Going from G3 1-10 to HD5 2-10?

[FatBoy]

I have competed 2gun the last couple seasons with a G3 1-10 MOA and I hate the reticle. To me, the 200y zero and the thinness of the reticle make the scope less intuitive inside 150 and when I need the more precise hits out far the reticle is so thin that I have a hard time picking it up and actually seeing what yard line of the BDC I’m on. We general have a field or trees as a background, not a berm.

The FC-MOA reticle would be my choice IF it went down to 20-25 MOA in the stadia, as my 14.5s takes 20 MOA to get to 600, so it really doesn’t make sense for me to buy another scope with a reticle that’s not going to fit my kit and shooting style.

That brings me to the HD5 2-10 PR1 MOA. I’m curious and requesting feedback from anyone who may have been using this scope for outlaw 2 gun (5-500 yards)/speed shooting and how the parallax adjustment impact speed shooting. I’m not concerned if you shoot other reticles, really looking to see if I can set parallax and forget it and still have clarity and minimal shift on target. Parallax adjustment is what pushed me off the old 3-5-10 M3 to the NXS compacts and I haven’t looked back, but I have grown to like the FFP versatility.

All my field rifles have a red dot on top so 1x is not an issue for me. I generally use my LPVOs from 4-8/10 .

What scopes and I missing? Looking for compact, capped or locked turrets and a simple FFP scope with MOA stadia reticle that has hashmark to at least 20 MOA. Prefer at east 8x, would not be opposed to 12/14/16 if the scope was small and light enough. Vudu is already on the list.

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[FatBoy]

Not all lotta love for the 2-10, or not a lot of action shooters???

@C_Does video was pretty good, it helped but I’d love to hear from a field shooter who actually uses this scope or something else like it. Particularly interested in sight picture from 10-400 yards with one parallax setting. Is it doable?

 

[jpp3g]

No personal experience on that optic, but I'm considering the same kind of move. I spent the last few years with the G3 and then the PLX-C. I also use an offset red dot for 1x, so I'm frustrated by the compromise you get in a 1-whatever LPVO.

On the Mk5 I'd been looking at that new CMR reticle, otherwise I've been slowly working myself up to just buy the ZCo 2-10 with the HTR reticle.

 

[FatBoy]

Though getting behind the nx8 1-8 is a little tighter than my g3, I’d be ticked shitless if they just put the MOAR reticle in it. Maybe add some thickness outside 25 MOA-ish. It would have been perfect for me. Run it between 4-8x and drive on.

FC DMX is fine but I don’t need the holds , and don’t really like the dots above the center dot. I’ve gotten lost in them twice under stress. Next go around I’ll illuminate the reticle to see if it helps, but I’d still prefer MOA.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

ZCO 2-10. Ditch MOA and join the 20th century.

 

[Fresh2death]

No personal experience on that optic, but I'm considering the same kind of move. I spent the last few years with the G3 and then the PLX-C. I also use an offset red dot for 1x, so I'm frustrated by the compromise you get in a 1-whatever LPVO.

On the Mk5 I'd been looking at that new CMR reticle, otherwise I've been slowly working myself up to just buy the ZCo 2-10 with the HTR reticle.

I don’t action shoot, but I did get a mk5 2-10 cmr some months back. I must say that after 20yrs of many assorted lpvo’s, acogs and nxs 2.5-10’s.. the mk5 is the best I’ve used. I’ve not been a leupold fan, but Leupold nailed it with this one.

 

[C_Does]

I don’t action shoot, but I did get a mk5 2-10 cmr some months back. I must say that after 20yrs of many assorted lpvo’s, acogs and nxs 2.5-10’s.. the mk5 is the best I’ve used. I’ve not been a leupold fan, but Leupold nailed it with this one.

You have in your possession one of the finest optics made. That cmr reticle really finished that optic off perfectly.

OP, thanks for the mention. Once you get behind a good 2-1(x) it's hard to go back.unless weight is your ultimate goal.

 

[TonyAngel]

How high up on the list of priorities is size? The Mk5 is small, but not light for its size. Its compactness is also the source of the downsides. You can't change physics and the small exit pupil demands the tax be paid, BUT it beats the pants off of any LPVO I've shot with and all it costs you is the 1x.

