Nas3 308 Brass

[wvfarrier]

I received a batch of the Shellshock 308 Win casings. The company has zero communication skills. I left several messages via email/phone and received no responses. I also received zero shipping info but the brass did arrive after 6 days so not bad but the lack of communication annoyed me.

The brass itself looks terrible. Its filthy unlike the photos they provide on their website where it all looks new. What I received looks like 5 week old nickel range brass. Pretty ugly.

I threw some of it in the stainless media to clean it up. We will see how it turns out. The annealing marks are almost 3/4 of the way down the case length....kinda weird. The 300blk casing I bought previously looked MUCH better.

My only guess is that they coat them in some kinda of oil during packaging. The bag is covered in it.

The interesting part is the H2O capacity. My alpha (unfired) srp brass holds 54.8 grains of water BUT the SS Nas3 holds 57!!! That is a massive difference.

My plan is too load some up tomorrow with my current 308 recipe and see how it goes.

 

[RegionRat]

Interesting flash hole diameter and extractor-rim design.

Just be careful if you try to go up in pressure that your gun's design can also accommodate the pressure.

In for the range reports.

 

[wvfarrier]

 

[straightshooter1]

I received a batch of the Shellshock 308 Win casings. The company has zero communication skills. I left several messages via email/phone and received no responses. I also received zero shipping info but the brass did arrive after 6 days so not bad but the lack of communication annoyed me.

The brass itself looks terrible. Its filthy unlike the photos they provide on their website where it all looks new. What I received looks like 5 week old nickel range brass. Pretty ugly.

I threw some of it in the stainless media to clean it up. We will see how it turns out. The annealing marks are almost 3/4 of the way down the case length....kinda weird. The 300blk casing I bought previously looked MUCH better.

My only guess is that they coat them in some kinda of oil during packaging. The bag is covered in it.

The interesting part is the H2O capacity. My alpha (unfired) srp brass holds 54.8 grains of water BUT the SS Nas3 holds 57!!! That is a massive difference.

My plan is too load some up tomorrow with my current 308 recipe and see how it goes.

Similarly, my Sig 277 Hybrid case's volumes measured at 57 grs H2O. I'd received 4 different case headstamps of them and each was a little different. After necking them up from .277 to .308 and firing them, two of the headstamps measured at 57.7, which interestingly is exactly what my Winchester .308 brass measured.

You're idea of trying your normal load first is a good one, if nothing more than to get some fire formed and then get a measurement of their case volumes. Then you can test some different loads, which is what I did, starting with normal loads and working up with different powders for more velocity . . . assuming that's what you got these cases for.

I worked up a load max pressure (that being at 80k psi, much higher than I intend to use normally) using 46.5 grs H-4895 pushing 177 SMK's with a COAL of 2.977" to 2,900 fps. . .something I would not recommend anyone doing unless they really know what they're doing. Modern day actions and barrels can handle that pressure, but it still hard on them. I intend to keep pressure somewhere between 70k and 75k psi with these cases. I've not had any extraction or ejection issues with these cases so far.

I've very curious as to how these case's of your compare.

 

[sheepdog697]

following this thread

 

[softcock]

following this thread

Same here .. but
'asking' if anyone here doing the Nas3 300bo brass in a Boltaction loading high Vel, only ( NOT subsonic ) ?
Or is there a Thread already done about subject here already on the SHcom ?

Pretty interested if this Brass make a worthwhile advantage for 110 Vmax's over just standard brass out the bolt gun .
.

 

[Edsel]

Interested.

Been thinking of a .308 Winchester +P+ round for my present short action bolt gun.

Yes, stupid, I know.

 

[357Max]

Same here .. but
'asking' if anyone here doing the Nas3 300bo brass in a Boltaction loading high Vel, only ( NOT subsonic ) ?
Or is there a Thread already done about subject here already on the SHcom ?

Pretty interested if this Brass make a worthwhile advantage for 110 Vmax's over just standard brass out the bolt gun .
.

