Sorry I thought you meant you were reloading what you’ve fired.
Loading is fine.
I also wasn’t aware they sold primed unloaded NAS3 cases. Where are you seeing those?
Last edited:
Badlands "Shell Shock" 5.56 - snake oil?
- Thread starter AwkwardlySocial
- Start date
Sorry I thought you meant you were reloading what you’ve fired.
Loading is fine.
I also wasn’t aware they sold primed unloaded NAS3 cases. Where are you seeing those?
You can get them directly from Shell Shock:
1,000 5.56x45mm Cases | Shell Shock Technologies
1,000 new unprimed NAS3 5.56x45mm cartridge cases. Shell Shock’s NAS3 cases: Up to 50% lighter than brass cases Offer greater lubricity and will not abrade, clog, foul, wear-out or damage breach and ejector mechanisms. Offer greater corrosion resistance, tensile strength, and elasticity than...
shellshocktechnologies.com
You can get them directly from Shell Shock:
1,000 5.56x45mm Cases | Shell Shock Technologies
1,000 new unprimed NAS3 5.56x45mm cartridge cases. Shell Shock’s NAS3 cases: Up to 50% lighter than brass cases Offer greater lubricity and will not abrade, clog, foul, wear-out or damage breach and ejector mechanisms. Offer greater corrosion resistance, tensile strength, and elasticity than...
Yeah, I know.
He said ‘primed’, those are unprimed.
I get the initial loading and then maybe 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 casings will resized for reloading. SS says in their faq section that rifle cases are not reloadable
Haha..my bad. Yeah, Shell Shock doesn't sell primed cases.
There were some listed here as primed, but they're OOS (the link says "unprimed" but the actual page says they were primed with Genix SRP):
ETA: that place still has some primed 300blk & 40 S&W NAS3 in stock.
None of mine would resize for reloading. I tried about 100 and gave up. I’ve shot about 1.5k and just leave em.
Black Arc has announced 6 ARC ammo loaded with Shell Shock cases. There will be two versions. One loaded to semi-auto pressures and one loaded to bolt gun pressures.
No word yet, that I've seen, on price or expected delivery dates. Also no word on which bullet(s) will be used.
No word yet, that I've seen, on price or expected delivery dates. Also no word on which bullet(s) will be used.
I believe the biggest gains are in shorter barrels for these.
Badlands 77gr shell shock fired from a 12.5 criterion core with a griffin explorr. This is the most recent batch
The mk12 with the can and mk262 is rated at 2750.
I'm essentially getting the same ballistics out of a 12.5 now that I would traditionally get with an 18"
Badlands 77gr shell shock fired from a 12.5 criterion core with a griffin explorr. This is the most recent batch
The mk12 with the can and mk262 is rated at 2750.
I'm essentially getting the same ballistics out of a 12.5 now that I would traditionally get with an 18"
Attachments
I've looked ar these shell shock cases when they first came out in 9mm, many yrs ago, but never tried them.
This has been going on for like 35 yrs with the SS case heads...we are seeing sucess, with Federal Steel, Sig hybrid, & Shell Shock...they have merit, and brass cartridge cases are very old, and we need improvement here, along with the powders to go with the new case technology.
The 9mm are a hybrid case with Stainless Steel case heads and alum bodies...and reloadable with their ejector 9mm dies.
The 5.56 are not hybrid cases but a two piece stainless steel case, head & body.
They have a larger flash hole as a means to crimp the body to the case head
I haven't seen dies to reload them, ejector type or any other ...I'd have to give it a try or make dies to do so.
They say an 8% increase in case capacity, but the velocity increase will likely come from speciality powders.
Remember Hornady’s line of Superformance ammunition achieved significantly greater performance with the exact same brass case and bullet, because of powder optimization, not greater capacity.
Stainless case heads are not hot when they come out of the gun... that is true.
Since energy can not be destroyed but only converted or changed, the Stainless cases will impart more powder energy into velocity instead of absorbing powder energy into case head in the form of heat...which will impart a bit more velocity to the bullet under the same pressure, so stainless is a more efficient vessel.
That said, the larger increase in velocity is due to most likely a specific powder blend for the bullet. Ya see it all the time with some of the new powders a 150 fps faster in the same case, but change bullets a few weights heavier and the advantage disappears.
