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Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Time to pull out of Afghanistan. We got Bin Laden. Just seems like we are doing more to piss off the locals and the criminal activity in our own military is becoming more common.
Time to pull out of Afghanistan. We got Bin Laden. Just seems like we are doing more to piss off the locals and the criminal activity in our own military is becoming more common.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
this is not going to be good at all and with all the recent tension of Koran burning. It will cause more reprisals from Afghan troops against American troops. This of course will cause more animosity between the forces and more difficulty in training. It is time to reevaluate our requirements in Afghanistan. No good can be had going forward. The security structure we are building for them far exceeds their annual GDP by quite a bit. And, that means NATO will be paying for Afghan security for years to come - hard to do when you ARE OUT OF MONEY!!!
this is not going to be good at all and with all the recent tension of Koran burning. It will cause more reprisals from Afghan troops against American troops. This of course will cause more animosity between the forces and more difficulty in training. It is time to reevaluate our requirements in Afghanistan. No good can be had going forward. The security structure we are building for them far exceeds their annual GDP by quite a bit. And, that means NATO will be paying for Afghan security for years to come - hard to do when you ARE OUT OF MONEY!!!
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is not going to be good at all and with all the recent tension of Koran burning. It will cause more reprisals from Afghan troops against American troops. This of course will cause more animosity between the forces and more difficulty in training. It is time to reevaluate our requirements in Afghanistan. No good can be had going forward. The security structure we are building for them far exceeds their annual GDP by quite a bit. And, that means NATO will be paying for Afghan security for years to come - hard to do when you ARE OUT OF MONEY!!!</div></div>
This ^^^
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is not going to be good at all and with all the recent tension of Koran burning. It will cause more reprisals from Afghan troops against American troops. This of course will cause more animosity between the forces and more difficulty in training. It is time to reevaluate our requirements in Afghanistan. No good can be had going forward. The security structure we are building for them far exceeds their annual GDP by quite a bit. And, that means NATO will be paying for Afghan security for years to come - hard to do when you ARE OUT OF MONEY!!!</div></div>
This ^^^
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
We found that mine with that chemical they use for LCD TV screens. China stated they will no longer sell it directly but will manufacture TV's.
Afghanistan has the worlds largest supply of that.
Think we're leaving any time soon? Doubtful, This Gomer of a president has had 4 chances to pull out of there and has not.
We found that mine with that chemical they use for LCD TV screens. China stated they will no longer sell it directly but will manufacture TV's.
Afghanistan has the worlds largest supply of that.
Think we're leaving any time soon? Doubtful, This Gomer of a president has had 4 chances to pull out of there and has not.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Ah but you all fail to realize one thing. It seems everyone over there is failing as well in this realization:
By Islamic culture and the words of the Koran, everything that happens is the Will of Allah. If those Koran's were supposed to be burned, it was Allah's Will. If those people were supposed to die, that too was the Will of Allah. The ways things happen are not to be looked at, but the end result is nothing but the Will of Allah. Allah is the means, Allah is the way. No thing happens without it being the Will of Allah. Mash Allah!
Ah but you all fail to realize one thing. It seems everyone over there is failing as well in this realization:
By Islamic culture and the words of the Koran, everything that happens is the Will of Allah. If those Koran's were supposed to be burned, it was Allah's Will. If those people were supposed to die, that too was the Will of Allah. The ways things happen are not to be looked at, but the end result is nothing but the Will of Allah. Allah is the means, Allah is the way. No thing happens without it being the Will of Allah. Mash Allah!
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.
Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
I don't condon this at all, but I can't understand the different outrage when one of their soldiers goes wacko and shoots our soldiers who are training them.
Seems like a different standard.
I don't condon this at all, but I can't understand the different outrage when one of their soldiers goes wacko and shoots our soldiers who are training them.
Seems like a different standard.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
That is not what we need more of, the details are still fuzzy as to why he targeted those individuals, but we certainly dont need you promoting what seems to be condoning the killing of women and children.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
That is not what we need more of, the details are still fuzzy as to why he targeted those individuals, but we certainly dont need you promoting what seems to be condoning the killing of women and children.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
That is the most retarded fucking thing you could say. Soldier's kill combatants, and civilian casualties occur as a result, but the targeting of civilians, women and children included, is nothing more than murder for the sake of self gratification. Makes you no better than a terrorist yourself...
Back to the OP...
Fuck... Just another excuse for politicians to think they should run the show. Shit happens and people go off the deep-end abroad and at home, but all the suits on The Hill will see is the Military "out of control" and they'll tighten the reins even further and make it even harder to get the job done...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
That is the most retarded fucking thing you could say. Soldier's kill combatants, and civilian casualties occur as a result, but the targeting of civilians, women and children included, is nothing more than murder for the sake of self gratification. Makes you no better than a terrorist yourself...
Back to the OP...
Fuck... Just another excuse for politicians to think they should run the show. Shit happens and people go off the deep-end abroad and at home, but all the suits on The Hill will see is the Military "out of control" and they'll tighten the reins even further and make it even harder to get the job done...
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
Yes this is the Bear pit but your statement is out of line and extremely disturbing. I hate THE ENEMY as much as anyone else but the killing of woman/children is wrong. You can rationalize it all you want by saying "these children would have grown up to be terrorist" but thats bullshit. Ive lost friends and family over there but your ideology is close to demonic.
