Gunsmithing Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

[LRI]

I've been asked a few times so I'll share what I've learned over the last 6 months. (how long we've been at it.)

1. Buy a good respirator. Your grand children will thank you.
2. Wear a paint suit. Not cuz it looks cool or cuz I'm a Nancy. Because lint off your clothes transfers to the part due to static.
3. Buy a good gun. I went through 3 knockoffs and learned my lesson. I use a Develbis touch up gun with a 1mm orifice and a Sharps regulator.
4. 35psi at the gun
5. Use an inline water/oil remover at the gun
6. Clean your gun with Acetone.
7. Use racing methanol for soaking parts. It's cheaper than carb cleaner, acetone, and works awesome. $3.50/gallon vs $14.99+ for acetone
8. Soak your parts. I'm sure some have great luck with spraying stuff down and wiping it. I'm just sharing whats worked best for us. My thoughts are if you don't touch it, you can't eff it up. Rags can have chit in them. lint, dirt, oil, etc. We have to clean out our tank once a week. If you could see the crap that builds up in there, I think you'd agree that casually wiping it with carb cleaner will never get it sterile.
8. Sweat, soak, blast, soak again, apply finish. It mitigates contaminate buildup in your cabinet.
9. AL oxide is awesome, it's also stupid expensive. I use 80 grit Garnet with great result. 1/3rd the cost.
10. I blast at 100psi
11. If you buy a Grizzly blast cabinet GET THE BIG ONE. It'll do anything short of a small cannon. Ditch the gun it comes with and buy a good one with a carbide orifice metered for your compressors CFM output. Runs about $60 bucks.
12. Ovens: Everyone has great ideas and they are littered all over the G/S section of this site. Just sift through it and you'll see all sorts of cool ideas.
13. Ovens: Set it up with multiple thermometers so that you can be sure its heating evenly.
14. CeraKote cures by chemical reaction when in the presence of heat. Putting a fan in your oven (IMHO) only invites little dust particles to potentially settle on your stuff. We don't use one and have no issues.
15. If your doing a lot of it. Invest the time/effort/money in a paint booth. Were still scrubbing overspray off stuff here. It sucks. Build a booth!

If anyone else has a few juicy bits they'd like to contribute feel free.

Hope this helps.

C.

 

[lw8]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

Have you seen any performance or application differences between colors?

 

[LRI]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

Tugsten Grey has a very, very gritty/industrial feel to it.

I've got about 30 different pigments. Most are earth tones and your typical "gothic" looking blacks, grays.

So far they've all been pretty stable for us. Were about to use purple/white for the first time. I was encouraged to lower the heat and extend the cure time by the NIC rep I spoke with. I guess they are a little sensitive and can brown or change tone if you pour the coals to it.

C.

 

[lw8]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

Is there a trick to flattening th finish so that it is less reflective?

 

[Field]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lw8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a trick to flattening th finish so that it is less reflective? </div></div>

Less hardener

 

[oneyardstare]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

What are the main differences between oven-cure and air-cure Cerakote, such as strength, lubricity and mechanical propertys?

 

[LRI]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

I believe NIC has material performance/data sheets online at their site.

Rather than regurgitate and/or pass on bum scoop I'd say start their.

C.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

I fused a butt fusion cap on a piece of 2" pe pipe and cut it about 42" long. It is tits for rem and rugers, but winchesters are a tight fit. 3" would be perfect. The 2" uses about a quart and a half and can 100% submerge the barreled action, and sin e it can stand up, all the chit in the barrel ends up on the bottom. If you have any cronies at your local gas or propane provider, they will likely give you one.

Buy black filters for your respirator. They are organic compound. Store it in a ziploc bag, or it will waste its life trying to attack the organics in the air.

Lots of light.

I too am all about the garnet. Don't dump the whole bag in the blaster. I use about 2 quarts worth. It is cheaper to change if it gets contaminated, makes it easy to swap out when it wears, and my pickup likes it that way.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

You are spot on Chad. The only thing I would add is the following.

Gun Metal Gray has so much metallic in it we can't filter it. It just won't go through the filter but it still sprays okay. Pink will fade if it gets too hot. White will turn yellow if too warm or too long. Coyote tan will darken too hot or too long.

We spray in the middle of the shop and sometimes within 20 feet of my dark blue van. Never had any issues with over spray. It's dry 4-5 feet out from our gun. It just blows or wipes right off the vehicles and sweeps right up. Interesting difference in experience here.

The issue of 80 grit is not readily apparent. On a rifle it may not really show for quite awhile. Especially if it is taken care of it may never be an issue. We do a lot of handguns that see leather and kydex holsters. Too deep of surface profile will allow the metal peaks to be exposed prematurely and can rust in wet climates on the worn areas. .0005"-.001" coating thickness optimally covers and holds best over a surface prepped with 100-120 grit. When NIC developed it they experimented with different profiles and to get the peak performance from the coating this was the range of grit that gave the best results. Cerakote is so far beyond the competitions coatings that even applied over less than ideal surface profile I bet it still is far more abrasion resistant than the competition. I have seen guns we have coated dropped and the metal dented and the Cerakote is still intact right through the dents.

Here are a few of the things we were allowed to photograph during training. Note the actual baking temp of NIC's oven. Then the actual testing equipment used on every batch to assure quality control before a drop is shipped. Notice the respirator their instructor wears. We were issued dust masks.

Inside NIC during our training.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

This needs to be a sticky.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

Nice post, Chad...and a good thread. Reading the details and having talked it over with Ernie @ RCT, I'm glad to leave it to the pros.

