I use Plan A on all of my rifles with good results. As far as a difference in sound reduction I dont think it really matters in rifle cans. However I think it may matter in PCC cans. A 3 lug almost completely fille the blast chamber in a smallish can like an Omega 9K or R9. That could definitely make it louder than direct thread.
Suppressors Mount or direct thread?
- Thread starter TonyAngel
- Start date
Not rocket science but sure as hell not anywhere near easy. lol But hey you do what works for you.
I run a Hydrogen K 6.5 on my 6.5x55 hunting rifle, DT with a Wolfpack recessed hub mount. No audible difference between a normal hub mount and the recessed one.
On a bigger can I wouldn't even think about it, but the Hydro K isn't big (smaller than a Hux Flow 9k) and the difference in volume reduction between the normal and recessed hub mount isn't insignificant.
Also didn't notice any difference with a Sandman S, DT vs Keymo brake vs Area419 universal mount on a 300WM.
All you gotta say is;
“I went direct thread because I’m cheap. But, because DT can walk loose and my time is effectively free, I use rock set and wait the recommended 1 day to let it cure when installing a suppressor. And, it’s super easy to remove too. All I need is a stove, a pot, a tumbler, some water, a strap wrench, a reaction rod, and a vice.”
As you can see, when properly laid out, the elegance of the simplicity is impossible to ignore.
“I went direct thread because I’m cheap. But, because DT can walk loose and my time is effectively free, I use rock set and wait the recommended 1 day to let it cure when installing a suppressor. And, it’s super easy to remove too. All I need is a stove, a pot, a tumbler, some water, a strap wrench, a reaction rod, and a vice.”
As you can see, when properly laid out, the elegance of the simplicity is impossible to ignore.
Until you want to clean your rifle and end up with a can full of patches lol
I've gotta be honest, the main attraction of DT for me is length and weight. A while back, I got it in my head that I was going to put together that one rifle. The rig that would be my goto 90% of the time.
When I was done, I wound up with an 11.5" pig. So, I went back and re-thought things. I went with a barrel with a more modern profile. I canned the riflespeed gas block, i went with a lighter light. I went from a gen 2 razor to an NX8. A few ounces here and there and was able to get to a rig that weighed less than 9 lbs.
Going DT can save you some weight where it matters the most.
When I was done, I wound up with an 11.5" pig. So, I went back and re-thought things. I went with a barrel with a more modern profile. I canned the riflespeed gas block, i went with a lighter light. I went from a gen 2 razor to an NX8. A few ounces here and there and was able to get to a rig that weighed less than 9 lbs.
Going DT can save you some weight where it matters the most.
Yeah a DT can save a few ounces and also a little length. I use DT on my precision rifles and the Xeno on my gas guns.
Oh, man. I went out to the short range this morning to confirm my zero for my trip to the long range tomorrow. The guy next to me was shooting a 16" with a Fat Cat on it. Wow, that is a good sounding suppressor. On a 16", it was actually what I would call hearing safe in that setting.
Geez, I'm checking my email every 10 minutes hoping I get the nod before my gun shop closes. Kind of made me want to put together a lighter 16" rig just to run the suppressor on. Hmmm, maybe I see a V Seven barrel in my future.
Geez, I'm checking my email every 10 minutes hoping I get the nod before my gun shop closes. Kind of made me want to put together a lighter 16" rig just to run the suppressor on. Hmmm, maybe I see a V Seven barrel in my future.
There's no such thing as "enough" suppressors. There's only "not enough money to have them all".
Goes for rifles too, because a suppressor without a rifle to be on is just a "anything's a dildo if you're brave enough" with a pressure release vent.
I’ve went for muzzle devices on all my cans thus far and do experience the carbon lock can from time to time. The rc2 had to get shot off (which was sorta fun). For prs I would much rather and will run direct thread for my next can. I clean the crown and prefer not having to deal with messing with a loctited muzzle device. The Tbac dominus can has been a joy to shoot , just would prefer not to mess with the mount
Woohoo. I woke up to an email from the ATF. Application approved!! Figures, my LGS is closed today. Gotta wait till tomorrow. Man, I won't be able to sleep tonight.
I've gotta figure out a way to get out of work tomorrow.
I've gotta figure out a way to get out of work tomorrow.