They feel the same way you do, they don't agree with our way of life or religion but is it ok for one of their soldiers to slaughter 16 of our civilians? Why not in their mind they are doing what they believe. It's still wrong in all aspects, so that makes you no different from them. I would be ashamed of yourself as a man.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
Yes this is the Bear pit but your statement is out of line and extremely disturbing. I hate THE ENEMY as much as anyone else but the killing of woman/children is wrong. You can rationalize it all you want by saying "these children would have grown up to be terrorist" but thats bullshit. Ive lost friends and family over there but your ideology is close to demonic.
They feel the same way you do, they don't agree with our way of life or religion but is it ok for one of their soldiers to slaughter 16 of our civilians? Why not in their mind they are doing what they believe. It's still wrong in all aspects, so that makes you no different from them. I would be ashamed of yourself as a man.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
There are people, both military and civilian, whose cries for help are routinely dismissed and no one is surprised when they later act on their delusions. Examples are sometimes, and unfortunately, closer to home:
On murder: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.</div></div>On homosexuals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These fucking homos have ruined my Marine Corps, makes me sick knowing they call themselves Marines. At least I have some solace knowing they will burn in hell for eternity for their sins. </div></div>On shooting:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last range in Mi I went to range rules are only one round allowed in the mag at a time. One RSO for every three lanes and these clowns are trying to teach people to zero their optics shooting one round at a time. So now I just go find an abandoned building downtown and shoot a few mags and leave. </div></div>On sponsorship:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting firearms sponsor's pissed me off but talking shit about the Marines, this mother fucker needs to die. Marines need to hold one last fight for the troops and murder this mother fucker and all his "fighters" that show up on international television. </div></div>On obeying ITAR rules:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have any friends in the states just have them purchase it and DHL it to you. </div></div>On building an SBR:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's only illegal if you get caught. </div></div>On law enforcement:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did they execute him for killing crackheads? They should have put a badge on him and gave him a job. </div></div>On the American public:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fucking hate the American public...</div></div>
There are people, both military and civilian, whose cries for help are routinely dismissed and no one is surprised when they later act on their delusions. Examples are sometimes, and unfortunately, closer to home:
On murder: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.</div></div>On homosexuals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These fucking homos have ruined my Marine Corps, makes me sick knowing they call themselves Marines. At least I have some solace knowing they will burn in hell for eternity for their sins. </div></div>On shooting:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last range in Mi I went to range rules are only one round allowed in the mag at a time. One RSO for every three lanes and these clowns are trying to teach people to zero their optics shooting one round at a time. So now I just go find an abandoned building downtown and shoot a few mags and leave. </div></div>On sponsorship:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting firearms sponsor's pissed me off but talking shit about the Marines, this mother fucker needs to die. Marines need to hold one last fight for the troops and murder this mother fucker and all his "fighters" that show up on international television. </div></div>On obeying ITAR rules:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have any friends in the states just have them purchase it and DHL it to you. </div></div>On building an SBR:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's only illegal if you get caught. </div></div>On law enforcement:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did they execute him for killing crackheads? They should have put a badge on him and gave him a job. </div></div>On the American public:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fucking hate the American public...</div></div>
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
"A Law needs to be made,,,," Quick everyone!!!! Alert your Representative. Make a law and all will be well.
(gag-choke-puke-hack-snork)
"A Law needs to be made,,,," Quick everyone!!!! Alert your Representative. Make a law and all will be well.
(gag-choke-puke-hack-snork)
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
What that dude did was murder, plain and simple. He should be punished accordingly. No laws of war justify what he did. They were women and children, not women and children with suicide vests on. If you actually believe what he did was right, you're sick and need some help. Seriously, get some help.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
What that dude did was murder, plain and simple. He should be punished accordingly. No laws of war justify what he did. They were women and children, not women and children with suicide vests on. If you actually believe what he did was right, you're sick and need some help. Seriously, get some help.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are people, both military and civilian, whose cries for help are routinely dismissed and no one is surprised when they later act on their delusions. Examples are sometimes, and unfortunately, closer to home:
On murder: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.</div></div>On homosexuals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These fucking homos have ruined my Marine Corps, makes me sick knowing they call themselves Marines. At least I have some solace knowing they will burn in hell for eternity for their sins. </div></div>On shooting:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last range in Mi I went to range rules are only one round allowed in the mag at a time. One RSO for every three lanes and these clowns are trying to teach people to zero their optics shooting one round at a time. So now I just go find an abandoned building downtown and shoot a few mags and leave. </div></div>On sponsorship:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting firearms sponsor's pissed me off but talking shit about the Marines, this mother fucker needs to die. Marines need to hold one last fight for the troops and murder this mother fucker and all his "fighters" that show up on international television. </div></div>On obeying ITAR rules:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have any friends in the states just have them purchase it and DHL it to you. </div></div>On building an SBR:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's only illegal if you get caught. </div></div>On law enforcement:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did they execute him for killing crackheads? They should have put a badge on him and gave him a job. </div></div>On the American public:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fucking hate the American public...</div></div></div></div>
Ok, so we now see what prescription meds and living in moms basement can do for someones mental state.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are people, both military and civilian, whose cries for help are routinely dismissed and no one is surprised when they later act on their delusions. Examples are sometimes, and unfortunately, closer to home:
On murder: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.</div></div>On homosexuals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These fucking homos have ruined my Marine Corps, makes me sick knowing they call themselves Marines. At least I have some solace knowing they will burn in hell for eternity for their sins. </div></div>On shooting:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last range in Mi I went to range rules are only one round allowed in the mag at a time. One RSO for every three lanes and these clowns are trying to teach people to zero their optics shooting one round at a time. So now I just go find an abandoned building downtown and shoot a few mags and leave. </div></div>On sponsorship:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting firearms sponsor's pissed me off but talking shit about the Marines, this mother fucker needs to die. Marines need to hold one last fight for the troops and murder this mother fucker and all his "fighters" that show up on international television. </div></div>On obeying ITAR rules:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have any friends in the states just have them purchase it and DHL it to you. </div></div>On building an SBR:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's only illegal if you get caught. </div></div>On law enforcement:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did they execute him for killing crackheads? They should have put a badge on him and gave him a job. </div></div>On the American public:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fucking hate the American public...</div></div></div></div>
Ok, so we now see what prescription meds and living in moms basement can do for someones mental state.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Was he being the change he wanted to see, or was he seeing the change he wanted to be?
