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Chiroprators?

desertrat1979

desertrat1979

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 20, 2006
30
22
44
Southern NV
I am not a fond user of doctors. Its hit or miss where I live. For the last couple years or so I have dealt with some pretty bad neck and shoulder pain. It became an issue when I was doing jujitsu and ground fighting, got my neck wrenched good. Since then I get knots, and spasms in my neck and upper shoulders, it can get bad enough to cause headaches and sometimes, in todays case, migranes. The only thing the doctors do is a volley of Px IBUs, Flexeril and Vicotin. I hate using Vicotin it makes me feel lazy, the IBUs are starting to upset my stomach, and Flexeril is only useful before bed.

A co-worker suggested a chiropractor. I was under the impression that a chiropractor was good for joint issues and this seems more muscular related. I have done a lot of stretching techniques, none seem to work. The muscles are just too tight. Has anyone been down this road here?
 
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yes, when I was younger I had basically the same thing happen, and ended up w/ the same headaches... went to a chiropractor for a while and it was great...

now here's the disclaimer... it takes a good chiro... when i originally went, the guy was very professional, took x-rays before he'd touch me, had a large clinic w/ massage therapists too... he'd have heat applied, massage done, and then he'd come back in and crack my back and neck... then I'd be sent to another area that had physical therapy type machines and I'd have excercises to do and some tables that massaged/worked certain areas...

couple of years ago I was having some back pain and thought I'd give it another try... my original guy was retired, so I tried another chiro in town.... he never took an x-ray... just went to tweeking and cracking on my back.... ended up hurting worse for weeks
 
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See thats some of the horror stories I hear. I hope things turned out better en the end for ya. Thanks.
 
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Good chiros are worth their weight in gold. But never let one touch you that is not professional in scope and nature. Xrays, consultation and maybe even requesting your medical records to review like from a crash or accident etc. Many times your regular dr may no a good one. Or a coworker.
 
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Try two or three if you get a chance.....preferably that went to a different school.....There are many different techniques that may be used and different schools teach different ones.

So find out what works and what helps and what does not and you will be rewarded.
 
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I've been to a few, both good and bad. Ask around and you'll find out who the bad ones are. The one I have now never took any x-rays but is very good takes time to find out your history etc. In fact when anyone in my family feels a cold/flue coming on we go see him. Some times that initial visit kills it. Used him for my kids ear infections instead of antibiotics, quick neck adjustment and the ear infection was gone in a day or two. And yes he would check the ears first. Best part of the deal, he lurks on this site.
 
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I've had back and neck problems since i was 16 and in a bad car wreck. Kills me to sit behind a scope for long periods of time. I tried out several chiros after mine retired and it took me a while to find one that suited me. There may be alot of good docs out there but you need to find one that adjusts the way you like it. Some are just outright neadrathals, others smooth. Check a few out and tell them what you are doing. It will keep them honest and doing thier best work on you to retain you as a client. Dont be afraid to try several in your area out. If one does xrays tell them you want to keep a copy. Then you can take them to other docs your trying. Afterall, your paying for the dang things. If they wont consent to that, go to a diffent doc. A lot of my problems stem from muscle issues, a chiropracter will help release the muscle and then adjust the bone structure to help keep those muscles in line and pain free. Good Luck.
 
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Valid points.
I have an excellent chiropractor that I've been periodically visiting for over 20 years (I'm 38 now).
One thing to point out is that alot of muscle tension is brought upon because those muscles are straining, or overcompensating for, misaligned bone structure.
Massage and/or physical therapy can alleviate the pain & discomfort of muscle tension, but if the crux of the problem is not addressed (subluxation) those muscles will soon again begin straining to 'fix' the misalignment.
A good chiropractor will address the muscles to relieve tension to a point where he can manipulate the bones to fix the subluxation. I think the hardest part for new patients to address is how to relax on the table. This is key to getting a proper adjustment and a good chiro will work toward relaxing the muscles surrounding the subluxation before attempting to manipulate those bones.
The relief one feels after an adjustment is worth the effort to find a reputable chiro and give that form of therapy an honest chance to work for you...

Good luck!
 
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I speak from significant experience about chiro's, I have been to 10 different chiro's. Here are the guidelines that I have developed that will allow anyone to know if the chiro is a cash grabber or if he/she is legitimate: 1) if at the end of your adjustments, they want to hook you up to an electronic muscle-stimulating machine, get the heck out of there. 2) if they cannot provide a timeframe for the course of treatment (i.e., "your treatment should be twice a week for two weeks for the problem to be corrected..."), and if this timeframe is more than 3 weeks, get the hell out of there.