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- Nov 3, 2010
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Length and weight. Lol.
Suppressor attached to Q Cherrybomb brake…
I didn’t measure it, but that’s gotta be like- at least- 1/16” added to the length of the suppressed rifle. And, listed weight is 2 oz.
Suppressor attached to Q Cherrybomb brake…
I didn’t measure it, but that’s gotta be like- at least- 1/16” added to the length of the suppressed rifle. And, listed weight is 2 oz.
Yeah. Length amd weight. I don't know which suppressor you're running, but your mount setup looks like it adds at least an inch.
If an inch isn't a big deal, then why not 12.5 instead of 11.5 or why pin and weld a 14.5? Because it all adds up. I guess you're one of those guys whose answer is to work out more and you never get tired.
Any hub compatible suppressor is going to need an adapter. They all add something to the total length of a suppressor. When I get back from this trip, I’ll spin a thunderchicken on to this rifle. It’s built for that brake, and swallows it like a whore. Basically no added length from the brake, or a nonexistent adapter.
I have a very minimalist direct thread hub adapter and it still adds something 1/2” to total length of a suppressor. (I’m guessing from several hours away.) https://yhm.net/suppressor-accessories/hub-direct-thread-mount-system-yhm-2189/ Maybe it’s as little as 3/8”, but it’s not nothing. It’s the cost of doing business with the hub system. Sure, you could buy a non-hub, direct thread only can, but you’re stuck with that one thread pitch. It’s a 30 cal can, but you want to put it on a 5.56 rifle? Too bad. Got a hunting rifle that you want to suppress, but it has an odd ball thread pitch? Too bad.
I just looked up the Rearden atlas adapter, in my image above. It adds 1/2” to the length of the can. Their new gen 2 looks to be even more minimalist.
“Mounts and adapters are expensive” is a valid reason to direct thread.
“My rifle is totally unshootable because it is 1/2” longer and 2 oz heavier” is not.
I have a very minimalist direct thread hub adapter and it still adds something 1/2” to total length of a suppressor. (I’m guessing from several hours away.) https://yhm.net/suppressor-accessories/hub-direct-thread-mount-system-yhm-2189/ Maybe it’s as little as 3/8”, but it’s not nothing. It’s the cost of doing business with the hub system. Sure, you could buy a non-hub, direct thread only can, but you’re stuck with that one thread pitch. It’s a 30 cal can, but you want to put it on a 5.56 rifle? Too bad. Got a hunting rifle that you want to suppress, but it has an odd ball thread pitch? Too bad.
I just looked up the Rearden atlas adapter, in my image above. It adds 1/2” to the length of the can. Their new gen 2 looks to be even more minimalist.
“Mounts and adapters are expensive” is a valid reason to direct thread.
“My rifle is totally unshootable because it is 1/2” longer and 2 oz heavier” is not.
- Nov 3, 2010
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You can actually get flush mounts for hub adapters that don’t add any length to the suppressor. They will butt all the way up to the shoulder on the threads
Ooooo cool! I was wondering why the adapters I saw (during a cursory glance) stuck out at all. Good to see there’s someone making a flat one.
As far as length being a problem, where I was going earlier with add-on adapters downsides is getting the gun, suppressor attached, into a particular case and/or car. I like throwing the rifles in sideways in the 4Runner (56”-57” width max).
I’ve edited my post to make that clear.
Outside of that, I can’t see having an inch longer gun making much of a diff.
- Nov 3, 2010
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Same boat for me, I have some mounts that are flush and some that add a good bit to the rifle. I don’t think either one has a REAL advantage over the other. They both do what they are supposed to do.
Same opinion goes to direct thread versus some type of QD. They both work and I use both
Ecco Machine makes some great HUB DT mounts and other manufacturer compatible HUB mounts. I have a few of their TBAC CB HUB mounts and they are fantastic.
When I first started this thread and asked the question of whether a DT mount vs a QD mount might jave an effect on suppression, there was something that I didn't consider. Some mount and/or muzzle device combos may impede on the internal volume of the suppressor.
I just pucked up my fat cat. I like the SRX mounting system. With the mini brake and srx mount, it's pretty compact. I could go with a wolfpack recessed DT mount, but it's only gonna save me .5" and 1.5 oz. I think I'd rather have the convenience of the QD.
