Looking for an an affordable and accurate AR-15

[patriot07]

Currently have an FN15 TAC3 that's an excellent rifle. Lightweight, 1000% reliable, runs smooth as silk, etc. But my fall/winter prairie dog trip is becoming an annual thing and upgrading my AR-15 is the only real way to get a varmint gun.

I've been a big Rock River fan over the years...is that my best bet for sub-$1000 accuracy? Lots of used ones for reasonable prices.

Anything else I should be considering? $1500+ is not in the cards.

 

[StephenShivers]

Check out Sionics. They start at 1,200 brand new, might be more than you're looking at spending.

 

[farwest]

Rock River Arms Coyote (1 MOA) or Predator Pursuit (3/4 MOA). Several vendors have good discounts on RRA

 

[TahoeDust]

A good 6arc is what you seek. Build, don't buy. If you want to buy you can get a pretty nice 6arc upper for less than $1k and put it on one of your lowers.

 

[patriot07]

Rock River Arms Coyote (1 MOA) or Predator Pursuit (3/4 MOA). Several vendors have good discounts on RRA

I found an older RRA Varmint at a local pawn shop. Do you happen to know what the accuracy guarantee on those was?

Reason I ask is it was $650 asking price.

Heavy stainless barrel

 

[sinister]

Does the TAC3 not shoot well enough?

If it doesn't I would consider handloads, a good barrel, a good trigger, and a good scope and mount.

 

[patriot07]

Does the TAC3 not shoot well enough?

If it doesn't I would consider handloads, a good barrel, a good trigger, and a good scope and mount.

I can't get it to shoot tight for whatever reason. I don't have time to hand load for another caliber and don't shoot my AR really except for prairie dog trips once a year, so it's not worth putting that much time into.

I've been running my Vortex PST Gen 2 5-25 on it. Trigger is a Giesele (or however you spell it).

I can shoot my bolt guns into one tiny hole, so it's not me I don't think. I'd just like a 1" group at 100, but consistently getting around 2-3" with most loads. Shooting different weights of factory match hornady ammo

 

[sinister]

I can't get it to shoot tight for whatever reason.

I can shoot my bolt guns into one tiny hole, so it's not me I don't think. I'd just like a 1" group at 100, but consistently getting around 2-3" with most loads. Shooting different weights of factory match hornady ammo

There's your problem.

How far are you taking these prairie dogs?

 

[farwest]

older RRA Varmint has a 3/4 MOA guaantee per RRA site

 

[farwest]

Google RRA Varmint, Predator Pursuit & Coyote. A lot of shooters say they get 1/2 tp 3/4 MOA- These date back to 2012/2013

 

[TahoeDust]

I found an older RRA Varmint at a local pawn shop. Do you happen to know what the accuracy guarantee on those was?

Reason I ask is it was $650 asking price.

Heavy stainless barrel

Do it.

 

[hlee]

RRA varmints are known shooters. $650 sounds like a good deal.

 

[patriot07]

There's your problem.

How far are you taking these prairie dogs?

Willing to take other suggestions on ammo types?

I did also try Nosler 77 grain HPBT with similar results.

200-300 yards with this gun. Plan on using a 17hmr for anything 125/150 yards and in.

 

[supercorndogs]

650 sounds like a good deal on the RRA.

I prefer a bolt action 223 with a long barrel to an ar15 for shooting up prairie dog towns.

 

[patriot07]

650 sounds like a good deal on the RRA.

I prefer a bolt action 223 with a long barrel to an ar15 for shooting up prairie dog towns.

I am sort of debating a Tikka Varmint also. If I could find a good deal on one I'd consider going that route.

 

[waveslayer]

For the money, it's hard to beat a RRA. All of mine have been sub MOA

 

[WeR0206]

Currently have an FN15 TAC3 that's an excellent rifle. Lightweight, 1000% reliable, runs smooth as silk, etc. But my fall/winter prairie dog trip is becoming an annual thing and upgrading my AR-15 is the only real way to get a varmint gun.

