Sidearms & Scatterguns Red dot or not on your "life or death" pistol?

[eastexsteve]

I don't use red dot sights on my "life or death" handguns. I do seem to shoot a bit better with them, but I've also found that it's one more thing to deal with if you have to quickly pull that gun in an emergency and quickly acquire a target. Yeah, you can make sure the battery is good and the button is pushed everytime you walk out the door. But, if you are like me, you might not even touch that gun for a month, and you don't have time to worry about whether or not the sight will function. But, when you draw it, you want to be able to quickly acquire a target and deal with a threat without having to push a button or move the gun a certain way to activate a sight. Not to mention, it's one more thing that can get hung up on clothing, or the inside of a computer bag.

What is the general consensus on using red dots on "life or death" handguns?

 

[vanrichten]

My pistols without red dots don’t ever get shot. My carry, bedside and whatever other pistols all have dots on them. I’m not sure I will ever want to shoot a non-dot pistol again. I’m doing research to find where to send my MK23 slide to be milled so I will enjoy shooting that again.

 

[Supersubes]

I don't use red dot sights on my "life or death" handguns. I do seem to shoot a bit better with them, but I've also found that it's one more thing to deal with if you have to quickly pull that gun in an emergency and quickly acquire a target. Yeah, you can make sure the battery is good and the button is pushed everytime you walk out the door. But, if you are like me, you might not even touch that gun for a month, and you don't have time to worry about whether or not the sight will function. But, when you draw it, you want to be able to quickly acquire a target and deal with a threat without having to push a button or move the gun a certain way to activate a sight. Not to mention, it's one more thing that can get hung up on clothing, or the inside of a computer bag.

What is the general consensus on using red dots on "life or death" handguns?

Dont turn the dots off, ever.

 

[vanrichten]

Dont turn the dots off, ever.

Exactly. I change my batteries every year and they never get turned off.

 

[MediumSpeed]

No red dot on my carry guns (though I am more accurate with a red dot.) I am slightly nearsighted - without my glasses I can shoot irons fine but a red dot is smeared and difficult.

 

[TACC]

I have red dots on everything from 22lr to 10mm. My eyes can't focus on front sights anymore. The holosun shake awake have been life savers for me.

 

[FRESHPRINCE556]

A big advantage of red dots on pistols for me is low light performance. Night sights whether it be 3 dot, I dot,a dot and line or only a tritium front sight are hard for me to align under stress and make an accurate shot fast in low/no light environments. But the red dot I pick up quick in low lighting conditions and can make quicker more precise shots under stress especially when speed counts. And if the battery dies I use and train with my cowitness irons as a back up. The only issue I have really ran into with red dot sights is when I lived in hot and humid south west Florida. It didnt matter in the summer if it was a pistol mounted red dot, rifle mounted red dot or a scope, going from inside a cool ac environment to the hot humid outside, you had to be aware that your view would be obstructed by condensation for a time. My quick fix to this issue was to wipe the condensation off quickly and then I was gtg. Red dots and back up iron sights for me on everything.

 

[SV_Dude]

I think that if you practice well and often, you shouldn’t really need either for anything under 50ft. If you’re in a holy shit situation, you’re not bearing down on the sights or a dot for defensive fire anyways. With that being said, I use irons on my daily carry for two reasons:

1) The daily carry needs to withstand being beat up often, compact as possible, and absolutely reliable.

— Sure, a good red dot will take a beating and still be reliable, and probably won’t affect the compactness of the pistol much. But it’s still something to consider and be aware of.

2) I just haven’t put a red dot on it yet.

— I will eventually put a SRO on my daily carry. I just haven’t cared enough yet since I can draw and naturally point well enough to hit a 5-8” target every time from 50 feet without focusing on the sights too much. I have focused my efforts on my rifles lately.

 

[SV_Dude]

A big advantage of red dots on pistols for me is low light performance. Night sights whether it be 3 dot, I dot,a dot and line or only a tritium front sight are hard for me to align under stress and make an accurate shot fast . But the red dot I pick up quick in any lighting conditions and can make quicker more precise shots under stress especially when speed counts. And if the battery dies I use and train with my cowitness irons as a back up. The only issue I have really ran into with red dot sights is when I lived in hot and humid south west Florida. It didnt matter in the summer if it was a pistol mounted red dot, rifle mounted red dot or a scope, going from inside a cool ac environment to the hot humid outside, you had to be aware that your view would be obstructed by condensation for a time. My quick fix to this issue was to wipe the condensation off quickly and then I was gtg. Red dots and back up iron sights for me on everything.

The condensation is a great point to add! Shooting in the rain is also a factor as well. I have always been a fair weather shooter and haven’t trained in adverse environment conditions since I was in the swing of deployments over a decade ago.