I just pucked up my fat cat. I like the SRX mounting system. With the mini brake and srx mount, it's pretty compact. I could go with a wolfpack recessed DT mount, but it's only gonna save me .5" and 1.5 oz. I think I'd rather have the convenience of the QD.
I like the srx system, but I'm only using it because it came with my Fat Cat. I like it because it has a very small footprint and the mini muzzle brake eats up a minimal amount of the suppressors internal volume. Still, if I was choosing a mount ecosystem, I'd be looking at plan b. There are a lot more options. That's not to say that I wouldn't have chosen srx. I'm just saying I'd take a hard look at plan b.
Hey all. I just wanted to revisit this topic as I'm getting ready to start doing some experimenting.
I now have my 3rd can in limbo.
I've gone back through this thread and after learning (I think) a few things, I believe my original question should have been regarding the effects of increasing or decreasing the internal volume of the suppressor. Some mount and muzzle device combos eat up a lot of internal space. Some actually add what looks to be a significant amount of internal volume. I mean, it looks like using a Liberty Precision Machine mini brake with an Atlas XL could be a way to make your can act like its an inch longer.
I'm just having fun with it. The R9 is a cool little can for what it is and the Fat Cat has exceeded all of my expectations with what it came with right out of the box.
I stumbled across the ZRO DT mount at OCL and it was CHEAP, so that gonna be my first experiment in adding a bit of internal volume.
While I'm waiting for my Vox S, I'm gonna hunt around for an Atlas mount. I'm just not sure if I want the standard one or go all the way with the big honkin mount.
I now have my 3rd can in limbo.
I've gone back through this thread and after learning (I think) a few things, I believe my original question should have been regarding the effects of increasing or decreasing the internal volume of the suppressor. Some mount and muzzle device combos eat up a lot of internal space. Some actually add what looks to be a significant amount of internal volume. I mean, it looks like using a Liberty Precision Machine mini brake with an Atlas XL could be a way to make your can act like its an inch longer.
I'm just having fun with it. The R9 is a cool little can for what it is and the Fat Cat has exceeded all of my expectations with what it came with right out of the box.
I stumbled across the ZRO DT mount at OCL and it was CHEAP, so that gonna be my first experiment in adding a bit of internal volume.
While I'm waiting for my Vox S, I'm gonna hunt around for an Atlas mount. I'm just not sure if I want the standard one or go all the way with the big honkin mount.
I hear ya. My initial impulse was to just go direct thread, but I tend to be a bit OCD and sometimes I get a thought in my head that I will fixate on. Since suppressors are new to me, they are what I'm fixating on.
I scoured the internet looking for info on the topic of increasing the internal volume of the blast chamber, but there isn't anything definitive and all of the info on the topic of brake vs flash hider is all opinion based.
I do not have the math to lend any support to my argument, but it seems to me that increasing the internal volume of the blast chamber should have an effect similar to that of adding a reflex to a suppressor.
I also think that an argument can be made for the use of direct thread mounts. It seems to me that the blast baffle is intended to take the hit and is built for it. When I inspect the inside of my cans, it seems that a muzzle brake or flash hider steers the blast away from the blast baffle toward the less robust stainless of the body. You also have to consider the amount of volume that is being eaten up by the muzzle device.
Eh, just thoughts running through my head. I am gonna do some testing though.
The Suppressor Stages of Ownership (SSO)
Help me Comprehend Silencer Advice
You cared enough to waste your own time to post that you dont care. Thats such an odd way of demonstrating how much you dont care. The rest of us just ignore stuff like that. Congratulations. You cared enough NOT to ignore it.
www.snipershide.com
Addendum 1 covers mounts.
I will update the posts in the link now that cans are being approved fast, and that yes, as I predicted, my journey to secondary retention ended in sadness lol.
Like a moth to flame, we are usually slaves to our true natures.
For my first suppressor I went Liberty Precision Anthem S2. Added a Rearden atlas XL mount to it. If it werent for the heat in the can I could swap it in seconds.
It fits my
Howa 1500 6.5cm
Ar10 308
Ar15 300blk
Ar15 5.56
I went Rearden/ LPM muzzle devices. I feel the money on muzzle devices to switch quickly is well worth the money.