This has been going on for like 35 yrs with the SS case heads...we are seeing sucess, with Federal Steel, Sig hybrid, & Shell Shock...they have merit, and brass cartridge cases are very old, and we need improvement here, along with the powders to go with the new case technology.
The 9mm are a hybrid case with Stainless Steel case heads and alum bodies...and reloadable with their ejector 9mm dies.
The 5.56 are not hybrid cases but a two piece stainless steel case, head & body.
They have a larger flash hole as a means to crimp the body to the case head
I haven't seen dies to reload them, ejector type or any other ...I'd have to give it a try or make dies to do so.
They say an 8% increase in case capacity, but the velocity increase will likely come from speciality powders.
Remember Hornady’s line of Superformance ammunition achieved significantly greater performance with the exact same brass case and bullet, because of powder optimization, not greater capacity.
Stainless case heads are not hot when they come out of the gun... that is true.
Since energy can not be destroyed but only converted or changed, the Stainless cases will impart more powder energy into velocity instead of absorbing powder energy into case head in the form of heat...which will impart a bit more velocity to the bullet under the same pressure, so stainless is a more efficient vessel.
That said, the larger increase in velocity is due to most likely a specific powder blend for the bullet. Ya see it all the time with some of the new powders a 150 fps faster in the same case, but change bullets a few weights heavier and the advantage disappears.
Phantom Defense is also using the NAS cases. I picked up a few hundred 556 77gr TMK rounds. Advertised Velocity is 2900 fps (18" barrel). I have only tried them in my 26" Bolt gun and got 2995 fps average 5 round 100 yrd groups averaged .66". I bought it to see how it works in a 14.5 AR but haven't had a chance yet. Actually Pretty happy with it.
What are the odds that the steel cases allow for high pressure loads without the warning signs that brass would have? So shooters think the ammo is fine but are in reality running 70K PSI loads.
I loaded a few NAS3 cases with 27.0gr of AA2520 and a 77gr SMK and got slightly over 3000fps from a 20in barrel. No "pressure signs" or erratic function, but I have the feeling it was too much. Not planning on doing it again.
The steel case does allow for much higher pressures than normal.
But in the AR platform you are limited to the same pressure as the brass cases...as the video states they are running slightly lower pressures and still achieving greater velocities.
How is this possible? Despite their claim to 8% increased in case capacity, our normal canister powders won't do that big of any velocity increase.
Staying with Max pressure of the 5.56 and adding the 8% increase in case capacity only gets you 56 fps with CFE223 and a S109 63 gr fmj in a 20" barrel.
The difference in powder charge was 27.9 to 30.78 grs of CFE223 but only gets 56 fps increase in velocity.
For the average guy it would be better to buy the loaded rds and forget reloading since it also appears hard to size the cases for those who tried.
I shoot lots of Sig hybrid cases, in various calibers, and they can be readily sized.
You can only push the pressures in bolt guns, and Not in any of today's civilian ARs which are limited in pressure by design.
As Hornady shows in it's load data manual with the 6 mm ARC, divided by Auto and bolt gun designs for that cartridge.
But in the AR platform you are limited to the same pressure as the brass cases...as the video states they are running slightly lower pressures and still achieving greater velocities.
How is this possible? Despite their claim to 8% increased in case capacity, our normal canister powders won't do that big of any velocity increase.
Staying with Max pressure of the 5.56 and adding the 8% increase in case capacity only gets you 56 fps with CFE223 and a S109 63 gr fmj in a 20" barrel.
The difference in powder charge was 27.9 to 30.78 grs of CFE223 but only gets 56 fps increase in velocity.
For the average guy it would be better to buy the loaded rds and forget reloading since it also appears hard to size the cases for those who tried.
I shoot lots of Sig hybrid cases, in various calibers, and they can be readily sized.
You can only push the pressures in bolt guns, and Not in any of today's civilian ARs which are limited in pressure by design.
As Hornady shows in it's load data manual with the 6 mm ARC, divided by Auto and bolt gun designs for that cartridge.
You are totally out of your mind!
I'd call you all kinds of names if it would do any good. STOP!
To Others....Warning...
DO NOT load this in any AR!!!
Of coarse no pressure signs ...that You recognize!... because you are totally ignorant of the stainless steel case head, and what to look for.
