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If you're an American, a MUST read...

JB5812

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 8, 2006
0
0
Portland, OR
After deciding that I really don't know enough about our history, and knew what I was taught in school was loaded crap taught by some teachers and most textbooks with horribly skewed left-wing agendas, I searched for a history book to read. I searched for just a general history book covering all periods. I never expected to find such a GREAT book full of the REAL STORY of America and how it came to be and what has happened to it.

I came upon this: "A Patriot's History of the United States" The author, Dr. Schweikart has written many history books and is well known in the field for his factual writings, unlike many other authors with similar books expressing mostly their opinion on history. His interview with Rush in the beginning alone is enough to get the book. VERY eye opening.

I'm getting his new book "What would the Founders say?" So I have that to read after deployment.

I've never been a big reader, but I cannot stop reading and learning from this book. If you THINK you know our history, you should read this book and be amazed. Or, if you went to school between 1960-present and were taught your history from there.

Cheers!
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

Thanks for the book recommendation, I'm always looking for something new and fact based to read that comes highly recommended. Now I'll return the favor, "A short History of Nearly Everything" -- Bill Bryson, not American history, but earth history. Most interesting book I've ever read.

Respectfully
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savage110FPshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After deciding that I really don't know enough about our history........... I never expected to find such a GREAT book full of the REAL STORY of America and how it came to be and what has happened to it.

If you THINK you know our history, you should read this book and be amazed. </div></div>

I'm confused.
You confess to knowing nothing about history, but then you say that this book tells the REAL story.
On what do you base your assessment?
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

No problem. That sounds pretty good as well! I have a long reading list now, but I'll check that into it too lol
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

A little more research yields expected results.
The book is appealing to some in that it is more closely aligned with their own political notions of what the country should be.

Simplified: If you watch Fox News and believe everything they say, you'll love this book.
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A little more research yields expected results.
The book is appealing to some in that it is more closely aligned with their own political notions of what the country should be.

Simplified: If you watch Fox News and believe everything they say, you'll love this book. </div></div>

lol that's a great way to explain what you're TRYING to say.. As a matter of fact, the book does match my ideals and thoughts of what the country should be like. It should match everyone's ideals on this site! But the fact is, there really aren't many opinions expressed in the book besides the fore and after-thoughts... And in my OPINION, there really isn't much to disagree about, and I'm suprised that without reading it, you'd have such an opposing assumption about it.

Also, I haven't expressed my political views and never mentioned anything about them. I simply stated that it is an eye opener FACTUALLY. He put a lot of research into it that yielded fantastic results IN FAVOR of our country and why we are so great... I don't understand what you are getting at with your Fox News statement besides trying to obviously play it off as some "right-wing rant of book" I'm assuming.
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

I'm not quite sure what your problem is, but I'll play... You really ARE confused obviously. I stated that I don't didn't know enough about our history... You see, some people like to further their edumacation than what they previously had. No where did I say I know nothing about our history. I've always been into history and that's why I decided to read.... another book... about history. Specifically a more detailed one.

Ok, so we all get it now. You don't like this book, fox news, probably anything conservative, and reading posts correctly. Thanks for your input...
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

After sitting through two semsters of US History, I must agree that what we learned as kids was pure crap. From Columbus discovering America through teh pilgrims to the gencidal removal of American Indians and further, we were taught gummy bear bullshit as kids. To have a professor who was the accurate historian for LTG Petraus gives US History some really wicked rethinks. Yes, My Prof was Petraus's historian as well as a retired Major, so no left wing BS here. It was rather nice to have history taught from as objective a view as possible
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

Side note: I haven't posted on here in a long time, and even hesitated because I figured I'd have some internet forum jackass (should have trusted my gut) that just HAS to post something negative. I guess I was just excited that I really have enjoyed the book and wanted to pass on what I believe was a great presentation of our history as a nation. It obviously wasn't an attempt at some political jab...
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

Any history text can be written, choked full of facts, to show bias to one viewpoint or another. It's not a matter of the facts that are included so much as it is one of the facts that aren't.