I've got some 300BO supersonic 155gr + NAS3 case info near the bottom of the post linked below. It's an 8" AR, but still gives you some idea of what it can do.
Since that post I did load some 110 Vmax & Lapua 100gr HPCE with the Nas3 cases using N110
8" barrel AR
Factory Hornady Black 110Vmax is really slow at 1419fps
NAS3 110Vmax @ 2.091coal worked up to 18.4gr N110 & Ten shots avg 2144fps SD 6.7
NAS3 100gr Lapua HPCE @2.034coal, N110 18.8gr (C) = 2242fps Sd 4.7 over 10 shots

Badlands "Shell Shock" 5.56 - snake oil?

Even with their primed brass? I want to figure out what the powder is. I'm willing to pay $0.30/piece and if it means for $0.60-$0.70 I can run an SMK or TSX above 2800fps from a 16" gun. Sorry I thought you meant you were reloading what you’ve fired. Loading is fine. I also wasn’t aware...

www.snipershide.com

 

[stello1001]

Interested.

Been thinking of a .308 Winchester +P+ round for my present short action bolt gun.

Yes, stupid, I know.

Why not just buy hybrid cases. They're already tried and tested, and proven to be good.

 

[Edsel]

Why not just buy hybrid cases. They're already tried and tested, and proven to be good.

Just finished looking at them.

Didn’t realize they were being sold.

Planning of getting a bunch soon.

 

[wvfarrier]

Same here .. but
'asking' if anyone here doing the Nas3 300bo brass in a Boltaction loading high Vel, only ( NOT subsonic ) ?
Or is there a Thread already done about subject here already on the SHcom ?

Pretty interested if this Brass make a worthwhile advantage for 110 Vmax's over just standard brass out the bolt gun .
.

I used some to load the barnes 130 ttsx to 2460fps from a 16" 300blk

 

[wvfarrier]

I measure 10 pieces at random from the bag they arrived in.
4 measured 2.0085
3 measured 2.0055
1 measured 2.0075
2 measured 2.0065

 

[wvfarrier]

Ok, here is the good, the bad and the ugly.

All shots were at 150 yards.

I did one test load at max book this morning but got side tracked and had to come back after 2 hours to start.
Varget
180 Tipped Gameking
308 Win
2.88" OAL
Big Horn Origin
20" PVA barrel
Shellshock Nas3 Casings
CCI #200 Large Rifle Primers

#1- 46.2 grains (cold bore)
2688/2713/2722
size after 2.0155/2.0190/2.0190

#2- 46.4 grains
2738/2729/2743
size after 2.0180/2.0195/2.0185

#3-46.6 grains
2763/2758/2747
after 2.0178/2.0130/2.0195

#4-46.8 grains
2738/2737/2740
2.0180/2.0135/2.0185

#5-47 grains
2756/2745/2764
after 2.0130/2.0135/2.0185

The casings are absolutely NOT re-sizeable. I tried to neck size 1 and the base tore off leaving the broken case stuck inside my die. It was well lubed.

For non-reloaders these are pretty nice but for me its a NO. My Alpha brass works just as well and some have 15 firings on them.

#1

#2

#3

#4
I apparently did not take a picture, will do so later.

#5

 

[wvfarrier]

Here is the base that tore off when I tried to neck size.

 

[spife7980]

The casings are absolutely NOT re-sizeable. I tried to neck size 1 and the base tore off leaving the broken case stuck inside my die. It was well lubed.

I thought they were supposed to have enough tensile strength to spring back and not need resizing?

Will the fired cases still chamber and hold a bullet?

Edit: I know the pistol does have a spring that pushes the case out in the mouth vs the shell holder pulling the rim off, but I found this to rifle cases specifically.

 

[wvfarrier]

 

[wvfarrier]

I was able to de-prime the firing casings by using a universal decapping rod and a 3/8 wrench. A dummy round shows it will hold a projectile.

 

[wvfarrier]

 

[loveha]

Is there a 6.5 Creedmoor equivalent my Google Fu hasn't found? Google seems to think I am looking for Berger 140gr Hybrid match ammo.

Going to assume Nas3 will move into it eventually.

What I don't understand is one of the answers in generally asked questions.