This is why I don't like give load data and if I do try to explain how I got there, with the hybrid cases.
Few follow directions and take short cuts, thinking it doesn't matter it chambered in my rifle...wrong.
There are so many fuckin morons on this site.
QL says 3034 fps at 78,609 psi in a 20" barrel with your load, at 2.260" mag length.
Do Not Do This Again! So you'll be around to learn from your mistakes.
If ya want the velocity they are getting buy their loaded ammo...as you may not have access to the powder that gets the velocity at the requirements of the AR pressure limits.
Look at the last two posts. The steel of an action is the pressure vessel that contains the controlled explosion going off in igniting a cartridge. No matter what material which the case is constructed.
A bolt action has a lot of steel, an AR, not so much. The AR only has the barrel extension and the chamber of the barrel to contain this with some rather small lugs on the bolt, surrounded by aluminum.
Believing that a steel or hybrid case is going to allow ignoring pressures is not safe. You can only shoot proof loads so many times before something will let go.
Been dark on here for a bit. Still putting rounds down range though. So far I've shot 1000+ of these cases in 223 bolt, gas & 300bo gas.
I originally wanted to try it for gas gun lost brass matches.
Been very impressed with these cases. Very consistent weight & size. I've yet to find one with a dented neck.
They have more head space then I'd like .008-.009 in 3 of my 223W. They have more neck tension than I'd prefer & I need a .2245 to have any effect on reducing tension. With .2235 you can barely feel it touch. Lot of spring back on these. Case necks are as thick or even a few 10ths thicker than brass. I tried a Lee collet die for shits and the thick steel neck laughed at it. At 24 cents a pc there not worth screwing with as far as reloading. They also have a slight flare on the mouth to help load flat back projectiles. None of these gripes seem to have any negative affect on accuracy though. I do think SD's are suffering a little on the 223 with the high neck tension & it's not super consistent on seating pressure.
I just prime, dry lube the necks, load, & kiss it with a taper crimp just to close the flare.
Case capacity 223 Shell Tech:
un-fired case with spent primer installed measured on FX120 = 31.76 h20
Fired case with spent primer intact = 33.14 h2o
Yes you read that right. They gain 1.34 gr when fired. cases expand in length .015" avg. and diameter .0065" avg. at the back end by design. In other words most of the capacity gain is upon firing. This feature frustrates the load development programs like Gordon's.
My first 18" AR ladder I started with my MK262 clone load in brass as a baseline = 2755fps
I stayed under what I'd seen other people load to with the same powder for my top end load and it was still screaming fast.
Shell tech ladder went from 2841 - 2949 & the sweet spot seemed to be at 2922 both SD and accuracy. Worth mentioning that this proof CF barrel is on the faster end of the spectrum.
All the above loads were with same bullet/primer/powder/COAL. At the low end 2841 primers were a little more rounded on the shell tech cases vs IVI brass. At 2922 they looked the exact same. At 2949 the shell tech started to show a little more flattening, but still no cratering.
Sorry pic is kind of shitty but this is the 2922 load next to the 2755 load.
Someone up-thread mentioned meh gains & I don't disagree when using a meh bullet like 77smk.
It's dam impressive from a 16" gun if you run the numbers on a 77RDF .228 G7 though.
Another benefit I saw that I haven't heard mentioned. Someone else please do this to confirm. In my 10.5" Suppressed AR these shell tech cases ejected clean as shit, almost no carbon.
Here's 4 fired with 1 unfired. Not cleaned or wiped down. I don't know how to explain this but I like it. Gun runs much cleaner with these vs brass.
These bastards still have neck tension after firing.
The loads in the 10.5" were very impressive. I'd consider the powder I used to be pretty optimal for 10.5 in the below loads. i.e. full burn or very close to it in 10.5" The loads below were not the fastest, just what I settled on.
Baseline XM193 55gr brass = 2739
64gr Nosler bonded @ 2.179 COAL = 2820
62gr Fusion @2.245 COAL = 2846
73 eldm factory Hornady Match = 2340 SD32
73 Shell Tech cci 450 coal 2.290 = 2661 SD18 With a 3x behind the Huey this is murdering a 500y full size IPSC
For the hell of it I tried my 18" 77smk Shell Tech load in the 10.5" powder is too slow for 10.5", but still gave 2534 SD11.5
No gas adjustments for any of that.