Now, you can use this as a very reliable gauge to know if your chiro is good: if part of their assessment includes you pushing against their hands/arms at multiple different positions/angles with all appendages, then you can be 99.9% certain you've scored.

I cannot tell you guys how many times I have been to a chiro, get "assessed and adjusted" to be told that I would be hooked up on the electro-stimulation machine when I was finished. Everytime that happened (after the first chiro), I just told them that I didn't want my time/money wasted, and walked out.

Out of 10 different chiro's, I have been to 3 who have employed the techniques referenced above, fixed my back within 3 sessions, and sent me packing. My first chiro, this dude is legit; International Olympic Committee, chiro to a world champ boxer, etc...is the one who told me that the electric muscle deal is BS. It's a massage that lasts 15 minutes and happens to cost 150.00 and if your chiro wants you on it, get the hell out of there!

BTW- he fixed a lower back issue of mine that had a 22 year-old male, walking like a 90 year-old man, in one session (though he wanted to see me a second visit just for follow up). All that without one x-ray.
 
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I guess maybe I had a bad one. Went in, got measured, X-rayed, and he told me I had a leg length discrepancy but that it was likely a muscular imbalance. I was having pain if I was on the bike longer than two hours at a time and I was doing 3-4hr bike rides 4 days a week so I had rather consistent pain. His course of treatment was six weeks of twice a week. He hooked me up to a machine ..."Russian space technology" his words. Long story short I went from pain at 2 hrs to pain at 2.5 hrs into a ride. Interesting enough, I started squatting heavy with the correct form (hip crease below patella) and my leg length discrepancy went away in about 3 months.

I'm not sure if my story is an endorsement or an indictment. I don't regret going and having spent the money but I didn't find a magic fix.
 
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Yeah, gotta love that "Russian Space Technology."

I'm a D.O. Been practicing for about 20 years, was a flight surgeon, studied Anesthesiology, been doing family medicine since board certification in 1999, these days I mostly do urgent care. I studied as much OMT (Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy) as any other DO, about 500 hours documented, did some in practice for several years, and got my back thrown out by another student in my 1st year of meds school and it's never been the same.

I have put myself in the hands of several physical therapists over the decades, most recently to treat a neurogenic (nerve-caused) thoracic outlet syndrome from spurring in my neck (used to ride motorcycles, fell of a rappelling tower once in officer's basic) and if the surgeon I am seeing suggested outpatient day surgery to fix the problem I was having in January I would have let him cut on me in a heartbeat. As it turns out, the therapist I found specializes in "dry needling," a kind of "acupuncture" that is actually based upon sound scientific principles and just works.

Still having some issues with my upper back and neck and now that I've gotten the XR and MRI data to go by, am going to visit a chiropractor for some fine-tuning as I know there is some benefit to manipulations, I just don't trust that any of my DO colleagues will have the facility at diagnosis and treatment if they're not doing as much of it as the average chiro, which they don't, and can't. On the other hand, I've had several patients of my own over the decades who were manipulated for months or years by chiros only to have continuing pain that I found was from easily detected prostate cancer, bone cyst, infection and in one case a piece of shrapnel from 'nam. And no X-Rays were done. Mileage varies.

Interesting thing, in my med school class there were four DCs who were getting their medical degrees and I used to go to lunch with a couple of them day after day; the practice management is what's suspect, when you hear about how many of the DCs diagnose based on insurance reimbursement. "X" symptoms equal "Z" number of treatments, and they have that info on you before they ever get into your exam room 'cause their manager has looked into the reimbursement schedule. Business.

It's what I call transactional versus relational medicine. Buying and selling product versus developing trust and a relationship over time with our patients. Fact is, most people only want what they want when they want it and some docs (DCs, MDs, DOs) get pretty good at just giving the rubes what they want like old time sideshow barkers. Relationships take time.

I have friends whose opinions and judgment I trust without question; several of those have referred me to chiropractors. And I've got good insurance.

Thanks for the tips.
 
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Avery respected M.D. told my friend that his stroke was caused by chiropractor manipulation. He went often for back pain. We worked industrial construction. Anyhow ,the M.D. says the neck twist causes tiny clots in the neck which go to your head on occasion. The M.D. was not a GP, but a University prof. specialist.
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1236</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Avery respected M.D. told my friend that his stroke was caused by chiropractor manipulation. He went often for back pain. We worked industrial construction. Anyhow ,the M.D. says the neck twist causes tiny clots in the neck which go to your head on occasion. The M.D. was not a GP, but a University prof. specialist.</div></div>

Basilar Vertebral Artery tears/dissection, uncommon, but common enough that it comes up in the literature about once a year. A review of cases came out from NIH about six months ago. Just means that, like many other "procedures" done routinely on people of all sizes, shapes and with unknown underlying structural issues, one needs to select patients and their treatments carefully.