 

[cas6969]

My "life or death" dot guns also have usable iron sights. Otherwise they wouldn't be my "life or death" guns.

 

[wvfarrier]

I was a late comer to the pistol red dot game. I do not think I could ever go back. For me, they just make everything easier. I still practice irons but am nowhere near as accurate or fast

 

[xxflyingturtlexx]

Red dot on all pistols. From my observation a lot of people grab a gun with red dot and get disheartened because the dot immediately shows them the lack of their skills. I also observed from good friends and my family; a person who starts with a dot can shoot with irons very well.

If the dot blows, if this happens that happens are all excuses to self convince (cope) to avoid training.

i started with irons and my transition to dots was easy. Now i see an iron sight pistol and go “ewwww”.

 

[Ankeny]

I have literally shot many 10's of thousands of rounds through dot equipped handguns during my USPSA career in Open Division, and in Limited Optics Division. I am also a Limited Division (iron sight) Grandmaster. At 70 years old my vision is really jacked up, astigmatism, prisms in my glasses to correct double vision, and tri-focal glasses to boot. I had dots on my carry guns, but took them all off about a year ago. Iron sights with a target focus is all I need.

 

[up1911fan]

My pistols without red dots don’t ever get shot. My carry, bedside and whatever other pistols all have dots on them. I’m not sure I will ever want to shoot a non-dot pistol again. I’m doing research to find where to send my MK23 slide to be milled so I will enjoy shooting that again.

Pretty sure LTT can do their RDO plate on the MK23.

 

[Overton-AR]

I have only 1 pistol without a dot. It’s my low profile carry pistol for when I am wearing shorts and a tee. Everything else has a dot. Even my other daily carries.

 

[Potsy]

Age is a consideration, IMO…..

Once upon a time I’d have never considered a dot on anything. Then, in my late 40’s, iron sights started growing hair.
I can still shoot them, but they sure don’t appear in technicolor like they did before I got a bit far-sighted. My only dot is on a .22/45, it sure seems fast and easy…

 

[MO Fugga]

I need a good one that's not made in West Taiwan.

 

[Overton-AR]

Trijicon RMR-HD for the win.

 

[Jscb1b]

I'm at the point in life that the iron sights on my pistols are fuzzy. I'm going to put a rdo on a g19 and see if that helps.

 

[Milf Dots]

I put red dots on my red dots.

 

[tarheel7734]

I carry all my handguns with red dot sights. They are faster and more accurate than iron sights, especially in high stress environments and situations.

 

[Downtown]

Easy enough to have tall iron sights. My carry handgun has a dot, but muscle memory pretty much aligns the irons anyway. Then the dot is sitting at the top of the post. I guess I'm too old to trust only a dot so having both seems ideal.

 

[Mike Casselton]

No red dot on my carry guns (though I am more accurate with a red dot.) I am slightly nearsighted - without my glasses I can shoot irons fine but a red dot is smeared and difficult.

Try a green dot.

 

[CaptArab]

I carry dots but have a few Glocks with Dawson fiber optic front with blacked out rear and those sights work well for a hard target focus.

Less crap to mess with on a CCW like a 26 is nice.

Big fat hell no to 3 dot, etc style irons.

 

[Baron85]

I have switched over to dots on my favorite and most shot pistols including all of my carry guns except my micro compact that I only use when it has to be as small as possible.

Still have a bunch with irons that I practice with but carry and compete with dots. With enough practice I bet at most self defense distances I could hit what I needed without sights or dots…. Might need to test that theory.

 

[Tipsntails7]

Only gun I don’t have a dot on is a Glock 20 I use when backpacking or hunting. Normally in a chest rig or on my belt.

Had a dot on it. One time while on a stalk, I was crawling through brush and filled the entire back end of the dot with dirt and debris that dried like a little cake. Didn’t notice it until I got back to camp.

Would have been a bad day if I needed it and looked at the sight picture to find a giant mud mount.

Now they have holsters with optic guards, so probably not as big a deal with the right set up.

 

[gigamortis]

Out to about 7 yards, I'm faster and just as accurate at speed with irons. I feel hindered with a dot at 7 yards and in.

Dots definitely have and advantage at distances beyond that. A lot of people that shoot dots regularly like in the shooting sports develop a good index through repetition to find the dot fast from the draw. A dot on a smaller carry gun that you don't shoot often might present a problem finding the dot in a hurry.

 

[tarheel7734]

Out to about 7 yards, I'm faster and just as accurate at speed with irons. I feel hindered with a dot at 7 yards and in.

Dots definitely have and advantage at distances beyond that. A lot of people that shoot dots regularly like in the shooting sports develop a good index through repetition to find the dot fast from the draw. A dot on a smaller carry gun that you don't shoot often might present a problem finding the dot in a hurry.

You dont find the dot. You focus on your target and bring the pistol up and the dot superimposes on the target. you dont focus on the dot like you do a front sight.