Of course, the fact that the author chose to call it "A Patriot's History..." should give some heads up to the reader that it's not going to be a broad-based historical work filled with ALL of the facts.

Here's a review of the book that takes some of its shortcomings to task.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Patriot's History of the United States, by Larry Schweikart and Michael Allen. New York: Sentinel, 2004. 929 pages. $29.95, cloth.
This book published by Sentinel (a new conservative imprint of Penguin) intends to challenge the hegemony of "mainstream U.S. history textbooks," whose multicultural obsessions allegedly distort the plain truth of the nation's past. Proceeding from the premise that American history "is a bright and shining light," A Patriot's History offers a ponderous, distracted 900-page ode to "American character," private property, and godly virtue. Here, Schweikart and Allen slay the predictable assortment of dragons — the New Deal, secularists, Dr. Spock, the Clintons — while salving the wounds of Columbus, the Founding Fathers, industrial capitalists, and other aggrieved parties whose place in history has been reduced by liberal historians who believe "there is no such thing as virtue" (p. xi-xii). Written for an audience of the previously converted, this book is hardly worth anyone else's time. 1
It should be noted, however, that most historians would probably find nothing troubling about a text that emphasizes political, military, and business history (as this one does), nor would they automatically dismiss a book for celebrating the United States as a moral beacon to the world. Aside from its more "traditional" emphasis on Great Men and its heavy reliance on historical works published prior to the 1970s, the broad narrative of A Patriot's History is unremarkable. But the devil lives in the details. What are readers to make of a book that devotes a single paragraph to the Japanese internment while squandering an entire page with denunciations of liberal historians and their treatments of the subject? How seriously should anyone take a textbook that devotes seven pages each to the Spanish-American War and the Clinton impeachment while covering the Iran-Contra scandal in six sentences? How much is our understanding of woman suffrage aided by a rambling discussion of Margaret Sanger's eugenic obsessions? Does a history survey — patriotic or otherwise — require a two-page essay on the question "Did Columbus Kill Most of the Indians?" Although this reviewer has never heard that question asked by any historians aside from the authors of this book, the answer is evidently "no." 2
We might continue in this vein, but the more distressing problems with A Patriot's History appear in the footnotes, which the authors clearly do not expect intelligent people to read. Any responsible survey text should strive to represent accurately the range of views available on a particular issue. Indeed, even "liberal" textbooks provide helpful bibliographies that include traditional as well as revisionist scholarship. In this book, however, the authors repeatedly ignore canonical historical scholarship, as when the authors manage somehow not to footnote anything by John Lewis Gaddis, Robert Grogin, William Appleman Williams, Melvyn Leffler or Walter LaFeber in a chapter on the Cold War. Other chapters suggest comparable ignorance of the basic parameters of actual historical scholarship; this represents a disservice to the book's readers. 3
Worse, in their chapters on recent U.S. history, the authors make claims that are not even remotely endorsed by the footnoted sources. In excoriating the Great Society, for instance, Schweikart and Allen observe that one "malignant result of AFDC's no-father policy was that it left inner-city black boys with no male role models" (p. 689). In support of this Gingrichian pronouncement, the authors cite a single 1989 study from Social Forces— an article that makes no mention of AFDC, inner-city black youth, or role models and indeed has almost nothing to do with the argument to which it is attached. In the same paragraph, we read further that after the 1960s, "gang leaders from Portland to Syracuse, from Kansas City to Palmdale, inducted thousands of impressionable young males into drug running, gun battles, and often death" (p. 689). For this dramatic observation, the authors rely on two broad studies of family structure and drug use, each published eight years apart in the Journal of Marriage and the Family. Among the phrases that do not appear in either study: "Gang leaders," "Portland," "Syracuse," "Kansas City," "Palmdale," "impressionable young males," "drug running," "gun battles," and "death." With little effort, this reviewer has identified nearly a dozen such cases in which the authors have tortured their sources to score points against social programs they oppose, political philosophies to which they object, or historical actors whom they do not like. 4
Evidently, the virtues endorsed by A Patriot's History do not apply to the authors themselves. As "intelligent design" simulates the language and structure of evolutionary biology, A Patriot's History simulates the language and structure of historical writing. Discerning readers will not be fooled.</div></div>

Also, regarding your comments about me and my comments.
This is a discussion forum. If you were looking for a "Atta boy", pat you on the back, "I'm in total agreement" because we both have an interest in firearms and related subject matter, you may have posted to the wrong place.

