Using Pistol AR shouldered

[taseal]

OK, I'm not sure if this is valid, legal, or not possible, but I wanted to ask about being able to shoulder a pistol AR

I was looking at the 300 Blackout and it seems like it would shine with heavy rounds out of a barrel between 8 and 10 inches... But obviously something like that will require BATF, NFA stamps and all that 'not fun' stuff. Well I was thinking if I ever went down that route, I'll order the rifle upper, and get a dedicated AR pistol lower... I'll play with that that way until I get a stamp for it then I can convert the pistol buffer to a regular one making it a SBR

that being said, I was just curious if it's legal to 'shoulder' that pistol AR. I'm not even sure if it would be practical. I think without a stock you will end up too close to the charging handle and won't be able to properly hold the pistol rifle

I have no idea if this is practical, legal, or anything, so I'm here to ask. I can't see shooting any rifle setup as a pistol so it never made sense to me

I saw someone mention using a regular buffer with that foam cover over it as well. apparently they are longer for better LOP. no idea how recoil will be with that size footprint though

<span style="font-weight: bold">eta:</span> Doing some research I found this document which says that it's ok to put a 'cane tip' on a buffer tube. I guess it's ok... Like I said, I have no idea how effective it'll be, but at least it's legal. I guess it is a good way to put the short barrel on there while one waits for the stamp to let you put the stock on there...

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/21...shack.us/img16/2101/batfeletterarpistols1.jpg

 

[BayouRobert]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

If you do it, find it terribly effective, and come to realize everything you've been "told" about "appropriate length of pull" was truly ass-backwards, then please don't post pics or brandish the notion about. Thanks, BR

 

[vinsonr]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

It is legal just as much as it is legal to shoulder your pistol and fire it. They key is 'designed to be fired from the shoulder' or not.

 

[chainring]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BayouRobert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you do it, find it terribly effective, and come to realize everything you've been "told" about "appropriate length of pull" was truly ass-backwards, then please don't post pics or brandish the notion about. Thanks, BR </div></div>


I see what you did there...

 

[Ianski]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

I believe the ATF allows you to mount a "cane tip" on the pistol buffer with out reclassifying the firearm as an sbr. Also, from first hand experience i can tell you that a pistol buffer can be relatively effective if instead of shouldering it you center-chest it. with a plate carrier and gear, i found it to be relatively easy to do front sight point style shooting. again, not shooting out the "10" ring at 100 lol but 25-35m wasn't bad.

 

[taseal]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ianski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe the ATF allows you to mount a "cane tip" on the pistol buffer with out reclassifying the firearm as an sbr. Also, from first hand experience i can tell you that a pistol buffer can be relatively effective if instead of shouldering it you center-chest it. with a plate carrier and gear, i found it to be relatively easy to do front sight point style shooting. again, not shooting out the "10" ring at 100 lol but 25-35m wasn't bad. </div></div>

Looks like it... thanks bud

here is the document

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2101/batfeletterarpistols1.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2101/batfeletterarpistols2.jpg

 

[lazy21]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

I always shoulder my airsoft pistol, recoil is not that bad.

 

[taseal]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always shoulder my airsoft pistol, recoil is not that bad.

</div></div>

what an awesome toy gun you got there!

 

[country888]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

I have a ar pistol & love it! I sholder it & it shoots great & easy to use. I have a 5.56 & a 300 blackout upper for it. 7.5" & 8". Its very easy to shoot from the sholder.

 

[redrocksmarc]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

The 300aac Blackout has almost no recoil. I have an SBR and the 10.5 in is great with or without the suppressor on it. You will have no problem shooting it while holding it and you can stabilize it with a single point sling pulled tight in front of you. If you do shoulder it the recoil is so light that you will not feel it too bad against your shoulder. That being said again you should be able to shoot it as a pistol with a single point sling in front of you as it is designed to do.

The 300 Blackout is just a pleasure to shoot, just ask frank!