 

[gigamortis]

You dont find the dot. You foc8s on your target and bring the pistol up and the dot superimposes on the target. you dont focus on the dot like you do a front sight.

I do use target focus with a dot. So much so that when I switch back to an iron sight pistol, I find myself still using target focus for a little while.

One still needs a good index with their pistol so that the dot reliably shows up for them in a timely manner.

 

[dzeke]

Personally, at this point, I'm of the opinion a dot on a pistol is like a scope on a rifle. Unless I'm doing something intentional that requires irons, limited division in uspsa, hunting with a iron sighted muzzleloader, or shooting a single action revolver, I don't even consider iron sights. With the quality of electronics and optics available now, and the overwhelming advantage of a dot, it's a no brainer for me. Just my opinion. To be fair, my carry guns do have useable irons, that never get used .

 

[flogxal]

If you are young with eyes that focus fast and switch focal planes fast, irons are okay if you've trained them up like any smart shooter would. But RDS is demonstrably faster -- there are top-level competition shooters aplenty who can tell you, they were top of the heap with irons and with RDS even faster still. You eliminate the time lost to fine-focus and focal plane shift with irons. But you shoot RDS differently and if you have a lifetime of irons, you have a bit of work ahead of you. Fun work, though, IMO.

 

[flogxal]

Try a green dot.

And maybe a larger MOA dot as well. 1 MOA and 2 MOA dots can be smeary/blobby to the slightest astigmatism, but 6 MOA dots tend to look "round" as they should. I really like the fatter dot on the Holosun EPS.

If you shoot precision rifle you may tend to want the tiniest dot possible on your RDS but give both little and medium/fat dots a try to see if fatter is better on smears etc.

 

[hafejd30]

I’ve shot dots several times and I’m still faster and more comfortable with irons. I think it’s a personal preference. For longer range accuracy a dot would be beneficial. For inside 10 yards I prefer my irons. No batteries and just plain old instinct when pulling up the pistol

I did my qualification shoot last week for LE and shot better with my G19 than many others shooting dots along side me

I think a lot of it has to do with age and your eyes. Some guys hate irons where I struggle with dots. I think both have strong points going for them from low light performance to ease of carry.

If I could have only one it be the dot. I’d train more with it and become proficient. I think it has more benefits vs irons. I’d have iron backups of course. I don’t trust my life to a battery

 

[Franko]

I'm not much of a pistol shooter but once I hit middle age I had to switch to red dots due to my vision degrading. I would not go back.

 

[MediumSpeed]

Try a green dot.

I actually have, two 19s both with a 507 on them one red, one green. My eyes like the red better but I'll give it another try - thanks!

 

[Milf Dots]

I actually have, two 19s both with a 507 on them one red, one green. My eyes like the red better but I'll give it another try - thanks!

Try a different brand of green dot because every brand looks a bit different- Trijicon, Vortex, Sig Sauer, offer green dot pistol optics.

 

[clcustom1911]

I don't use red dot sights on my "life or death" handguns. I do seem to shoot a bit better with them, but I've also found that it's one more thing to deal with if you have to quickly pull that gun in an emergency and quickly acquire a target. Yeah, you can make sure the battery is good and the button is pushed everytime you walk out the door. But, if you are like me, you might not even touch that gun for a month, and you don't have time to worry about whether or not the sight will function. But, when you draw it, you want to be able to quickly acquire a target and deal with a threat without having to push a button or move the gun a certain way to activate a sight. Not to mention, it's one more thing that can get hung up on clothing, or the inside of a computer bag.

What is the general consensus on using red dots on "life or death" handguns?

So, I've only gotten red dots on pistols not even 2 years ago and I'd been using irons for the previous 28-ish years . Since aboit 2003 ive been carrying assorted weapons for defense (and sometimes offensive) purposes.

Things I've learned along the way:

If you have to push a button, you're wrong. If you have to manually adjust brightness, you're wrong. If you don’t have backup iron sights, you're wrong. If you have questions about your optics reliability after only 1 month, you're turbo wrong.

My personal Trijicon RMR's and RMRcc's sit for months. I change the batteries once a year, regardless of usage, with the best quality batteries I can find, which are Energizer Ultimate Lithium super-duper ultra whatever-the-fuck.

Never any issues.

Stop complaining about issues of The Poors: Get quality optics which dont require buttons to be pushed etc.... because your life, or someone else's might depend on it.

 

[NFAJohn]

Was on the fence for years about the topic, took the plunge and couldn’t possibly consider going back. Mine is carried daily and has had the absolute piss beat out of it.

Sidearms & Scatterguns - RMRHD Running Review

I recently picked up a RMRHD after some input from others here https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/red-dot-dilemma.7215163/ and thought I'd do a running review of the optic. Couple of disclaimers, I'm a regular dude who A didn't receive this thing for free (be cool if I did tho) and B...

www.snipershide.com

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Don't buy shit red dots and they always work/are on.

