• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Engraving a serial number to my brass...

E

EROCO

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 21, 2010
166
0
55
I would like to be able to serialize each brass in a batch that way I don't need to re weight sort them each time and also to be able to track it's behavior on each firing.

It will also allow me to record certain attributes of it's performance in the brass lifespan..

The goal is to be able to pre identify potential flyers so they don't get used in a match that might cost me a point here or there..

Is there a laser engraver or something I can use to do this?
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

I use sticky lables on the box I keep the brass in.

Box goes to shooting range, cartrige comes out, goes in chamber, goes bang, comes out, and is placed back in the box. Box comes home and is reloaded and a new sticker goes on.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use sticky lables on the box I keep the brass in.

Box goes to shooting range, cartrige comes out, goes in chamber, goes bang, comes out, and is placed back in the box. Box comes home and is reloaded and a new sticker goes on. </div></div>

I have that too but above and beyond that is tracking each brass performance..

If you are not going to add any useful info go post somewhere else. Thanks.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

I'm not sure each brass in a batch will behave the same during that lots lifetime. Some will stretch more than others and need trimmed sooner and that will make the weight differ than a non trimmed one or it could split and need to be pitched.

Had to think about posting, didn't want to appear what you are looking to do is above and beyond what may be needed but to each their own and what you are wanting to do may be of some benefit but I'm not sure even BR shooters do that.

Am curious as two what others have found if they also keep such meticulous records of each piece of brass. Usually just keeping each batch together and doing a batch trim when needed after your initial weighing and sorting is about all most do.

Topstrap
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Maybe use your log book in conjunction with the labels in your brass case.

ex:
week1 - B6 was a flyer (row B in box, brass #6 in row).
week1 - B6 was flyer again, toss.

The magic of paper and pencil.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

No reason to be an ass to Mitch for giving you a way to do it.

Engraving the body will be tough as the brass when fired will more than likely flow into the engraving and it won't be read to well. Maybe a small mark on the head of the case would work.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are not going to add any useful info go post somewhere else. Thanks. </div></div>

Douche chill
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Um, yeah........never mind.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure each brass in a batch will behave the same during that lots lifetime. Some will stretch more than others and need trimmed sooner and that will make the weight differ than a non trimmed one or it could split and need to be pitched.

Had to think about posting, didn't want to appear what you are looking to do is above and beyond what may be needed but to each their own and what you are wanting to do may be of some benefit but I'm not sure even BR shooters do that.

Am curious as two what others have found if they also keep such meticulous records of each piece of brass. Usually just keeping each batch together and doing a batch trim when needed after your initial weighing and sorting is about all most do.

Topstrap </div></div>

I wouldnt pursue this so much but my little proof of concept suggests there may be something to this in that a flyer from a previous firing may once again be a flyer..

I just want to study this in a bigger more thorough scale, I'm just asking on how to identify the brass because they do go on a tumbler for cleaning once in a while and I lose track of its position in the batch.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No reason to be an ass to Mitch for giving you a way to do it.

Engraving the body will be tough as the brass when fired will more than likely flow into the engraving and it won't be read to well. Maybe a small mark on the head of the case would work. </div></div>

Noted. Thanks for the info.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

One of more OCD types at our local club does that with a vibratory engraving pencil, like the police used to tell you engrave your DL number on the TV, etc. He has a small "short hand" code he engraves on each case just above the extractor groove to signify the steps done on each case during prep as well as number of firing, times annealed, etc. The whole mark isn't much bigger than 1/8" x 1/4" and consists of various hash marks, dots, and dashes. It seems to hold up well, he has been doing for years. Heaven help us if he looses a case during a match, he will hold the whole line up until that one case is found.

He can tell you the lineage of every case he shoots at a glance. Hasn't made a lick of difference in his performance in many years. Same guy set the range on fire many years ago using nitrated wood chips mixed in with surplus cannon powder to load .308 rounds. The guy is a wealth of knowledge, but I prefer to be on the other end of the range when he is firing.

