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Hunting & Fishing Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

CoCaDoRi

revived old guy
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 7, 2001
1,562
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57
South Central North Dakota
March 27, 2012

News Release from the Northern Yellowstone Cooperative Wildlife Working Group

Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife & Parks (contact: Karen Loveless, 406/333-4211)
National Park Service (contact: Doug Smith, 307/344-2242)
U.S. Forest Service (contact: Rachel Feigley, USFS Livingston Office)
U.S. Geological Survey (contact: Paul Cross, 406/994-6908)

2011-2012 Winter Count of Northern Yellowstone Elk

The Northern Yellowstone Cooperative Wildlife Working Group conducted its annual winter survey of the Northern Yellowstone elk population on March 7, 2012. The survey, using three airplanes, was conducted by staff from the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife, and Parks and the National Park Service. Staff counted 4,174 elk, including 1,440 elk (34%) inside Yellowstone National Park and on Deckard Flats south of Bear Creek and 2,734 elk (66%) elsewhere north of the park. Survey conditions were favorable across the region with fresh snow and good visibility.

The count of 4,174 elk at the close of the 2012 winter season was ten percent lower than the 2011 winter count of 4635. Looking back further, between the winters of 2007 and the end of winter 2010, elk numbers ranged from 6,070 to 7,109.

The Working Group will continue to monitor trends of the northern Yellowstone elk population and evaluate the relative contribution of various components of mortality, including predation, environmental factors, and hunting. The Working Group was formed in 1974 to cooperatively preserve and protect the long-term integrity of the northern Yellowstone winter range for wildlife species by increasing our scientific knowledge of the species and their habitats, promoting prudent land management activities, and encouraging an interagency approach to answering questions and solving problems. The Working Group is comprised of resource managers and biologists from the Montana Fish, Wildlife, & Parks, National Park Service (Yellowstone National Park), U.S. Forest Service (Gallatin National Forest), and U.S. Geological Survey-Northern Rocky Mountain Science Center, Bozeman.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

I bet they will find that the wolf is the problem and won't do a thing to fix it.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Won't be long before some camper or hiker that doesn't like guns run into some problems with the wolf. Once the deer and elk numbers are lowered, what else is there for the wolf to eat.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Wolves have also decimated the moose population in the Jackson area. The young moose are no match for wolves and moose are becoming pretty rare in Jackson/Teton Park area. The grizzly population is doing very well as they take a number of kills from the wolves and dine to their hearts content. These bears have never eaten so well and are getting bigger than they have ever been.

It is a matter of time until a wolf dines on a visiting jogger.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thebolt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It is a matter of time until a wolf dines on a visiting jogger. </div></div>

I can't wait.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Does it make any sense that if the cause of the elk herd decline could be blamed on mining or logging or drilling that the antis would be crying bloody murder, but since they caused it it is called"natural balance"?
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Guys, ain't saying it can't or wont happen, but the wolves vs. humans thing is way over hyped. I've been 10m from one in the wilds with nary a worry, & a great sense of awe & respect.
The encounter I had with an elk at a similar distance was a bit adrenaline producing, despite having safe cover all of 1m away.

Here's an interesting read on the wolves vs. humans things, & also the roles of bears, & other big critters [prey] which play into the "math". Wolf Attacks on People The article's from "The Yellowstone Insider".

In my experience & from what's more or less common sense, yotes are far more of a threat... to people, & livestock. Many of'em have little fear of people any more, or rather just enough to stay out of sight if people are a danger to them at said moment. Particularly given that there are a lot of dog [pet type] coyote cross-breeds. There are no shortage of documented coyote attacks... on things with 2 legs or 4.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Order the DVD, you will shit your pants.

I never knew this but the Clinton era USFWS stole 60,000,000 dollars worth of Pittmans Robertson money to pay for it.

That's your hunting and fishing taxes.

Good anti-wolf pro hunting, pro God, pro gun movie.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

"yotes are far more of a threat"? Really?
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Those Canadians are having a good laugh. They tried to warn us.

Yes wolf attacks are rare but being harassed by wolves are much less rare. In these parts, we all know some one or we ourselves have been circled by a pack, or had our stock/pack animals (horses, mules, lamas, goats...) harassed, run off and/or lost. No, not ten feet off the highway or in a campground but when your back-in and you haven't seen another person for a few days. They frequently (yes I said frequently) encroach on small ranch-etts in populated areas such as Sun Valley and Boise. That no doubt pleases some people. I would say if you have or are seeking a seance of "awe and respect" by seeing a wolf in the wild, rent a video. It's got all the visuals that promise you an emotional high with none of the aggravation. One mile away... are you kidding? Try 30 yards. The only one who want wolves are those who don't have them.

Interesting times were in. A couple hundred years ago, and for all time before that, people weren't exactly sure where their next meal was coming from. I wonder what they'd think about importing super predators and protecting them?