It's a dumb take but then again the less competent people with guns the less of a threat they are to competent shooters.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I think that if you practice well and often, you shouldn’t really need either for anything under 50ft. If you’re in a holy shit situation, you’re not bearing down on the sights or a dot for defensive fire anyways. With that being said, I use irons on my daily carry for two reasons:

1) The daily carry needs to withstand being beat up often, compact as possible, and absolutely reliable.

— Sure, a good red dot will take a beating and still be reliable, and probably won’t affect the compactness of the pistol much. But it’s still something to consider and be aware of.

2) I just haven’t put a red dot on it yet.

— I will eventually put a SRO on my daily carry. I just haven’t cared enough yet since I can draw and naturally point well enough to hit a 5-8” target every time from 50 feet without focusing on the sights too much. I have focused my efforts on my rifles lately.

Talks about a gun getting beat up then decides to put most fragile trijicon dot made on a carry gun. Logical......

 

[clcustom1911]

And maybe a larger MOA dot as well. 1 MOA and 2 MOA dots can be smeary/blobby to the slightest astigmatism, but 6 MOA dots tend to look "round" as they should. I really like the fatter dot on the Holosun EPS.

If you shoot precision rifle you may tend to want the tiniest dot possible on your RDS but give both little and medium/fat dots a try to see if fatter is better on smears etc.

I do 6 moa sized dots on my pistols. 6moa size dot at 25y is about 1.5 inches. Even on my Mp5k I have 6moa. No need for 1-2moa on pistols or PDW's.

 

[ironpony52]

I do not have safeties on any of my guns because under stress I may forget to disengage it ........................but I have a dot that may or may not function and I have to find in the glass

sarcasm disclaimer.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

We ran a failure test w/dot's on pistols vs irons, the results surprised everyone.
Should the dot fail for any reason, it adds between 3/4's to two seconds +, of lag time in a 60' barrier free venue,.... do your own math.
Irons will work just fine even past 100yds, a supposed shortcut may not be all it's touted as,...

 

[MikeMiller]

I am a boomer so I grew up using iron sights
A few years ago my pistol shooting started going bad because de I could not get good sight picture with iron sights anymore

I switched to a red dot and my pistol shooting is back to very good

I found not all red dots are equal. I have settled on Vortex Defenders and no issues in last couple of years. The new ones with enclosed emitters are my favorite ones
Before the Defenders I was using a Delta point Pro which is good but I was always adjusting the dot brightness because it would blur if too bright because I have a nystagmus

I have tried the new Burris Fastfire. e. Not bad but glass is sup par when doing long shots 50 plus yards.
Meprolight MPO. Not bad but mounting system sucks
Trijicon HD. Very good but cost is crazy

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

We ran a failure test w/dot's on pistols vs irons, the results surprised everyone.
Should the dot fail for any reason, it adds between 3/4's to two seconds +, of lag time in a 60' barrier free venue,.... do your own math.
Irons will work just fine even past 100yds, a supposed shortcut may not be all it's touted as,...

Tell that to every competent pistol shooter from high level military, law enforcement and competitive shooters. There is a reason a dot is used. It's vastly superior.

The same idiots were probably touting the same shit when the aimpoint came out...and how iron sighted m16 and m4 were more reliable.....meanwhile.....

 

[MikeMiller]

Tell that to every competent pistol shooter from high level military, law enforcement and competitive shooters. There is a reason a dot is used. It's vastly superior.

The same idiots were probably touting the same shit when the aimpoint came out...and how iron sighted m16 and m4 were more reliable.....meanwhile.....

View attachment 8786248

I teach pistol, carbine and rifle
The red dot is so much easier to get students to hit consistently with so no doubt it’s far superior to irons

In addition you don’t need a perfect sight picture with a red dot

Red dots are here to stay.

I tell people all the time
Once horse cavalry ruled the battlefield but times change. Adapt or die

I choose to adapt

 

[calling4life]

Didn't perform better with red dots, so iron sights.

Though I still have a red dot on one that I play with to make sure that doesn't change, I do fine with either, neither has a statistically significant advantage over the other for me.

 

[hlee]

Don’t turn the dot off. Change the battery on your birthday, or new years, or your anniversary, etc. Check the dot before you leave the house.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Tell that to every competent pistol shooter from high level military, law enforcement and competitive shooters. There is a reason a dot is used. It's vastly superior.

The same idiots were probably touting the same shit when the aimpoint came out...and how iron sighted m16 and m4 were more reliable.....meanwhile.....

I said " Should the dot fail for any reason"

 

[hlee]

I use the Force, because the irons could be knocked off of zero, or otherwise be improperly regulated.