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Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EricF517

EricF517

Online Training Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 5, 2009
659
0
Howell, Michigan
Ok my wife's Mini SASS used to shoot 1/2"-3/4" but now the same load a year later is key holing at 100y. I have no clue what is going on. Here are the targets from today.

2012-05-27_20-25-47_109.jpg

2012-05-27_20-26-09_797.jpg

2012-05-27_20-26-13_986.jpg


This is the same load and how it used to shoot

75-varget--248g.jpg
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you put on a new scope or make any changes to the sight since the last time it shot well?

My guess is that you're skipping the bullet into the target.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricF517</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes new scope </div></div>

Yep, seen it a million times. Try bore-sighting it to get you back on paper and then fine tune it. Sounds stupid but it's a pretty common problem and we've all done shit like that.

Bullets want to stabilize, hence their design so it would be an real accomplishment to get one toppling end over end without hitting the ground at 100yrds.

I could also see it happening if the load was WAY too light but it would have to be extremely light.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shooting over any rises in the ground somewhere in between you and the target?

Skipped bullets will keyhole........

HPIM2775.jpg

HPIM2773.jpg

HPIM2774.jpg

HPIM2778.jpg
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I like is some jerk shooting at the 50 yard line and his bullets spraying all over my tight little groups at 100. And, he could be ten benches off to the side. And, that's not all. I hate guys with magnums and muzzle breaks. They should be segregated from normal people. Oh, and the deer hunter who stands up on his hind legs and fires a whole magazine just as quick as he can yank the trigger. How about the military type, (you can tell by his camo outfit) who is dropping hot M1 brass down your neck? End of rant. BB

edit: those are some of the reasons why I don't go to the range on days when it's open to the public.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I like is some jerk shooting at the 50 yard line and his bullets spraying all over my tight little groups at 100. And, he could be ten benches off to the side. And, that's not all. I hate guys with magnums and muzzle breaks. They should be segregated from normal people. Oh, and the deer hunter who stands up on his hind legs and fires a whole magazine just as quick as he can yank the trigger. How about the military type, (you can tell by his camo outfit) who is dropping hot M1 brass down your neck? End of rant. BB

edit: those are some of the reasons why I don't go to the range on days when it's open to the public.</div></div>

Did you post in the wrong thread? Or did you just find a random spot and flip on the bitch switch?
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Did you post in the wrong thread? Or did you just find a random spot and flip on the bitch switch? </div></div>
Good one!

I would check the crown on your gun, or your load. I don't see how a scope change could affect bullet flight at 100 yards.
I'm assuming the OP has enough sense to know if he is bouncing bullets off the ground in front of the target.

Oh, and BB, I shoot braked magnums, yep, after firing 3 shots, I'm usually segregated. I think my little pea shooters, 6.5x47's are braked also. Today when 5 of us convene for our annual Memorial Day shoot, it will be all braked magnums, and electronic ear muffs, 25mph winds, it just doesn't get any better.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also don't forget to check that you are reloading with the correct bullets. A smaller diameter bullet will keyhole at as close as 25 yards. The guys that fire form with smaller bullets will understand.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't see how a scope change could affect bullet flight at 100 yards.
</div></div>

The scope itself doesn't affect the flight of the bullet but it does affect where the bullet hits. This is a pretty common problem, e.g. skipping bullets into the target. A burr or anything else on the crown isn't enough to cause a bullet to tumble at 100 yrds.

Good point Asprec.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well after the comment about the optic it got me thinking. I totally forgot that the PST was on her Savage 12 with a 30moa base. So today it is being bore sighted and shot again.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricF517</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well after the comment about the optic it got me thinking. I totally forgot that the PST was on her Savage 12 with a 30moa base. So today it is being bore sighted and shot again. </div></div>

smile.gif
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the bullet skips into the target at 100 yds it's gonna come apart! Isn't it? Something else is wrong, not changing scopes and skipping bullets.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcrich</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the bullet skips into the target at 100 yds it's gonna come apart! Isn't it? </div></div>

Nope. They hold together just fine.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I like is some jerk shooting at the 50 yard line and his bullets spraying all over my tight little groups at 100. And, he could be ten benches off to the side. And, that's not all. I hate guys with magnums and muzzle breaks. They should be segregated from normal people. Oh, and the deer hunter who stands up on his hind legs and fires a whole magazine just as quick as he can yank the trigger. How about the military type, (you can tell by his camo outfit) who is dropping hot M1 brass down your neck? End of rant. BB

edit: those are some of the reasons why I don't go to the range on days when it's open to the public.</div></div>

Did you post in the wrong thread? Or did you just find a random spot and flip on the bitch switch? </div></div>

lolz
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It appears I hit a nerve with the control freaks?? But, Milo, I thought we were buds? Trevor, which are you, I'm guessing the lever action 30-30, right? They might make you moderator! (just kidding) BB
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Did you post in the wrong thread? Or did you just find a random spot and flip on the bitch switch? </div></div>
Good one!

I would check the crown on your gun, or your load. I don't see how a scope change could affect bullet flight at 100 yards.
I'm assuming the OP has enough sense to know if he is bouncing bullets off the ground in front of the target.

