Why is my lapua 223 brass not chambering and sizing?

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Hey, I forgot to do that amidst all this primer piercing talk. Hang on, I'll get it.

Also my firing pin measures .076" that's probably a big reason why I'm piercing primers right?

I'm getting 1.458" on the fired cases on my comparator...so a .003" difference.

Thats short still with a horn comparator honestly. It's not detrimentally short, but it doesn't look like he made it .005" longer does it?

With a newer horn comp, 1.460" is a good chamber size imo, but I wouldn't want it shorter. That said, it's probably a combo of : hot load, your firing pin, and your chamber still being short, which is causing the primers to pierce .

 

[kyotekiller25]

Thats short still with a horn comparator honestly. It's not detrimentally short, but it doesn't look like he made it .005" longer does it?

With a newer horn comp, 1.460" is a good chamber size imo, but I wouldn't want it shorter. That said, it's probably a combo of : hot load, your firing pin, and your chamber still being short, which is causing the primers to pierce .

Yah it looks like he only cut it maybe .003"-.004" deeper when I specifically told him .005"

I'm afraid to even bring it up to him at this point, for fear of him telling me to just fuck off now. I think he was getting .001" larger difference on his gauge, so it could be 1.459" but I dunno for sure. Now I'm kind of pissed off all over again. It did chamber my longest lapua cases at 1.459" like butter tho, so it has to be at least that you would think? I bet it's like 1.4595" on his gauge.

I'm just hoping I can just size the Lapuas down a thou or two and just forget it. He's not going to be happy if I call him and ask to cut it another thou or two deeper...Hell probably just want to shave my dies. Which I'm sure he's done before, because he told me he made a jig to do so...

So basically I need my current pin bushed, or get a smaller one altogether, from my limited research correct?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Yah it looks like he only cut it maybe .003"-.004" deeper when I specifically told him .005"

I'm afraid to even bring it up to him at this point, for fear of him telling me to just fuck off now. I think he was getting .001" larger difference on his gauge, so it could be 1.459" but I dunno for sure. Now I'm kind of pissed off all over again. It did chamber my longest lapua cases at 1.459" like butter tho, so it has to be at least that you would think? I bet it's like 1.4595" on his gauge.

I'm just hoping I can just size the Lapuas down a thou or two and just forget it. He's not going to be happy if I call him and ask to cut it another thou or two deeper...Hell probably just want to shave my dies. Which I'm sure he's done before, because he told me he made a jig to do so...

So basically I need my current pin bushed, or get a smaller one altogether, from my limited research correct?

Correct, .062 or smaller.

.076 is huge. I was piercing cheap primers with a .068, but it worked with more expensive primers (M205 and CCI 450)

I am not sure I follow the brass part of your post, though. "It did chamber my longest Lapua cases . . ." So I am not sure I understand the need or desire to cut the chamber any deeper. It sounds like it is fixed. Or am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Brass isn't going to fully fire form off one firing, usually.

Have you tested this?

I asserted that to a buddy who shot back that it absolutely does, he has checked it, and he has never heard of brass not fully growing to the chamber size in one firing.

I realized I have never experimented to see whether this is true, and read it online (probably here), so I shut my mouth, as I really did not know what I was talking about.

Do you? Have you checked this yourself? I am really curious what is the correct answer - does brass bump out the shoulders all the way in one firing?

 

[kyotekiller25]

Correct, .062 or smaller.


I am not sure I follow the brass part of your post, though. "It did chamber my longest Lapua cases . . ." So I am not sure I understand the need or desire to cut the chamber any deeper. It sounds like it is fixed. Or am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

So prior to him cutting it again yesterday, my fired brass was measuring 1.455" on my hornady comparator. My new lapua and starline brass was measuring 1.458"-1.459" I then found out my basic rcbs dies would not size them at all. So I brought it back to him yesterday and told him I wanted it cut to 1.460" so I could chamber my lapua brass first off, and secondly resize them.

So today, I measured the lapua fired cases and they're at 1.458" so technically, according to my same tool I measured before, it's coming out to be only a .003" difference.

However yes, my longest piece of lapua brass was chambering nice and easy at 1.459"

I think there must be a discrepancy of our separate measurement tools by a thousandth, or maybe 2. Which I wouldn't doubt, but it's just concerning to me that from my same measurement tool, the differnece is only showing .003" and not the .005" I has asked for.

If my dies will size these cases 2 thousands down, then it's whatever, I won't even mention it him. However if they don't, I think I need to bring it to his attention yet again...

 

[Kadams1563]

OP just get it chambered in .223AI at this point since you want to run as much powder as you can in the case lol.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Yah it looks like he only cut it maybe .003"-.004" deeper when I specifically told him .005"

I'm afraid to even bring it up to him at this point, for fear of him telling me to just fuck off now. I think he was getting .001" larger difference on his gauge, so it could be 1.459" but I dunno for sure. Now I'm kind of pissed off all over again. It did chamber my longest lapua cases at 1.459" like butter tho, so it has to be at least that you would think? I bet it's like 1.4595" on his gauge.

I'm just hoping I can just size the Lapuas down a thou or two and just forget it. He's not going to be happy if I call him and ask to cut it another thou or two deeper...Hell probably just want to shave my dies. Which I'm sure he's done before, because he told me he made a jig to do so...

So basically I need my current pin bushed, or get a smaller one altogether, from my limited research correct?

