for correction and me sending it back corrected.

The only NFA I have that doesn't have a physical stamp is one I decided to do by e-form using a kiosk. I think a SS kiosk. I'm guessing a lot of people are doing eforms these days.

That’s gonna be my route going forward. Still think the stamps are cool tho.

 

[lash]

That’s gonna be my route going forward. Still think the stamps are cool tho.

Me too. As a kid into numismatics, I had quite the stamp collection. Things like tax stamps and hunting/fishing license stamps can be worth something depending upon a whole slew of facts and desires.

 

[doubloon]

That’s gonna be my route going forward. Still think the stamps are cool tho.

I'm going to hold on to my physical stamps a while longer then maybe eventually auction them off to stamp collectors as the market supply dries up.

They used to go for $50 or $75 to over $100 depending on the stamp type. They're worth more to the collector if they're still attached to the original form.

 

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

 

[doubloon]

View attachment 8720210

Ha!

Crazy NC laws.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Clyde is in the House but I *thought* the bill was currently waiting for vote in the Senate. Anything Clyde submits/proposes doesn't affect the Senate, it would have to go back to the House for anything Clyde does to matter.

LOL, I get it - hard to keep track.

BUT, the bill passed the Senate yesterday with JD Vance casting a tie breaking vote, and it is in the House.

https://www.courthousenews.com/hoping-to-overcome-gop-squabbling-house-takes-up-trump-budget-reconciliation/

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Trump is meeting right now with House Republicans opposed to the bill.

https://rollcall.com/2025/07/02/trump-republicans-budget-reconciliation-bill/

As members began shuffling in and out of the White House, the House moved one step closer to crucial votes on the sprawling measure.

The House agreed, 212-211, to consider the rule that would guide floor consideration of the Senate’s reconciliation measure. GOP leaders had scheduled a floor vote on that rule for early afternoon on a pressure-packed day on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

Notably, House Majority Whip Tom Emmer told Fox Business on Tuesday that GOP leaders did not plan to allow amendments to the Senate version because Trump sent word that he wanted to sign the measure “as is.”

So there you have it - they plan not to allow amendments. We'll see how that goes. Apparently they passed the rule by one vote. The majority whip says they plan to pass it tomorrow with no changes from the Senate version. Wishful thinking?

 

[doubloon]

BUT, a version of the bill passed the Senate yesterday

Trump is meeting right now with House Republicans opposed to a version of the bill

And therein lies the rub. It's not "the" bill that gets passed until it's "the" bill available for Trump to sign.

So far, the house and the senate each pass a version of the bill that's not the same version passed previously it stays on the merry go round going back and forth between house and senate never reaching Trump's desk.

So there you have it - they plan not to allow amendments

The plan is not to allow Senate amendments. What about House amendments?

Notably, House Majority Whip Tom Emmer told Fox Business on Tuesday that GOP leaders did not plan to allow amendments to the Senate version because Trump sent word that he wanted to sign the measure “as is.”

Has a version of the bill been passed by the House yet? Does it include removal of the suppressor, SB-things and AOW things from the NFA?

I'm asking because I haven't tried to look it up yet.

ETA trying to answer my own question, I think this is the "house passed" version and it does include the verbiage most of us think we want for now

So if this is what has actually been passed by the house and if it will be passed "as is" by the senate yes but how likely will the setnate be to pass it "as is"?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1/text

SEC. 70436. REDUCTION OF TRANSFER AND MANUFACTURING TAXES FOR CERTAIN
DEVICES.

(a) Transfer Tax.--Section 5811(a) is amended to read as follows:
``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid on firearms
transferred a tax at the rate of--
``(1) $200 for each firearm transferred in the case of a
machinegun or a destructive device, and
``(2) $0 for any firearm transferred which is not described
in paragraph (1).''.
(b) Making Tax.--Section 5821(a) is amended to read as follows:
``(a) Rate.--There shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the
making of a firearm a tax at the rate of--
``(1) $200 for each firearm made in the case of a
machinegun or a destructive device, and
``(2) $0 for any firearm made which is not described in
paragraph (1).''.
(c) Conforming Amendment.--Section 4182(a) is amended by adding at
the end the following: ``For purposes of the preceding sentence, any
firearm described in section 5811(a)(2) shall be deemed to be a firearm
on which the tax provided by section 5811 has been paid.''
(d) Effective Date.--The amendments made by this section shall
apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date
of the enactment of this Act.

 

[mosin46]

nothing MOL than a lot of political theater.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

The plan is not to allow Senate amendments. What about House amendments?

I think the plan is not to allow House amendments and agree to the Senate version. Read the link I posted above on this issue.

Has a version of the bill been passed by the House yet? Does it include removal of the suppressor, SB-things and AOW things from the NFA?

I'm asking because I haven't tried to look it up yet.

I assume you are not asking about the original House version that went over to the Senate, so, no. The plan is to pass the bill tomorrow, with zero amendments, so it will be the Senate version as-is. This is what the President is asking and what the majority whip says he thinks he can deliver tomorrow.

I am not so sure he can deliver the votes, as there are too many in the Freedom Caucus opposed to the Senate version.

 

[doubloon]

I think the plan

I think we are on the same page, I edited the previous post you quoted to add a link to what looks like the current house bill text which at the top of the page says and the version of the text is dated as 7/1/2025

The bill text and summary for the House-passed version have been updated pursuant to H.Res. 492.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1/text

 

[Longshot231]

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Pray someone has the balls to kill this bill.

 

[lash]

Nope!

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Vibe shift in House as Trump, GOP leaders begin to flip votes - Roll Call

Republican opposition to the GOP's "big, beautiful" reconciliation bill appeared to be softening Wednesday night.

rollcall.com

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Republican Holdouts Stand Firm Against Trump’s Reconciliation Bill — For Now

Republicans held a vote open Wednesday and broke a record. They may break the record again as they twist arms.

www.notus.org

After more than four hours of holding the rule vote open, the tally was stuck at 207-217, with five Republicans joining all Democrats in voting “no.” Another eight Republicans abstained from the vote.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

https://punchbowl.news/article/house/house-republicans-johnson-white-house-reconciliation/

Top House Republicans sent GOP lawmakers back to their offices while they try to solve their concerns on this end and as Trump works the phones from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

The delay doesn’t mean Trump and Johnson won’t round up the 217 votes they need to pass the massive reconciliation package. It just means they’re not there yet, and the high-pressure whip operation needs to keep grinding on. OMB Director Russ Vought came to the Capitol on Wednesday to lobby members directly.

Trump hosted a number of House Republicans at the White House earlier today, including Reps. Chip Roy (R-Texas), Ralph Norman (R-S.C.), Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.), Stephanie Bice (R-Okla.), Mike Flood (R-Neb.), Dusty Johnson (R-S.D.), David Valadao (R-Calif.), Dan Newhouse (R-Wash.), Mike Lawler (R-N.Y.), Andy Ogles (R-Tenn.), Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), Rob Bresnahan (R-Pa.) and Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.).

Trump has a way of melting away Republican opposition. He promises executive actions outside the bill and convinces GOP lawmakers that they are making a wise political decision by siding with him.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Vibe shift in House as Trump, GOP leaders begin to flip votes - Roll Call

Republican opposition to the GOP's "big, beautiful" reconciliation bill appeared to be softening Wednesday night.

rollcall.com

They are just promising more carrot & stick tricks later, that will never see the light of day. I hope they kill that POS and have to do a total rewrite.