Oh, and BB, I shoot braked magnums, yep, after firing 3 shots, I'm usually segregated. I think my little pea shooters, 6.5x47's are braked also. Today when 5 of us convene for our annual Memorial Day shoot, it will be all braked magnums, and electronic ear muffs, 25mph winds, it just doesn't get any better. </div></div>

Problem is I wasn't watching down range. I was watching the wife shoot and adjusting how she was doing things.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With the right soil/grass conditions it can be impossible to see a bullet strike on the ground. If you can't understand this then you haven't shot much in your limited life/experience. The pics I posted were from a combination of a slight rise in the ground mid way to the target and a scope that wasn't zero'd.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the right soil/grass conditions it can be impossible to see a bullet strike on the ground. If you can't understand this then you haven't shot much in your limited life/experience. The pics I posted were from a combination of a slight rise in the ground mid way to the target and a scope that wasn't zero'd. </div></div>
Sorry, I missed your pics, where can I find them?
To the OP, did you ever figure out what went on?
How high off the ground were the targets?

I just want to know in case I can start using deflections for hits, or better yet, banking bullets off of buildings for hits, in case I'm in a gunfight. How high can a bullet bounce, or ricochet, on a consistent basis? Would distance come into play on this?
With a 30moa min base, to a 0moa base, thinking tolerances were close, the gun should have been shooting high without a boresight.
I'm calling Bob Munden for some insight.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the right soil/grass conditions it can be impossible to see a bullet strike on the ground. If you can't understand this then you haven't shot much in your limited life/experience. The pics I posted were from a combination of a slight rise in the ground mid way to the target and a scope that wasn't zero'd. </div></div>
One more tripwire, I was always under the assumption when you mounted a scope to a new gun, you zero the scope.
I've seen incidental hits on steel at long range, most of the time NOT. Once a bullet hits the ground, it's anybody's guess.
I shoot approximatly 8000rds a year, handgun, ar, and long range. Ok I'm limited, I've just never been around someone bouncing bullets into his own target, never the less someone else's.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With a 30moa min base, ... the gun should have been shooting high without a boresight. </div></div>

Nope.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the right soil/grass conditions it can be impossible to see a bullet strike on the ground. If you can't understand this then you haven't shot much in your limited life/experience. The pics I posted were from a combination of a slight rise in the ground mid way to the target and a scope that wasn't zero'd. </div></div>

Sorry, I missed your pics, where can I find them?

</div></div>


Really?

Going back to page one of this very thread is too much bother....or didn't it cross your mind?

Gotta have at least one in every crowd, don't we........
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the right soil/grass conditions it can be impossible to see a bullet strike on the ground. If you can't understand this then you haven't shot much in your limited life/experience. The pics I posted were from a combination of a slight rise in the ground mid way to the target and a scope that wasn't zero'd. </div></div>

One more tripwire, I was always under the assumption when you mounted a scope to a new gun, you zero the scope.

</div></div>

Um yeah, but when you mount that scope wouldn't you consider the condition of the scope not zero'd until you, like, shoot, and get it zero'd?

Sorry I didn't spell it out a little simpler, for you to understand better.

Damn....8K rounds a year....you a rockin' muther ain't ya..........
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sorry I didn't spell it out a little simpler, for you to understand better.
</div></div>
Trip,
Sorry, srolling through, I thought they were the op's pics.

As for spelling it out for me, no need.

I'm not the one bouncing bullets off the fucking ground into targets, then taking pics of it, and posting them on the web to educate the rest of the shooting community on what can happen when you're not sure of where your bullets are going to hit.

And for binder, quoting someone, then changing the wording??
That is some lowball shit!
Educate me in a pm as to how moa bases work.

On a hot summer afternoon, I witnessed a guy shooting a ".220" Swift kill 2 prarie dogs about a foot apart on three seperate occasions, by hitting just in front of both of them. Through our limited life experiences, we came to the conclusion that the bullet came apart when it hit the ground.
Now I know it must have been something else.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have seen bullets bounce/ricochet and tumble before and not come apart. I have target locations at 100,200,350,5500, and 600 yard locations for paper. Ive seen bullets stuck in the wood and rips in paper from shooting at closer distances then striking another target down range. However I'm sure some of them have came apart as well. I'm sure it has something to do with what exactly it strikes, what angle it strikes it at etc.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would say that I must have been over 2' low. When I looked through the bore yesterday I was roughly 12mils low.

Constantly hitting the target was my wife. She was getting about a 12-14" group skipping them along to the target. Rifle is back to 3/4moa now.

I guess I should have taken the time to slow down and not let her excitement get me excited or I would have remembered to bore sight the thing.

On a side now I didn't crimp her bullets this time around and lost about 40fps it seems. So going back today and running some finely adjusted loads with a crimp to see if the ES and SD's shrink down and speed picks back up.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've just never been around someone bouncing bullets into his own target,</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On a hot summer afternoon, I witnessed a guy shooting a ".220" Swift kill 2 prarie dogs about a foot apart on three seperate occasions, by hitting just in front of both of them. </div></div>


Um, liar, maybe....??