Yeah I get it. Maybe your brass still has a thou to go.... If it chambers fine then it should be fine. Check it on the next firing and see if it's grown any. You should be able to size the lapua down a thou or two now so not a huge issue and your brass might show another thou on 2nd firing. That happens a lot.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Brass isn't going to fully fire form off one firing, usually.

FWIW, Hornady max for a 75ELDM and N540 (23.6) and 4895 (23.3) are below where you're blanking primers. Probably not the firing pin, but keep going for 3100 fps and it'll probably self correct

Yah well QL and vihtavouri show 25.8g at 2960 and 3050fps, and QL shows 25g with 4895 at 3050 so there ya go. Maybe it might, thanks for your help yet again...

These are ladder tests to find pressure, not where the fuck I'm gonna be doing load testing, once again...

 

[kyotekiller25]

OP just get it chambered in .223AI at this point since you want to run as much powder as you can in the case lol.

Just going by QL and vihtavouri to find max in my rifle, but thanks for the great words of widsom...

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Have you tested this?

I asserted that to a buddy who shot back that it absolutely does, he has checked it, and he has never heard of brass not fully growing to the chamber size in one firing.

I realized I have never experimented to see whether this is true, and read it online (probably here), so I shut my mouth, as I really did not know what I was talking about.

Do you? Have you checked this yourself? I am really curious what is the correct answer - does brass bump out the shoulders all the way in one firing?

Yes I have. It depends is all I know. I have had brass grow on the 2nd firing but not a lot, only a thou or 1.5 thou. I've also had brass not grow on the 2nd firing, but that could well be determined by the amount available to grow in the chamber and other factors

 

[kyotekiller25]

Correct, .062 or smaller.

.076 is huge. I was piercing cheap primers with a .068, but it worked with more expensive primers (M205 and CCI 450)

I am not sure I follow the brass part of your post, though. "It did chamber my longest Lapua cases . . ." So I am not sure I understand the need or desire to cut the chamber any deeper. It sounds like it is fixed. Or am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

Thank you. Who does bushing besides Greg Tannel? He is not accepting any work right now sadly. Any other recommendations??

 

[kyotekiller25]

Sure man, keep going. No pressure signs yet, why's that primer got a hole in it

Obviously not going any higher...damn man, I must look retarded huh? Books are a guide, everything is a guide. I stopped when I pierced a primer at below powder manufacturers book data with the bullet I was using. Some of you guys act like this is my first day reloading...

You're forgetting the biggest issue here is probably the big ass fucking firing pin I have, or you just don't care and like talking shit, which probably is the latter I'm guessing...

 

[M_R_Woodard]

PM Carlsbad on here or accurate shooter. He bushed the bolt on my 700 6.5x47 and it looks great. No more primer cratering.

 

[kyotekiller25]

PM Carlsbad on here or accurate shooter. He bushed the bolt on my 700 6.5x47 and it looks great. No more primer cratering.
View attachment 8377104View attachment 8377105

Thank you. I actually tried joining accurate shooter last night just to get ahold of him. Didn't know he was a member here.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

PM Carlsbad on here or accurate shooter. He bushed the bolt on my 700 6.5x47 and it looks great. No more primer cratering.
View attachment 8377104View attachment 8377105

What size firing pin now?

 

[triumph001]

Thank you. Who does bushing besides Greg Tannel? He is not accepting any work right now sadly. Any other recommendations??

LRI is who you seek. Might even get a twofer by getting your headspace right where you want it all at the same time.

GUNSMITHING SERVICES: STRIKER PIN BUSHING: M7, M700, M70(PF AND CRF), ACCURACY INTERNATIONAL, BERGARA, HOWA 1500, & RUGER RPR

A relatively frequent complaint with M700 and Accuracy International actions (and others) are cratered primers with factory made ammunition. The root cause of this is from excessive clearance between the striker and the hole through the bolt face. When fired, the primer cup flows into the void...

www.longriflesinc.com

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Thank you. Who does bushing besides Greg Tannel? He is not accepting any work right now sadly. Any other recommendations??

Which action are you shooting?

 

[kyotekiller25]

Which action are you shooting?

R700

 

[kyotekiller25]

LRI is who you seek. Might even get a twofer by getting your headspace right where you want it all at the same time.

GUNSMITHING SERVICES: STRIKER PIN BUSHING: M7, M700, M70(PF AND CRF), ACCURACY INTERNATIONAL, BERGARA, HOWA 1500, & RUGER RPR

A relatively frequent complaint with M700 and Accuracy International actions (and others) are cratered primers with factory made ammunition. The root cause of this is from excessive clearance between the striker and the hole through the bolt face. When fired, the primer cup flows into the void...

www.longriflesinc.com

Perfect! Thank you sir!

 

[M_R_Woodard]

What size firing pin now?

.058 is what my caliper shows

 

[Dolomite]

Have you tested this?

I asserted that to a buddy who shot back that it absolutely does, he has checked it, and he has never heard of brass not fully growing to the chamber size in one firing.

I realized I have never experimented to see whether this is true, and read it online (probably here), so I shut my mouth, as I really did not know what I was talking about.

Do you? Have you checked this yourself? I am really curious what is the correct answer - does brass bump out the shoulders all the way in one firing?

It should fully form to the chamber if you jam the bullet in the lands first firing. Pinning the face of the brass against the bolt face.

Or shoot a hot load but this way stretches the base and blows out it out fast but you sacrifice the brass stretching and not hardening at the base. creates shorter brass life and could eventually have case head separation.

 

[Haney]

Fact...Brass may or may not fully form on first firing . Anyone with experience will know this, anyone that contests it needs more experience . Same guys don't understand why their OAL shrank at times .