I hope I didn't scare you off again, with all my radical views.
whistle.gif
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

I don't know anything about this book so I'll obviously withhold comment on it, but with respect to the public school system it is very apparent to me that it is rife with systemic liberal bias like much of the network and cable news media. I have so many examples of such, and spent so much time over the dinner table at night offering the non liberal counterpoint to the school textbooks on American history to my children, that it eventually dawned on me that I could hardly compete with 8 hours of indoctrination a day. Thats when we began homeschooling.
I am not afraid in the least of my children being exposed to any age appropriate subject or idea, but it is my responsibility to ensure they are getting the full picture, and more importantly can apply critical thinking to the facts and form their own conclusions based on reason.
A half truth can be the most effective lie of all, and something the national education asociation and the department of education is well versed in.
As for the OP, all I can say is that if you sense that something is amiss in our education system, I agree with you.
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any history text can be written, choked full of facts, to show bias to one viewpoint or another. It's not a matter of the facts that are included so much as it is one of the facts that aren't.

Of course, the fact that the author chose to call it "A Patriot's History..." should give some heads up to the reader that it's not going to be a broad-based historical work filled with ALL of the facts.

Here's a review of the book that takes some of its shortcomings to task.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Patriot's History of the United States, by Larry Schweikart and Michael Allen. New York: Sentinel, 2004. 929 pages. $29.95, cloth.
This book published by Sentinel (a new conservative imprint of Penguin) intends to challenge the hegemony of "mainstream U.S. history textbooks," whose multicultural obsessions allegedly distort the plain truth of the nation's past. Proceeding from the premise that American history "is a bright and shining light," A Patriot's History offers a ponderous, distracted 900-page ode to "American character," private property, and godly virtue. Here, Schweikart and Allen slay the predictable assortment of dragons — the New Deal, secularists, Dr. Spock, the Clintons — while salving the wounds of Columbus, the Founding Fathers, industrial capitalists, and other aggrieved parties whose place in history has been reduced by liberal historians who believe "there is no such thing as virtue" (p. xi-xii). Written for an audience of the previously converted, this book is hardly worth anyone else's time. 1
It should be noted, however, that most historians would probably find nothing troubling about a text that emphasizes political, military, and business history (as this one does), nor would they automatically dismiss a book for celebrating the United States as a moral beacon to the world. Aside from its more "traditional" emphasis on Great Men and its heavy reliance on historical works published prior to the 1970s, the broad narrative of A Patriot's History is unremarkable. But the devil lives in the details. What are readers to make of a book that devotes a single paragraph to the Japanese internment while squandering an entire page with denunciations of liberal historians and their treatments of the subject? How seriously should anyone take a textbook that devotes seven pages each to the Spanish-American War and the Clinton impeachment while covering the Iran-Contra scandal in six sentences? How much is our understanding of woman suffrage aided by a rambling discussion of Margaret Sanger's eugenic obsessions? Does a history survey — patriotic or otherwise — require a two-page essay on the question "Did Columbus Kill Most of the Indians?" Although this reviewer has never heard that question asked by any historians aside from the authors of this book, the answer is evidently "no." 2
We might continue in this vein, but the more distressing problems with A Patriot's History appear in the footnotes, which the authors clearly do not expect intelligent people to read. Any responsible survey text should strive to represent accurately the range of views available on a particular issue. Indeed, even "liberal" textbooks provide helpful bibliographies that include traditional as well as revisionist scholarship. In this book, however, the authors repeatedly ignore canonical historical scholarship, as when the authors manage somehow not to footnote anything by John Lewis Gaddis, Robert Grogin, William Appleman Williams, Melvyn Leffler or Walter LaFeber in a chapter on the Cold War. Other chapters suggest comparable ignorance of the basic parameters of actual historical scholarship; this represents a disservice to the book's readers. 3
Worse, in their chapters on recent U.S. history, the authors make claims that are not even remotely endorsed by the footnoted sources. In excoriating the Great Society, for instance, Schweikart and Allen observe that one "malignant result of AFDC's no-father policy was that it left inner-city black boys with no male role models" (p. 689). In support of this Gingrichian pronouncement, the authors cite a single 1989 study from Social Forces— an article that makes no mention of AFDC, inner-city black youth, or role models and indeed has almost nothing to do with the argument to which it is attached. In the same paragraph, we read further that after the 1960s, "gang leaders from Portland to Syracuse, from Kansas City to Palmdale, inducted thousands of impressionable young males into drug running, gun battles, and often death" (p. 689). For this dramatic observation, the authors rely on two broad studies of family structure and drug use, each published eight years apart in the Journal of Marriage and the Family. Among the phrases that do not appear in either study: "Gang leaders," "Portland," "Syracuse," "Kansas City," "Palmdale," "impressionable young males," "drug running," "gun battles," and "death." With little effort, this reviewer has identified nearly a dozen such cases in which the authors have tortured their sources to score points against social programs they oppose, political philosophies to which they object, or historical actors whom they do not like. 4
Evidently, the virtues endorsed by A Patriot's History do not apply to the authors themselves. As "intelligent design" simulates the language and structure of evolutionary biology, A Patriot's History simulates the language and structure of historical writing. Discerning readers will not be fooled.</div></div>