It's why I've taken so long deciding to see a chiropractor. I've seen good and bad and I'm desperate, at a point I'll take some risks for some relief.

I'm sure as hell not going to let anyone torque my neck knowing what's in there.
 
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When I moved to CA I went Chiro shopping. The first one I went to was this hippie chick and she said "I feel some bad energy coming from your back". Proceeded to walk right out.

I finally found a great one that practiced a mix of Gonsted (sp?)/modern technique that work wonders. The adjustments were right on. I've always had neck issues after playing ball in college as nose.

When I moved to MN, had the same issue finding a good one. Lucky me, after a few places, I found one that was very similar to the chiro in CA.

I would stay clear of the larger clinics, find one that take the time to talk to you, understand where your pain is, loosen you up, massage, heat packs, stim, and then when they are evaluating you can feel the relief.

The larger clinics make their money by getting you in and out. The good ones that I have experienced spend at least 30-40 minutes working on you, not shuttling between multiple patients.
 
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I see it as a preventative maintenance to maximize performance. We get out actions trued so they are properly aligned why not follow that for out body?

I have used many chiro over the years and have had mixed results. At first I balked at the concepts of stuff like ear infections, headaches etc were related to the infamous "alignment" issue but as I continue my medical training I am putting more clinical belief in it. At the same time I think using X rays or not a DC can find almost any problem he wants to find on you, out of alignment ribs, subluctions, etc. I have also worked in the work comp and insurance business for several years and I can tell you that chiro are about 80% of the red flags for clinic inspections, overbilling, billing for procedures not completed etc.

As others have mentioned some are gold and some are there to milk you or your insurance company as a cash cow with no end in sight.
 
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I can't even count the number of patients I have now that I don't even have a chance to really help, other than minor relief due to surgical procedures that didn't work. There are good and bad in every profession.

w/ respect to insurance coverage/ benefits......every patient wants to know 4 things when getting any treatment or service for that matter
what's wrong
how long will it take to fix
can I help them
and how much it will cost

getting the financial portion squared up front before sticking some one with a bill is appreciated I've found. I run a business as a good business owner should, the money always takes care of itself when the doctor will put patients interests ahead of their own.

Strokes.........yeah.... w/ proper diagnostic screening not going to happen from an adjustment, and as others have said there are over 200 different adjusting techniques. Even a person at "risk" can get adjusted w/o issue.

At school, our Dallas Clinic has seen a million plus patient visits, done by students no less, and guess what no strokes. You'd think 1 in a million would happen mathematically.

Do a quick search on how many people die of surgical complications, I did and found 5 people died in Florida in one year (2004) getting cosmetic surgery. I'm not here to start a "holy war" w/ MD's or their profession but misconceptions about my profession misleading and grossly exaggerated. I have a private practice and have excellent relationships w/ several neuro's, otho's and gp's ect.

I know there are some shady fuck sticks out practicing, hell my first job was for one, yeah that didn't last long.

My family has been practicing since the mid 20's, its not something I did because "I didn't have the grades to be a real doctor". I am confident in the results chiropractic provides and the safety of all my patients.

KT
 
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After giving up on family doctor and ortho I went the chiro route due to a neck problem and they helped me a lot with neck pain from worn cartilage
 
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Well, here is an update. I made an appointment with my doctor, and after decribing the type of pain, and my prior history, he ordered up some x-rays and is giving me a referral to get an MRI. He is concerned that I may have injured a cervical disc. The pain usually centers just to the right of my spine, exactly where the shoulder meets my neck. But the pain is too deep (for lack of a better word) to get at just by massaging it.

Turns out, just over 3 years ago, I was doing some ground fighting with a co-worker. He trapped my chin into my chest, and thats when I felt something go. I was fine the rest of the day, but the next day I woke up, stretched, rolled my head to loosen up and every muscle from one shoulder to the other cramped up. Dropped me right there. Ever since, I have had these issues, just never put 2 and 2 together. Its been seldomly off and on, but lately its been more on. Couldnt move my head last Monday, which promped the call to the doc. He mentioned that if it is an injured disk, I may have to get that vertebrae fused. I know NOTHING about that, and I was wondering if anyone here have had to get that done? Alternative? Someone said that its a livable ( if it doesnt get worse), another said a chiropractor can releive the tension on the injured disk. A co-worker said just get a pain managment doctor/specialist (never heard of those).

But I guess I will just wait and see what the MRI says first.
 
