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Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

P

pdogsbeware

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Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 10, 2011
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Colorado/Minnesota
First off, No I'm not bashing reloading. I do handload. I was just curious...when I was still shooting a .308...how come Federal's Gold Medal Match, or any other match ammo for that reason (Black Hills and such), works pretty good in darn near every rifle (yes, there will be a few they don't group well in, but rare) But yet handloads are the opposite, will work in only one rifle (MAYBE a few different ones).

Example. Say I have 3 guns, A, B, and C. If I shoot FGMM in all three, there's a very good chance I could get .75 MOA out of all of them. At least under MOA. Agreed?

Now I know .308 and 22-250 are two different animals, but I'm on my third 22-250 barrel, and for shits and giggles have tried the best load from barrel #1 in barrels #2 and 3. The SAME load, in barrel #1 was just under half inch groups (5 shots, 100 yards), but in #2 it was 2.5 inches, and in barrel #3 it was 1.75 inches.

So the question...how can one bullet and powder combo (factory match ammo) be good (not perfect though) in many rifles...but yet one bullet and powder combo of handloads will be very inconsistent accuracy wise in different rifles?

I'm not going to get offended, just tell me if I'm stupid and missed something. Like maybe I just got the three barrels that happened to act like this haha. But I would like only quality answers with some semblance of facts or a good explanation. But I don't know why I bother saying that, because we all know there's going to be plenty of useless comments haha.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

They use Fairy dust!!!!!
eek.gif
Figured I'd start ya off! Seriously, I've been frustrated, and had the same question, for years. I've been searching for the "perfect formula", and it alludes me.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good read here about why FGMM works so well.
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

</div></div>
I read this article some time ago. It seems make sense. If stay in the middle of the bell curve you have predictable results.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

Bacarrat
Thanks for the link to a great article, I've often wondered the same thing. The article puts things in perspective and perfectly answers pdogsbeware questions.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

My experience is like yours with regards to FGMM doing well in just about everything. Comparing it to a 22-250 though is just apples to oranges. The .308 is a fantastic caliber because it is so forgiving, much more so than a 22-250, which has nearly the same capacity but a little tiny bore.

My go to load for .308 is 44gr varget with lapua brass and a lapua 155. Just a safe load to go shoot in a new rifle, pre load development. I personally have made that load for several of my 308's and several friends guns, including an M1A. All of those rifles were full or semi custom, and they all put rounds into the 1/2 moa area. Nothing magic about the load, just good components used a reloaders dream of a cartridge.

Having said all that, FGMM is just bitchin stuff(and spendy $$).
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

In my Savage 223 varmint ,the best load i ever found was Norma Diamond line that was loaded by Black Hills .Better than any hand load i could come up with . Arnie
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

Nothing magic about it.

If you load .308 168gr SMK, you will find it very forgiving. 168gr FGMM is about 2550 FPS out of a 20" barrel. This 2550 FPS is lights out for 168gr SMK Bullets. This is a fairly light load. It's only about 41.9gr in LC cases.

I once pulled 8 bullets of 168gr FGMM and found the variance between high and low charge weight to be about 0.6 grains. So it is definitely not about consistency with charges!

At one time, I was going to take a box of FGMM and analyze every round it it (weigh powder, cases, bullets; measure seating depth, case volume, exterior case dimension, etc)... however found out there was no need, I just needed to use 168gr SMKs and get the velocity to 2550 FPS (out of a 20" barrel) and bam! I have my own 168gr FGMM at 1/3rd the cost.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

i never heard of anyone winning any 1000y contests with FGMM.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

you've never heard of someone using a bullet designed for 300m shooting win at 1k. hmm, interesting....

that's like saying nobody has ever won a Olympic medal using .338 Lapua. so the .338 must suck....

think about it.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

There is one more thing Federal does with FGMM that we as reloaders <basically> can't::

Federal mixes several batches of powder (hundreds of pounds)until their ballistics lab says that batch has the "right pressure curve", not just the peak, but the correct shape over time.

This desensitizes the manufacture of the cartriges from the slings and arrows of the bell curve distribution of powder pressure curve shapes.

Then the rest of the load development (years ago) is done with OCW-like specifications.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is one more thing Federal does with FGMM that we as reloaders <basically> can't::

Federal mixes several batches of powder (hundreds of pounds)until their ballistics lab says that batch has the "right pressure curve", not just the peak, but the correct shape over time.

This desensitizes the manufacture of the cartriges from the slings and arrows of the bell curve distribution of powder pressure curve shapes.