Doug Giraud
Giraud Tool Company, Inc.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dhg2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One of more OCD types at our local club does that with a vibratory engraving pencil, like the police used to tell you engrave your DL number on the TV, etc. He has a small "short hand" code he engraves on each case just above the extractor groove to signify the steps done on each case during prep as well as number of firing, times annealed, etc. The whole mark isn't much bigger than 1/8" x 1/4" and consists of various hash marks, dots, and dashes. It seems to hold up well, he has been doing for years. Heaven help us if he looses a case during a match, he will hold the whole line up until that one case is found.

He can tell you the lineage of every case he shoots at a glance. Hasn't made a lick of difference in his performance in many years. Same guy set the range on fire many years ago using nitrated wood chips mixed in with surplus cannon powder to load .308 rounds. The guy is a wealth of knowledge, but I prefer to be on the other end of the range when he is firing.

Doug Giraud
Giraud Tool Company, Inc. </div></div>

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

Life would be boring as hell, without 'em........
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

I actually have something to add and have several decades of experience to back up what I say, some of what I add you may like and some you will not, but when you ask you can't specify only the info that supports your position. When you ask a question you may not hear exactly what you want to hear.

Engraving pencil just forward of the extraction groove should remain quite readable as this area is not SUPPOSED to be flowing when fired. Come up with a code that you understand easily and requires few letters and numbers but the use of both will make it easy.

This is an incredible waste of time, my late father called it "pissin in the wind".
Knock yourself out.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Not as high tech as engraving but a sharpie will do this. Could it be polished off in a tumbler, maybe. Ultrasonic would most likely remove it. One mark or ring around the brass for one batch, two marks or rings for the second batch ect. This is also a decent way of finding your brass on the ground at a match amongst the other brass.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Years ago I tried using a sharpie to make dots on the extractor groove to correspond to the number of times a case had been resized. The dots never survived the tumbler so I gave up.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Yeah tumbler takes the sharpie right off. I write my loads on my brass during load development just in case I spill them.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Use some 1/8 inch metal alpha numeric stamping dies, and a 2 lb sludge hammer and stamp the info in the side of the case. Wurks for me.....
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

If I were to do this (and I wouldn't) I would just use a very small traingular file and cut VERY small notches along the rim. You could basically use a pattern similar to braille marks that could corrospond to a serial number like a dumb version of a bar code. I am just not that anal.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Weight sorting and case capacity have long been known to be completely unrelated. The only proven method of sorting cases is to cc them.
If you still want to do that well...God bless you!
smile.gif


While I'm out on the ledge let me table another wild one.
smile.gif


If your cases are blueprinted and the rifle is dialed with an OCW tracking a problem back to a specific case should be tough if not impossible.
What I am suggesting is that there should be more forgiveness in a good load than you can resolve with minor case discrepancies.
Said another way if your OCW load prints to the same POI 0.2-0.3 grains apart do you really think it is possible to see the difference in a case?

I spend enough time and detail developing my OCW to make Newberry himself puke.
That said, of the thousands and thousands of dollars I have spent on high dollar reloading and measuring equipment the biggest accuracy gains to date have been in maximizing the forgiveness of my OCW.

Before my OCW revelation (
smile.gif
) I numbered the top of the ammo box and shot the cases in order. A case with a bad shot got a single center punch in the case head from a little glass breaker I keep in my shooting kit.
Three punches and the case was gone (was the idea), but I ended up with a lot of one and two punched cases.....YMMV.


 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X-fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That said, of the thousands and thousands of dollars I have spent on high dollar reloading and measuring equipment <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">the biggest accuracy gains to date have been in maximizing the forgiveness of my OCW</span></span>.



</div></div>

That is a very much excellent point to make.....well said.

I've probably searched countless times how to convey that very thought, and doh, there it is..........
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

First of all, I agree with the man above that suggested it might be impertinent to ask those that offer advice to stick it, when they disagree. You asked, you should listen. Period

But, look. Instead of trying to create a file for each piece of brass, you should group cases for their similarities. In 200 pieces, I grade them in groups of 50. Then, (here's the hi tech part) I scratch a small mark on the head stamp. I use a carbide scratch awl and put the mark on one side of 22-250, or on the other side.

Then, for the rest, I put the scratch on one side of (I WW) or the other, (WW I) This system has held up through numerous firings and tumblings. The big secret is exactly how you grade your cases.

