Tactical Games Scope

[couch000]

I posted a thread a few months ago but thought I'd start a new thread regarding going from a 1-8 ATACR to a 3-18 scope for the tactical games. For reference I'm 55 and the eyesight ain't what it used to be. We typically shoot most of our stages with rifle anywhere from 50-100/200 yards and a couple stages out to 300-600. We also typically have one 2 gun type stage each day so an offset red dot is needed. All this varies per competition. A lot of guys have started going up to the 18x range with an offset red dot. Precision is a paramount as each miss is a 10 second penalty added to your total workout time. Advantages are you can see your target better and see your misses. With an 8x it's hard to tell if I'm missing and/or where I'm missing at longer distances. Ability to dial on certain stages is a nice option but most of the time I'll use holdovers.

As mentioned, I have an ATACR 1-8 and just bought an Athlon Helos 2-12 to try out. I like the Helos and the reticle but worried about durability and 12x. Because if 12x is nice 18x has to be nicer. lol


I think I have it narrowed dow to a few options:

Nightforce NX8 2.5-20
Leupold Mark 5hd 3.6-18
Burris XTRIII 3.3-18

Nightforce-
Things I like:
Form factor and weight
30mm tube (I have mounts already)
Durability
20x (although I probably won't go this high)
FOV is good
Illumination

Things I potentially don't like:
Tight eye box
No locking elevation turrets.

Leupold-
Things I like:
Form factor and weight
Durability
PR2 reticle
Locking elevation turrets
Proven- Elite winner uses this along with several others

Things I don't like:
Cost- I always feel like Leupold is overpriced.
35mm tube (have to buy another mount).
FOV is small
No illumination (extra cost and not available on PR2)

Burris-
Things I like:
Form factor and weight (not shortest or lightest but still acceptable).
SCR 2 reticle- it might be a little thin but I like the overall form factor.
FOV is good
Illumination and T illumination at center of reticle
Cost- almost half of the other scopes

Things I don't like: Durability?- not sure if it's durable enough for this type of competition
Turrets?- I've heard some complaints about these
Locking turrets?- I'm not sure if this has locking turrets or not
34mm tube- I don't have an extra mount for this but lower cost makes up for it


Any thoughts on these scopes for these types of competitions is appreciated. Or are there other options I've potentially missed?

Thanks in advance!

 

[RandoPracticalShooting]

I have a mk5 and have used it pretty extensively. I think of it more as a 15x top end though because it gets dark and tight at 18x. I think if you’re looking for something to use in the 6-12/15 range that it’s a great option and you can get them used for around 1200-1500 typically.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Have you considered the NF ATACR 4-16X42? You're not giving up much if anything in mag, clarity is awesome even up on the high end, locking elevation, capped windage, and paired with the MIL-XT it's pretty tits. Used they can be found in the sub-$2K range as well. I there's a reason you see them used so much on gas guns, they flat out work.

 

[couch000]

I have a mk5 and have used it pretty extensively. I think of it more as a 15x top end though because it gets dark and tight at 18x. I think if you’re looking for something to use in the 6-12/15 range that it’s a great option and you can get them used for around 1200-1500 typically.

Do you feel hindered at all by the small FOV? Evidently PRS guys and the tactical games champ don't mind it. I think it fits the perfect form fashion for what we do. Low weight and compact.

 

[couch000]

Have you considered the NF ATACR 4-16X42? You're not giving up much if anything in mag, clarity is awesome even up on the high end, locking elevation, capped windage, and paired with the MIL-XT it's pretty tits. Used they can be found in the sub-$2K range as well. I there's a reason you see them used so much on gas guns, they flat out work.

I have looked at the ATACR 4-16 and know it's really good. What holds me back is the cost. Other than that I think it's a great option. I'm always nervous to buy something used off the classifieds that expensive. I know people do it all the time though. I usually try to shop the used/demo selection at eurooptic if I can find what I'm looking for there.

 

[beetroot]

Do you feel hindered at all by the small FOV? Evidently PRS guys and the tactical games champ don't mind it. I think it fits the perfect form fashion for what we do. Low weight and compact.

Personal preference with FOV.

If all things are equal I prefer wide FOV.
I recently switched the scope on my rimfire from a XTR3 to a Delta Stryker despite having a worse FOV because the glass was better.

In your shoes I'd try find a used XTR3i in the buy/sell section, the 3-18 seems to be hit or miss in the glass department.
By buying used if you are disappointed in the glass you can on sell and not take a hit if you decide to sell again.

 

[couch000]

Personal preference with FOV.

If all things are equal I prefer wide FOV.
I recently switched the scope on my rimfire from a XTR3 to a Delta Stryker despite having a worse FOV because the glass was better.

In your shoes I'd try find a used XTR3i in the buy/sell section, the 3-18 seems to be hit or miss in the glass department.
By buying used if you are disappointed in the glass you can on sell and not take a hit if you decide to sell again.

Do you think the Burris will be durable enough for the tactical games? Our equipment gets banged around quite a bit. Thanks!

 

[RandoPracticalShooting]

Do you feel hindered at all by the small FOV? Evidently PRS guys and the tactical games champ don't mind it. I think it fits the perfect form fashion for what we do. Low weight and compact.