Also, regarding your comments about me and my comments.
This is a discussion forum. If you were looking for a "Atta boy", pat you on the back, "I'm in total agreement" because we both have an interest in firearms and related subject matter, you may have posted to the wrong place.

I hope I didn't scare you off again, with all my radical views.
whistle.gif

</div></div>

And what penis puffer wrote that review Tucker? He seems awfully tormented about the inadequacy of the foot notes. Specifically regarding the disintegration of the Black Family structure, there have been countless books, papers, thesis, discussions, debates and columns, over the last 45 years, on the deleterious effects of the great society programs.

That the absence or imprecision of proper footnote citation would so outrage the reviewer suggests an agenda born of nit-pickery, spite and a desperation suggesting manning of the barricades.

As to the title, imagine, an author and publisher actually targeting an audience to whom they want to sell a publication?

Why it's revolutionary!
 
Re: If you're an American, a MUST read...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any history text can be written, choked full of facts, to show bias to one viewpoint or another. It's not a matter of the facts that are included so much as it is one of the facts that aren't.

Of course, the fact that the author chose to call it "A Patriot's History..." should give some heads up to the reader that it's not going to be a broad-based historical work filled with ALL of the facts.

Here's a review of the book that takes some of its shortcomings to task.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Patriot's History of the United States, by Larry Schweikart and Michael Allen. New York: Sentinel, 2004. 929 pages. $29.95, cloth.
This book published by Sentinel (a new conservative imprint of Penguin) intends to challenge the hegemony of "mainstream U.S. history textbooks," whose multicultural obsessions allegedly distort the plain truth of the nation's past. Proceeding from the premise that American history "is a bright and shining light," A Patriot's History offers a ponderous, distracted 900-page ode to "American character," private property, and godly virtue. Here, Schweikart and Allen slay the predictable assortment of dragons — the New Deal, secularists, Dr. Spock, the Clintons — while salving the wounds of Columbus, the Founding Fathers, industrial capitalists, and other aggrieved parties whose place in history has been reduced by liberal historians who believe "there is no such thing as virtue" (p. xi-xii). Written for an audience of the previously converted, this book is hardly worth anyone else's time. 1
It should be noted, however, that most historians would probably find nothing troubling about a text that emphasizes political, military, and business history (as this one does), nor would they automatically dismiss a book for celebrating the United States as a moral beacon to the world. Aside from its more "traditional" emphasis on Great Men and its heavy reliance on historical works published prior to the 1970s, the broad narrative of A Patriot's History is unremarkable. But the devil lives in the details. What are readers to make of a book that devotes a single paragraph to the Japanese internment while squandering an entire page with denunciations of liberal historians and their treatments of the subject? How seriously should anyone take a textbook that devotes seven pages each to the Spanish-American War and the Clinton impeachment while covering the Iran-Contra scandal in six sentences? How much is our understanding of woman suffrage aided by a rambling discussion of Margaret Sanger's eugenic obsessions? Does a history survey — patriotic or otherwise — require a two-page essay on the question "Did Columbus Kill Most of the Indians?" Although this reviewer has never heard that question asked by any historians aside from the authors of this book, the answer is evidently "no." 2