I'm far from being a Leupold fan boy, but I bought a Mark 4HD 2.5-10x while drunk shopping one night. Eurooptic was running a deal on the tax and it made sense at the time. Man, that Mk4 is a dang nice scope and it sparked my interest in the Mk5.

I've had the opportunity to get behind a few and get out to 600 with them. I just kind of set the parallax to 300 and used that to shoot from 200 to 600 back and forth on steel using the reticle. If I was dialing, I may have taken the extra second to spin the parallax dial as well.

I hang out with a bunch of guys who are varying degrees of insane when it comes to spending money on gun stuff, so I get to check out a bunch of different optics. The Mark 5 as a package is impressive and I don't think it could be a wrong choice.

I only question going MOA. If speed is the name of the game, mils is the way to go and it seems that Leupold finally put a decent reticle in the 2-10x with the CMR.

Honestly, when you get to that price range, I think its gonna come down to preferences. I know my next optic purchase is going to be a 2-10 Mk5. I just need to be able to justify it to myself. I just haven't been behind my Mk4 and wished it was a Mk5 yet. Eh, maybe the next time I'm drunk shopping and someone is running a deal.

 

[FatBoy]

I’ve been shooting MOA from 5 to 1000 yards for 24 years. I can shoot MIL but I have two decades of DOPE saved and instantly accessible in my head. If the match is only out to 300 so yards this is a non issue , but if we start to push out I am slower with MILs as I have to think or God forbid, look at my dope card . When I shoot MIL I get to second guessing my hold over and it costs me time. Yes, I could train through it but why? I’m not shooting with a partner or calling shots for anyone.

A lot of love for this little Leupold scope. Still curious about what kind of sight picture and the amount of parallax error to expect with this scope. It’s quite a bit of money to be wrong.

Weight and size are not end all be all, but the rifle this is going on (next season) will be doing the 10k Legion Run and Gun in three weeks. 7.5-9 miles through woods, fields, ponds, barbed wire fences, slack lines, walls, probably Rescue Randy drags, creeks, etc. light and smaller are preferred for my 14.5s and this type of event.

Hadn’t looked at the ZCO yet. I had assumed MIL only, which makes sense these days….

 

[Fresh2death]

I’ve been shooting MOA from 5 to 1000 yards for 24 years. I can shoot MIL but I have two decades of DOPE saved and instantly accessible in my head. If the match is only out to 300 so yards this is a non issue , but if we start to push out I am slower with MILs as I have to think or God forbid, look at my dope card . When I shoot MIL I get to second guessing my hold over and it costs me time. Yes, I could train through it but why? I’m not shooting with a partner or calling shots for anyone.

A lot of love for this little Leupold scope. Still curious about what kind of sight picture and the amount of parallax error to expect with this scope. It’s quite a bit of money to be wrong.

Weight and size are not end all be all, but the rifle this is going on (next season) will be doing the 10k Legion Run and Gun in three weeks. 7.5-9 miles through woods, fields, ponds, barbed wire fences, slack lines, walls, probably Rescue Randy drags, creeks, etc. light and smaller are preferred for my 14.5s and this type of event.

Hadn’t looked at the ZCO yet. I had assumed MIL only, which makes sense these days….

If you really want light an Acog is where it’s at. Outside of that, the mk5 is 3+- Oz heavier than a vortex 1-10 or Atacr 1-8 for example. We aren’t talking about alot of weight difference. I’d say most of the weight difference is due to the tube diameter. Either way, it’s way more scope than the 3oz penalty you pay imho.

 

[FatBoy]

If you really want light an Acog is where it’s at. Outside of that, the mk5 is 3+- Oz heavier than a vortex 1-10 or Atacr 1-8 for example. We aren’t talking about alot of weight difference. I’d say most of the weight difference is due to the tube diameter. Either way, it’s way more scope than the 3oz penalty you pay imho.

Haha, good call. My backup rifle has a ACOG TA01/RMR on it. I may not have gone back to a variable if the reticle tracked better with my 77gr handloads.

 

[Terry Cross]

Not all lotta love for the 2-10, or not a lot of action shooters???

@C_Does video was pretty good, it helped but I’d love to hear from a field shooter who actually uses this scope or something else like it. Particularly interested in sight picture from 10-400 yards with one parallax setting. Is it doable?