I don’t personally. I have used it in PRS matches on 6.5 gas guns, shot out to a mile with it, ran it on 5.56 guns for the tactical sniper series, and other mixed use all together. FOV wasn’t something I noticed much because I also ran a top mounted dot to aid in not hunting through the magnified optic for targets.

The ATACR 4-16 someone mentioned is a great option as well. I had a guy show up to a precision carbine course I taught and he did very well.

 

[Entropicitis]

You should look at some of the Leupold Mark 4 offerings

 

[flogxal]

How big are the 600yds targets?

I like Trijicon Credo 2.5-15x42 with MRAD Precision dot reticle, used it in 2-day Scoped Carbine class at Ridgeline with offset RDS and it worked great. I've used the larger Credo 4-16x for regional PRS on a 20" gas gun, same MRAD Precision dot reticle.

I have a Delta Stryker 3.5-21x that I've used on gas guns, with and without offset RDS. W/o RDS I used it in a regional PRS match, liked it a lot there and can imagine using it in tactical games w/ RDS. It's a little hefty at 28oz but compact, so it balances pretty well.

 

[beetroot]

Do you think the Burris will be durable enough for the tactical games? Our equipment gets banged around quite a bit. Thanks!

I'd have thought so, I banged mine around a bit and never had it loose zero or broke anything.

I think most of the scopes in this price bracket will be more than durable enough.

 

[couch000]

Personal preference with FOV.

If all things are equal I prefer wide FOV.
I recently switched the scope on my rimfire from a XTR3 to a Delta Stryker despite having a worse FOV because the glass was better.

In your shoes I'd try find a used XTR3i in the buy/sell section, the 3-18 seems to be hit or miss in the glass department.
By buying used if you are disappointed in the glass you can on sell and not take a hit if you decide to sell again.

Thanks! Seems like the Burris is great bang for the buck and you can usually find them fairly cheap compared to the Leupold and NF. I feel like I'm leaning towards the Leupold at this point. It just seems to fit what we do and I like the PR2 reticle (even though it's non-illuminated). Might sell my Zeiss 6-36 I have on a bolt action since I never shoot that gun nor do I really have a place to stretch it out.

 

[couch000]

I don’t personally. I have used it in PRS matches on 6.5 gas guns, shot out to a mile with it, ran it on 5.56 guns for the tactical sniper series, and other mixed use all together. FOV wasn’t something I noticed much because I also ran a top mounted dot to aid in not hunting through the magnified optic for targets.

The ATACR 4-16 someone mentioned is a great option as well. I had a guy show up to a precision carbine course I taught and he did very well.

The FOV of the Mark 5HD probably isn't something I would've even noticed had I not done a deep dive into the specs of 1000 scopes in this category. lol I've looked at the ATACR but it's $500-$900 more than the Mark 5HD and longer and heavier. There's something to be said about a 3-18 that's only 12" long and 26 oz. I think that's why it's popular in the tactical games.

 

[couch000]

You should look at some of the Leupold Mark 4 offerings

I have looked at the Mark 4HD but they are like 4.5" longer than the Mark 5HD.

 

[couch000]

How big are the 600yds targets?

I like Trijicon Credo 2.5-15x42 with MRAD Precision dot reticle, used it in 2-day Scoped Carbine class at Ridgeline with offset RDS and it worked great. I've used the larger Credo 4-16x for regional PRS on a 20" gas gun, same MRAD Precision dot reticle.

I have a Delta Stryker 3.5-21x that I've used on gas guns, with and without offset RDS. W/o RDS I used it in a regional PRS match, liked it a lot there and can imagine using it in tactical games w/ RDS. It's a little hefty at 28oz but compact, so it balances pretty well.

I think in the past the targets may have been about 4' x 4'. It's been over a year since we shot at that distance so it's hard to remember. I did hit it with my old NX8 1-8 though. It was at the Holt, FL complex. I think we also shot at an 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper from a mock rooftop at 300 yards if that helps.

I think the Delta Stryker might be a pretty good option. I've heard really good things about their scopes. How's the warranty on those?

 

[flogxal]

Don't know about the warranty, but they have several dealers in the USA, I think it's about five.

Also if this is tactical games where people chuck rifles into barrels I can't speak to durability there. Dropped onto barricades with a bag underneath, yes. Bumped into barricade while moving positions, yes. But I don't throw my stuff around.

Koshkin speaks pretty highly of the Stryker 1-6x, the newer Stryker 1-10x, and the 3.5-21x. I have the 1-6x and it's very nice for the $$. And already said above about 3.5-21x.

If plates are larger, you may be carrying too much weight with the 3.5-21x. Might be worth looking at Trijicon Credo 3-9x, a few reticle choices and low weight, clear glass. Slightly warm glass tint.

 

[RandoPracticalShooting]

The FOV of the Mark 5HD probably isn't something I would've even noticed had I not done a deep dive into the specs of 1000 scopes in this category. lol I've looked at the ATACR but it's $500-$900 more than the Mark 5HD and longer and heavier. There's something to be said about a 3-18 that's only 12" long and 26 oz. I think that's why it's popular in the tactical games.

I like them. I didn’t like the one I had with the TMR reticle but I grabbed one with the tremor3 and idk why but it actually seemed to be a better optical experience. Maybe the first was a lemon, maybe the 3 year gap between purchases was enough that they changed something. Regardless, I like it and it’s one scope I can’t see getting a replacement for. Especially on a relatively lightweight 556 gun.