Overcooked Brass (Annealing question)

[bigboss91]

Can someone who knows more about annealing than me give me some guidance?

I've watched a Eric Cortina's video with his benchsource annealer and he like to see a slight glow in the brass to let him know its properly annealed. I can get the brass to glow with my flame annnealer but I feel like it was in the flame too long. I backed it off a couple seconds and landed here. Did I over cook my brass?

Overcooked?

 

[redbullitt]

Possible... i like to water drop them immediately so the heat doesn't keep transferring to the case head.

That case lying there is definately getting hotter than id like at the head just based on that alone.

I have a similar annealing rig. Its basically eliminated split necks on my junk blasting ammo and a bunch of others as well. I usually set it with a sacrificial case- in the dark i set it until i just barely see a glow on the neck. Case head at this point is hot will not burn my finger or sizzle water drop, so likely under 200 degrees f max every time.

Doubt it gets a perfect anneal or anything like that, but does seem to at least normalize brass this way. Again, no splits on cases that were toast otherwise. Seating uniformity is great and SD is improved.

Hard to say if you cooked the case heads... have you used any temp marking paint to let you know how hot? Did you watch for glow with the lights on or in the dark?

The marks on the case from heat are super unreliable other than saying it got hot, so that wont help much.

Try to set up the same and see how hot the case head gets... skin test, water sizzle, temp marking paint etc. Maybe get a better idea whats going on then.

 

[03machstock]

I don’t see what kind of annealer you are using, but with my annealeez in your situation it sounds like I would turn the heat up, and have the brass drop out quicker. Also, make sure your flame is focused and in the correct part of the brass.

 

[sjoliat]

In my opinion, that brass is nowhere near over annealed, and is just barely annealed enough. Move the torch closer to the brass to get the hot part of the flame hitting the case. That will speed up your cycle time. I bet no more heat transfered to the case head than what does during actually firing the cartridge.

 

[03machstock]

I’m an idiot, just saw the link to the video after the guys comment above me, but what I said still stands, turn up your torch, to speed up cycle time, just like he said. Your cycle times are 1.5-2x what mine are.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Did you see any change in color of the flame after a few seconds?

 

[straightshooter1]

Can someone who knows more about annealing than me give me some guidance?

I've watched a Eric Cortina's video with his benchsource annealer and he like to see a slight glow in the brass to let him know its properly annealed. I can get the brass to glow with my flame annnealer but I feel like it was in the flame too long. I backed it off a couple seconds and landed here. Did I over cook my brass?

Overcooked?

I've run tests and actually measured the hardness afterwards too, like so many. . . I'm not guessing about the results of my flame annealing.

The necks have got to get to a red glow, as seen in a darkened room. That red glow is an indication that it's got to ~1,100 to ~1,200°F. 650° or 750°F just isn't going to do the job as it takes way too much time (like over30 seconds in the flame) to get the proper anneal and this leads to getting the body much too hot. For my .308 cases, it takes ~9 seconds in my flame to get the red glow I'm looking for. It glows for a little over a second before it drops out of the flame. I don't use water to cool the brass as air cooling is fast enough once they drop out of the flame. Water cooling only has more work to the process. . . nothing more.

My goal for how hard/soft I get my necks is that I want them to be the same as my Lapua virgin brass. So I tested my Lapua brass to find the temperature and amount of time in the flame to get the results I wanted. Since I size my brass after annealing to get consistent results on sizing, I had to actually get my brass a little softer than my target. That's because when the cases are sized, it work hardens the neck up by quite a bit.

So, go for the red glow for a ~1 second, or a hair longer and you'll be just fine. You've won't be over doing it and your cases will be just fine. You might want to adjust the angle the flame in hitting the cases to minimize how much heat is below the shoulder/body junction.

Since I'm using a hardness tester, I'm not guessing like the others about whether I'm getting the annealing I want. I have a very good idea of what it takes to do the job when flame annealing.

 

[wvfarrier]

I wstch for the flame coming off the brass to change color to orange. 6 seconds is the sweet spot for my alpha brass and for my Fed brass

 

[bigboss91]

Did you see any change in color of the flame after a few seconds?

No. I was looking for an orange flame but didnt see it. I adjusted my setup for a very slight glow in the neck for 1 second then it drops out.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I will turn up the flame next time so the cycle time is quicker.

 

[straightshooter1]

No. I was looking for an orange flame but didnt see it. I adjusted my setup for a very slight glow in the neck for 1 second then it drops out.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I will turn up the flame next time so the cycle time is quicker.

I used to do the orange flame. I found that wasn't really a good indicator. It's the color of the neck glowing that's the better measure.

 

[Wizard1183]

You can anneal brass up to a temp of 1400F. So no you didn’t overcook your brass. Resize it after to work harden it a bit. Just note that reloading is about consistency and different annealing times yield different results

 

[Holliday]

Aside from the “drinkie the camera man” making it damn near impossible to zoom in……That looks damn near perfect in my book. That is what I have been doing and if anything it is a tad under annealed. That said after annealing I see group and SDs tighten as well as more consistent seating. My personal preference is better a tad under than over annealed but that’s me.

 

[John Glidewell]

This part (red arrow) of the flame should be touching the neck shoulder portion of the brass. That is the hotter flame.

 

[straightshooter1]

This part (red arrow) of the flame should be touching the neck shoulder portion of the brass. That is the hotter flame.

View attachment 8752887

I wanted a hotter flame, so I switched to a swirl flame head. I find the swirl flame works quite nice as it tends to wrap more around the neck and shoulder area producing pretty consistent results for the whole 360°. I did have to make sure the angle/direction of the flame was pointing a little more towards the mouth as that wrapping of the fame produced more of a bulge of the flame below the shoulder. That bulge tended to heat more below the shoulder than I like and changing the angle is the way to control that.

 

[bigboss91]

These are all great tips guys, thank you very much.

 

[Wizard1183]

I use the Annie. It’s consistent. Much cheaper than other inductions out there and no issues.