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One more experience with a Chiro to share and this was a positive one... I went in with knee pain during one of my scheduled back sessions. I told him about it and he looked at both of my knees and said "the right one is mis-aligned" and he didn't mention Russian Space technology this time. He took a mallet and gave it a couple of whacks. When I got up off of the table the knee pain was gone! I mean gone. I was pretty amazed by that. I walked out of there with a knee that felt brand new and nice and loose. He said that sometimes muscle imbalances can tighten and pull joints out of alignment and this causes small impingements that show up as pain.

Anyway, something to think about the next time you wake up with a tweak in a joint. Chiros don't just fix back pain.
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, here is an update. I made an appointment with my doctor, and after decribing the type of pain, and my prior history, he ordered up some x-rays and is giving me a referral to get an MRI. He is concerned that I may have injured a cervical disc. The pain usually centers just to the right of my spine, exactly where the shoulder meets my neck. But the pain is too deep (for lack of a better word) to get at just by massaging it.

Turns out, just over 3 years ago, I was doing some ground fighting with a co-worker. He trapped my chin into my chest, and thats when I felt something go. I was fine the rest of the day, but the next day I woke up, stretched, rolled my head to loosen up and every muscle from one shoulder to the other cramped up. Dropped me right there. Ever since, I have had these issues, just never put 2 and 2 together. Its been seldomly off and on, but lately its been more on. Couldnt move my head last Monday, which promped the call to the doc. He mentioned that if it is an injured disk, I may have to get that vertebrae fused. I know NOTHING about that, and I was wondering if anyone here have had to get that done? Alternative? Someone said that its a livable ( if it doesnt get worse), another said a chiropractor can releive the tension on the injured disk. A co-worker said just get a pain managment doctor/specialist (never heard of those).

But I guess I will just wait and see what the MRI says first.</div></div>

This sounds about like what I have wrong with my neck, my neck is always out of place and causes tension headaches so bad I can't hardly stand it. My neck will get swollen and so tender I can't touch it and the chiropractor can put it in place but it is out of place again within a day. I am going to talk to the doctor next month when I have a check up to see what he says. Curious to see what you find out because it sounds very similar.
 
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I have seen chiropractors for years. It's important to find a good one. Personally, I would avoid pain doctors, because they either push transient steroid injections or narcotics. My chiropractor uses acupuncture also, which has been beneficial for chronic pain issues for me.
 
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I would consider the pain mgmt Dr as the LAST resort. They are there as said above to dispense pain meds that you end up hooked on.
 
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My doctor mentioned muscle relaxers on the last visit, I have been on them before but I hate how tired they make me feel. They aren't addictive but they do help my neck and headaches considerably.
 
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I have been contemplating going to a chiropractor recently. I have been experiencing neck pain for about a year now. I think it stems from poor sleeping habits, i love to sleep on my stomach. On good days I can make it most of the day before it starts to hurt and I cant resist popping my neck, on bad days it hurts when I wake up, my head starts to hurt at about 11 or 12, and I snap it all day. I can move my head around and hear sounds, kind of like grinding cartilage. I just havent looked around, or talked to people to find a good one yet. I dont want to go indefinitely, I think my "condition" isnt too severe and should be cured pretty easily, then again Im no doctor...
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bradu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My doctor mentioned muscle relaxers on the last visit, I have been on them before but I hate how tired they make me feel. They aren't addictive but they do help my neck and headaches considerably. </div></div>

I am in the same boat. I neglected to mention a refill on my IBUs and Vicotins. He refilled my Flexerils, but I had not thought the request through. You do have to be careful with narcotic based pain killers. I did a lot of research, and in my profession a lot of my "clients" are where they are at from addictions to pain pills. So yeah, I use caution with them. I figure the muscle relaxers and pain killers can be used before bed, get through the day on IBUs until I get the MRI done.
 
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My work gives me neck and upper back pain and positional repetiton. The first few bouts with limited range of motion were treated with muscle relaxers and it worked but always came back. Tried the chiropractor and it also made things feel better but was short term.....literally a few hours after adjustment I had the same problem. I ended up seeing a massage therapist and now go 2x a month. Never an issue with neck or back pain for the last several years. Mine was muscular and not skeletal which will make a difference in what helps you long term.
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: knockemdown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Valid points.
I have an excellent chiropractor that I've been periodically visiting for over 20 years (I'm 38 now).
One thing to point out is that alot of muscle tension is brought upon because those muscles are straining, or overcompensating for, misaligned bone structure.
Massage and/or physical therapy can alleviate the pain & discomfort of muscle tension, but if the crux of the problem is not addressed (subluxation) those muscles will soon again begin straining to 'fix' the misalignment.
A good chiropractor will address the muscles to relieve tension to a point where he can manipulate the bones to fix the subluxation. I think the hardest part for new patients to address is how to relax on the table. This is key to getting a proper adjustment and a good chiro will work toward relaxing the muscles surrounding the subluxation before attempting to manipulate those bones.
The relief one feels after an adjustment is worth the effort to find a reputable chiro and give that form of therapy an honest chance to work for you...