We might continue in this vein, but the more distressing problems with A Patriot's History appear in the footnotes, which the authors clearly do not expect intelligent people to read. Any responsible survey text should strive to represent accurately the range of views available on a particular issue. Indeed, even "liberal" textbooks provide helpful bibliographies that include traditional as well as revisionist scholarship. In this book, however, the authors repeatedly ignore canonical historical scholarship, as when the authors manage somehow not to footnote anything by John Lewis Gaddis, Robert Grogin, William Appleman Williams, Melvyn Leffler or Walter LaFeber in a chapter on the Cold War. Other chapters suggest comparable ignorance of the basic parameters of actual historical scholarship; this represents a disservice to the book's readers. 3
Worse, in their chapters on recent U.S. history, the authors make claims that are not even remotely endorsed by the footnoted sources. In excoriating the Great Society, for instance, Schweikart and Allen observe that one "malignant result of AFDC's no-father policy was that it left inner-city black boys with no male role models" (p. 689). In support of this Gingrichian pronouncement, the authors cite a single 1989 study from Social Forces— an article that makes no mention of AFDC, inner-city black youth, or role models and indeed has almost nothing to do with the argument to which it is attached. In the same paragraph, we read further that after the 1960s, "gang leaders from Portland to Syracuse, from Kansas City to Palmdale, inducted thousands of impressionable young males into drug running, gun battles, and often death" (p. 689). For this dramatic observation, the authors rely on two broad studies of family structure and drug use, each published eight years apart in the Journal of Marriage and the Family. Among the phrases that do not appear in either study: "Gang leaders," "Portland," "Syracuse," "Kansas City," "Palmdale," "impressionable young males," "drug running," "gun battles," and "death." With little effort, this reviewer has identified nearly a dozen such cases in which the authors have tortured their sources to score points against social programs they oppose, political philosophies to which they object, or historical actors whom they do not like. 4
Evidently, the virtues endorsed by A Patriot's History do not apply to the authors themselves. As "intelligent design" simulates the language and structure of evolutionary biology, A Patriot's History simulates the language and structure of historical writing. Discerning readers will not be fooled.</div></div>

Also, regarding your comments about me and my comments.
This is a discussion forum. If you were looking for a "Atta boy", pat you on the back, "I'm in total agreement" because we both have an interest in firearms and related subject matter, you may have posted to the wrong place.

I hope I didn't scare you off again, with all my radical views.
whistle.gif

</div></div>

No don't worry, I'm glad when I get to use the internet this much. I'm not looking for anything from you and I don't need a pat on the back from the internet and people that spend their entire day in "Maggie's drawers". And firearms aren't the most common bond in here, it's USUALLY a rational way of thinking of politics, ideals, and our country.

Just like books, you can pull up BS reviews that are leaning both ways, so you should probably offer more of an argument about the book than SOMEONE ELSES opinion that you googled... You're being a hypocrite.

And the book WAS written to show how America is a shining beacon of hope. Because that's what it is. If you don't think so, then you should GTFO because despite it's downfalls, before citizens began to turn their back on their own country, people fought hard to keep it that way.