Then the rest of the load development (years ago) is done with OCW-like specifications. </div></div>

How do you test the pressure curve from an entire batch?
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

How do you test the pressure curve from an entire batch?

god tests it for them and then sends them a sign....

wait for the sign and ye shall see
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

I don't know, but my Tango 51 and 20" barrel yield about 2650FPS with FGMM in .308. In reloading I have never been able to better the accuracy of the FGGM in my rifle. I have had several Tac-Ops .308 and they were all the same. I can duplicate velocities, Low extreme spread, but accuracy is never better. I reload to save $$$ and use Lapua brass, Federal 210M, and Sierra 168Match King bullets. Varget has been good as well as 4064 and will try some of the new 223CFE.
I don't clean my barrel until it begins to shoot bad. With my rifle cold and dirty it will always shoot inside of a 1" paste-on circle, if I do my part. Good enough for me.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

I can beat FGMM with my handloads in my Tac Ops... but it seems like I am one of the few.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bkster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you test the pressure curve from an entire batch? </div></div>

A) mix well
B) test a sample of the resuting mixture
C) adjust mixture and return to A if goal is not achieved.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: escopeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't clean my barrel until it begins to shoot bad. With my rifle cold and dirty it will always shoot inside of a 1" paste-on circle, if I do my part. Good enough for me. </div></div>

I've seen the test groups on Tac-Ops rifles and you can just about shoot a. 308 inside of a .308" circle if you do YOUR part! Maaaaybe .310".


I'll agree that the 168gr SMK is a forgiving bullet. I don't consider myself the best shot, my barrel is pitted, and I'm not benchrest-anal with reloading but as long as I get speeds of about 2550-2600fps I have .5-.7 MOA groups out of my factory R700. I can reload my FGMM recipe for significantly less too.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bkster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you test the pressure curve from an entire batch? </div></div>

A) mix well
B) test a sample of the resuting mixture
C) adjust mixture and return to A if goal is not achieved. </div></div>

or you can just load it yourself till you get 2550 FPS.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bkster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you test the pressure curve from an entire batch? </div></div>

A) mix well
B) test a sample of the resuting mixture
C) adjust mixture and return to A if goal is not achieved. </div></div>

or you can just load it yourself till you get 2550 FPS. </div></div>

You MAY get the same velocity, you will NOT get the shame shape for the pressure curve.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

Federals lab tests the powder per batch and they adjust the load to hit the desired velocity and bell curve as stated above. We are using cannister grade powder and have to try to get the same lot number of powder if we want that level of consistency or change our load and restest from pound or 8 pounder to the next one. I think I read some where that the charge on FGMM can vary as much as +- two grains between batches due to the variances. Most of us would freak if our loads varied that much.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

I'm able to do much better with handloads than FGMM.
I do it by using quality components, consistint technique, and attention to detail.
(FWIW, FGMM results are easy to dupe using RE15, Federal 210 primers and SMKs)

Just for giggles, pull 10 FGMM bullets and weigh the charges...
They are usually +/- One Grain!
I started reloading for the performance edge, not the cost savings.
(The lower cost is nice, but the time required is not.)
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

It may shoot but Federal Brass sucks.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kolkio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It may shoot but Federal Brass sucks. </div></div>

That shitty brass is part of the reason it shoots well rifle to rifle.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm able to do much better with handloads than FGMM.</div></div>

So do I, but that was not the question at hand.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bkster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you test the pressure curve from an entire batch? </div></div>

A) mix well
B) test a sample of the resuting mixture
C) adjust mixture and return to A if goal is not achieved. </div></div>

or you can just load it yourself till you get 2550 FPS. </div></div>

You MAY get the same velocity, you will NOT get the shame shape for the pressure curve. </div></div>

What does that mean?
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

"It may shoot but Federal Brass sucks."

That's common 'web knowledge' from group-think web gurus but most of us know it's just BS.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"It may shoot but Federal Brass sucks."

That's common 'web knowledge' from group-think web gurus but most of us know it's just BS. </div></div>

I agree it's BS, I have no problems with FGMM brass. Not my preferred brass only because it's a minority. I like LC cases because I have about 2000+ cases of LC, they rule by majority.
 
Re: Why does FGMM do so well from gun to gun?

True it's BS. . You take the Fed. GMM .308 & simply take the empties & Neck it .336 & load it with 43 grn. of #15 & shoot It . & the groups shrink smaller in size from the Factory box loaded ammo .

Factory GMM is ok & consistent & is better than a lot of box factory ammo sold . But it's 'No Way superior for accuracy' than a hand load using the same 1x form-fired Brass with consistent Neck tension . & the Fed. factory powder is no more superior than using over the shelf bought Reloader or Varget with the hand load .
.
 
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