Good luck! </div></div>

^this is sage advice and info
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch engage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: knockemdown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Valid points.
I have an excellent chiropractor that I've been periodically visiting for over 20 years (I'm 38 now).
One thing to point out is that alot of muscle tension is brought upon because those muscles are straining, or overcompensating for, misaligned bone structure.
Massage and/or physical therapy can alleviate the pain & discomfort of muscle tension, but if the crux of the problem is not addressed (subluxation) those muscles will soon again begin straining to 'fix' the misalignment.
A good chiropractor will address the muscles to relieve tension to a point where he can manipulate the bones to fix the subluxation. I think the hardest part for new patients to address is how to relax on the table. This is key to getting a proper adjustment and a good chiro will work toward relaxing the muscles surrounding the subluxation before attempting to manipulate those bones.
The relief one feels after an adjustment is worth the effort to find a reputable chiro and give that form of therapy an honest chance to work for you...

Good luck! </div></div>

^this is sage advice and info </div></div>

Exactly right! I herniated a disc in football, which prompted me to go to a chiro. He got me back into shape pretty damn quick. Two weeks ago I pinched my sciatic nerve picking up my fourwheeler to put a skid plate on. Holy shit did it hurt! He fixed the pain instantly, but took two weeks to get the nerve fully unpinched. Chiro's can do an a great deal of good. Like said before, a good one is like finding gold!
 
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Last year or early this year I hurt my back, I was picking up a 90 lb dumbell at the gym that had rolled under the racks. It put me down for a couple of days, but after it stopped hurting it still didn't feel 'right'. A couple months ago I was lying back on a horizontal squat machine, not particularly heavy, and had something crunch. That knocked me down worse than the first one, I was on my back for several days.

I asked around and found to a chiro here, on the xrays the problem was very obvious. He saw me 3x a week for 3 weeks, now I'm at once a month, and the back is better than it has been for a long time. He spent a lot of time talking about muscles and how they affect the skeletal system, and has a massage therapist on site. The massage therapist also helped with my chronic shoulder pain. Definitely worth checking into.
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guns4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good chiros are worth their weight in gold. But never let one touch you that is not professional in scope and nature. Xrays, consultation and maybe even requesting your medical records to review like from a crash or accident etc. Many times your regular dr may no a good one. Or a coworker. </div></div>

YMMV, but it's my sincere opinion you need to be a bit more careful than even that......

This recent story relates to events with my 17 year old son. Anyone close to my AO would recognize the name of the chiro we used as it's a household name around here. Large clinic, many satellite offices, a bunch of docs working for them. In the satellite office we used there hangs testimonial letters by the dozens from satisfied patients lauding their praises upon the female doc that worked there. Popular, and well known.

I started going to her because I fell on some ice a couple months before and she diagnosed me with a bone spur that had compromised my sciatica nerve...causing severe pain in my foot and leg. Several weeks and many hundreds of dollars later I could walk and function with minimal discomfort. Okay, chiros can help you.

My son, a football player in high school, started complaining about some discomfort in his lower back. We took him to the family doctor and he suggested taking him to a chiro. Well, I knew one so we had my chiro check out the boy. Xrays were taken and she diagnosed him with having busted his tail bone at some point in his life, it had grown back together, and a bone spur had formed pressing on a nerve.

Um, what? he hadn't ever complained about having hurt his tail bone.......

Well, we started treatments with him and it just so happened this clinic gave discounts to the local high school student athletes so it was possible to take the boy there a LOT. The treatments seemed to help him at the beginning, which was early spring and the off season for football. But as we progressed through summer and into fall he started saying it wasn't helping him much and things were actually starting to feel worse than they did when he first started going.

About that time pre season football work outs started and of course he dove into that. We spent a lot of time at night with ice packs per the chiro's advice. The night after his third football game of the season he woke us up in the middle of the night literally crying out in pain. He couldn't lay down, he couldn't sit up, he couldn't walk, he couldn't do anything without excruciating pain in his lower back.

We got him settled back down and made it through the rest of the night, and then took him to the family doctor first thing the next morning. The family doctor gave him some pain meds and referred us to an immediate visit with an orthopedic surgeon.