 

[taseal]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

Thanks!

I'm trying to compare .45 acp vs 300

 

[louboyd]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

Left and right hand 300 Fireball made with Stag uppers.

I don't hold them against my shoulder. Not even to fondle them in my own home. I don't consider it wise to wave red flags at the ATF. To emphasize that they have very short GSE buffers.

 

[taseal]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lou Boyd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Left and right hand 300 Fireball made with Stag uppers.

I don't hold them against my shoulder. Not even to fondle them in my own home. I don't consider it wise to wave red flags at the ATF. To emphasize that they have very short GSE buffers. </div></div>

I hear ya

 

[vinsonr]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lou Boyd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Left and right hand 300 Fireball made with Stag uppers.

I don't hold them against my shoulder. Not even to fondle them in my own home. I don't consider it wise to wave red flags at the ATF. To emphasize that they have very short GSE buffers. </div></div>

You cannot turn a pistol into a rifle based on how you hold it...

 

[louboyd]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vinson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You cannot turn a pistol into a rifle based on how you hold it...</div></div>

Maybe. You can show intent if you use it like it has a shoulder stock. Where is the fine line drawn which differentiates a shoulder stock from the buffer assembly on an AR-15 pistol? Is there an unambiguous ATF ruling on that? It's not difficult to control any ar-15 with any buffer resting on your shoulder with high and forward mounted sights.

The letter posted by TASEAL does not define how long the buffer can be and only lists a cane tip as legal on the end of the buffer. That might reduce damage to the buffer if the pistol is dropped.

 

[softcock]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

Same here . AR pistol in 300 is the catsAss . I run one 8" barrel & suppressed all the time on Night hunting . Love that little tiny setup . Running with the Eo & IR laser you can just flip it up fast & pin it between Chin bone & top shoulder .
( ONLY ) thing is you need to get comfortable with with shooting position of (nose to charging handle) . But Nose to CH is no biggie to me hunting, as I am only popping 1 to 3 rounds max. on a hunt & the little bit of gas blow-by is very minor discomfort for the reward after .
.

 

[Twisted .308]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

If JUST the buffertube is pressed to the shoulder with NO modifications done ? this " should " be legal as it is un-modified from stock ...

what I want to know is how Rossi sells these as a pistol with a plain as day shoulder stock ???
This is what looks like the thing to get you in trouble shoulder firing !!!

 

[KHOOKS]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

Now then what about a RRA pistol on there gas operated design. At the buffer tube location they have a vertical rail located there. Can you but a stock on it that attaches to the rail and still be within the legal rules of the ATF. They call this rail a rear sling or accessory mounting rail. If a stock was built to attch at this rail would it not be a accessory for this model pistol. See link below:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=441

 

[softcock]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

>... " <span style="font-style: italic">If JUST the buffertube is pressed to the shoulder with NO modifications done ? this <span style="font-weight: bold">" <span style="color: #FF0000">should</span> "</span> be legal as it is un-modified from stock</span> ".

No "Should" about it . It ' IS ' legal .
& you need to add : No forward pistol grip added/attached to the AR Forearm also for ( AR Pistol ) .

& Only the mares leg .410 model is illegal & deemed AOW/shotgun .
.

 

[taseal]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

Thanks guys. Great responses

 

[BCP]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KHOOKS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you but a stock on it that attaches to the rail and still be within the legal rules of the ATF. </div></div>

I really really really really doubt it as that would make it into an SBR.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twisted .308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If JUST the buffertube is pressed to the shoulder with NO modifications done ? this " should " be legal as it is un-modified from stock ...

what I want to know is how Rossi sells these as a pistol with a plain as day shoulder stock ???
This is what looks like the thing to get you in trouble shoulder firing !!!

</div></div>

What shoulder stock? All I see is a angled pistol grip sized for people with large hands.

 

[Twisted .308]

Re: Using Pistol AR shouldered

Oh yea ! Now I see the pistol Grip ! ... ;-)