This man has done nothing but go off the deep end. He has done nothing that almost anyone who has served and lost friends hasn't at least thought of in some way.
This is a man who was failed, and so, he failed.
Anything he did right would be seen as a success of the system, but the system just rejects him as an individual when he does what any person would do when they are left to their thoughts and routinely ignored, or merely given a few pills and told to keep on keeping on.
Did he murder? Yes.
How did he even make the leap across the wire? Security is a two way thing.
If this man was an Afghan national who made his way INTO a camp, everyone would be screaming about security and wanting officers hanged and privates article 15'd.
There is no security in Afghanistan, just the illusion.
It happened to be an American, this time, who discussed the indecency of the emperor's nudity.
That he chose to express himself in such a manner is only indicative of the human condition.
Was he being the change he wanted to see, or was he seeing the change he wanted to be?
This man has done nothing but go off the deep end. He has done nothing that almost anyone who has served and lost friends hasn't at least thought of in some way.
This is a man who was failed, and so, he failed.
Anything he did right would be seen as a success of the system, but the system just rejects him as an individual when he does what any person would do when they are left to their thoughts and routinely ignored, or merely given a few pills and told to keep on keeping on.
Did he murder? Yes.
How did he even make the leap across the wire? Security is a two way thing.
If this man was an Afghan national who made his way INTO a camp, everyone would be screaming about security and wanting officers hanged and privates article 15'd.
There is no security in Afghanistan, just the illusion.
It happened to be an American, this time, who discussed the indecency of the emperor's nudity.
That he chose to express himself in such a manner is only indicative of the human condition.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah but you all fail to realize one thing. It seems everyone over there is failing as well in this realization:
By Islamic culture and the words of the Koran, everything that happens is the Will of Allah. If those Koran's were supposed to be burned, it was Allah's Will. If those people were supposed to die, that too was the Will of Allah. The ways things happen are not to be looked at, but the end result is nothing but the Will of Allah. Allah is the means, Allah is the way. No thing happens without it being the Will of Allah. Mash Allah! </div></div>
well said
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah but you all fail to realize one thing. It seems everyone over there is failing as well in this realization:
By Islamic culture and the words of the Koran, everything that happens is the Will of Allah. If those Koran's were supposed to be burned, it was Allah's Will. If those people were supposed to die, that too was the Will of Allah. The ways things happen are not to be looked at, but the end result is nothing but the Will of Allah. Allah is the means, Allah is the way. No thing happens without it being the Will of Allah. Mash Allah! </div></div>
well said
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
I say everytime an American gets wacked, we send a tomahawk into a Mosque.
Thats should stop the BS pretty fast.
I say everytime an American gets wacked, we send a tomahawk into a Mosque.
Thats should stop the BS pretty fast.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say everytime an American gets wacked, we send a tomahawk into a Mosque.
Thats should stop the BS pretty fast. </div></div>
OR..... we declare victory and leave.
Afghanistan is an economic, political, and moral disaster for US interests, enough already.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say everytime an American gets wacked, we send a tomahawk into a Mosque.
Thats should stop the BS pretty fast. </div></div>
OR..... we declare victory and leave.
Afghanistan is an economic, political, and moral disaster for US interests, enough already.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say everytime an American gets wacked, we send a tomahawk into a Mosque.
Thats should stop the BS pretty fast. </div></div>
Only if you and Switchblade are in the Mosque at the time, but then, the mushroom cloud could push your collective BS into the stratosphere and cover an area much larger than simply the inter-webs...
One guy went psycho. From the commentary here in other threads explaining the effects of war on soldiers, I'm surprised this hasn't happened earlier and more often - something that might be said to show the quality of troops and control over there.
It'll be a clusterfuck but if for no other reason that the Afghans have got a clusterfuck of a govt in place who will stoke the fires of their populace to make them seem unlike the handout taking, corrupt bumpkins they are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say everytime an American gets wacked, we send a tomahawk into a Mosque.
Thats should stop the BS pretty fast. </div></div>
Only if you and Switchblade are in the Mosque at the time, but then, the mushroom cloud could push your collective BS into the stratosphere and cover an area much larger than simply the inter-webs...
One guy went psycho. From the commentary here in other threads explaining the effects of war on soldiers, I'm surprised this hasn't happened earlier and more often - something that might be said to show the quality of troops and control over there.
It'll be a clusterfuck but if for no other reason that the Afghans have got a clusterfuck of a govt in place who will stoke the fires of their populace to make them seem unlike the handout taking, corrupt bumpkins they are.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"A Law needs to be made,,,," Quick everyone!!!! Alert your Representative. Make a law and all will be well.
(gag-choke-puke-hack-snork) </div></div>
They should outlaw war, that would be a good start
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"A Law needs to be made,,,," Quick everyone!!!! Alert your Representative. Make a law and all will be well.
