F T/R Competition Top Level F T/R Shooters

[hammerhead]

I have a few quick questions for the top F T/R shooters (eg Darrell, USFTR, Laurie etc).

On average, approx what round count do you personally get from your competition 308s before replacing the barrel?

Is the current trend towards heavier projectiles (208s, 210s) justified or is the recoil/BC trade-off just not producing higher match scores?

Setting team rifle specs aside, how would you personally spec your next F T/R barrel?

Thanks.

 

[USFTR]

Re: Top Level F T/R Shooters

I have one barrel with over 3k rounds that still shoots extremely well. I've only retired one barrel and it had 2400 rounds on it. My other barrels (about 8) are not shot out.

My best load is with Berger 185BT. I'm experimenting with the heavier hybrid bullets and I keep getting beat by shooters using 185's. But I'm still pushing forward. Recoil is substantial for sure.

M next FTR barrel could go either way, but I'm partial to longer 32.25" heavy Palma barrels. I have barrels from 30" to 33.75".

 

[scaxeman]

Re: Top Level F T/R Shooters

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hammerhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a few quick questions for the top F T/R shooters (eg Darrell, USFTR, Laurie etc).

On average, approx what round count do you personally get from your competition 308s before replacing the barrel?

<span style="color: #000099">I am currently running 155.5's, *very* fast (~3125 fps). This is a hot load by any measure. With this load, I got 5500 rounds on my last barrel before it finally quit (sadly in the middle of a competition). It was a bit of an experiment, to see exactly how far I could push the (stock Savage 1:12 twist heavy barrel) before it had enough.

Ordinarily, I replace after 4000-4500 rounds, generally every year or so.</span>


Is the current trend towards heavier projectiles (208s, 210s) justified or is the recoil/BC trade-off just not producing higher match scores?

<span style="color: #000099">At this point in time, it is a pretty even split between shooters running *fast* 155's and those running heavier bullets. It is simplicity itself to get a good 155 grain load developed, and if they are run fast, it takes a lot to get the heavy bullets to match them. That said, more and more shooters are finding the formula for 185's, 200,s, etc. so there is starting to be a bit of an advantage to running the heavies. The heavies will never have the spectacular accuracy (vertical group) that the 155's do. Their trade-off is in reduced wind drift. for 200 grains and under, it is an extremely level playing field. You get better vertical out of the light bullets, but better wind drift out of the heavies. There is not a clearly defined path as yet.

When you get into the "uber-heavies"; 210+ grain, the difference begins to be more clear. The reduced wind drift becomes more dramatic. The groups are just as bad (or worse) than the other heavies, but the better BC makes up for a lot of failings.

Unfortunately, it is *very* difficult to get the uber-heavies to run in a .308 (no great revelation there). It requires much tinkering, massive amounts of load development, and barrel work. If we keep going down this road, I see that *everyone* that wants to be competitive will need to go this route to one extent or another. This will not be conducive to the "level playing field" that has had people flocking to F-T/R, and I feel that it will hurt the class in the long run. </span> <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-weight: bold">It is for this reason that I will propose rule changes, both Nationally, and Internationally after next year (not to affect Worlds, it's far too late to change anything associated with Worlds) to cap the F-T/R bullet weight at 201 grains.</span></span> <span style="color: #000099">To be sure, it will pain me personally, as I am able to get the uber-heavies to run well, and fast, but for the overall health of the sport, we should keep things "real" in F-T/R, not turn it into F-Open "lite". (In my opinion)

</span>

Setting team rifle specs aside, how would you personally spec your next F T/R barrel?

<span style="color: #000099">Honestly, right now (if I was running a custom barrel), I would go with a 30" finished length, full taper (~.995-ish) at muzzle, 1:11.25 twist, .299" bore.