I have one in SFP and have shipped quite a few rifles with the std FFP model in Mils.

It is one of the best scopes I have seen for what we do. What we don't do with them is run n gun type stuff so I can't offer first hand experience with that.

I can say that the FOV is excellent but we have never tried to use these from 10-400 without readjusting the parallax. In fact the adjustable parallax was one of the original draws for use because it is so important for us at the closer ranges. The eyebox, image brightness and resolution for a given X is one of the best we've seen. Capped wind, locking Elev, Nice Illum with timeout and the small footprint are the schnitz.

I can also say that the glass quality and design allows us to resolve things better at 10x than some of the other scopes can do at 14x or more. I may be wrong but I would guess that a scope with lower magnification would offer more of a "deep field" focus than the higher X scopes with all other things being equal.

Maybe get @koshkin or one of the other optics nerds ( I mean that in a very respectful way) to chime in?

 

[Terry Cross]

The Mk5 is small, but not light for its size. Its compactness is also the source of the downsides. You can't change physics and the small exit pupil demands the tax be paid,

For what we do, I place eye relief depth and exit pupil high on my priority list.
This is exactly why we aren't NX8 fans. Wanted to be a fan but find them fairly unforgiving.

I totally get that cramming optics into smaller and smaller physical footprints mandates compromise and diminishing returns on what and how it can output an image. My opinion is that the Mk5HD 2-10 is really not that "compact" for its stated magnification range and 5x ratio erector. I honestly have found them to deliver well above what one would expect at first glance.

*I used to be a big Leupold fan in the 80s and 90s. By the 2000's they had pretty much pissed most of us off by only concentrating on the BassPro low end market and Mil Contract high end markets. Their quality slipped and their innovation damn sure stopped. I wanted to keep liking them but their stupid shit just wouldn't stop. Fast forward and we now see some of the employees that lived through all of the bad decisions get promoted far enough up the food chain to start driving some positive changes. For the first time in years, I am seeing them at least try to do things a lot better.

 

[C_Does]

I have one in SFP and have shipped quite a few rifles with the std FFP model in Mils.

It is one of the best scopes I have seen for what we do. What we don't do with them is run n gun type stuff so I can't offer first hand experience with that.

View attachment 8742899

I can say that the FOV is excellent but we have never tried to use these from 10-400 without readjusting the parallax. In fact the adjustable parallax was one of the original draws for use because it is so important for us at the closer ranges. The eyebox, image brightness and resolution for a given X is one of the best we've seen. Capped wind, locking Elev, Nice Illum with timeout and the small footprint are the schnitz.

I can also say that the glass quality and design allows us to resolve things better at 10x than some of the other scopes can do at 14x or more. I may be wrong but I would guess that a scope with lower magnification would offer more of a "deep field" focus than the higher X scopes with all other things being equal.

Maybe get @koshkin or one of the other optics nerds ( I mean that in a very respectful way) to chime in?

You got a make that NSFW bro. That is one absolutely sexy rifle!

 

[koshkin]

I have one in SFP and have shipped quite a few rifles with the std FFP model in Mils.

It is one of the best scopes I have seen for what we do. What we don't do with them is run n gun type stuff so I can't offer first hand experience with that.

View attachment 8742899

I can say that the FOV is excellent but we have never tried to use these from 10-400 without readjusting the parallax. In fact the adjustable parallax was one of the original draws for use because it is so important for us at the closer ranges. The eyebox, image brightness and resolution for a given X is one of the best we've seen. Capped wind, locking Elev, Nice Illum with timeout and the small footprint are the schnitz.

I can also say that the glass quality and design allows us to resolve things better at 10x than some of the other scopes can do at 14x or more. I may be wrong but I would guess that a scope with lower magnification would offer more of a "deep field" focus than the higher X scopes with all other things being equal.

Maybe get @koshkin or one of the other optics nerds ( I mean that in a very respectful way) to chime in?

I have not yet tested the 2-10x Mark5HD. I pinged John a couple of weeks ago, but I have not received a reply yet.

Generally, if my math is right, it should have enough depth of field on 2x to use it up close and personal without needing to do anything with parallax.

The basic idea with a scope like this is that you should be able to set the parallax to some moderate distance (around 100 meters or so) and then use the optic without needing to touch the parallax for the bulk of what you do.