I've been a big Rock River fan over the years...is that my best bet for sub-$1000 accuracy? Lots of used ones for reasonable prices.

Anything else I should be considering? $1500+ is not in the cards.

If you’re ok with just buying an upper here are some solid 5.56/223 choices:

• Complete Uppers:
  • Geissele Super Duty 16” Mod 1 FDE (when on sale, ~$999)
  • BCM® MK2 Standard 16" 5.56 Mid Length Complete Upper Receiver Group w/ MCMR-15 ($864)
  • BCM® MK2 BFH 16" 5.56 Mid Length Complete Upper Receiver Group w/ MCMR-13 ($915)
  • SOLGW L89 V2 16” upper ($900)
  • Sionics 16″ Premium Complete Upper ($1,000)
  • Argos Ordnance A115 R Complete Upper Forged 18” SPR ($1,050)
  • White Oak 16” SPR Complete Upper ($680)
  • Luth-AR Complete 16″ .223 Rem Bull Barrel AR Carbine Kit ($660)

For 6 arc you can go with Noveske

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I have three of the RRA heavy stainless uppers and they all shoot. Look at the RRA varmint uppers, you can get the 24" in 1:8 or 1:12 twist. The 1:12 will send lighter pills accurately at fast flat trajectories. That would be my plan.

 

[sinister]

You can get a brand-new White Oak varmint barrel (16-22 inches) installed into your current upper for way less than $650 for a new rifle.

Then again the Rock River gets you a whole new rifle.

 

[patriot07]

You can get a brand-new White Oak varmint barrel (16-22 inches) installed into your current upper for way less than $650 for a new rifle.

View attachment 8751555

Then again the Rock River gets you a whole new rifle.

That's another thought.

I have a barrel vise but not much in the way of AR-15 tools, so not sure what I'd need there. Just a barrel nut wrench?

If I wanted to load test the FNH a bit more, what factory ammo should I consider?

 

[patriot07]

For the money, it's hard to beat a RRA. All of mine have been sub MOA

How do I know what barrel twist this thing has? Heading to look at it today.

Any ammo suggestions? Do you have to handload to get sub moa or will good factory ammo usually get you there?

 

[patriot07]

And I guess the other question I don't know the answer to - is there any issue with running one suppressed? I've never run a suppressed semi-auto

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I have three of the RRA heavy stainless uppers and they all shoot. Look at the RRA varmint uppers, you can get the 24" in 1:8 or 1:12 twist. The 1:12 will send lighter pills accurately at fast flat trajectories. That would be my plan.

RRA sells uppers, cheaper than a rifle and no effort or risk if you have never built an upper.

Varmint A4 Upper Half https://share.google/Cibp3PLh8flEBJm3j

The 1:12 will get you to 35-45gr bullets that don't spin apart at 3500-3700fps. Out to 300yds, a great combination.

If you try to put these in a 1:7 or 1:8 the thin jackets tend to spin apart mid flight. Unless you need to go beyond 500yds, I think the slower twist is better for varmint.

 

[hafejd30]

The RRA I had (LAR8) was impressive for accuracy. So is my WOA barreled AR15

For a suppressor I’d get an adjustable gas block. Otherwise adjustable bolt carriers work decent as well

Check the px here. You may find a deal on an accurate setup there. AR’s aren’t commanding a premium price currently so most are going for relatively cheap

 

[Bigjake83]

Not sure if they still make theses but they are fantastic LR and varmint Rifles and are true to thier .5 MOA claims.

I eventually had Compass Lake cut and thread mine down to 20".

White Oak is also another great option but they're making some changes so not sure on current inventory or availability.