These cases are fucking ridiculous in the bolt gun.
Tack Class. 77gr max wt & 3000 max speed.
Attempt #1 Epic fail & I still haven't tried down loading to get down to speed. Probably just stick with Lake City brass for Tac class.
26" 8T Short action Customs Bart. ARC Nuke 2.0
Baseline Tac load
Brass case 77DRF @ 2.436 205M AA2520 = 2990
Same bullet/powder/primer/coal in Shell tech. Not same charge since increased cap.
My starting load in Shell Tech = 3105 next 3124 fail
77TMK @ 2.433 205M = 3120 & 3136 fail accurate but way to fast.
With heavies, Holly Crap!!
Shell Tech 88 eldm @2.5"coal N550 = 2976 SD 3.0
85gr Meade @2.460 N550 = 3065 SD 5.9
With Gordon's I'm using the smaller un-fired case capacity and the above loads are predicting 62K. At the larger fired capacity it's 56K. That said across the board these cases are beating speed predictions for a given powder even at the lower cap input. Ashamed to admit I went one step higher on both those loads. No pressure indications that I could perceive, but I'll be dropping the 88's to 2950 & the Meade's or 85.5 Bergers to around 3000. Both of those shot very well. I really want to get the 85.5 Berger's working but those have been finicky for me.
The 300 BO with Shell Tech has been great with what I've tried. So far only heavy- ish projectiles. 155-174 supers.
8" or 8.5" barrel I forgot & 8T.
I don't have much factory ammo for a baseline.
Factory Hornady Black 110 Vmax is pathetic at 1419fps Southern munitions 110 Vmax is better 1712fps
Shell Tech
170 Norma Tipstrike @2.260" = 1722
174 eldm-vt @2.260" = 1640
155 TMK @2.260" = 1933 SD was from 1.7 - 4.9 Powder/bullet/cci450 are playing well together. Still has 775 ft-lb @300y hits steel hard.
I originally wanted to try it for gas gun lost brass matches.
Been very impressed with these cases. Very consistent weight & size. I've yet to find one with a dented neck.
They have more head space then I'd like .008-.009 in 3 of my 223W. They have more neck tension than I'd prefer & I need a .2245 to have any effect on reducing tension. With .2235 you can barely feel it touch. Lot of spring back on these. Case necks are as thick or even a few 10ths thicker than brass. I tried a Lee collet die for shits and the thick steel neck laughed at it. At 24 cents a pc there not worth screwing with as far as reloading. They also have a slight flare on the mouth to help load flat back projectiles. None of these gripes seem to have any negative affect on accuracy though. I do think SD's are suffering a little on the 223 with the high neck tension & it's not super consistent on seating pressure.
I just prime, dry lube the necks, load, & kiss it with a taper crimp just to close the flare.
Case capacity 223 Shell Tech:
un-fired case with spent primer installed measured on FX120 = 31.76 h20
Fired case with spent primer intact = 33.14 h2o
Yes you read that right. They gain 1.34 gr when fired. cases expand in length .015" avg. and diameter .0065" avg. at the back end by design. In other words most of the capacity gain is upon firing. This feature frustrates the load development programs like Gordon's.
My first 18" AR ladder I started with my MK262 clone load in brass as a baseline = 2755fps
I stayed under what I'd seen other people load to with the same powder for my top end load and it was still screaming fast.
Shell tech ladder went from 2841 - 2949 & the sweet spot seemed to be at 2922 both SD and accuracy. Worth mentioning that this proof CF barrel is on the faster end of the spectrum.
All the above loads were with same bullet/primer/powder/COAL. At the low end 2841 primers were a little more rounded on the shell tech cases vs IVI brass. At 2922 they looked the exact same. At 2949 the shell tech started to show a little more flattening, but still no cratering.
Sorry pic is kind of shitty but this is the 2922 load next to the 2755 load.
Someone up-thread mentioned meh gains & I don't disagree when using a meh bullet like 77smk.
It's dam impressive from a 16" gun if you run the numbers on a 77RDF .228 G7 though.
Another benefit I saw that I haven't heard mentioned. Someone else please do this to confirm. In my 10.5" Suppressed AR these shell tech cases ejected clean as shit, almost no carbon.