(gag-choke-puke-hack-snork) </div></div>
They should outlaw war, that would be a good start
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
This is one of those VERY rare cases when I think he should be handed over to the host nation for justice. He wasn't doing anything remotely related to his job when he just up and decided to murder a bunch of people in their homes. Make all the excuses you want, but there are thousands of soldiers and Marines that have gone through the same shit that HAVEN'T made the decision to go on a murder spree. Questionable shootings on patrols, accidents, etc we should protect our soldiers by keeping them in our judicial system. A guy wandering off into the night to go on a murder spree...that's a whole different story.
As for the Afghan soldiers killing their ISAF trainers...I hate to say it, but they are legitimate targets. Women and children being shot in their homes is not even REMOTELY equivalent.
This is one of those VERY rare cases when I think he should be handed over to the host nation for justice. He wasn't doing anything remotely related to his job when he just up and decided to murder a bunch of people in their homes. Make all the excuses you want, but there are thousands of soldiers and Marines that have gone through the same shit that HAVEN'T made the decision to go on a murder spree. Questionable shootings on patrols, accidents, etc we should protect our soldiers by keeping them in our judicial system. A guy wandering off into the night to go on a murder spree...that's a whole different story.
As for the Afghan soldiers killing their ISAF trainers...I hate to say it, but they are legitimate targets. Women and children being shot in their homes is not even REMOTELY equivalent.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Excellent post Mustafa, very well said.
Excellent post Mustafa, very well said.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for the Afghan soldiers killing their ISAF trainers...I hate to say it, but they are legitimate targets. </div></div>
...!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for the Afghan soldiers killing their ISAF trainers...I hate to say it, but they are legitimate targets. </div></div>
...!
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
If you join the Army and go to Afghanistan, you are a legitimate target. Just because you aren't infantry doesn't mean you aren't part of the military and can't be engaged. If an ally betrays you and stabs you in the back, it's douchey, but not illegal.
An Afghan soldier that is either a plant from the insurgents or has been won over to the insurgents side, that shoots an ISAF member that is a legal combatant, it is just a fundamentally different thing than if an Afghan soldier in the US for training, walked off base and slaughtered a few families in their sleep.
If you join the Army and go to Afghanistan, you are a legitimate target. Just because you aren't infantry doesn't mean you aren't part of the military and can't be engaged. If an ally betrays you and stabs you in the back, it's douchey, but not illegal.
An Afghan soldier that is either a plant from the insurgents or has been won over to the insurgents side, that shoots an ISAF member that is a legal combatant, it is just a fundamentally different thing than if an Afghan soldier in the US for training, walked off base and slaughtered a few families in their sleep.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Official apology issued by our president. I'm still waiting for an apology from Afghanistan's President for certain past events that get little media attention, but are as bad if not worse.
Official apology issued by our president. I'm still waiting for an apology from Afghanistan's President for certain past events that get little media attention, but are as bad if not worse.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Don't hold your breath Silver Bullet. Karzai and his cronies are some real pieces of work... It makes me sick that we are still dealing with them like they are actually serving the Afghan people instead of just their own bank accounts.
Don't hold your breath Silver Bullet. Karzai and his cronies are some real pieces of work... It makes me sick that we are still dealing with them like they are actually serving the Afghan people instead of just their own bank accounts.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is one of those VERY rare cases when I think he should be handed over to the host nation for justice. He wasn't doing anything remotely related to his job when he just up and decided to murder a bunch of people in their homes. Make all the excuses you want, but there are thousands of soldiers and Marines that have gone through the same shit that HAVEN'T made the decision to go on a murder spree. Questionable shootings on patrols, accidents, etc we should protect our soldiers by keeping them in our judicial system. A guy wandering off into the night to go on a murder spree...that's a whole different story.
As for the Afghan soldiers killing their ISAF trainers...I hate to say it, but they are legitimate targets. Women and children being shot in their homes is not even REMOTELY equivalent. </div></div>
I agree, oboviously the jury is still out on this, but if it is true, the guy did HUGE harm to his fellow soldiers and the image of the USA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is one of those VERY rare cases when I think he should be handed over to the host nation for justice. He wasn't doing anything remotely related to his job when he just up and decided to murder a bunch of people in their homes. Make all the excuses you want, but there are thousands of soldiers and Marines that have gone through the same shit that HAVEN'T made the decision to go on a murder spree. Questionable shootings on patrols, accidents, etc we should protect our soldiers by keeping them in our judicial system. A guy wandering off into the night to go on a murder spree...that's a whole different story.
As for the Afghan soldiers killing their ISAF trainers...I hate to say it, but they are legitimate targets. Women and children being shot in their homes is not even REMOTELY equivalent. </div></div>
I agree, oboviously the jury is still out on this, but if it is true, the guy did HUGE harm to his fellow soldiers and the image of the USA.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Mustafa,
If our own justice system can't handle this guy, then why should we even have it? Shouldn't it be fixed instead of handing this guy over for a kangaroo trial, replete with him being unable to sit properly because he has been raped repeatedly or otherwise just sodomized with an object not attached to anyone?
You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?
What number should we draw the line at to do such a thing? If a soldier goes apeshit and kills 3, is that still prosecutable by the US? At what point do the Afghan people have better justice?
If they have better justice, why aren't we bringing them here to train us, instead of being there training them?
We need to just pull out. Afghanistan is hopeless. Those people don't, and will not, understand the Western mindset.
The guy breached security and murdered 16 people. He's obviously the type of person that would pass a psych test.
Mustafa,
If our own justice system can't handle this guy, then why should we even have it? Shouldn't it be fixed instead of handing this guy over for a kangaroo trial, replete with him being unable to sit properly because he has been raped repeatedly or otherwise just sodomized with an object not attached to anyone?
You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?