The aforementioned length and taper will be a good compromise between making weight, and heavy barrel performance. The 1:11.25 twist will stabilize nicely anything from a 155 grain bullet up to a 200 grain one, giving you the maximum flexibility as regards your future bullet selection </span>

Thanks.
</div></div>

Hope this helps,

Darrell

 

[hammerhead]

Re: Top Level F T/R Shooters

Thanks Jeff and Darrell. You just made my <span style="font-style: italic">next barrel/which bullet</span> decision a whole lot easier. I had been leaning towards setting up to shoot the 208s but in light of your comments I'll stick with 155s for now and give the 185 hybrids a try too.

Jeff, it surprised me to read that you too had such a low round count on your retired barrel. My current 308 barrel died just shy of 3000 rounds. I was prepared for when my 260 turned up its toes at around 2000 but the 308's early demise caught me off guard.

Darrell, good luck with changing the rules to keep the playing field level. I wholeheartedly support the principle. However, even 201 grains tips the playing field in favor of more solidly built shooters. If you really want F T/R to be solely a test of skill, then the combination of max bullet wt and max rifle wt should favor no particular body type. Recoil doesn't bother me (I occasionally shoot a 338LM without a brake), but I would not like to beat a better shooter in F T/R just because I can handle recoil better. Everyone seems to find the 155s easy to shoot. Where the upper limit is for lightly framed shooters I have no idea, but in fairness, that is where I would set the bullet weight limit. (These thoughts are worth exactly what you paid for them

)

Thanks again for your comments.

David

 

[scaxeman]

Re: Top Level F T/R Shooters

David,

I have seen how the unlimited bullet weight has been a real boost for participation in F-T/R. It has given people somewhere to tinker and experiment, basically; innovate. By capping the bullet weight at 201, you give folks room to work and develop, but don't let it get so far out there that you *have* to be a home gunsmith in order to be competitive (a' la benchrest, etc. ). Your average Joe can show up with a *stock* rifle, and with some reloading skill, can be reasonably competitive. If everyone has migrated to 215's (or heavier), the newer shooters would be absolutely shredded. In the long run, this won't let us continue the spectacular growth we've seen in F-T/R over the last 6+ years.

Up to around 200 grains, there are enough "checks and balances" in bullet choices that the playing field is pretty flat. The trade off seems to be 155 grain for better "pure" accuracy, but a little more drift, or 200 grain for less wind deflection, but *significantly* more technique sensitivity (and less "pure" accuracy).

Darrell

 

[b_4]

Re: Top Level F T/R Shooters

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">David,

I have seen how the unlimited bullet weight has been a real boost for participation in F-T/R. It has given people somewhere to tinker and experiment, basically; innovate. By capping the bullet weight at 201, you give folks room to work and develop, but don't let it get so far out there that you *have* to be a home gunsmith in order to be competitive (a' la benchrest, etc. ). Your average Joe can show up with a *stock* rifle, and with some reloading skill, can be reasonably competitive. If everyone has migrated to 215's (or heavier), the newer shooters would be absolutely shredded. In the long run, this won't let us continue the spectacular growth we've seen in F-T/R over the last 6+ years.

Up to around 200 grains, there are enough "checks and balances" in bullet choices that the playing field is pretty flat. The trade off seems to be 155 grain for better "pure" accuracy, but a little more drift, or 200 grain for less wind deflection, but *significantly* more technique sensitivity (and less "pure" accuracy).

Darrell
</div></div>

Darrell is right. Keep F-T/R a shooters competition. I enjoy having to see the wind (even as I am still just learning).

 

[hammerhead]

Re: Top Level F T/R Shooters

Darrell,

F T/R is just starting to get off the ground here in Australia. Until the competition is officially sanctioned by our NRAA, F T/R often has to be shot under F/Open rules because in our other F-Class comp., F/Std., 308 projectiles are limited to certain makes of the 155s. Shooting unapproved bullets such as the 155 Scenar, puts a 308 shooter in F/Open.

I moved to F T/R for the very reasons you mentioned and hope that we will eventually see rapid growth in this country as well. It may take quite a while though because F/Std is well established and doing well.

David