As far as the unexplained fliers, you should snag them puppies right on the bench. They get special treatment. No need for an individual rap sheet on each case. I'm anal, but that's approaching insanity. I have heard of benchresters that use a single case and keep reloading it, and that solves the problem of inconsistent internal capacity. BB

edit: PS Good job on handling x with kid gloves, I believe is how you put it?
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

EROCO, what's up bro? When I went to Matt T's pad to do some precision loading for my .50 he had me do exactly what you are talking about.....using an electic etching dremel or some similar tool and engraved #'s next to the headstamp, it does work. Hope to get back to the matches soon!
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Hey bud:) see you soon at the next match:)

I'm getting worked over here, lol

It was just an idea I wanted to follow up on, lol

So far Ive been called a douche, pissin in the wind, OCD..this is worst than grade school..

Back to reloading..
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Oh brother! If it's grade school, you set the tone. BB
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So far Ive been called a douche, pissin in the wind, OCD.. </div></div>
Well atleast you can win 1k yd matches and get some smoking scores! that's what counts ha! ha!
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey bud:) see you soon at the next match:)

I'm getting worked over here, lol

It was just an idea I wanted to follow up on, lol

So far Ive been called a douche, pissin in the wind, OCD..this is worst than grade school..

Back to reloading.. </div></div>

That's telling of what we are dealing with here, my grade school memories are so faded off in the distance I wonder now if they are even real.

You're CLEARLY missing the point here, or points as it may be....

You might be greener than newborn grass, which might excuse you in most circles, but most of us think this a silly idea, I personally wouldn't bother. Any case marking I might do is a code in fine point sharpie on the primer during load work up to differentiate between powder charges or other variables, in case I tip over the box......but beyond that the whole point is to make everything as consistant as possible case to case, load to load.

Which is what most of us do.....which, by default negates the need to waste any further brain index on it.

You're surely not breaking any new ground with this because you can bet your last primer that somebody has thought of it already and the reason you don't see much of it is because it's not worth the bother if you are paying attention to the more important issues.

The other point you are missing is to give it a go if you want to try it as it won't hurt a thing and you'll find a benefit with the trial and error of it, one way or the other. It's your time and effort to waste, not ours.

My personal opinion is to make good ammo from the git go, and learn how to shoot it, and things will solidify quite nicely sans a bunch of magic voodoo shit.......
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

I have a question for you. If you are a winning 1000yd match shooter, why are you asking morons like me this burning question? There probably isn't more than 100yrs of combined experience between all the guys that remind you of grade school. We have better things to do than hang out and answer questions in the reloading section. I couldn't give two fucks about whether you take my advice, or listen to the moron in the gunstore that KNOWS super secret magic loading procedures.
Sounds to me like someone you know in real life could have told you all you wanted to know, which makes this thread look like a troll.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sounds to me like someone you know in real life could have told you all you wanted to know, which makes this thread look like a troll.</div></div>[[agreeing with armorpl8chickn]]

I just got here (late to the party) but the very first thought I had was "why the hell should we do their work for them"?

Call me paranoid, but any idiot out there who thinks positively about serializing brass or bullets or primers or combustive compounds is definitely NOT one of us. Considering all the variables influenced on the exterior ballistics, this has less viability and effect than a sparrow fart about 10' to the right of your target.

Anything you need to 'track' can be done by prior sorting, as well as with a sharpie at the range. When you get home, sort your marked brass into 'lots' and deal with them accordingly.

After all, for this to have any trackable effect, your going to have to have buckets of each 'differential' to which you can statistically and unequivocally prove your 'concept' to fruition.

Let me know when you've got that much, and when you're that good so that we all can watch you win each and ever match there is. Until then, park your DAMNED liberal and ANTI rhetoric somewhere else.

I can't believe that this is even a topic on this site.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

I can't speak for the other replies but I have only been doing this for twenty some odd years. I'm sure there are people who can double that number for reloading in this forum. It has been from basic reloading to advanced techniques with varying degrees of success on my efforts. Having ammo that seems to be perfect is a great feeling until the exterior conditions make more of a difference that the highly tuned ammo. I guess what I am getting at is if you have mastered the "conditions" then chase after more performance from your loads.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If you are not going to add any useful info go post somewhere else. Thanks. </div></div>

Useful?

Votes are in and counted: EROCO scores high!