What number should we draw the line at to do such a thing? If a soldier goes apeshit and kills 3, is that still prosecutable by the US? At what point do the Afghan people have better justice?
If they have better justice, why aren't we bringing them here to train us, instead of being there training them?
We need to just pull out. Afghanistan is hopeless. Those people don't, and will not, understand the Western mindset.
The guy breached security and murdered 16 people. He's obviously the type of person that would pass a psych test.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Q: Are you retarded?</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are people, both military and civilian, whose cries for help are routinely dismissed and no one is surprised when they later act on their delusions. Examples are sometimes, and unfortunately, closer to home:
On murder: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.</div></div>On homosexuals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These fucking homos have ruined my Marine Corps, makes me sick knowing they call themselves Marines. At least I have some solace knowing they will burn in hell for eternity for their sins. </div></div>On shooting:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last range in Mi I went to range rules are only one round allowed in the mag at a time. One RSO for every three lanes and these clowns are trying to teach people to zero their optics shooting one round at a time. So now I just go find an abandoned building downtown and shoot a few mags and leave. </div></div>On sponsorship:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting firearms sponsor's pissed me off but talking shit about the Marines, this mother fucker needs to die. Marines need to hold one last fight for the troops and murder this mother fucker and all his "fighters" that show up on international television. </div></div>On obeying ITAR rules:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have any friends in the states just have them purchase it and DHL it to you. </div></div>On building an SBR:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's only illegal if you get caught. </div></div>On law enforcement:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did they execute him for killing crackheads? They should have put a badge on him and gave him a job. </div></div>On the American public:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fucking hate the American public...</div></div> </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">A: Yup.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Q: Are you retarded?</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are people, both military and civilian, whose cries for help are routinely dismissed and no one is surprised when they later act on their delusions. Examples are sometimes, and unfortunately, closer to home:
On murder: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job Soldier, we need more men like you willing to get the job done. Not all these soft bitch's that make up the military nowadays.</div></div>On homosexuals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These fucking homos have ruined my Marine Corps, makes me sick knowing they call themselves Marines. At least I have some solace knowing they will burn in hell for eternity for their sins. </div></div>On shooting:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last range in Mi I went to range rules are only one round allowed in the mag at a time. One RSO for every three lanes and these clowns are trying to teach people to zero their optics shooting one round at a time. So now I just go find an abandoned building downtown and shoot a few mags and leave. </div></div>On sponsorship:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting firearms sponsor's pissed me off but talking shit about the Marines, this mother fucker needs to die. Marines need to hold one last fight for the troops and murder this mother fucker and all his "fighters" that show up on international television. </div></div>On obeying ITAR rules:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have any friends in the states just have them purchase it and DHL it to you. </div></div>On building an SBR:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's only illegal if you get caught. </div></div>On law enforcement:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did they execute him for killing crackheads? They should have put a badge on him and gave him a job. </div></div>On the American public:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fucking hate the American public...</div></div> </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">A: Yup.</span>
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide. </div></div>
That will never happen. We wont turn anyone over to another country no matter how bad the crime. He will face Our Military Justice system.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide. </div></div>
That will never happen. We wont turn anyone over to another country no matter how bad the crime. He will face Our Military Justice system.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
It's a senseless tragic symbol of what this war has become, it's time to leave
It's a senseless tragic symbol of what this war has become, it's time to leave
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Having my boots on the ground I have 2 opinions about this. The only one that really maters is it will be hard living in Kabul the next few days. The Karan thing was BS enough but this will likely stir the shit again making it a pretty bad time to be a white face devil in soft skin on the streets of this fair town....
The other opinion is not PC nor correct.....
Having my boots on the ground I have 2 opinions about this. The only one that really maters is it will be hard living in Kabul the next few days. The Karan thing was BS enough but this will likely stir the shit again making it a pretty bad time to be a white face devil in soft skin on the streets of this fair town....
The other opinion is not PC nor correct.....
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Well I hope you get back home safe along with the rest of our troops, stay alert.
And thank you
Well I hope you get back home safe along with the rest of our troops, stay alert.
And thank you
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
How pathetically naive from some. This shit has been going on for ages and every occupying force has ran into the same problems with fighting asymmetrical occupational war. It will only get worse especially with death toll from "supposed victory" rising each year on both(all) sides. This prolonged conflict only serves those who benefit from war and i highly doubt general population of this planet will be better off with this conflict dragging on.
To me deployment of our (yes our forces are also there) forces there should end immediately, all help/money flowing to that shit hole should stop and that's it. If someone starts speaking shit about human rights, women and the rest of the lib. rhetoric nonsense, they should be airlifted over the Afghanistan strapped to the chute, dropped and let them bring light to poor people of Afghanistan in person. How's that about killing multiple flies at once...
How pathetically naive from some. This shit has been going on for ages and every occupying force has ran into the same problems with fighting asymmetrical occupational war. It will only get worse especially with death toll from "supposed victory" rising each year on both(all) sides. This prolonged conflict only serves those who benefit from war and i highly doubt general population of this planet will be better off with this conflict dragging on.
To me deployment of our (yes our forces are also there) forces there should end immediately, all help/money flowing to that shit hole should stop and that's it. If someone starts speaking shit about human rights, women and the rest of the lib. rhetoric nonsense, they should be airlifted over the Afghanistan strapped to the chute, dropped and let them bring light to poor people of Afghanistan in person. How's that about killing multiple flies at once...
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide.</div></div>
It seems to me that anyone who is at a breaking point, and breaks, deserves at least the courtesy of a friggin' psych eval. It would seem to me to be part of due process. Normal, sane people *typically* don't breach the wire, expose themselves to whatever-may-come, and go on murder sprees.
