What is your opinion of CCI pistol match? I’m using a Ruger charger 22 with a 10 inch barrel. it’s expensive but it seems to shoot so more consistent than anything else I’ve tried. Anything cheaper and comparable in accuracy and reliability? Thanks for any input.
CCI pistol match
- Thread starter Selbor
- Start date
Sadly, it's not about label preferences.
Nor is it about brand preference either.
Such thinking indicates a lack of understanding
of the process of manufacturing rimfire ammunition.
Facts to remember:
No rifle can fix poorly made ammunition.
No ammunition can fix a poorly made rifle.
No two rimfire cartridges are identical.
Components, chemistry, quantities, tolerances
vary moment by moment on the assembly line.
Some days at the factory are better than others.
What rifles "like" are uniformly well made cartridges
with consistently similar muzzle velocities.
Any variations in quality, velocity, result in trajectory differences.
If you believe all cartridges are identical as they roll off the assembly line,
well, then, I suppose brand preference is a plausible explantion of results.
When you understand that variations in components/assembly occur
then rifle preference by label is no longer a viable explanation.
You now have to look at cartridge quality as the cause of accuracy problems.
CCI is not in the business of manufacturing benchrest cartridges.
All it's 22lr roll out of the same machines, run by the same technicians,
using processes established in the last century.
That includes priming application by punch plate and squeegee.
Watch the factory tour videos.
Dropping, dumping, tumbling in drums are not how match bullets are handled.
CCI manufactures sport shooting cartridges.
Short range, off hand they do the job.
For punching center at 50 yards off the bench,
there are better options.
CCI Pistol Match, Green Tag show the same results as CCI SV
from my Lilja, and Shilen barreled, CZ's.
Chrony numbers show the same problems with velocity spread
and visual inspection of the cartridges show the same indications
of rough handling on the assembly line.
It appears we are paying extra for packaging and label differences.
Nor is it about brand preference either.
Such thinking indicates a lack of understanding
of the process of manufacturing rimfire ammunition.
Facts to remember:
No rifle can fix poorly made ammunition.
No ammunition can fix a poorly made rifle.
No two rimfire cartridges are identical.
Components, chemistry, quantities, tolerances
vary moment by moment on the assembly line.
Some days at the factory are better than others.
What rifles "like" are uniformly well made cartridges
with consistently similar muzzle velocities.
Any variations in quality, velocity, result in trajectory differences.
If you believe all cartridges are identical as they roll off the assembly line,
well, then, I suppose brand preference is a plausible explantion of results.
When you understand that variations in components/assembly occur
then rifle preference by label is no longer a viable explanation.
You now have to look at cartridge quality as the cause of accuracy problems.
CCI is not in the business of manufacturing benchrest cartridges.
All it's 22lr roll out of the same machines, run by the same technicians,
using processes established in the last century.
That includes priming application by punch plate and squeegee.
Watch the factory tour videos.
Dropping, dumping, tumbling in drums are not how match bullets are handled.
CCI manufactures sport shooting cartridges.
Short range, off hand they do the job.
For punching center at 50 yards off the bench,
there are better options.
CCI Pistol Match, Green Tag show the same results as CCI SV
from my Lilja, and Shilen barreled, CZ's.
Chrony numbers show the same problems with velocity spread
and visual inspection of the cartridges show the same indications
of rough handling on the assembly line.
It appears we are paying extra for packaging and label differences.
I wish you fellows would not use the term “Last Century.” It makes me feel so darned old. I remember when CCI rimfire first came on the market and had been shooting rimfire riles and handguns for many years before. And when someone says, “Last Century,” I always think of 1800 to 1899.
Seen those videos and it is well documented that the rounds, be it CCI, SuperX, Lapua, SK or Eley, come off the same line at their respective factories then tested and assign a grading. However, I’ve seen some pretty good matches shot with SK Standard + (as in second place out of forty-three shooters) so one never knows,
Yep it is all about finding the right ammo for YOUR firearm. Moving up in price just buys a relative increase in consistency to certain standard. I had a Case of SK rifle match that shot every bit as good as my Midas, next case was nowhere near as good.
Dead Eye, contact CCI and ask about lot grading.
I did.
They test for function. Does it go bang?
They test for safety. Is chamber pressure okay?
Not like Tenex, Match or Team.
Not like X-Act, Midas+ or CenterX.
Not like R50, Rifle Match or Target.
I did.
They test for function. Does it go bang?
They test for safety. Is chamber pressure okay?
Not like Tenex, Match or Team.
Not like X-Act, Midas+ or CenterX.
Not like R50, Rifle Match or Target.
I shoot rimefire every day so I’ve used about every ammo out there and I’ve come to one conclusion its rimefire and some guns will shoot cheap ass ammo better than the expensive match ammo.I have a S&W Victory that shoots CCI MINI MAGS 40gr the best.If i run SK ,Lupora,RSW,Eley it groups open right up .I have a CZ MTR that shoots Federal just as good as SK and Savage that will shoot anything and get tight groups.And every lot # is different and every box in a lot # varies to some point.Its rimefire nothing like center fire ammo.Chassing the rabbit!