It fits my
Howa 1500 6.5cm
Ar10 308
Ar15 300blk
Ar15 5.56
I went Rearden/ LPM muzzle devices. I feel the money on muzzle devices to switch quickly is well worth the money.
You want more blast chamber? Ecco has got you
How often are you moving your cans around that 4 seconds vs 7 is worth a hundreds of dollars and extra weight on every rifle?
You need a suppressor cover and no worry about heat when swapping. Take a look at the Rifles Only HAD cover.
I built all my rifles, outside of the howa. i was going to buy a flash hider of some sort anyway. Sure they arent cheap but i think its a good system. When i go shoot with friends ill bring a few of them so I do swap around a decent amount.
I have a pretty good cover. It works really well just after 100 rounds on the ar15 it grts a bit spicy! Im sure if i also wore gloves it would be fine lol.
Hey guys. I have a question regarding my YHM R9 and its direct thread mount. I figured I'd ask here rather than start a new thread.
Instruction manual says to tighten the DT adapter to the barrel "hand tight only." Problem is, it keeps walking. Hand tighten, shoot 5. Tighten again. Shoot a mag, check it again. Paranoia kept me checking it, until I got to a point where I quit checking it. 200 rounds later, it came loose.
How much torque can I use to tighten this thing? Why does yhm say hand tight only?
I'd assume 20-30 ft-lbs, but, don't want to assume anything.
Instruction manual says to tighten the DT adapter to the barrel "hand tight only." Problem is, it keeps walking. Hand tighten, shoot 5. Tighten again. Shoot a mag, check it again. Paranoia kept me checking it, until I got to a point where I quit checking it. 200 rounds later, it came loose.
How much torque can I use to tighten this thing? Why does yhm say hand tight only?
I'd assume 20-30 ft-lbs, but, don't want to assume anything.
Is it this? Or something similar?
And to be absolutely sure, the Hub bit isn’t loosening, but the DT is coming off the barrel, correct?
Are you shooting on a semiautomatic subgun? Semis seem to loosen cans way more often than bolt guns do. I like secondary retention cans for semis. For a 9mm, I have a tri-lug adapter.
Anyway, I see no reason why 20-30ft/lbs would mess anything up unless you have a thin barrel. There is a possibility of trumpeting the crown area if you are too aggressive with a thin barrel and use a direct thread attachment (going by memory here, I believe that’s correct).
You need enough meat on the barrel to avoid that.
Right. The DT adapter is coming loose from the barrel.Is it this? Or something similar?
And to be absolutely sure, the Hub bit isn’t loosening, but the DT is coming off the barrel, correct?
Are you shooting on a semiautomatic subgun? Semis seem to loosen cans way more often than bolt guns do. I like secondary retention cans for semis. For a 9mm, I have a tri-lug adapter.
Anyway, I see no reason why 20-30ft/lbs would mess anything up unless you have a thin barrel. There is a possibility of trumpeting the crown area if you are too aggressive with a thin barrel and use a direct thread attachment (going by memory here, I believe that’s correct).
You need enough meat on the barrel to avoid that.
Yeah, all of the thought I was giving to the benefits of DT over some sort of tapered QD setup was a waste of time. I run my suppressors on ARs most of the time. Being able to run them on my bolt guns has just been an added benefit.
The DT adapter I'm using is being run on an AR9 barrel and I typically put about 20 ft-lbs of torque on the adapter to can connection, but the little warning in the manual about going only handtight to the barrel gave me pause.
I do have to admit that there isn't a whole lot of meat at the muzzle of the barrel. I just torqued it to 10 ft-lbs. I'll see if that holds.
Yeah, I’m a fan of DT on bolt guns because it makes life easier (and cheaper). Even bore cleaning is easier without an adapter dirtying a patch up and making you wonder if the bore is clean.
But on AR’s my cans work loose and I’m not even a fast fire kind of guy.
I did try some secondary retention cans despite myself, just to see what they’re about. Wasn’t impressed with Surefire’s (gas leakage) but the TBAC SR system is nice.
You could try the DT trick of firing 5 quick-ish shots and loosen then snap the can back on before going to secondary retention. That did improve things for me, but didn’t fully alleviate problems. Maybe it’ll work for you.