 

[msgriff]

And I guess the other question I don't know the answer to - is there any issue with running one suppressed? I've never run a suppressed semi-auto

Suppressors can affect the function of a gas gun, and the shooter's comfort to some degree. This can usually be resolved by using various tuning methods, but if you plan on running a high back pressure suppressor all the time, the best way to start is to have a proper gas system length for the barrel length (dwell). There isn't really a universally accepted back pressure rating system, but the chart below shows values assigned by one organization for various suppressors. The higher the rating, the more that you might need to tune the gas gun.

https://pewscience.com/sound-signat...esearch-supplement-omega-back-pressure-metric

 

[patriot07]

Suppressors can affect the function of a gas gun, and the shooter's comfort to some degree. This can usually be resolved by using various tuning methods, but if you plan on running a high back pressure suppressor all the time, the best way to start is to have a proper gas system length for the barrel length (dwell). There isn't really a universally accepted back pressure rating system, but the chart below shows values assigned by one organization for various suppressors. The higher the rating, the more that you might need to tune the gas gun.

https://pewscience.com/sound-signat...esearch-supplement-omega-back-pressure-metric

Thanks for the info and thoughtful response. I run a Harvester 300.

I wouldn't really care to run it for p-dog shooting, but this would probably end up replacing my NV rig which is currently a Tikka Lite 223 that I run suppressed. So I'd just want to be able to function suppressed for night time hunting.

 

[MontanaMan]

With a capable gun, if you aren't handloading, you will also need capable factory ammo.

in 55gr loads, both the Hornady 55 V-max & the ADI 55 Sierra BK are good; I don't buy either regularly as I handload both bullets, but the factory ammo I have shot of both are decent.

In a heavier bullet, factory loaded, the IMI 77gr Razorcore has been good in every rifle I've shot it in; 77gr Razorcore is the group on the right.

MM

 

[farwest]

For $650, you will never find a more accurate AR that the RRA Varmint. The SS air gauged barrel and 2 stage NM trigger are worth that much. The shop may sell you the rifle for $650 out the door in today's market. Some shooters get 1/2 MOA or better. I like the older RRA rifles better than current production because the current rails look like S*** outer space junk. I have a 2013 RRA Predator Pursuit and a current Predator Pursuit and much prefer the older model. I also have a RRA Cayote .223. All are outstanding values.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

And I guess the other question I don't know the answer to - is there any issue with running one suppressed? I've never run a suppressed semi-auto

It is unlikely you will have a hard time with a 20-24". The longer barrel doesn't over gas the way short ones do.

 

[patriot07]

For $650, you will never find a more accurate AR that the RRA Varmint. The SS air gauged barrel and 2 stage NM trigger are worth that much. The shop may sell you the rifle for $650 out the door in today's market. Some shooters get 1/2 MOA or better. I like the older RRA rifles better than current production because the current rails look like S*** outer space junk. I have a 2013 RRA Predator Pursuit and a current Predator Pursuit and much prefer the older model. I also have a RRA Cayote .223. All are outstanding values.

What the heck kind of magazine is this? I didn't realize there were 5.56 guns that didn't use the standard curved mag...or will this use the standard curved mag?

 

[Old Man with Gun]

What the heck kind of magazine is this? I didn't realize there were 5.56 guns that didn't use the standard curved mag...or will this use the standard curved mag?

10 and 20 round mags are straight.

 

[patriot07]

10 and 20 round mags are straight.

So can you use the normal curved 30 rounders in the Varmint?

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Yes, any AR mag or even drum will work.

 

[DeaconBlue]

I guess the biggest risk with the used rifle is how hard was it used and barrel condition? Could’ve been babied, could’ve been fed a heavy diet of Bubba’s pissin hot loads mag dumped into a trash pile. Either way you’ll still need to find a load that it likes, granted that it still shoots, so personally I’d lean towards a known quantity heavy, match barrel or new upper. Maybe in your case a match upper for the accuracy you’re seeking, and keep the existing upper for general training.

 

[carbonbased]

I had a 20” RRA Varmint. It ran like shit with a 30cal high back pressure typical bolt gun can that I had (not blaming the gun). Needed an AGB or different gas tube, but I was on a mission to try piston guns so I stupidly sold it. Heavy mf (~9.5lbs) with a nice trigger. Felt heavier than specs as a ton of the weight was out front…that barrel is PHAT.