With a full array of xrays and an MRI, the orthopedic surgeon couldn't find a previously busted tail bone or a bone spur....but he did find a massive herniated disc between his last Lumbar and first Sacral. We were told this was a bad deal and if it wasn't dealt with right away he was risking permanent damage. $58,000 worth of microscope surgery, two months of school tutoring at home, and six months of total recovery time later, he's apparently fine now.

BUT....he's scared of continuing on with football now, and we're not sure if this will keep him out of the Corps or not.

We're not the type to start slinging law suits, but we paid off the chiro bill and won't be ever going back. It's our belief the boy had the beginnings of a damaged disc way back at the beginning which was misdiagnosed as something else. Between the chiro treatments and the football practice/games it developed into a massive herniated disc. Part our fault I'd suppose, and part the fault of the chiro for not finding and treating (or not) the right problem....so I guess we'll just let it ride.

I could tell he was off a little during that last game, but how he played in the pain he was in, without showing it until he just couldn't take it anymore, I'll never know.

All I can say is that he's one tough sumbitch..........
 
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Okay, my back is trashed from service. In fact, I'm scheduled for a shot in my back (NOT looking foward to that!) here soon, and another MRI. I have nerve damage, numbness and pain, down my right leg. It can get serious.

With your neck and the area just below it, it can be more serious because in this area the spinal cord is actually INSIDE the vertebrae. So in this instance, some may not touch you. A chiropracter won't touch my back because of the nerve damage and mine is in the lower back where the concern of serious permanent damage isn't much of an issue, just more pain.

If you have a bad disc or some problem there and they adjust that, you can become paralyzed, in pain, a number of things. I'd really see the appropriate doctor and get it checked out and maybe x-rayed or and MRI to find out what is actually wrong before looking to a chiro. The chiro may be a great choice, a lot of folks I've talked to swear by it including my wife, but for some, me included, it can do more harm than good.

It was the MRI's, the nerve conduction test, my history and the exam and rapport between me and my back doctor that brought us to this conclusion. She happened to know the chiro well enough also to know that he would deny me as a patient. She said good ones will also understand their limitations and the limitations of the physical problem such that they won't work on you if it will hurt you worse.

Just my .02.
 
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A buddy of mine and body builder needed "adjustments" every week. He bought the sleep by number bed and quickly stopped needing those.
My back was messed up from years of running with combat boots and other stupid stuff. I also bought the sleep by number bed and my back is way way way better. I have never been to a chiropractor in my 45 years and don't forsee any visit.
hope this helps.
 
 
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i have been to a few chiros. i think about half just pop your back and take your money. i have founda few that can manipulate my 240lbs and do some good.
last week i was climbing a rock wall on vacation, afterwards my back sas nonstop spasms. lived with that for a few days swollowing ibuprofin. went to a chiro and he poped the rib that i displaced back into my spine. one day later everything in A ok.
 
Re: Chiroprators?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guns4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good chiros are worth their weight in gold. But never let one touch you that is not professional in scope and nature. Xrays, consultation and maybe even requesting your medical records to review like from a crash or accident etc. Many times your regular dr may no a good one. Or a coworker. </div></div>

YMMV, but it's my sincere opinion you need to be a bit more careful than even that......

This recent story relates to events with my 17 year old son. Anyone close to my AO would recognize the name of the chiro we used as it's a household name around here. Large clinic, many satellite offices, a bunch of docs working for them. In the satellite office we used there hangs testimonial letters by the dozens from satisfied patients lauding their praises upon the female doc that worked there. Popular, and well known.

I started going to her because I fell on some ice a couple months before and she diagnosed me with a bone spur that had compromised my sciatica nerve...causing severe pain in my foot and leg. Several weeks and many hundreds of dollars later I could walk and function with minimal discomfort. Okay, chiros can help you.

My son, a football player in high school, started complaining about some discomfort in his lower back. We took him to the family doctor and he suggested taking him to a chiro. Well, I knew one so we had my chiro check out the boy. Xrays were taken and she diagnosed him with having busted his tail bone at some point in his life, it had grown back together, and a bone spur had formed pressing on a nerve.

Um, what? he hadn't ever complained about having hurt his tail bone.......

About that time pre season football work outs started and of course he dove into that. We spent a lot of time at night with ice packs per the chiro's advice. The night after his third football game of the season he woke us up in the middle of the night literally crying out in pain. He couldn't lay down, he couldn't sit up, he couldn't walk, he couldn't do anything without excruciating pain in his lower back.

We got him settled back down and made it through the rest of the night, and then took him to the family doctor first thing the next morning. The family doctor gave him some pain meds and referred us to an immediate visit with an orthopedic surgeon.