Can I reload NAS³ rifle cases?

No, Shell Tech’s rifle cases are precision-engineered, military-grade ammunition cases and are not designed to be reloaded. Reloading these cases can compromise their performance and safety, so we do not recommend or support reloading them.

What makes the pistol cases reloadable (with their die), but NOT their rifle cases?

 

[spife7980]

What makes the pistol cases reloadable (with their die), but NOT their rifle cases?

The about of case taper with body-shoulder-neck transitions and overall amount of material/friction.
The pistol case is just a smooth single angle with no transition.

Similar to how you have to lube rifle cases but pistol cases can be done dry.

 

[straightshooter1]

Is there a 6.5 Creedmoor equivalent my Google Fu hasn't found? Google seems to think I am looking for Berger 140gr Hybrid match ammo.

Going to assume Nas3 will move into it eventually.

What I don't understand is one of the answers in generally asked questions.



What makes the pistol cases reloadable (with their die), but NOT their rifle cases?

Not reloadable might have something to do with their "wave" design for the bottle neck cases that's reported designed this way to reduce bolt thrust. That wave design is not on pistol cases. Once its fired that "wave" design on top of the web is flattened. Reload them, and you don't have the reduced bolt thrust. And I think another issue is, one needs a rather tight chamber so the case isn't expanded so much making is too hard to size the case back to spec. The case walls are thinner and more uniform, providing more case volume, but tougher.

I'm not sure I like the design for reloading rifle cartridges. . . unless you have their specific reloading dies.

 

[loveha]

So that begs the question. Is the juice worth the squeeze so to speak.

 

[straightshooter1]

So that begs the question. Is the juice worth the squeeze so to speak.

Perhaps so for one shot hunting rounds???

 

[wvfarrier]

So that begs the question. Is the juice worth the squeeze so to speak.

To me, nope. This test batch will be all I buy. I will stick with my alpha unless I decide to try re-sizing 277 Fury brass

 

[Long Range 338]

Thinking of how these cases work just by observing the way they are built - all the headspace will come from stretching at the connection to the case head, not stretch in the body and shoulder as we are accustomed to with brass cases. Even a die similar to their pistol die would most likely tear the case head from the body it looks like, making reloading very counterproductive.

If you wanted to do something similar to what Federal is doing with their Backcountry line of cartridges, this stuff could fill that niche.

Hopefully someone comes up with a solution for reloading that doesn’t destroy the cases.

 

[straightshooter1]

Thinking of how these cases work just by observing the way they are built - all the headspace will come from stretching at the connection to the case head, not stretch in the body and shoulder as we are accustomed to with brass cases. Even a die similar to their pistol die would most likely tear the case head from the body it looks like, making reloading very counterproductive.

If you wanted to do something similar to what Federal is doing with their Backcountry line of cartridges, this stuff could fill that niche.

Hopefully someone comes up with a solution for reloading that doesn’t destroy the cases.

These seem to do pretty well:

 

[Long Range 338]

These seem to do pretty well:

View attachment 8753559View attachment 8753558
View attachment 8753563

I was referring to the NAS3 cases.

 

[wvfarrier]

I loaded 2 more ladders.
47.2 and 47.5
Will test them in the a.m tomorrow

 

[357Max]

Nas3 308 direct comparison to Sig Hybrid 308

The Sig hybrid cases formed to 308 and fired measure 57.2-57.74gr H2o with spent primer.
The Nas3 case with spent primer installed measures 57.64gr H2o

So I loaded identical ladders for both cases.