IDEAS OF LIMITED VALUE
*SECOND PLACE*

Better luck next time. BB
(just kidding, we love ya)
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to be able to serialize each brass in a batch that way I don't need to re weight sort them each time and also to be able to track it's behavior on each firing.

It will also allow me to record certain attributes of it's performance in the brass lifespan..

The goal is to be able to pre identify potential flyers so they don't get used in a match that might cost me a point here or there..

Is there a laser engraver or something I can use to do this?
</div></div>


Use a carbide tipped engraver to engrave a number on the case head in the form of base 5 dots and hash marks. One dot is piece #1; once you get 5 dots they get condensed into one hash mark and you start another set of 5. As follows:

1 dot is piece one (.)
2 dots is piece two (..), on up to piece 4 (....)

Piece 6 is a scratch (/) where the scratch represents 5dots
Piece 7 is a scratch and two dots(/..)
Piece 9 is a scratch and 4 dots (/....)

Piece 10 is now 2 scratches, 12 would be two scratches and 2 dots, etc. This method will carry you up to 25 pieces of brass. Making the marks on the head precludes damaging the side of the case and causing a blow out. Just be sure to lightly smooth the edges of your marks. You can use a manual or electric engraver.

Good luck with a good idea. You'll find pieces of brass that give consistently poor performance, usually due to uneven wall thickness or differing volumes.

 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

I can just picture the hanging-file box with a rap-sheet for each case.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use sticky lables on the box I keep the brass in.

Box goes to shooting range, cartrige comes out, goes in chamber, goes bang, comes out, and is placed back in the box. Box comes home and is reloaded and a new sticker goes on. </div></div>

I have that too but above and beyond that is tracking each brass performance..

If you are not going to add any useful info go post somewhere else. Thanks. </div></div>



If you shoot good enough to tell or need to label each piece of brass i need you to give me reloading and shooting lessons
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My personal opinion is to make good ammo from the git go, and learn how to shoot it, and things will solidify quite nicely sans a bunch of magic voodoo shit....... </div></div>

That's it right there...... Especially the shooting part.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

One experiment you could do is when you get a flier, take that piece of brass and put it in a bucket. Before you know it the bucket will be full and you'll be realizing that you have a loose nut behind the trigger.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

I'm of two different views on this...

One... for day-to-day shooting in practice or in matches... the time/effort spent keeping track of this sort of thing is probably better spent in other areas.

Two... I occasionally have an itch to test something in a serialized and repeatable manner. Normally just putting the case back in the same hole it came out of the ammo box does the trick - so long as you are satisfied with just cleaning the outside of the neck and maybe brushing the inside of the neck. If a person wanted to clean their cases internally via ultrasonic or wet tumbling w/ ss pins... some sort of engraved marking might be fairly handy. I've done a very basic version of this by notching the case rim with a needle file on a particular case that I suspected of being a problem child.

I'm in no way saying I'd consider this for my 'regular use' brass... but I do have a project or two in mind where the '.' and '|' markings described above might prove very useful for the relatively small test batches involved.

YMMV,

Monte
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to be able to serialize each brass in a batch that way I don't need to re weight sort them each time and also to be able to track it's behavior on each firing.

It will also allow me to record certain attributes of it's performance in the brass lifespan..

The goal is to be able to pre identify potential flyers so they don't get used in a match that might cost me a point here or there..

Is there a laser engraver or something I can use to do this? </div></div>

How about acid etching???

http://www.etching-metal.com/etching/acidmetal.htm


It's something I've thought of before but never could talk myself into for various reasons. Most of those reasons have been mentioned by the others in this thread. Also I felt like I'd have to start measuring or weighing bullets, pointing them, weighing primers, reaming primer pockets and other things I'm not thinking of right now. If I were a benchrest shooter and only had to do this to a small number of cases I might have considered trying these but I'm not.

Years ago Alinwa had a interesting article over at benchrest central endeavoring to eliminate flyers in his 6x47L by identifying the case walls that were uneven. He sorting them out by using a wider reamer than is normal in relation to the web of the case and culling the cases that popped out unevenly on one side too far once they were fireformed. IIRC his groups were consistently in the .2's or there abouts.