If it is determined dude went nutso, should the Afghans still get their justice?
DO Afghans mentally evaluate people with an impartial third party, or at least a trained psychologist who is professionally bound to render an accurate finding?
With the pressure and the consequences of an "insane" dx, I'd likely venture a guess to "no".
The US justice system can handle this man.
If he is found competent, then so be it.
Heck, execute him by firing squad if found guilty and do it in front of the Afghan people for all I care.
But jumping to conclusions and letting some dude get truly thrown to the wolves is not justice, it's a sick facsimile and a poor copy at that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide.</div></div>
It seems to me that anyone who is at a breaking point, and breaks, deserves at least the courtesy of a friggin' psych eval. It would seem to me to be part of due process. Normal, sane people *typically* don't breach the wire, expose themselves to whatever-may-come, and go on murder sprees.
If it is determined dude went nutso, should the Afghans still get their justice?
DO Afghans mentally evaluate people with an impartial third party, or at least a trained psychologist who is professionally bound to render an accurate finding?
With the pressure and the consequences of an "insane" dx, I'd likely venture a guess to "no".
The US justice system can handle this man.
If he is found competent, then so be it.
Heck, execute him by firing squad if found guilty and do it in front of the Afghan people for all I care.
But jumping to conclusions and letting some dude get truly thrown to the wolves is not justice, it's a sick facsimile and a poor copy at that.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Threads like this, give more insight than interview rooms.
Threads like this, give more insight than interview rooms.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
EH, lucky thing I don't frequent Mosques! I only brought out a point I heard every Muslim use time and time again trying to explain to me how things happen over there. A devout believer would agree that the Will of Allah is the way things happen.
I do have a very pointed question though. How did this guy just up and walk out the ECP at zero dark thirty? Where were the Soldiers at the initial exit point, the outbound exit point, and at the final exit point to stop this guy? NO ONE enters or leaves a FOB, base, or whatever without authorization at zero dark thirty hours, no one.
If a lone Afghan walked up to a patrol of Americans or other Coalition Soldiers and fired them up, that would be according to the national thought of Afghanistan, the 'Will of Allah'.
The Soldier: Why was he up walking around at 0300 hours? What stress drove him to his actions and severe lack of ability to judge what he was doing? Was he a combat troop who lost it, or a fobbit who had too much stressful paperwork? What was the event, or series of events that drove this individual to lose his ability to stop himself? Why did none around him take notice of his slow loss of control over the past weeks or months?
Not making excuses here, but the guy lost it, people got killed and there was tragedy. I only tried to look at it through the eyes of a devout member of the Islamic religion. Here in the US if some dude fired up a McD's, a devout Christian would call it the 'Will of God', same as if gramma or the family dog died.
As to wishing me ill; well sir, may that all come directly back to you in the amounts deserved over the next five years. Remember, you get what you give tenfold.
EH, lucky thing I don't frequent Mosques! I only brought out a point I heard every Muslim use time and time again trying to explain to me how things happen over there. A devout believer would agree that the Will of Allah is the way things happen.
I do have a very pointed question though. How did this guy just up and walk out the ECP at zero dark thirty? Where were the Soldiers at the initial exit point, the outbound exit point, and at the final exit point to stop this guy? NO ONE enters or leaves a FOB, base, or whatever without authorization at zero dark thirty hours, no one.
If a lone Afghan walked up to a patrol of Americans or other Coalition Soldiers and fired them up, that would be according to the national thought of Afghanistan, the 'Will of Allah'.
The Soldier: Why was he up walking around at 0300 hours? What stress drove him to his actions and severe lack of ability to judge what he was doing? Was he a combat troop who lost it, or a fobbit who had too much stressful paperwork? What was the event, or series of events that drove this individual to lose his ability to stop himself? Why did none around him take notice of his slow loss of control over the past weeks or months?
Not making excuses here, but the guy lost it, people got killed and there was tragedy. I only tried to look at it through the eyes of a devout member of the Islamic religion. Here in the US if some dude fired up a McD's, a devout Christian would call it the 'Will of God', same as if gramma or the family dog died.
As to wishing me ill; well sir, may that all come directly back to you in the amounts deserved over the next five years. Remember, you get what you give tenfold.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
I would think this sort of thing would happen more often than it has having several tours under his belt. Not that anything justifies what he did. I do think its a political mess and at some point in the very near future we should end our support and cut our losses. It sucks that people have lost their lives and we spent Billions of dollars with no end in sight. This could go on forever. There is no more changing of hearts and minds, OBL is dead and its time to stop the donations of money to people who dont want us there and not have anymore bodies coming home in boxes. Im in support of the people in the fight but not in support of the reasons why or the people sending them to fight.
I would think this sort of thing would happen more often than it has having several tours under his belt. Not that anything justifies what he did. I do think its a political mess and at some point in the very near future we should end our support and cut our losses. It sucks that people have lost their lives and we spent Billions of dollars with no end in sight. This could go on forever. There is no more changing of hearts and minds, OBL is dead and its time to stop the donations of money to people who dont want us there and not have anymore bodies coming home in boxes. Im in support of the people in the fight but not in support of the reasons why or the people sending them to fight.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Switchblade, you have a PM.
Switchblade, you have a PM.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
but did he piss on the bodies, cause that'd be very snipery of him if he did
but did he piss on the bodies, cause that'd be very snipery of him if he did
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
I say get our people outta that shitbox. Respect the primitives' decision to live in the stone age and move on. Any afghan that wants to get out and join the rest of the world, now is their chance, after we pull out, seal the fuckin shithole and let them kill themselves in the name of God or whatever. We'll stop in every hundred years or so to check on the lab project.