With a full array of xrays and an MRI, the orthopedic surgeon couldn't find a previously busted tail bone or a bone spur....but he did find a massive herniated disc between his last Lumbar and first Sacral. We were told this was a bad deal and if it wasn't dealt with right away he was risking permanent damage. $58,000 worth of microscope surgery, two months of school tutoring at home, and six months of total recovery time later, he's apparently fine now.

We're not the type to start slinging law suits, but we paid off the chiro bill and won't be ever going back. It's our belief the boy had the beginnings of a damaged disc way back at the beginning which was misdiagnosed as something else. Between the chiro treatments and the football practice/games it developed into a massive herniated disc. Part our fault I'd suppose, and part the fault of the chiro for not finding and treating (or not) the right problem....so I guess we'll just let it ride.

All I can say is that he's one tough sumbitch.......... </div></div>


I had neck issues after also after a car wreck in the 90's; went to a chiro. and at one point I too stopped going because I felt he did something that made my neck alot worse, about 5 months later had an MRI from another doc that showed the neck herniation. That's not to slam all chiropractors, but its not uncommon either.
I have a huge believer in a good physical therapist. Also, just because you think your issue is muscle, doesn't mean in can't be from a herniated disc. Its not a reason to rush into surgery (seriously avoid unless their is pending permanent nerve damage or you pain cannot be controlled at all). I avoided surgery on my neck with about 4 years of PT, ultrasound/heat, massage,some facet injections, and even some Botox into some problematic muscle spasms. And BTW a comment on pain management - through those 4 years I was under the care of pain management doc who pretty much ran the show after the chiro, and did not prescribe a single narcotic to me for that neck injury. There are plenty of pain doctors that will do ever thing to avoid pain medications if you feel strongly about it. And avoid letting a surgeon tell you you need surgery because you are taking one vicodin at night after work - you could end up on much stronger stuff after a failed surgery.
 
Re: Chiroprators?

I was taking one Vicodin in the AM when I woke up, and one at night with a muscle relaxer. Far from abuse of pain meds that have seen. Some days I never needed it or forgot to take it, some days it was a pill or two more. Its gotten to the point where some days are bad, and some are worse, few are good. I never use to be like this. Over the last 3 years I would have months, sometimes a year between issues. Now, since around February, its constant. I hope the doc has some good news, but since my MRI lst week, he wants me to come in for more referrals. Thats never a good sign.

One of my co-workers said he has been dealing with a pain management doctor (car accident) and it has been good going, until he got hurt on the job a few weeks ago. Sounds like the same injury I am suspected of having. They used very little narcotic use, more on physical therapy and direct site injections. It sucks that I got to wait until Thursday to see my doctor.
 
Re: Chiroprators?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was taking one Vicodin in the AM when I woke up, and one at night with a muscle relaxer. Far from abuse of pain meds that have seen. Some days I never needed it or forgot to take it, some days it was a pill or two more. Its gotten to the point where some days are bad, and some are worse, few are good. I never use to be like this. Over the last 3 years I would have months, sometimes a year between issues. Now, since around February, its constant. I hope the doc has some good news, but since my MRI lst week, he wants me to come in for more referrals. Thats never a good sign.

One of my co-workers said he has been dealing with a pain management doctor (car accident) and it has been good going, until he got hurt on the job a few weeks ago. Sounds like the same injury I am suspected of having. They used very little narcotic use, more on physical therapy and direct site injections. It sucks that I got to wait until Thursday to see my doctor. </div></div>

Well dude, sounds like we're in the same boat now. I can't say as I'm happy to see you. Mine went constant in January. Been dealing with it since 04 or so. But here is an update on me:

I have my 3rd MRI in a couple of weeks for my back. I have a new pain doctor too, better than the VA care I got, and he can do injections directly in the back WHEN I need them. VA takes 3 months!!! He will give me pretty much all the pain meds I need, and only take 'em when needed; like you I need more some days and less others. Note you may become dependent upon the drugs, but that isn't the same thing as addicted. You are addicted when they become your life.

The longer lasting pain meds work a lot better than Vicodin. It only lasts four hours. The others work around the clock. You can get them in low doses that will probably work better than Vicodin but with less wooziness. MS Contin is a good one.

If you will be on them for a long time, note that you get used to the effects and it is a lot like not being on anything at all, just no pain. You can do everything any other person can with little to no cognitive deficit. Including shooting and driving and anything else you do.

When you go see your doctor, ask him for a "medpak", methylprednisolone 4mg. Take it EXACTLY as directed, it can only really be dangerous if you take say the first dose and neglect the rest --it can shut down your (adrenal?) glands. It is a steroid with some nasty side effects (that most can deal with and they go away) that has the uncanny ability to make you feel better almost instantly. DO NOT REINJURE YOURSELF AFTER THE STEROID KICKS IN!!! I did that and ended up WAAAAY worse and admitted to a VA hospital.