There was another article at 6mm benchrest.com called IIRC "the old Houston warehouse". These were benchrest shooters wanting to take wind out of the equation concerning accuracy. IIRC the jist of their opinion was uniform neck tension was critical for producing the best groups.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

the acid etching looks promising, also a place like this locally if you have it.

http://www.acculaserengraving.com/

this is the guy that did my SBR lower, and also the same guy that does some of the Barrett rifles. i would send him a batch, ~100 or so, and then keep a log book or spreadsheet of each one. just have him number them 001-100 or however many you need. then as you need ship him additional brass.

i too agree that it would probably yield little or no results, but hey , why not if you have the time.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

If I had a piece of brass that I thought was contributing to fliers I would file a notch in the rim. If it did it again with the same case I would give it to one of my competitors...

How far out of the group does it have to be for you to consider it a flier? Are you using windflags to eliminate wind as the culprit? How accurate is the gun? Are you shooting the dot drill and coming up with reasons for missing?

Why would you want to etch your brass? Why am I involving myself in this thread??...
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Acid etching looks like a good way to go. Looking at that etching-metal site, the initial template creation looks like it would require some time and also the actual etching would require more time. Is it worth it? I'm guessing for the internet plinker, where only the hits and unbelievably best groups count - probably not. For a competitive shooter, where scores are close and reducing or eliminating variables can help - the time spent is probably worth it.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

Maybe, but I'm unconvinced?

Seems like the paperwork, all the documentation would have so many subcategories that, in the end, it would result in nothing but confusion?

Do you really think that round #85 will suddenly become glaringly apparent as the one culprit that has been costing you all those victories?

Can you really know the reason why a particular round printed out of the group? Was it neck tension, case volume, wind, ambient temperatures, moon phase, or your lucky socks?

How much will it cost to laser 200 cases with consecutive serial numbers? Hmm, couldn't hurt? BB
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to be able to serialize each brass in a batch that way I don't need to re weight sort them each time and also to be able to track it's behavior on each firing.

It will also allow me to record certain attributes of it's performance in the brass lifespan..

The goal is to be able to pre identify potential flyers so they don't get used in a match that might cost me a point here or there..

Is there a laser engraver or something I can use to do this? </div></div>

Is this a serious question? It has so many responses im starting to wonder...

But really place all empty casings mouth up, you get a bad flyer, place that one head up in your ammo holder... Reload a batch of just "flyer cases" and see if they group or all are still "flyers" easy way to test your theory of "bad" cases. Simple enough.

Your best bet if you want to make the most of your reloading and shooting would be to spend less time figuring out how to complicate the use of expendibles (brass) and spend more time at the range reading wind (that will save you afew points!)

Im willing to bet mis-reading wind drops more points then some inconsistancy with one or two casings.
 
Re: Engraving a serial number to my brass...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BGEFIVEFOURONE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to be able to serialize each brass in a batch that way I don't need to re weight sort them each time and also to be able to track it's behavior on each firing.

It will also allow me to record certain attributes of it's performance in the brass lifespan..

The goal is to be able to pre identify potential flyers so they don't get used in a match that might cost me a point here or there..

Is there a laser engraver or something I can use to do this? </div></div>

Is this a serious question? It has so many responses im starting to wonder...

But really place all empty casings mouth up, you get a bad flyer, place that one head up in your ammo holder... Reload a batch of just "flyer cases" and see if they group or all are still "flyers" easy way to test your theory of "bad" cases. Simple enough.

Your best bet if you want to make the most of your reloading and shooting would be to spend less time figuring out how to complicate the use of expendibles (brass) and spend more time at the range reading wind (that will save you afew points!)

Im willing to bet mis-reading wind drops more points then some inconsistancy with one or two casings.

</div></div> BINGO!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
Why is my lapua 223 brass not chambering and sizing?
Replies
171
Views
2K
Haney
H
S
Warshing Brass
Replies
10
Views
428
Xathane
X
P
6.5 Grendel - Early Pressure Signs
Replies
0
Views
214
penguinofsleep
P
RackSqueezeBang
Trouble Shoot Sudden POI Drop
Replies
10
Views
224
Slides
Slides
J
Accessories 6 BRA Brass, Barrel, FL Die for Sale (See Notes)
Replies
3
Views
326
jjshooots
J
Top Bottom
Back