I say get our people outta that shitbox. Respect the primitives' decision to live in the stone age and move on. Any afghan that wants to get out and join the rest of the world, now is their chance, after we pull out, seal the fuckin shithole and let them kill themselves in the name of God or whatever. We'll stop in every hundred years or so to check on the lab project.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Give the people who clearly supported us there as allies, especially western thinking women and others who will otherwise be beheaded, asylum here and then clear out. It would be far less costly and more effective than staying in country. We don't have the will to win this thing anymore. As our enemies know, just wait long enough and things will change in the USA to where they can be victorious. No wonder we win the battles but loose the wars. Not one more American death in a lost cause!
Give the people who clearly supported us there as allies, especially western thinking women and others who will otherwise be beheaded, asylum here and then clear out. It would be far less costly and more effective than staying in country. We don't have the will to win this thing anymore. As our enemies know, just wait long enough and things will change in the USA to where they can be victorious. No wonder we win the battles but loose the wars. Not one more American death in a lost cause!
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
EH, replied...we are fine
There were far too many things out of balance for this guy to do this.
His Superiors or/and his subordinates/lateral counterparts saw nothing out of the ordianry with this guy.
He walked out through the ECP, and back in BY HIMSELF at 0 dark 30...a HUGE no-go on any base(no battle buddy, and wtf are you doing at 0300 trying to go off base???) Where were the ECP personnel to stop this guy from leaving?
He shot and killed civilians and went back into a base, through an ECP that SHOULD HAVE BEEN on high alert when the shots were fired.
These things, such great imbalance in the entire base function, are what allowed this to happen. Fate, Will of Allah, God's Will, call it what you want.
No one ever left my, yes, MY ECP, at night unless they had orders, a battle buddy, a armored vehicle and convoy, and functioning weapons...you starting to see the Epic Fail here yet?
The things we dfo over there with the PRT's like building villages, drilling wells, making medical clinics and essentially trying to bring them up a notch or two in education. There are many villages where teh successes far outweigh the failures. To let the Taliban walk in and do what they were doing before as business as usual when we made a damn promise to stay for 50 years goes against my beliefs as a guy who's been there and seen a bit of it. If we cannot make it better, we at least can rid the world of the Taliban wherever we can locate, close with and destroy them before leaving, then, and only then will those people have a chance to overcome the warlords or other enema nozzles making life suck.
EH, replied...we are fine
There were far too many things out of balance for this guy to do this.
His Superiors or/and his subordinates/lateral counterparts saw nothing out of the ordianry with this guy.
He walked out through the ECP, and back in BY HIMSELF at 0 dark 30...a HUGE no-go on any base(no battle buddy, and wtf are you doing at 0300 trying to go off base???) Where were the ECP personnel to stop this guy from leaving?
He shot and killed civilians and went back into a base, through an ECP that SHOULD HAVE BEEN on high alert when the shots were fired.
These things, such great imbalance in the entire base function, are what allowed this to happen. Fate, Will of Allah, God's Will, call it what you want.
No one ever left my, yes, MY ECP, at night unless they had orders, a battle buddy, a armored vehicle and convoy, and functioning weapons...you starting to see the Epic Fail here yet?
The things we dfo over there with the PRT's like building villages, drilling wells, making medical clinics and essentially trying to bring them up a notch or two in education. There are many villages where teh successes far outweigh the failures. To let the Taliban walk in and do what they were doing before as business as usual when we made a damn promise to stay for 50 years goes against my beliefs as a guy who's been there and seen a bit of it. If we cannot make it better, we at least can rid the world of the Taliban wherever we can locate, close with and destroy them before leaving, then, and only then will those people have a chance to overcome the warlords or other enema nozzles making life suck.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
Regardless of the reasons/non-reasons, he's our guy, we ought to deal with him. I'm a bit sickened by the cries to hand him over to any other group of people, like we just want the simplest end to a problem for which we are responsible. Just because it's expedient doesn't make it right.
I think my favorite author said it best - "When the need arises — and it does — you must be able to shoot your own dog. Don't farm it out — that doesn't make it nicer, it makes it worse."
Obviously, for those not accustomed to metaphor, take it only at that. I don't have enough info to judge anything other than the man's actions. That being said, we ought to take responsibility - punish our own - and do what we can to make life better for the living (which is what we have been doing over there since we set foot in country).
Regardless of the reasons/non-reasons, he's our guy, we ought to deal with him. I'm a bit sickened by the cries to hand him over to any other group of people, like we just want the simplest end to a problem for which we are responsible. Just because it's expedient doesn't make it right.
I think my favorite author said it best - "When the need arises — and it does — you must be able to shoot your own dog. Don't farm it out — that doesn't make it nicer, it makes it worse."
Obviously, for those not accustomed to metaphor, take it only at that. I don't have enough info to judge anything other than the man's actions. That being said, we ought to take responsibility - punish our own - and do what we can to make life better for the living (which is what we have been doing over there since we set foot in country).
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TNT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of the reasons/non-reasons, he's our guy, we ought to deal with him. I'm a bit sickened by the cries to hand him over to any other group of people, like we just want the simplest end to a problem for which we are responsible. Just because it's expedient doesn't make it right.
I think my favorite author said it best - "When the need arises — and it does — you must be able to shoot your own dog. Don't farm it out — that doesn't make it nicer, it makes it worse."