Now like I said, chiro won't touch my back. Only my back doc and the pain doc will now. These back injections are steroids, but not systemic as the pred. is. The local shot to the back is supposed to be beneficial and many swear by it. 3 I think is the most you can get per year, but they like to keep it down to 1 or 2. Steroids over time just aren't good period.

Speaking of steroids. If any of you with serious injury are on opioid medications (Vicodin, Morphine, Oxycodone, etc.,) and are taking them over 3 months, then you should look into getting your T levels checked too. You may have to start testosterone injections due to the pain meds.

Back pain, when serious, is a very debilitating and painful life. I seriously hope you get good help and the referrals are good one. But make sure you ask for that medpak, okay? He can say yay or nay, but mention it and if he thinks it will work he'll give it to you. I'm on my second this year. Not good, but no choice.

Finally I'll give you this. If you get a little better to the point you can move around a bit and do some exercise, then start going to the pool. Treading water and swimming is VERY good for the back as long as you stop before the nerve pain starts.

Oh, drink lots of water. Sure you've heard that before, but seriously, it does help with it all.
 
Re: Chiroprators?

Well I got the prognosis yesterday. Cervical Stenosis of the C5 and C6 (or it could be the 4 and 5, cant remember). Its compression of the spinal cord. The worst of the symptoms is paralisys, with a lot of leg related issues. Fortunately I have yet to experience anything like that. For the last 3 yrs its been in my neck and shoulder muscles. After doing a bit of research, there is little in the way of treatment other than a fusion, and the problem is degenerative.

For now, the doc gave me a 6 month px of my meds, and told me to put some consideration into doing a consult with his surgeon. He hand picked this guy to do a similar surgery on his wife and had good success.

This really sux because I just took a transfer/promotion and I am now a drill instructor. While it is not mandatory, I would like to participate in PT, but now I got to be extra careful and not over do it.

Oh, and another reason to add to the "why I dont like pain killers" list. They make you really constipated. Holy fuck, I cant say I have ever had an experience like this, and dont wish it on anyone.
 
Re: Chiroprators?

I know I am a little late jumping in here, but I have been an orthopedic physical therapist for 34 years. As has been mentioned above there are good and not so good providers of care regardless of specialization, my own included. Whether PT, DC, MD, or DO, there are recognized and appropriate protocols for determining exactly what the problems is, and then a variety of treatment choice. Most of my patients are referred by orthopedic surgeons and neurologists, but they all respect the fact that I may find something they missed, and conversely when I am concerned that I think they have something that needs further diagnostic workup, I return the patient to the referring physician. A good, qualified manual physical therapist also performs manipulation of joints and the spine. I have Chiropractors who refer patients to me, and I have referred some of my patients to a DC that I know very well, when I thought that was the most appropriate treatment. Bottom line, if you are not sure if you have been given the correct diagnosis, or are not improving, get examined by someone else, preferably from a different type of medical practice.
 
Re: Chiroprators?

I am an MD and see a lot of people in this patient population.

My view on Chiropractic is akin to my view on Acupuncture. There is mixed data on whether it works or not, but other than its cost there is relatively low risk to trying it. I don't recommend it (or acupuncture) to my patients, but I don't discourage it either. If they wish to try it, I will support that; if it works, great, and if not, I can continue workup and treatment under my own algorithm (which usually includes PT or PM&R evaluation, possible epidural steroid injections, etc before discussing surgery).

FWIW I have treated one or two patients with adjustment-induced vertebral artery dissections, one of which caused a pretty serious posterior fossa stroke. The risk of this is low but I do mention the risk to my patients if they are planning to see a chiropractor for a neck problem.
 
Re: Chiroprators?

I now work as a D.C., and could work in any field I choose. I have suffered three near fatal accidents, two on bicycles and once when walking. Spent over 35 days in hospitals from the injuries including breaking my first lumbar into 53 pieces during a cycling mishap.

After all that, and more, I became a long distance trail runner and occasional triathlete. Chiropractic can work, and sometimes it does not. Personally I would recommend trying various types of treatment prior to surgery.

I have one patient who underwent 9 neck surgeries because of neck pain. There was no improvement. Then, another chiropractor worked on her, and she improved significantly. He retired, and the woman then came to me. I used the NUCCA chiropractic system to treat her. Within 3 adjustments she was pain free, and within 6 she was playing tennis. This is one of my best cases, however.

Most likely the individual who started this thread could recover using chiropractic. As in many fields, some practitioners do a great job, some do not.

http://marinnucca.com/5.html

-Steve
 
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