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

I too have found that the cheaper and locally available 80 grit garnet works like a charm in surface prep, and leaves nothing to be desired.
When degreasing assemblies that don't come apart, like an AK barrel in a riveted trunion, after initial degreasing heating the part will make all of that crap you couldn't quite get to come out, to come out, then redegreasing will lift it.
I like soaking parts, if they are relatively clean to begin with, but have learned that when soaking something that has had a apray containing silicone, it can hide on the surface of the rinse and partially reapply itself when withdrawing the part.
To combat this, after soaking I will hang the part (AR uppers and lowers are the worst I have encountered) spray it down with some aerosol with diamond dissolving properties, and brush it straight down with and rinsing it in more said aerosol. Has worked well so far for me.
The oil/water trap is paramount to success, and a quality gun is as equal to everything in success.
The stuff I used for the mildly gooey silicone parts was an automotive paint prep product with a green label way back when...... anybody? Tru Strip maybe?

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

Thanks man, nice write up. It's not common that professionals share their knowledge/process with just anyone. One or two tips from someone can save you lots of aggravation (and cash!) I prefer NOT to learn by my mistakes............

 

[LRI]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

Gun cleaning: (paint guns)

I like fast/simple stuff. Pulling the gun apart all the time irked me as it takes too long, beats up the packing seals around the needle, and costs money in the long run.

Here's what I did to solve it:

Pappagrizzly sells a 10 gallon solvent tank. I bought one and modified it to clean guns. I took a melling sb chevy oil pump and pulled it apart. Ditched the steel pump gears and made new ones from bronze. Bronze won't spark, so it mitigates a fire hazard.

Bought a transdapt dual oil filter adapter for a car. Put 2 fram filters on it. Plumbed up a manifold (brass fittings) from the pump to the filters and out to 2 brass air hose fittings.

I use an air powered drill hooked up to an oil pump priming tool available at any race engine/hot rod shop.

Attach your gun to one of the fittings quick release couplers (remove the regulator and go to a fitting only)

My guns are gravity feed hvlps. I ditched the cups and switched to the disposable cup system made by 3M. They use a qd mount for the bladders. I took one of the lid/filter pieces, peeled the screen off, shoved an air fitting into the hole, attached some viton fuel line, and made a flushing hose that'll attach directly to the gun where the paint goes.

Open both knobs on you gun to fully open, grab the drill, and clean your gun in less than 30 seconds.

Its worked great for the last 4 months.

The air fittings go to hell in about 2 weeks. Luckily they are cheap to replace.

Viton fuel line tolerates acetone/methanol well and lasts a long time. We just recently switched to methanol for everything. I made a baffle/sump setup out of sheet metal for the tank with idea it would slow evaporation of the acetone. It didn't. Stuff still didn't last very long. So I tried methanol in it last week and it worked great. Guns come out squeaky clean so we switched over to it for everything. It cuts C-kote and the single stage/dual stage paints we use very well.

CHEAPER! $3.60/gallon vs $13.99-$24.99 for acetone. (I've seen the same stuff priced in that range at various stores in my area)

If you make one, a few suggestions:

Use an air drill to power it. A battery driven drill can spark. That will potentially kill you in a horibble way.

Bronze or brass on anything that might produce a spark. I even went so far as to ditch the steel threaded filter mounts on the trans dapt oil filter mount. I bought brass ones and replaced them. This way a steel filter housing can't spark when installing/removing the filter.

Took me a couple days to make but the time savings has already paid for itself. Best part is the paint guns are flushed at every orifice, your hands aren't soaking in bad for you solvents, the shop stays cleaner, and it works!

Last. The red powder coat on the tank isn't going to like the acetone/methanol. We had to remove it using 3m rolok disks. That sucked. Powder coating is a bitch to remove. If you don't, it'll instantly stain your solvent pink and make everything sticky.

Found this out the hard way.

Hope this helps. It sure did for us.

C.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

As always, great info.

Maybe I'm looking at things wrong, but instead of all the bronze infrastructure and whatnot, couldn't a "weighted" fuel bladder be used to create both pressure and flow. When finished, just remove the weight?

Just throwing that out there.

 

[LRI]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

And fill it back up how?

Also if something goes wrong, how to shut it off?

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

Look at the flammable range of your solvents. They will be given in a 2-20% format. If your pump is submerged, it is at 100% so you are way safe......as long as you keep the stuff below its boiling and auto ignition points.....you have no worries.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

I use a piece of poly pipe with a cap fused on. You can get one from your local natural gas or propane supplier. 2" is a tight fit on a win action, 3" is perfect. Get a shipping cap too.....no evaporation, uses little solvent and let's all the chit run down to the bottom.

 

[LRI]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

When literally standing directly over 10+ gallons of methanol (which burns almost colorless) I figured its better to err to side of caution.

Last thing I'm interested in doing is running around the shop like a roman candle. . .

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

As a precaution, you could tape some marbs to your tank.....if they are getting short....time to sweep the base of that tank with ol' red....lol

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Stuff I've learned regarding C-Kote

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And fill it back up how?

Also if something goes wrong, how to shut it off?</div></div>

My thoughts were along this line:

Bladder

Then, a simple ball valve for on/off, and then a flow-restricter if necessary. Prudent, for sure. For cleaning the guns, i just thought something along this route would require less plumbing jewellery and be less problematic at the same time.

Or not, by all means. Just thought I'd throw the suggestion out there, not a derailment.