I personally think that if the Feds haven't gone far enough. I think wolves should be re-introduced and protected in every state that ever historically had them, starting with, say... Maryland. They really don't need big wild areas to live in. Wolves in Europe do just fine in populated areas.

Of course it not all about "fair". Our government has a rich history of experimenting on anyone not directly in their line of sight or deemed unimportant. Like African Americans being injected with syphilis and re-introducing super predators in states where they're not wanted. What's next... re-introduce polio?
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

I had the pleasure of working out in big sky and west yellowstone for a few months a couple years ago. Absolutley fuckin beautiful country with some awesome wildlife. Its a damn shame some lib hippie has decided this massive carnivore needed some help...

I also remember at the time reports that the wolves were being found as far west as oregon and washington. Not supposed to leave the park my ass.

Still a shame as we do not have near the majestic animals down in TX.

And there is no way a yote could even compete on the same level as the wolves. As soon as they take a couple hippie backpackers maybe things will change as said. Sad fact is it might be to late to reverse by then.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

They're right here in my backyard. I live in North Central Washington state, and the DFW just announced that we have breeding pairs about 30-35 air miles SW of me, and tracks have been seen about 12-13 miles west of my house. They are moving into areas I hike and hunt with my dogs in.
Wolves have a predilection for domestic dogs, both as a threat and an easy meal. I'll be armed at all times, as usual, and deal with threats as needed.
If anyone wants I can link you to a study that showed a 29% harvest rate will not affect population, since they double every spring when the pups are born. A 'Shoot on Sight' harvest program will not reach this level.



1911fan
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They're right here in my backyard. I live in North Central Washington state, and the DFW just announced that we have breeding pairs about 30-35 air miles SW of me, and tracks have been seen about 12-13 miles west of my house. They are moving into areas I hike and hunt with my dogs in.
Wolves have a predilection for domestic dogs, both as a threat and an easy meal. I'll be armed at all times, as usual, and deal with threats as needed.
If anyone wants I can link you to a study that showed a 29% harvest rate will not affect population, since they double every spring when the pups are born. A 'Shoot on Sight' harvest program will not reach this level.



1911fan </div></div>

Washington's a pretty liberal state. You can't even legally trap moles or gophers there. I wouldn't expect any hope of controlling wolves in your lifetime. Say goodby to your elk population. You won't see it right away but eventually all your herds will have only old animals. The young get picked off quite easily. No, there's not a wolf behind every tree but you'll lose your quality elk herds just the same.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Yessir.


They have been spotted as far south as West of Wheatland.

Get ready Colorado, they are coming, if they aren't there yet.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Confirmed sightings in Irish Canyon, I have seem photos of tracks from along the Little Snake.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Cry Wolf is a awesome video, thanks for sharing it cocadori. It's sure a same how a select few can cause such damage. Don't know if it to late or not yet, but I do believe there will come a time when the damage won't be repairable in some areas.

But if they ever do smarten up, that aerial shooting sure sounds like fun, sign me up for that.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

ther have already been sightings in Colorado. just no one in govt. will admit to it.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike in Boise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Washington's a pretty liberal state. You can't even legally trap moles or gophers there. I wouldn't expect anyel hope of controlling wolves in your lifetime.</div></div>

Key word there is 'legally'.... Stupid city voters passed an initiative based on lies from PETA and HSUS. As for controlling wolves, I don't think we're going to wait for the appropriate regulations. The Lookout Pack up in the Methow area mysteriously disappeared recently.

Does anybody else have the feeling that we're headed for some civil unrest in the near future? It's not just cramming wolves down our throats, it's everything. Obamacare, $8/gallon gas, overregulation, and so on. I just think the normal (Christian, independent thinking, non-urbanite) people are getting pretty fed up with a lot of things. Obamas Executive Order two Fridays ago declared martial law in peacetime; DHS has ordered something like 175 million rounds of .223 and about four times that of .40 S&W; our elected leader is selling out our national security and our energy; and so on.

/thread hijack

1911fan
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

I saw a wolf 20 miles east of the Ca line in Nevada and about 40 miles south of the Oregon border in the fall of 07. I told people and they laughed and said it was a coyote. I had never seen a coyote that was over stirrup high to a man a horseback, and sure as hell not that reddish color. Well, its been confirmed we have a wolf in Ca now. Came down this winter from Oregon looking for a mate.