However, when getting ready for some sort of a fairly specific scenario like an ultra precise shot at close range where you might choose to use higher magnification or for longer range use on 10x, side focus is very helpful.

With all that, even wonderfully optimized 2x does not replace good quality 1x or non-magnifying optic if you are going to do a lot of CQB. If I were running a 2-10x30 scope, I would likely have an offset or piggybacked red dot set up. To be fair, I also have those set up with LPVOs, but that's more of a redundancy play.

ILya

 

[Fresh2death]

You nailed it especially with paragraphs 2-3.

I have an offset scrs on mine, but honestly don’t find myself using it much. The illum is so good that it’s basically like a 2x rds with it turned up. I have thought about removing the scrs, but I still find some utility with it when I need to transition say go from 30yd targets to 300yd quickly. In that instance I leave the mk5 on 4-10x depending. Leaning on the higher mags if pushing out to 5-600.

I would think in a real life battle scenario not using an offset would be sufficient and fine, while saving some weight. But trying to be as fast and precise as possible the offset rules.

I went out back the other day to call some foxes that have been harassing my chickens and called one in. I had the illum turned up and on 2x. He came in at about 50yds really quickly. Actually shot him on a fast walk. I only used the scope. It didn’t even come to my mind to use the offset.

 

[Terry Cross]

Thank you for taking the time to drop in and reply.

I have not yet tested the 2-10x Mark5HD. I pinged John a couple of weeks ago, but I have not received a reply yet.

Generally, if my math is right, it should have enough depth of field on 2x to use it up close and personal without needing to do anything with parallax.

The basic idea with a scope like this is that you should be able to set the parallax to some moderate distance (around 100 meters or so) and then use the optic without needing to touch the parallax for the bulk of what you do.

I think that would fit well with the typical RnG 2 gun stages that have larger target sizes shot under physical stressors.

If FB tries one of these for his matches, I would like to hear feedback/AAR on how the glass worked for you.

However, when getting ready for some sort of a fairly specific scenario like an ultra precise shot at close range where you might choose to use higher magnification or for longer range use on 10x, side focus is very helpful.

That was our thinking as well and as mentioned earlier, was a major plus in our decision tree.

With all that, even wonderfully optimized 2x does not replace good quality 1x or non-magnifying optic if you are going to do a lot of CQB. If I were running a 2-10x30 scope, I would likely have an offset or piggybacked red dot set up. To be fair, I also have those set up with LPVOs, but that's more of a redundancy play.

We have found this scope to be very easy to get a sharp reticle and good contrast against the target image at very close ranges when on the low end X.

Like you, I would not want it for anything CQB'ish where you might be maneuvering against angry meat with feet. For those adult games, I would be doing the huge FOV red dot with a high cap gasser mounted under it!

ILya

Thanks again for taking the time to drop in and reply.

 

[koshkin]

Thank you for taking the time to drop in and reply.

I think that would fit well with the typical RnG 2 gun stages that have larger target sizes shot under physical stressors.

If FB tries one of these for his matches, I would like to hear feedback/AAR on how the glass worked for you.


That was our thinking as well and as mentioned earlier, was a major plus in our decision tree.


We have found this scope to be very easy to get a sharp reticle and good contrast against the target image at very close ranges when on the low end X.

Like you, I would not want it for anything CQB'ish where you might be maneuvering against angry meat with feet. For those adult games, I would be doing the huge FOV red dot with a high cap gasser mounted under it!

Thank you for taking the time to drop in and reply.

You did tag me...

My life got a bit busier than I'd like, so I am not on here as much as I used to be, but I do check notifications regularly.

ILya

 

[FatBoy]

If FB tries one of these for his matches, I would like to hear feedback/AAR on how the glass worked for you.

If I end up changing (adding another scope, I don’t sell shit anymore) I’ll certainly report back.


Appreciate the feedback from all of you. Thank you.

Chris

 

[FatBoy]

I feel stupid now. The FC-MOA does go to 30 MOA in the reticle. That said, I think I may try the Leupold.

 

[FatBoy]

Thinking 15.1” NSW RECCE build in 6ARC with this 2-10 Leupold and a piggyback ACRO might be the hotness for DMR matches.