I don't shoot groups for proof of accuracy.
Groups lie to me.
Makes me look like I am doing better than I am.
Groups wander relative to point of aim.
Actual target aggregate group size is 2 or 3 times average group size.
For that reason, shooting for score is my method of conparing accuracy.
For that reason, I reiterate:
No rifle can fix poorly made ammunition.
No ammunition can fix a poorly made rifle.
No two cartridges are identical as they roll off the assembly line.
Cartridge quality/uniformity determines results.
Try shooting for score with your rifle's "preferred" ammunition.
Not groups. What happens when punching center?
Inexpensive cartridges can't get the job done.
Too much velocity variation, too many strays.
Try it, 50 yards, for score. Compare results.
Groups lie to me.
Makes me look like I am doing better than I am.
Groups wander relative to point of aim.
Actual target aggregate group size is 2 or 3 times average group size.
For that reason, shooting for score is my method of conparing accuracy.
For that reason, I reiterate:
No rifle can fix poorly made ammunition.
No ammunition can fix a poorly made rifle.
No two cartridges are identical as they roll off the assembly line.
Cartridge quality/uniformity determines results.
Try shooting for score with your rifle's "preferred" ammunition.
Not groups. What happens when punching center?
Inexpensive cartridges can't get the job done.
Too much velocity variation, too many strays.
Try it, 50 yards, for score. Compare results.
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Actually most of us have had experience with great lots of relatively inexpensive ( SK, wolf, ect, not “bucket bullets”) that shot really well and some expensive rounds that were shit ( Eley Ultra long range ). What’s lying to you about groups that they are telling you a different story than what you think they are. Both tell you about ammo consistency, groups are about maintaining a zero over the span of 5 shots. Score is about first shot precision. A great shooter with top shelf gear can shoot both really well. Ah well we will continue to disagree but can both say that there is joy in putting rounds down range.
Have you used SK Match or Federal Gold my MTR loves both i have been getting very consistant groups ill post pictures later after i go out to target.
Now, now RT.
I said that groups lie "to me".
Tiny groups and bugholes I can do.
As you said, environmental shifts and velocity patterns,
caused my groups to wander relative to point of aim.
So after shooting 10 five shot groups, averaging 0.27 inches,
I build the 50 shot aggregate and now the result is 0.65 inch to 1 inch.
Small individual groups, but composite spread is quite hefty.
I'm not getting the job done.
Shooting for score?
That is a metric that doesn't accept excuses.
I can see ammunition caused strays and wind related outliers.
Groups hide those issues and allow me to continue my bad habits.
Shooting for score has improved my skills.
Focused attention on wind, ammunition quality
and body mechanics.
I'm much better now.
I said that groups lie "to me".
Tiny groups and bugholes I can do.
As you said, environmental shifts and velocity patterns,
caused my groups to wander relative to point of aim.
So after shooting 10 five shot groups, averaging 0.27 inches,
I build the 50 shot aggregate and now the result is 0.65 inch to 1 inch.
Small individual groups, but composite spread is quite hefty.
I'm not getting the job done.
Shooting for score?
That is a metric that doesn't accept excuses.
I can see ammunition caused strays and wind related outliers.
Groups hide those issues and allow me to continue my bad habits.
Shooting for score has improved my skills.
Focused attention on wind, ammunition quality
and body mechanics.
I'm much better now.
I am agreeing with you on CCIsv. It is consistent for me.
I have not tried either of those. I will surely consider them. Thanks!
This. I shoot a relatively modest CZ 457, with a Lilja barrel and a wood stock that has been modified to fit my needs. Its ugly, but it works. I headspaced the barrel at .043 specifically to run SK ammo, because that's what it likes. Generally speaking, it shoots about the same with SK Standard Plus as it does with Long Range Match, the difference being in the consistency.
The range where I shoot offers a rimfire target card that is based on an ARA card. Same size targets with the same scoring scheme, the difference being that these cards have 40 targets on them and a perfect score is 4000, intended to shot at 50 yards. With a good lot of ammo, I very regularly shoot 3800 or better, with perfect scores not being unusual.
Lots of guys swear by their low cost ammo, usually CCI SV, touting the groups they've shot, but I have never seen anyone shoot better than a 3200 or so with any type of CCI ammo.
If you really want to know how your rifle, shooter and ammo combo does, score it.
I'm sorry, but rimfire is a sore spot for me. There was a time in my life when I lived for precision rimfire and I have a good idea of what it takes to have a truly MOA or better setup and the misinformation that is spread around makes me crazy.
If you're shooting a bone stock anything based on a 10/22 action, I'd say get a case of Federal Automatch and just go have fun. You'll be thrilled when chance delivers that 1" 100 yard group.
As far as Ive seen, CCI doesn't make match ammo.
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