But my PWS piston guns weren’t great. Lots of trouble cycling, but I was lucky to buy from Brownells and could return them. I shoot 100% suppressed. Must’ve gotten unlucky as they seem to have good reviews?

A year or two ago, I found an Armalite M-15 Competition 18” on sale from PSA for $899 (I think). It comes with an AGB, a nice single stage trigger (I prefer 2 stage, but this one is good), and a stock that works well on the pdog bench.

It’s on sale now for $999

https://palmettostatearmory.com/armalite-m-15-competition-223-wylde-5-56-semi-automatic-ar-15-rifle-m153gn18.html

Even though it has a 1:8 barrel, it shot this 10rd group with 40gr Vmax Fiocchi with an Atlas CAL bipod off a bench. And I suck as an AR shooter as I’m mainly a bolt gun guy.

You wouldn’t have to do anything to it for the pdog fields. It’s lighter than a RRA Varmint by a lot (in feelings anyway), which could be good or bad depending on what you prefer. I kinda like it as I shoot it well but can more easily use it for walking around too. It’s not sooo front heavy like the RRA Varmint was.

The weight is relative, of course. I have some 20lbs bolt guns.

Anyway, the Armalite rocks.

 

[carbonbased]

Thinking about it, the only things I’d change about my Armalite are the color (tan) and the grip angle. I prefer a straighter grip.

 

[matt33]

As someone who owns several AR rifles, I will give you my thoughts. IMHO, perhaps the most likely and affordable way to buy an AR that is going to be very accurate would be to buy a cheaper AR that skimps on the barrel, and budget an additional $300 to buy a premium barrel separately from the AR.

Geissele HBAR, SOLGW SPR barrels, and my Criterion Hybrid nitrided stainless steel are all very accurate/precise for around or less than $300.

 

[patriot07]

I had a 20” RRA Varmint. It ran like shit with a 30cal high back pressure typical bolt gun can that I had (not blaming the gun). Needed an AGB or different gas tube, but I was on a mission to try piston guns so I stupidly sold it. Heavy mf (~9.5lbs) with a nice trigger. Felt heavier than specs as a ton of the weight was out front…that barrel is PHAT.

But my PWS piston guns weren’t great. Lots of trouble cycling, but I was lucky to buy from Brownells and could return them. I shoot 100% suppressed. Must’ve gotten unlucky as they seem to have good reviews?

A year or two ago, I found an Armalite M-15 Competition 18” on sale from PSA for $899 (I think). It comes with an AGB, a nice single stage trigger (I prefer 2 stage, but this one is good), and a stock that works well on the pdog bench.

It’s on sale now for $999

https://palmettostatearmory.com/armalite-m-15-competition-223-wylde-5-56-semi-automatic-ar-15-rifle-m153gn18.html

Even though it has a 1:8 barrel, it shot this 10rd group with 40gr Vmax Fiocchi with an Atlas CAL bipod off a bench. And I suck as an AR shooter as I’m mainly a bolt gun guy.
View attachment 8753489

You wouldn’t have to do anything to it for the pdog fields. It’s lighter than a RRA Varmint by a lot (in feelings anyway), which could be good or bad depending on what you prefer. I kinda like it as I shoot it well but can more easily use it for walking around too. It’s not sooo front heavy like the RRA Varmint was.

The weight is relative, of course. I have some 20lbs bolt guns.

Anyway, the Armalite rocks.

Was your varmint a 16, 20, or 24 inch barrel?

Thanks for the info and posts

 

[RUTGERS95]

Currently have an FN15 TAC3 that's an excellent rifle. Lightweight, 1000% reliable, runs smooth as silk, etc. But my fall/winter prairie dog trip is becoming an annual thing and upgrading my AR-15 is the only real way to get a varmint gun.

I've been a big Rock River fan over the years...is that my best bet for sub-$1000 accuracy? Lots of used ones for reasonable prices.

Anything else I should be considering? $1500+ is not in the cards.

centurion arms

 

[carbonbased]

Was your varmint a 16, 20, or 24 inch barrel?

Thanks for the info and posts

20”