Here's 4 fired with 1 unfired. Not cleaned or wiped down. I don't know how to explain this but I like it. Gun runs much cleaner with these vs brass.
These bastards still have neck tension after firing.
The loads in the 10.5" were very impressive. I'd consider the powder I used to be pretty optimal for 10.5 in the below loads. i.e. full burn or very close to it in 10.5" The loads below were not the fastest, just what I settled on.
Baseline XM193 55gr brass = 2739
64gr Nosler bonded @ 2.179 COAL = 2820
62gr Fusion @2.245 COAL = 2846
73 eldm factory Hornady Match = 2340 SD32
73 Shell Tech cci 450 coal 2.290 = 2661 SD18 With a 3x behind the Huey this is murdering a 500y full size IPSC
For the hell of it I tried my 18" 77smk Shell Tech load in the 10.5" powder is too slow for 10.5", but still gave 2534 SD11.5
No gas adjustments for any of that.
These cases are fucking ridiculous in the bolt gun.
Tack Class. 77gr max wt & 3000 max speed.
Attempt #1 Epic fail & I still haven't tried down loading to get down to speed. Probably just stick with Lake City brass for Tac class.
26" 8T Short action Customs Bart. ARC Nuke 2.0
Baseline Tac load
Brass case 77DRF @ 2.436 205M AA2520 = 2990
Same bullet/powder/primer/coal in Shell tech. Not same charge since increased cap.
My starting load in Shell Tech = 3105 next 3124 fail
77TMK @ 2.433 205M = 3120 & 3136 fail accurate but way to fast.
With heavies, Holly Crap!!
Shell Tech 88 eldm @2.5"coal N550 = 2976 SD 3.0
85gr Meade @2.460 N550 = 3065 SD 5.9
With Gordon's I'm using the smaller un-fired case capacity and the above loads are predicting 62K. At the larger fired capacity it's 56K. That said across the board these cases are beating speed predictions for a given powder even at the lower cap input. Ashamed to admit I went one step higher on both those loads. No pressure indications that I could perceive, but I'll be dropping the 88's to 2950 & the Meade's or 85.5 Bergers to around 3000. Both of those shot very well. I really want to get the 85.5 Berger's working but those have been finicky for me.
The 300 BO with Shell Tech has been great with what I've tried. So far only heavy- ish projectiles. 155-174 supers.
8" or 8.5" barrel I forgot & 8T.
I don't have much factory ammo for a baseline.
Factory Hornady Black 110 Vmax is pathetic at 1419fps Southern munitions 110 Vmax is better 1712fps
Shell Tech
170 Norma Tipstrike @2.260" = 1722
174 eldm-vt @2.260" = 1640
155 TMK @2.260" = 1933 SD was from 1.7 - 4.9 Powder/bullet/cci450 are playing well together. Still has 775 ft-lb @300y hits steel hard.
This video explains what I was talking about with the back of the case expanding both width and length. That little wave in the bottom probably flattens pretty quick so these kind of have a pressure shock absorber built in. I think this is contributing to keeping pressure down since case capacity increases so fast 
I also think the Yuge flash hole helps short barrels get powder lit quicker.
I also think the Yuge flash hole helps short barrels get powder lit quicker.
The data for the BlackArc stuff is very impressive, but the real question is how much pressure can the AR platform receiver& bolt really take over the long run, & I've never seen that published anywhere.
Even given the additional 8% case capacity, the pressure would still have to be something (well) above the 62K PSi of NATO ammo to get a 77/80 grain bullet to over 2900 FPS from an 18" barrel.
So I'd really like to see some real world numbers for pressure before I jump into using the BA stuff, attractive as it looks for specific applications.
And, as with bolt guns, the barrel throat, at least on raw stainless, is bound to see some (significant?) additional erosion. At what rate?
YMHO, YMMV
MM
Even given the additional 8% case capacity, the pressure would still have to be something (well) above the 62K PSi of NATO ammo to get a 77/80 grain bullet to over 2900 FPS from an 18" barrel.
So I'd really like to see some real world numbers for pressure before I jump into using the BA stuff, attractive as it looks for specific applications.
And, as with bolt guns, the barrel throat, at least on raw stainless, is bound to see some (significant?) additional erosion. At what rate?
YMHO, YMMV
MM