The feds are using the wolf as a means to destroy all the game animals, in a sense to eliminate all hunting without banning it.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

My brother-in-law lost his small breed dog to yotes in Washington State in a grab and go. One little yelp and he never saw the dog again. Having said that, they don't match wolves which are probably the most effective predators on the planet, except for humans of course.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Well, its been confirmed we have a wolf in Ca now. Came down this winter from Oregon looking for a mate.
</div></div>

Yep, but that is just 1 wolf that they "know about" because it has a radio collar. Who knows how many are here that dont have collars
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

As a hunter in the forest surrounding Yellowstone and an elk guide, I have seen over the past 10 years or so a great drop in the elk numbers. I hunt Northwest Wyoming and have seen wolves on many hunts. One ine particular hunt with a buddy, we were walking a ridge together and split an elk herd on the top of the ridge. My buddy shot an elk on one side of the hill and I shot an elk on the other side of the hill. We went down and cleaned and quartered his elk and them went to work on mine. Mine had been dead for about 30 minutes and when we topped the hill, there was a lone wolf on top of it starting to feast. We chased the wolf away without incident but they are certainly a large part of the problem. That night, there were wolves howling all around us as we hiked out. In Wyoming we have a black bear season but almost never see a black bear. We see more "protected and endangered" animals than we do black bears. The Grizzlies are another part of the problem. I have seen a few Griz kill elk calves before. It is time for Washington to stop telling us how to manage an eco system that they know nothing about. I think wolves were native to time square. Time for reintroduction?
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

Coyotes are not much of a problem to the elk. They do kill calves but not near as many as the wolves and bears.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike in Boise</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They're right here in my backyard. I live in North Central Washington state, and the DFW just announced that we have breeding pairs about 30-35 air miles SW of me, and tracks have been seen about 12-13 miles west of my house. They are moving into areas I hike and hunt with my dogs in.
Wolves have a predilection for domestic dogs, both as a threat and an easy meal. I'll be armed at all times, as usual, and deal with threats as needed.
If anyone wants I can link you to a study that showed a 29% harvest rate will not affect population, since they double every spring when the pups are born. A 'Shoot on Sight' harvest program will not reach this level.



1911fan </div></div>

Washington's a pretty liberal state. You can't even legally trap moles or gophers there. I wouldn't expect any hope of controlling wolves in your lifetime. Say goodby to your elk population. You won't see it right away but eventually all your herds will have only old animals. The young get picked off quite easily. No, there's not a wolf behind every tree but you'll lose your quality elk herds just the same. </div></div>

+1000 Agree completely.
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

My back yard...
10 years ago I could spend a september week in the backcountry, see 60+ elk, a few coyotes, 1 or 2 wolves, and a Grizz or 2 (maybe even a couple blackies). I'd hear elk bugling every day.
5 years ago I'd see 20-40 elk, 5-10 Grizz, see/hear 5 or so wolves, maybe 1 or 2 yotes, maybe 1 blackie, and hear elk bugling most days. Lost a deer to a Grizz 5 years ago less than a mile from the truck.
The last couple years I see grizzlies every day (8 in one day is the current record for me), see/hear wolves almost every day (80% at least), hardly any blackies, occasional yotes, and 5-15 elk- bugling is very quiet & doesn't last long. I sprayed an 800# grizzly at 6 feet in 2009, and had to give up an elk quarter to 2 subadult grizzlies in 2010.
I'm still ~80% likely to put elk in the freezer, but it's a lot harder now. Also, with all the political bs & lawsuits, we've been inconsistent in our hunting practices for wolves & they've gotten smarter. To be honest, the main reason I joined the hide is to develop my long range equipment & skills so I can be more effective at hunting wolves.
Now to be brutally honest, the biggest impact I see on elk herds is all the stupid-ass high dollar housing subdivisions that are taking over winter ranges for the herds. Each winter I see more elk trying to winter at high elevations because of all the dickweeds who had to have a "ranchette" in Montana.
Getting off the soapbox now
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

i can see that happening in Bozeman, Livingston, and surrounding areas. We are about 3 hours from Bozeman, planning to head there today, but housing is not as much of a problem here. Our hunting success used to be about 70-80% the past few years, we have been about 50%
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

I think wolves get blamed for some stock kills they didn't do but they kill so much you'll never know about, their reputation is well deserved.

You can't blame the wolves. They're just being wolves. What you've got is a bunch of libs with more time and money than what's healthy. They're organized and have a bottomless checkbook. They don't need to make sense. They just buy whatever legislation or agenda that's hot. We on the other hand buy guns and practice but in the end get crapped on and say "Thank you very much, may I have another please". It's not fair but that's how it is.

You Montana guys are seeing it. All those "ranchettes" pay some pretty high property taxes and you don't so you don't exist. Get rid of your Whites Boots and buy something with tassels cause that's going to be the new manly footwear!
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntermanpaul</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wolves: Smoke a pack a day! </div></div>
1+
 
Re: Yellowstone Elk Herd decimated...

I hear ya Mike- except I actually do have some faith in Montana's state government.

Some...

And I'm 1000% in favor of reintroducing wolves, bison, lions, wolverines, and especially grizzlies to the rest of the country!