Obviously, for those not accustomed to metaphor, take it only at that. I don't have enough info to judge anything other than the man's actions. That being said, we ought to take responsibility - punish our own - and do what we can to make life better for the living (which is what we have been doing over there since we set foot in country). </div></div>
So what would your thoughts be should a Chinese, North Korean, or even a Pakistani National that walked into several houses here shooting civilians then ran back into their embassy? You wouldn't want them to hand them over? The line of hypocrisy is fine one...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TNT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of the reasons/non-reasons, he's our guy, we ought to deal with him. I'm a bit sickened by the cries to hand him over to any other group of people, like we just want the simplest end to a problem for which we are responsible. Just because it's expedient doesn't make it right.
I think my favorite author said it best - "When the need arises — and it does — you must be able to shoot your own dog. Don't farm it out — that doesn't make it nicer, it makes it worse."
Obviously, for those not accustomed to metaphor, take it only at that. I don't have enough info to judge anything other than the man's actions. That being said, we ought to take responsibility - punish our own - and do what we can to make life better for the living (which is what we have been doing over there since we set foot in country). </div></div>
So what would your thoughts be should a Chinese, North Korean, or even a Pakistani National that walked into several houses here shooting civilians then ran back into their embassy? You wouldn't want them to hand them over? The line of hypocrisy is fine one...
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide.</div></div>
WTF? No way. He is an American, and ENTITLED to Constitutional rights. No one has the authority to dismiss those. If he is in our custody, and he is, he deserves full due process and nothing less. Be careful about throwing someone else's rights away because invariably government never uses such power with much precision. It WILL come back to bite you someday.
As far as costing lives, I don't believe it. These medieval SOBs will get less worked up about 16 dead kids than burning a couple qurans, which goes a long way to explaining why they are so screwed up to begin with.
I mean, what, they are gonna hate us even more now? I was over that a LONG time ago.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You want this guy to be handed over to the host nation?</div></div>
Yes, it kills two birds with one stone in my view.
Afghans get their "justice", and a murderer gets what he deserves.
I'm not sure how much better an outcome we could hope for, anyway you cut this, we still lose in some form.
Throw this guy to the wolves, his actions WILL cost the lives of others and deserves whatever the Afghans decide.</div></div>
WTF? No way. He is an American, and ENTITLED to Constitutional rights. No one has the authority to dismiss those. If he is in our custody, and he is, he deserves full due process and nothing less. Be careful about throwing someone else's rights away because invariably government never uses such power with much precision. It WILL come back to bite you someday.
As far as costing lives, I don't believe it. These medieval SOBs will get less worked up about 16 dead kids than burning a couple qurans, which goes a long way to explaining why they are so screwed up to begin with.
I mean, what, they are gonna hate us even more now? I was over that a LONG time ago.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TNT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of the reasons/non-reasons, he's our guy, we ought to deal with him. I'm a bit sickened by the cries to hand him over to any other group of people, like we just want the simplest end to a problem for which we are responsible. Just because it's expedient doesn't make it right.
I think my favorite author said it best - "When the need arises — and it does — you must be able to shoot your own dog. Don't farm it out — that doesn't make it nicer, it makes it worse."
Obviously, for those not accustomed to metaphor, take it only at that. I don't have enough info to judge anything other than the man's actions. That being said, we ought to take responsibility - punish our own - and do what we can to make life better for the living (which is what we have been doing over there since we set foot in country). </div></div>
So what would your thoughts be should a Chinese, North Korean, or even a Pakistani National that walked into several houses here shooting civilians then ran back into their embassy? You wouldn't want them to hand them over? The line of hypocrisy is fine one... </div></div>
Hypocrisy? Call it what you will, I will advocate for Americans whether fair or not without reservation or apology. Period. DOT.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TNT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of the reasons/non-reasons, he's our guy, we ought to deal with him. I'm a bit sickened by the cries to hand him over to any other group of people, like we just want the simplest end to a problem for which we are responsible. Just because it's expedient doesn't make it right.
I think my favorite author said it best - "When the need arises — and it does — you must be able to shoot your own dog. Don't farm it out — that doesn't make it nicer, it makes it worse."
Obviously, for those not accustomed to metaphor, take it only at that. I don't have enough info to judge anything other than the man's actions. That being said, we ought to take responsibility - punish our own - and do what we can to make life better for the living (which is what we have been doing over there since we set foot in country). </div></div>
So what would your thoughts be should a Chinese, North Korean, or even a Pakistani National that walked into several houses here shooting civilians then ran back into their embassy? You wouldn't want them to hand them over? The line of hypocrisy is fine one... </div></div>
Hypocrisy? Call it what you will, I will advocate for Americans whether fair or not without reservation or apology. Period. DOT.
Re: US soldier Kills 16 Afgan Civilians
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
WTF? No way. He is an American, and ENTITLED to Constitutional rights. No one has the authority to dismiss those. </div></div>
Lol... He's an American all right, but he's on foreign soil which means he's under their jurisdiction. Being American does not entitle someone to go into someone elses backyard and shit everywhere then run back into their own for protection. He should have thought of that before he stepped off post and out of the protection of his "rights". It's no different then someone committing a murder here and then running back into their own embassy. We be demanding they were turned over to us as well...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
WTF? No way. He is an American, and ENTITLED to Constitutional rights. No one has the authority to dismiss those. </div></div>
Lol... He's an American all right, but he's on foreign soil which means he's under their jurisdiction. Being American does not entitle someone to go into someone elses backyard and shit everywhere then run back into their own for protection. He should have thought of that before he stepped off post and out of the protection of his "rights". It's no different then someone committing a murder here and then running back into their own embassy. We be demanding they were turned over to us as well...
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