Some generalities I’ve come across in my suppressor journey. Typically a good MD will have superior retention to DT. I initially used plan A and it worked well with only occasional backing off, but I could NEVER get the can off after shooting, Then the HUXWRX has been perfect, no backing off and easily removed even when hot with the wrench. Lastly Charlie has been excellent in every sense especially my confidence in it being seated appropriately the first time.
Typically a QD (especially muzzle brake) will have better suppression and less baffle erosion. There is a caveat… muzzle device can’t be closer than 0.3” to the baffle. Pew Science and Silencer Student have numerous tests showing this.
That being said I thoroughly clean threads and Rocksett my mounts. All that being said, if I’m buying a muzzle device I buy a flash hider. If a rifle has a brake mounted I will only shoot it suppressed.
This has been my experience.
Typically a QD (especially muzzle brake) will have better suppression and less baffle erosion. There is a caveat… muzzle device can’t be closer than 0.3” to the baffle. Pew Science and Silencer Student have numerous tests showing this.
That being said I thoroughly clean threads and Rocksett my mounts. All that being said, if I’m buying a muzzle device I buy a flash hider. If a rifle has a brake mounted I will only shoot it suppressed.
This has been my experience.
Yeah, I tried that. Didn't work. Maybe it's due to the lack meat at the end of the barrel. Whatever the problem is, I've lost confidence in DT. I run the YHM SRX taper mounts on my other ARs. Even when attaching the suppressor with everything cold, I just spin on the suppressor and give it a little bump with the wrench. I've done 500+ rounds days like that without a problem.
At this moment, my big decision is whether to stick with SRX or move to Plan B before I get too invested in SRX. I like SRX, but dollar for dollar, Plan B is the better deal with more options.
I thought about Rocksetting, but I'm a small guy and, consequently, prefer shorter rigs. Specifically 11.5s. I also run Riflespeed gas blocks. Rocksetting would make maintenance a real PITA.
I'm with you on the whole muzzle brake vs flash hider thing, but it seems that since I got into suppressors, I never shoot without one. We'll see what happens when the thrill wears off.
As it is, I'm considering putting together a 7.5" setup though. A 7.5" will get me to a super handy setup so I can have my cake and eat it too.
Shoot, it just occurred to me that YHM may have warned to hand tighten only specifically for the reason I suspect I'm having a bit of a problem. To avoid over torquing on 9mm barrels.
7.5” AR15?! You are WAY more of a man than I am. Granted I’m sometimes mistaken as a towering giant at my lofty 5’9, I couldn’t handle an 11.5” with full size 7.5” traditional baffle suppressor with electronic ear pro. That’s a total length of 19”. By comparison a friends 13.9” with Flow 556K (which works out to a similar length) was far more comfortable.
My shortest rifles are a 13.9” 6.5 Grendel which wears a Flow 762 and an 8” 300 black out which I’m rebuilding with an 11.3” barrel that will wear a SilencerCo Velos LBP 762. The 8” barrel was a cheap Aero barrel and was pleasant with supers with the Fllow, but I’m wanting to shoot more subs and I wanted to use a Geissele MK4 in DDC which is 9.3”. I know… priorities.
Rocksett is a bit of a pain. I just stick the mounting device over a pot of boiling water for 10 minutes and it comes off, but I wouldn’t want to do it with any frequency.
Lol. I'm 5'4". I run K cans. Well, I run YHM Fat Cats on my 11.5s. I'm telling you. The Fat Cat doesn't get nearly the attention that it should. With its included mounting system, my overall barrel length is just under 16". Very manageable. As for the sound reduction, all I can say is that unless I'm in an enclosed space, it is very comfortable. In an open, outdoor setting ears aren't needed.
Yes, it is a high back pressure can, but a Riflespeed gas block, A5H2 buffer and a Tubbs flatwire spring make it a non issue. If you ever find yourself getting ready to pull the trigger on something like a Polonium, don't do it until you check out a Fat Cat. The YHM may not read more quiet on a meter, but the low tone is actually pleasing to the ear. It downright sounds cool.
I am thinking about a 7.5. I want to get to something as close as I can get to an unsuppressed 11.5 in length. I just don't know which suppressor.
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I ran a 7.5 inch 7.62x39 for a while. It didn’t bark any louder than my 10.3 556 does