Which one is the truth...you've never seen it, or, you've seen it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Through our limited life experiences, we came to the conclusion that the bullet came apart when it hit the ground.
Now I know it must have been something else. </div></div>

Assuming a light skinned varmit bullet this surprises you, and you had to actually had to ponder it.....really?

I'd say you are VERY limited in your experience if the the possibilty of an FMJ, as in the case I posted (page one in case you can't find it), skipping at mid range and not coming apart completely escapes you.

But, by your own admission you are the smartest mother fucker in here.....congrats?

All knowing Net Rangers are so much fun..........
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And for binder, quoting someone, then changing the wording??
That is some lowball shit!
Educate me in a pm as to how moa bases work.</div></div>

I didn't change the wording, I removed the extraneous stuff for easier reading, none of my edited changes the meaning.

Here's what you orginally said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With a 30moa min base, <span style="color: #FF0000">to a 0moa base, thinking tolerances were close,</span> the gun should have been shooting high without a boresight.
</div></div>

Here's how I edited it:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With a 30moa min base, ... the gun should have been shooting high without a boresight. </div></div>

Didn't change the meaning at all. So instead of me sending you a PM teaching you <span style="font-weight: bold">basic</span> scope mounting why don't you send me a PM with an apology for saying that editing for readability sake is "lowball shit"
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more tripwire, I was always under the assumption when you mounted a scope to a new gun, you zero the scope.
I've seen incidental hits on steel at long range, most of the time NOT. Once a bullet hits the ground, it's anybody's guess.
I shoot approximatly 8000rds a year, handgun, ar, and long range. Ok I'm limited, I've just never been around someone bouncing bullets into his own target, never the less someone else's. </div></div>

I've seen bullets skip, allot. Shooting 300yds when almost every other individual is shooting 100yds or less at a public range, (the idea of lanes is completely foreign) by the time I retrieved my targets they had been virtually destroyed by rocks and skipped bullets. The amount of undamaged or slightly mushroomed projectiles littering the average range demonstrates pretty well for me that glancing impact with objects does little damage to the projectile. I guess this is what one garners from being observant. Under the right circumstances its not stretch to imagine striking your target after hitting the ground, I would not expect it to be common or something one could do at will, it also may not occur within the feild of view of the scope.

OP gald you solved your mystery.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHOO HOOO sweet Alaskan asparagus tips how did I miss this!!! </div></div>

Thanks for making me hungry man.. I mean it is 2a here and 3/4 of a bottle of wine with 150 rounds left to load.

Now just one more thing I have to deal with, hunger.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Qualifying in what we called "Trainfire" many years ago, it was considered good form to kick up rocks, etc. into the silhouette targets. As long as the target went down, nobody cared if it was a rock or a ricochet bullet. And, I'm pretty sure that I have killed a few prairie dogs by hitting the ground in front of him/the target.

El Tripo, can you reconstruct the old, (ever more informative) sig line?
Thx, BB
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or, an In N Out Double/Double.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chirp...chirp....chirp.... </div></div>

Milo-2 figured you'd bitch out...
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Milo-2 figured you'd gentleman out... </div></div>

Sorry, made it more pleasurable reading for everybody.
I'll be back in the fray, just put in too many hours at work.

Might have to concede that you were right on the moa base change.
But I will do it on the forum if I'm wrong. Your chances of winning the Power Ball are greater than getting a pm apology.

Name calling is elementery, I kind of want to stay away from it.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Name calling is elementery, I kind of want to stay away from it. </div></div>

LOL this ^^ from the guy who sent me this PM
-----------------------------------------------

xky7iu.jpg

-----------------------------------------------

So now you're a hypocrite too!
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How did you do that?
I don't care how you can bounce bullets into a target, but your computer skills far exceed mine.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, if we are handing out gold stars for computer stupidity, I want recognition.

Again, anybody who has ever played around on a dark night has probably seen hot bullets skipping all over the place and sometimes they strike halfway downrange for whatever reason, and bounce into a target? What's so unusual about that? And, also not amazing, is that FMJ bullets, (particularly) tend to hold together on a ricochet.

I'm not one to worry about staying on topic, but what the hell are we talking about anyway? Measuring peckers? I think so? Please pass the popcorn.
It's just the Internet, don't take it so serious. BB
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screen captures are highly complicated maneuvers.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You reckon one could Google "screen capture" and learn how? I just bet one could if one were properly motivated.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nah its far to complicated for a walk thru, requires months of training and years of practice under the watchful eye of an experienced operator.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Check out those frequent flier miles! Dazzling! Scary! Wow! Can you turn my lights off and on at exactly 12:00 Pacific?
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Milo-2 when you have a canted base it slopes the scope downward which causes the shooter to raise the scope internals up. When you place the adjusted scope on a non canted base it will be level with the rifle and cause the barrel to aim low.
 
Re: Need Help ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any outcome is possible... all the time.
We've got a community organizer in the W.H., for God's sake...

;-]]

Look on the bright side, Original Poster, it'll never happen again!

Cheers
 
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