Gun is 16" 308Win 8 twist mid gas, with Law folder, Suppressed KRG R30T, & Larue mags. Vortex viper pst2 2-10

Baseline for clean bore shots FGMM 175's x 3 = 2389fps

Powder for all loads is PP2000, primers cci#34, & all loads seated to 2.860"
169smk
Sig Hyb...............................Nas3
48.9 x 5 = 2567 SD 6.7/ x 5 = 2536 SD 7.5
49.3 x 5 = 2592 SD 4.1/ x 5 = 2563 SD 5.0
49.7 x 5 = 2623 SD 3.2/ x 5 = 2577 SD 5.1
50.1 x 1 = 2639 / x 1 = 2589

177smk @ 2.860"
Sig Hyb...............................Nas3
48.1 x 5 = 2528 SD 3.2/ x 5 = 2482 SD 3.5
48.5 x 5 = 2544 SD 3.8/ x 5 = 2506 SD 5.8
48.9 x 5 = 2574 SD 2.8/ x 5 = 2527 SD 5.9
49.3 x 1 = 2592 / x 1 = 2545

Case dimensions after firing.
Sig Hyb @.200 line = .4735", case length = 2.020", & H2o = 58.58gr
Nas3 @.200 line = .4753", case length = 2.0215", & H2o = 60.68gr

All shot @100y bi-pod/bag prone.
Guns favorite load was in Sig Hyb with 177smk
Interesting though that when the Nas3 hit that same speed it also shot a .800" group.

For 308 bolt gun I only loaded Nas3 cases.
ARC CDG with 26" 10 twist PVA barrel & first shots with Diligent Defense Enticer Sti. Jury still out on the can, always shot this braked.

174 ELDM - VT @2.950
PP2000, Rem 9-1/2 mag
48.2 x 5 = 2780 SD 7.6
48.6 x 5 = 2813 SD 9.9
49.0 x 5 = 2845 SD 5.1

Berger 200.2x @2.960
Vit N550, Rem 9-1/2 mag
46.8 x 5 = 2636 SD 2.9
47.2 x 5 = 2667 SD 15.3
47.6 x 5 = 2689 SD 10

Nothing great in the accuracy dept. First time with Can, powder, case, & primer in the bolt gun. 174's were all about 1" & 200.2's were 1.2-1.8" No primer craters or heavy bolt with any of these.

Thoughts on these Nas3 308 cases so far:

TLDR version. For the AR there pretty good & that's what I'll be using them for. Not usable in the ARC CDG.

Neck tension on the 308 cases is pretty good & consistent. I used Imperial dry neck lube and after seating finished with a Redding taper crimp just to close up the small flare. No added crimp.

Head space is Hot dog down a hallway for these 308's like it is for the 5.56. I had .009 - .012" head space with these & this can and did cause problems for the bolt gun. Unfortunately the ARC CDG is their only action that does not have adjustable firing pin protrusion. I had a few that wouldn't fire. Add .0012 HS to -.006 primer depth and that only leaves about .010 pin strike on my CDG.

Case head size. Norma Brass = .471", Sig Hyb = .4685", Nas3 = .4665"
The ARC CDG did not extract a single one of the Nas3 cases. It pulled them partially out of the chamber and then the extractor just let go so I had to drop the mag every shot. The CDG runs the Sig Hyb cases flawlessly.

Case volume. The Nas3 end up at plus 2 gr over the Sig Hyb when fired. They expand width @.200 line & length adding 2gr & it shows in the velocity on the comparison ladder. This kind of confounds Gordon's since it wants fired capacity & based on that Yuge 60.6gr fired capacity I could go hotter than I did. Looks to me like they need about +.6gr to equal the Sig hyb even though they start at same H2o.

Reloading - Just don't!! For one thing without any rhyme or reason about 3/4 of the 308 case heads will spin after firing. The 5.56 don't do that.
Also the Nas3 neck thickness is .001" thicker than my Norma brass. Think about that, it's steel. I tried a collet neck sizer on a 5.56 Nas3 and it laughed at it. I also tried a .2245 mandrel in the 5.56 Nas3 to reduce neck tension a bit for bolt gun. The fucking thick ass steel necks are so strong it pulled the case head off trying to pull the mandrel out (Graphite lube). Also galled the mandrel. I had to make a mandrel from Nickel brass & that worked acceptably to at least ensure consistent tension.

On a positive note, these 308 Nas3's ran perfect in my AR. On the lighter charge weights in the comparison ladder I got bolt lock with the Nas3 at 30-40fps slower than the Sig Hyb that did not lock back. This tells me they are easier to extract.